Udd Leaders End Protest

[Old Man River]

If the protests are to resume the best thing that could happen to Thailand is for the Red Shirts to change their strategy.

Quite simple really: all they have to do is totally disown Thaksin and do their own thing in the interest of the people.

Internationally Thaksin has done little to convince those outside the country that he cares a jot for the Thai people.

This man has done much harm to the reds cause and they have lost all of their credibility, with viloence invoked

by this power mad maniac who is definitley not the smartest kid on the block.

The Reds have some decent people who could easily sit down, talk and bide their time without resorting to Thaksin's "lets have a revolution" crap.

Governments don't last forever and when the time is right if the people want them, the reds will be back in power.

The quicker they realise Thaksin is taking them for a ride and cares only for himself the better for the country and for them.

Charles Manson/Shinawatra Thakisin... came out the same mould?..........I truly hope they see the error of their ways and wask their hands of the man

The Reds are Thaksin and Thaksin is the Reds. He founded them, he financed them, he is the owner.

Check out Shawn Crispin's article on www.atimes.com. In it, he talks about Jakropob Penkair's role (the mastermind behind the Reds). You will note, that Penkair is the only one of the Big 5 that didn't turn himself into the police. Crispin states that Thaksin and Penkair have been funneling small arms through Cambodia and into Northern Thailand with the help of former members of the Communist Party of Thailand.

It is a very interesting read. Before you toss it off as fiction, check out Crispin's background and read some of his other articles and then decide.

[nitecm]

I don't believe what he says for a minute, but he's scored a victory here, even in retreat.

It's politics, and Thaksin plays the game better than anyone.

Obviously, which is why is a convicted fugitive from justice, and he and his entire family are on the run, and his money and his cause are lost.

Yes, he plays a mean game of politics...

It took a military coup to get rid of him, such was his success at the political game.

Removed by a coup and then hounded through military appointed courts because they simply couldn't get close to him at the ballot box.

So yes, he does play a mean game of politics.

And again your usual lie! The courts were not appointed by the military!

A criminal was killed in the court by a business woman because her son was killed by him

Why ?

[LazyYogi]

I watched the CNN interview again. Thaksin comes off as a chicken hawk. He was calling for revolution, saying he was ready to come back, but now that his Reds were put down he's suddenly getting cold feet and evades the topic of his imminent return.

"They just come with bare hands. They want to ask for democracy peacefully."

Anyone with eyes can see this is a lie.

I think it's safe to say Thaksin lost all credibility in the eyes of many in that interview.

[Oberkommando]

The middle classes won't be growing in no recession, certainly not when all Thailand's key industries are shrinking, indeed, two are in deep trouble; tourism and automotive.

Recession is temporary, we've been through this in 1997-1998 when people lost their city jobs and went back upcountry. The shift from villagers to towns is an irreversible trend, but, most importantly, people freeing themselves from the yoke of their feudal lords, finding independent life in the towns, and demanding equal treatment in all respects, just as any other shopping mall goer, is what will slowly but steadily eat away at his support base.

So we agree the middle classes are not growing then? Great.

What do you think will happen in a sufficiency economy model such as we are seeing implemented now?

There will be certainly no growth of the middle class with the Democrat implemented localist economic policy.

They will drive people to Thaksin and his economic policies, just as they did in their last term at the helm, and the reason the TRT won in a landslide in 2001.

So history is doomed to repeat itself.

[TAWP]

Yes, but I also understand images of hijacked buses burning and rowdy mobs attacking government officials' vehicles with bricks and pipes and how these images tend to discredit certain former PMs who then claim in interviews that the military provoked violence against "unarmed peaceful protesters".

Indeed, but then they also see pictures of soldiers firing live ammo from assault weapons and the Thai Government trying to call it "crowd control".

Then a former-PM who was ousted in a military coup calling for a return to democracy.

2+2

It's a no-brainer for an educated Westerner.

A lie since blanks was used. (And anyone that saw the clip that knew anything about weapon would notice that none of the reds fell after the massive wolley of shots was launched.)

A no-brainer you say. I agree.

[Scott]

The attitude of the elite toward the rural and the poor is appalling. There are a lot of them. It would be best if they don't slap the face of those that tend their gardens, cook their food and take their children to school.

[Oberkommando]

Yes, but I also understand images of hijacked buses burning and rowdy mobs attacking government officials' vehicles with bricks and pipes and how these images tend to discredit certain former PMs who then claim in interviews that the military provoked violence against "unarmed peaceful protesters".

Indeed, but then they also see pictures of soldiers firing live ammo from assault weapons and the Thai Government trying to call it "crowd control".

Then a former-PM who was ousted in a military coup calling for a return to democracy.

2+2

It's a no-brainer for an educated Westerner.

A lie since blanks was used. (And anyone that saw the clip that knew anything about weapon would notice that none of the reds fell after the massive wolley of shots was launched.)

A no-brainer you say. I agree.

On the BBC and CNN among others the reporters were saying live ammunition was being used therefore the foreign public will believe them.

There were also pictures of live ammunition being loaded into magazines and heavy weapons being brandished with belts of live ammunition attached and live barrels.

BTW - M16s can't fire blanks continuously without a BFA attached to the muzzle.

Thankfully I do know a little bit about assault rifle weaponry, unlike you.

[debcmai]

It's quite disgusting the contempt for the rural poor shown on Thai Visa sometimes.

And those "miserable little villages" are the foundation on which modern Thailand is built, and so it seems will be what causes it to fall.

Thank YOU! I so agree with you. They are the salt of the earth, many very hardworking. They get by on very little, indeed. No perks northeast of Bangkok. I also find the remarks here bordering on racism/facism. Seems they will fit in fine here....

[Cayenne]

On the BBC and CNN among others the reporters were saying live ammunition was being used therefore the foreign public will believe them.

There were also pictures of live ammunition being loaded into magazines and heavy weapons being brandished with belts of live ammunition attached and live barrels.

BTW - M16s can't fire blanks continuously without a BFA attached to the muzzle.

Thankfully I do know a little bit about assault rifle weaponry, unlike you.

I think this has already been covered in the press- that live ammo was used to fire vertically into the air while blanks were used for horizontal firing. Had live ammo really been used in the clashes, where are all the bodies given that hundreds of the foreign press were there too covering every minute?

Oh wait I know- it's a grand conspiracy- the army used that flashy thing from Men In Black to make the reporters forget everything they saw and the bodies were then desposed in a hidden location.

[Ricardo]

Yes, but I also understand images of hijacked buses burning and rowdy mobs attacking government officials' vehicles with bricks and pipes and how these images tend to discredit certain former PMs who then claim in interviews that the military provoked violence against "unarmed peaceful protesters".

Indeed, but then they also see pictures of soldiers firing live ammo from assault weapons and the Thai Government trying to call it "crowd control".

Then a former-PM who was ousted in a military coup calling for a return to democracy.

Why didn't all those rounds of "live ammo" produce any visible casualties, could it possibly be, that the soldiers were using paper bullets as claimed ? The only two deaths reported thus far were as a result of Red-Shirt terrorists' actions.

And the former-PM, now calling "for a return to democracy", any relation to the PM who said that democracy was not his aim, when he was actually in power ? Thought so.

What he wants returning is 'his' money, not democracy or freedom.

[h90]

Yes, but I also understand images of hijacked buses burning and rowdy mobs attacking government officials' vehicles with bricks and pipes and how these images tend to discredit certain former PMs who then claim in interviews that the military provoked violence against "unarmed peaceful protesters".

Indeed, but then they also see pictures of soldiers firing live ammo from assault weapons and the Thai Government trying to call it "crowd control".

Then a former-PM who was ousted in a military coup calling for a return to democracy.

Why didn't all those rounds of "live ammo" produce any visible casualties, could it possibly be, that the soldiers were using paper bullets as claimed ? The only two deaths reported thus far were as a result of Red-Shirt terrorists' actions.

And the former-PM, now calling "for a return to democracy", any relation to the PM who said that democracy was not his aim, when he was actually in power ? Thought so.

What he wants returning is 'his' money, not democracy or freedom.

See the pictures of the bullets and guns here: http://www.manager.co.th/Politics/ViewNews...D=9520000042089

(hope I don't get banned for that)

[britainmal]

Sonthi runs real show. The current PM is his representitive. The Bangkok Post is a xenophobic elitest paper. They should make their paper yellow. The situation is Thailand can be compared to a dictatorship. Forget about the good old years of 2002-2005!

[cmsally]

If the protests are to resume the best thing that could happen to Thailand is for the Red Shirts to change their strategy.

Quite simple really: all they have to do is totally disown Thaksin and do their own thing in the interest of the people.

Internationally Thaksin has done little to convince those outside the country that he cares a jot for the Thai people.

This man has done much harm to the reds cause and they have lost all of their credibility, with viloence invoked

by this power mad maniac who is definitley not the smartest kid on the block.

The Reds have some decent people who could easily sit down, talk and bide their time without resorting to Thaksin's "lets have a revolution" crap.

Governments don't last forever and when the time is right if the people want them, the reds will be back in power.

The quicker they realise Thaksin is taking them for a ride and cares only for himself the better for the country and for them.

Charles Manson/Shinawatra Thakisin... came out the same mould?..........I truly hope they see the error of their ways and wask their hands of the man

The Reds are Thaksin and Thaksin is the Reds. He founded them, he financed them, he is the owner.

Check out Shawn Crispin's article on www.atimes.com. In it, he talks about Jakropob Penkair's role (the mastermind behind the Reds). You will note, that Penkair is the only one of the Big 5 that didn't turn himself into the police. Crispin states that Thaksin and Penkair have been funneling small arms through Cambodia and into Northern Thailand with the help of former members of the Communist Party of Thailand.

It is a very interesting read. Before you toss it off as fiction, check out Crispin's background and read some of his other articles and then decide.

Well seeing as Surayud's father was one of the leaders of the CPT (Communist Party of Thailand); it just goes to show how much of a big tangled mess this is. I'm sure if there is arms trading going on, the army will have their finger in the pie somewhere, they generally do.

[henryalleman]

Also - why do the Democrats not bung in a few WELL THOUGHT OUT populist policies? The tactic made Toxic many loyal friends.

because Abhisit is an Statesman and not some EGO maniac. And if you did follow politics you should know that he made some reform plans about education. And this is exactly what the country need, better education so future generations can have better jobs who get paid better.

The task a head of him is huge and the road is long and populist handouts like the so called free loans Thaksin gave did put the rural population in deeper sh"""t than they ever been. The debt rate in rural Thailand is 5 times higher than before Thaksin came to power. Numerous people lost their land and houses because of his so called free loans. You never wonder why he ran away to some Arab country? Just look to the land who is bought up by Arab investors in Isan.

And this is his biggest crime, the cheating of the uneducated ignorant rural population of Isan and North.

[xminator]

Very good Thaksin interview exlusive at AJE. Also confirmes that he is in Dubai. It was a much calmer and focused version of the red leader.

[henryalleman]

i was surprised when the yellow shirts said that the reds were not educated enough to vote, i thought they were elitist remarks and to be taken with a pinch of salt.

but having spent most of the past few days watching the news i have to say that those comments had more than just a grain of truth .

the reds are no more than a bunch of straw chewing village idiots (they even come complete with protruding teeth and silly hats.)

nasty, violent and rowdy troublemakers , full of anger, empty of reason , they were easily bought , easily convinced to do wrong, it is good to see them, at last, defeated with heads held low, boarding the cattle trucks and trains that will take them back to their miserable little villages.

abhisit ? after a slow and disappointing first half in pattaya, he came out after half time full of determination and played a wonderful tactical second half to win the game.

I'm a Abhisit fan from the first day, and a suporter of the PAD. But may I urge you to stop insulting the population of Isan with your denigrating racists remarks. Such remarks only show a lack of education (this is an understatement)

[henryalleman]

all is over now. how nice for you to be exiled in a country where there is no question that some parliamentary posts will be by appointees, with no corruption, a fair police force tasked with and proud to be doing the job of keeping order, justice for all irrespective of colour of skin or shirt, good education systems allowing career moves for students who pass to move up the career ladder based on merit not family connections. your list is probably endless.

rome wasnt built in a day.

it will all come one day , but the next building block is abhisit and those pulling his strings, not a bunch of over-excitable club wielding and, lets be honest , none too bright country bumpkins led on by a megalomaniac with a telephone.

thaksin is increasingly beginning to resemble one of those "teetering on the verge of insanity" millionaire villains out of the james bond films who live in big rooms without windows at unknown locations and make pronouncements by videophone to their henchmen in the outside world.

these riots were inevitable and to be welcomed really. they redress the balance ( which had swung too far into the yellow) somewhat and will send out a warning to the yellows and those that fund and support them not to take anything for granted yet.

but the reds showed to the world that they are nowhere near fit to take charge yet. best they go home now and learn some manners.

the country is slowly ( very slowly) working its way to a true 2 party democracy.

A 2 party political is the worst form of democracy as it is proven by the USA and in less extend by the UK.

[xminator]

Its better then a 1 party dictatorship. No need to worry, there will be enough voters for a lot of parties once the current youth generation grows up. What future they can see ahead of them will be vital to where their vote lands.

[britainmal]

The task a head of him is huge and the road is long and populist handouts like the so called free loans Thaksin gave did put the rural population in deeper sh"""t than they ever been. The debt rate in rural Thailand is 5 times higher than before Thaksin came to power. Numerous people lost their land and houses because of his so called free loans. You never wonder why he ran away to some Arab country? Just look to the land who is bought up by Arab investors in Isan.

And this is his biggest crime, the cheating of the uneducated ignorant rural population of Isan and North.

Listen my friend. If Thaksin ruined the Issan people so much financially, why are they protesting for the return of him in power. Yes, I know Thaksin is not a corrupt free man but his crime is being commited everyday by Thai politicians. He is a billionaire, so that is why it is more obvious. He cares about the poor unlike PAD. I hope the new PM ends all corruption and reforms Thailand, but I doubt it.

Edited April 14, 2009 by britainmal

[h90]

Sonthi runs real show. The current PM is his representitive. The Bangkok Post is a xenophobic elitest paper. They should make their paper yellow. The situation is Thailand can be compared to a dictatorship. Forget about the good old years of 2002-2005!

Every news, BBC, CNN, Bangkok Post, The Nation, Channel 3, 5, 11 etc etc all medias from Afghanistan to Zimbabwa are controlled by Sondhi! While the population get suppressed by the army as seen here: http://www.manager.co.th/Politics/ViewNews...D=9520000042089

[jackspratt]

i was surprised when the yellow shirts said that the reds were not educated enough to vote, i thought they were elitist remarks and to be taken with a pinch of salt.

but having spent most of the past few days watching the news i have to say that those comments had more than just a grain of truth .

the reds are no more than a bunch of straw chewing village idiots (they even come complete with protruding teeth and silly hats.)

nasty, violent and rowdy troublemakers , full of anger, empty of reason , they were easily bought , easily convinced to do wrong, it is good to see them, at last, defeated with heads held low, boarding the cattle trucks and trains that will take them back to their miserable little villages.

abhisit ? after a slow and disappointing first half in pattaya, he came out after half time full of determination and played a wonderful tactical second half to win the game.

What an interesting perspective, and such insight - all gained from "watching the news" - tucked up safely in your condo no doubt.

Whilst I am certainly no supporter of the reds, after reading your comments I can fully appreciate that they have no monopoly when it comes to being a "straw chewing village idiot". Just take a random sample of posts on TV for instance - starting perhaps with the quoted post above.

Cattle trucks and trains - what marvellous and bigoted imagery. Particularly when you consider the vast majority would have travelled back to their homes by the perfectly normal avenue of bus.

[brahmburgers]

On the contrary, I understand what he is doing, I am aware of it, but I am also wary of him.

I don't believe what he says for a minute, but he's scored a victory here, even in retreat.

It's politics, and Thaksin plays the game better than anyone.

Thaksin lost big time in recent days. Just one example: while being interviewed on CNN, he hesitated several seconds on answering a few simple questions. When he did say some words, he avoided the question altogether. The interviewer wasn't fooled, and neither were millions of people watching.

Ok, that's mostly international audience. For Thai audiences (because everything T does is a devious performance, is it not?), it's still a mixed bag, though I'd venture that much of his flagging support is being eroded as we speak.

I personally know at least two dozen northern Thai folks who have been T supporters. I haven't spoken to all of them in recent days, but the few I have spoken with are all much more nebulous in their responses when I ask them 'do you still like Thaksin?' ......responses are evasive or tepid. Whereas before they would have said a firm "yes", now they're hedging and eager to switch the subject.

Indeed, anyone who is not on Thaksin's payroll is either off his bandwagon or seriously considering it. Thaksin is playing the game badly and is fading from gray to insignificance.

[mikehock]

Sonthi runs real show. The current PM is his representitive. The Bangkok Post is a xenophobic elitest paper. They should make their paper yellow. The situation is Thailand can be compared to a dictatorship. Forget about the good old years of 2002-2005!

yeah , the financial times was pink, i guess that indicated its 'pinko' commie leanings? NOT

What Dictatorship,when people have been allowed free expression of their views , and only restricted when their protests turned violent

Forget the good old years 2002-2005 , what good is there to remember!!suggest you expand a little!!

[britainmal]

brahmburgers is a little confused. Pad is using the military to oppress the reds. Guns to their head and threats of jail will change their minds for sure just like dicatators do to keep in power. Thaksin's party was corrupt, but the Yellows' party is no better. The big issue is how they(PAD) used the military for their own political needs. This is not acceptable and will not stop corruption. This will make the military more corrupt.

Edited April 14, 2009 by britainmal

[britainmal]

yeah , the financial times was pink, i guess that indicated its 'pinko' commie leanings? NOT

What Dictatorship,when people have been allowed free expression of their views , and only restricted when their protests turned violent

Forget the good old years 2002-2005 , what good is there to remember!!suggest you expand a little!!

The Bangkok Post and The Manager newspapers should be yellow. The people did not have any say in the election when the former PM Somchai had to step down due to a court rulling under threat from PAD and its airport takeover. Pink is not a commie colour mate, red is. suggest you use your logical reasoning skills better.

[henryalleman]

Yes, but I also understand images of hijacked buses burning and rowdy mobs attacking government officials' vehicles with bricks and pipes and how these images tend to discredit certain former PMs who then claim in interviews that the military provoked violence against "unarmed peaceful protesters".

Indeed, but then they also see pictures of soldiers firing live ammo from assault weapons and the Thai Government trying to call it "crowd control".

Then a former-PM who was ousted in a military coup calling for a return to democracy.

2+2

It's a no-brainer for an educated Westerner.

So, howmany innocent people the army killed with their life ammo, please inform us.

[henryalleman]

Listen my friend. If Thaksin ruined the Issan people so much financially, why are they protesting for the return of him in power. Yes, I know Thaksin is not a corrupt free man but his crime is being commited everyday by Thai politicians. He is a billionaire, so that is why it is more obvious. He cares about the poor unlike PAD. I hope the new PM ends all corruption and reforms Thailand, but I doubt it.

I don't know where you live in Thailand, but one of the main reason for the rural people to have Thaksin back is because they hope that he will void their loans and give new ones.

Secondly they think that all his so called free loans and populist stunts came out of his own pocket.

The people of isan needs reforming of agriculture as starters and a better education for their children , Abhisit start do that already with his free education plan.

Are you realy so badly informed about Isan?

People in Isan don't need hand outs but social reforms and Abhisit promised to do that; So give him a change and the time to prove his promises.

And leave the Thaksin era behind you, because that man is history, and he know its, tha's why he let his family flee the country while he urge the poor people from Isan to bring their children to fight his battle; Indeed a dispiccable man urge the poor to give their life for regaining his assets.

I realy don't understand that intelligent people still defending him

[lannarebirth]

Listen my friend. If Thaksin ruined the Issan people so much financially, why are they protesting for the return of him in power. Yes, I know Thaksin is not a corrupt free man but his crime is being commited everyday by Thai politicians. He is a billionaire, so that is why it is more obvious. He cares about the poor unlike PAD. I hope the new PM ends all corruption and reforms Thailand, but I doubt it.

I don't know where you live in Thailand, but one of the main reason for the rural people to have Thaksin back is because they hope that he will void their loans and give new ones.

Secondly they think that all his so called free loans and populist stunts came out of his own pocket.

The people of isan needs reforming of agriculture as starters and a better education for their children , Abhisit start do that already with his free education plan.

Are you realy so badly informed about Isan?

People in Isan don't need hand outs but social reforms and Abhisit promised to do that; So give him a change and the time to prove his promises.

And leave the Thaksin era behind you, because that man is history, and he know its, tha's why he let his family flee the country while he urge the poor people from Isan to bring their children to fight his battle; Indeed a dispiccable man urge the poor to give their life for regaining his assets.

I realy don't understand that intelligent people still defending him

They're not.

[henryalleman]

Listen my friend. If Thaksin ruined the Issan people so much financially, why are they protesting for the return of him in power. Yes, I know Thaksin is not a corrupt free man but his crime is being commited everyday by Thai politicians. He is a billionaire, so that is why it is more obvious. He cares about the poor unlike PAD. I hope the new PM ends all corruption and reforms Thailand, but I doubt it.

I don't know where you live in Thailand, but one of the main reason for the rural people to have Thaksin back is because they hope that he will void their loans and give new ones.

Secondly they think that all his so called free loans and populist stunts came out of his own pocket.

The people of isan needs reforming of agriculture as starters and a better education for their children , Abhisit start do that already with his free education plan.

Are you realy so badly informed about Isan?

People in Isan don't need hand outs but social reforms and Abhisit promised to do that; So give him a change and the time to prove his promises.

And leave the Thaksin era behind you, because that man is history, and he know its, tha's why he let his family flee the country while he urge the poor people from Isan to bring their children to fight his battle; Indeed a dispiccable man urge the poor to give their life for regaining his assets.

I realy don't understand that intelligent people still defending him

They're not.

Your words, not mine

[Thai at Heart]

Listen my friend. If Thaksin ruined the Issan people so much financially, why are they protesting for the return of him in power. Yes, I know Thaksin is not a corrupt free man but his crime is being commited everyday by Thai politicians. He is a billionaire, so that is why it is more obvious. He cares about the poor unlike PAD. I hope the new PM ends all corruption and reforms Thailand, but I doubt it.

I don't know where you live in Thailand, but one of the main reason for the rural people to have Thaksin back is because they hope that he will void their loans and give new ones.

Secondly they think that all his so called free loans and populist stunts came out of his own pocket.

The people of isan needs reforming of agriculture as starters and a better education for their children , Abhisit start do that already with his free education plan.

Are you realy so badly informed about Isan?

People in Isan don't need hand outs but social reforms and Abhisit promised to do that; So give him a change and the time to prove his promises.

And leave the Thaksin era behind you, because that man is history, and he know its, tha's why he let his family flee the country while he urge the poor people from Isan to bring their children to fight his battle; Indeed a dispiccable man urge the poor to give their life for regaining his assets.

I realy don't understand that intelligent people still defending him

Thaksin is probably never going to come back, but it will take a lot more than sufficiency economy to win over the hearts and minds of the Isaan farmers.

Social reform? Does that include land redistribution or even a tax on produce bought from rented land or does 90% of the arable land in the country stay untaxed in the hands of 15% of the populous? Better still, check your apartment rental contract and see if you are renting an apartment or just some furniture in a building? Furniture rentals don't generate a tax payment, and this is the way that the few dominate the many in the country.

These are the issues of the day that Abhisit has to change until then, he will never be perceived as a person who gives a dam_n about the poor.