Arrest Warrants Issued For 14 Red Shirt Leaders And Thaksin

[shawndoc]

so the red leaders are arrested and charged within two days and are being held by the military despite these being criminal charges.

According to TV reports they'll be out on bail shortly, just like the PAD leaders. And just like the PAD, I'm sure it will be months before they find themselves behind bars if ever. There's nothing different going on here.

As to being held by the military, keep in mind that the police abdicated their responsibility and the army had to be called in. The fact that the military took longer to process them is probably because as you mention these are criminal charges, and the Army needed a little extra time to figure out what to do with them and how to turn them over the to legal system to be processed.

And from what I saw on TV, everyone has already been turned over to the police. Not sure how long they were in Army custody, but it doesn't appear overly long.

[doverinphuket]

As mentioned previously I am happy that the Red leaders have been charged for the crimes they have committed and hope they receive a fair and transparent trial.

I do note on this site however that many people think that charges have been laid for the airport takeover by the yellows. This is actually not true, the 18 leaders have heard charges for occupying government house and the damage and theft at government house during this protest.

Charges for the occupation of Phuket, Don Muang and Suvarnbhumi airports have still not been laid. Last I heard from the police spokesman in the media was that the case is "80% finalised" .

Just clarifying a couple of facts.

[thaimythai]

the way i see this sittuation, and before i start im neither red or yellow ive spent alot of time in bangkok and also issan and for all those poeple on here that say issan and north poeple are dumb and uneducated ideots please dont i can assure you they arent, ok they might not be so lucky to have an education as good as in bangkok but they certenly arent dumb, is that democracy in thailand at this present time really doesent seem to be working, yes the last goverment should have gone but then there should have been an election a vote by the poeple, not one that was put together, let alone jumping from one side to another to make it, the poeple in the north feel cheated they voted for them because of the party they were with, not for who they are, mr abphist has a chance now and so hope he takes it call an election, but i dont think he will, its starting again up here allready all im hearing from locals is how comes its taken 2 days to arrest the reds but 4 months for yellows, the situation is not gonna go away.

[MiG16]

alright folks

stop with the personal attacks

i know everyone has strong views, but end of the day please do remember you guys dont even know each other in person. why go on the attacking mode over a third party?

also, its against forum rules. please keep it civil and non personal

cheers

[xminator]

Can anyone confirm that government broke into regular TV schedules yesterday and issued arrest warrants for 50 red leaders complete with name and pictures?

[blackman]

Is it Abhisit's fault if no court has issued arrest warrants for the PAD leaders or do you guys suggest Abhisit should take influence on the courts?

I would think that a PM would have enough power to have an arrest warrant issued for someone that occupied the government house for 5 months and the airports for a week, no?

But then again, you can't prosecute those who made you PM, that would be treason.

May I suggest you learn the first page about the organisation of a democracy with separation of power before you post here.

Abhisit has earned my admiration for handling the situation, although I would have preferred him to act quicker, i.e. BEFORE the ASEAN Summit in Pattaya.

But besides this, the way he handled the situation here in Bangkok is very good. Nobody got killed except for the two killings done by the Red Shirts and law and order has returned to Bangkok within 24 hours. The leaders are under arrest and the police and the military have not used excessive force like under the Somchai government.

The big looser is Thaksin. The most powerful man 4 years ago has not been able to mobilize more than 10'000 rioters, who just came to Bangkok to have some action and let out some steam. I believe this guy Thaksin is over, finished and out.

I wouldn't sell Thaksin short. He is not stupid by any measurement. He likely funded both sides and left the Government and the taxpayers with a trillion baht bill for the messes in both Pattaya and and Bangkok. The UDD do not pay much taxes compared to the PAD, therefor do not care how big the bill actually is. The crumbling economy takes everything down and Thaksin is still standing. He comes in and fixes Thailand and his statue goes up in place of the Victory Monument. His money is worth twice as much and he is in total control.

He pulled out strategically at the point he did because the damage is done and the bill is big. He spent a few billion for a much larger return in a year or two. I am certain there are many Thaksin supporters working inside the current government at relatively high levels. It is the same thinking as Alan Pauslon when he stated that a $200 thousand dollar a year congressman is no match for a $20 million a year CEO of on of the Major US auto makers. The same applies to Thaksin and the current administration.

not stupid?

any man that commits crimes that are of such simplicity that even a Thai policeman can follow the thread and solve and then compounds that stupidity by leaving 76 billion baht and billions more in assets behind to be seized by the government, can hardly be called clever can he?

if i had done what he did, there would not be one satang in Thailand for anybody to seize

he is a stupid arrogant little man and like most little men, he is very balanced

he has a chip on both shoulders...

[Robby nz]

Loks like most have forgoton that the PAD protests took place under a different Govt, the one he reds support.

There was only something done about having then called in to face charges after Abasith came to power.

PAD protest cost the country dearly but they never did the physical damage the reds have done with fires and shooting and beating ordinary citizens trying to protect their proporty and businesses.

The sight of the people of BKK coming out and aplauding the army as they chased the reds away shows where the sympathies lie.

[dogleg]

...and like most little men, he is very balanced

he has a chip on both shoulders...

Unfair to the Little Shirts, Blackman! You dont want us on the streets!

Or did you mean Length?

[hammered]

Nothing wrong with these arrest warrants. The yellow cases should be speeded up too. Applying the law fully and fairly is vital. No amnesty should be given for criminal acts on any side.

Also Abhsist should now announce reform in consultation with anyone who is willing to talk followedby elections.

Amnesty for those of the 111 who didnt comit any criminal act may also be a good idea. It would show reconcilliation as well as possibly freeing up potential reform dialogue partners for the PM and creating an image for him as reasonable to his lesseropponets. Lets also face it most of the red leadership are facing a lot of criminal charges and the PTP leadership not exactly capableofmaking a decision. People like Chaturon though who is close to leftist and pro-democracy groups has not to the best of my knowledge indulged in crimes or fanned the riots.Right now there may still be enough reasonable people around on both sides to still sort this through by talk and not insanity. However, that could soon change. Reform is going to happen it is just a matter of making everyone a stake holder in it by compromise and talk rather than through violence or imposition. Everyone agrees to reform it is just they dont agree on its nature. Now is time to do that.

[gregb]

As mentioned previously I am happy that the Red leaders have been charged for the crimes they have committed and hope they receive a fair and transparent trial.

I do note on this site however that many people think that charges have been laid for the airport takeover by the yellows. This is actually not true, the 18 leaders have heard charges for occupying government house and the damage and theft at government house during this protest.

Charges for the occupation of Phuket, Don Muang and Suvarnbhumi airports have still not been laid. Last I heard from the police spokesman in the media was that the case is "80% finalised" .

Just clarifying a couple of facts.

My understanding is that in the case of the airport closure, the case against the PAD is extremely difficult, and that is why they have focused on Government House, where the liability is clear cut.

The problem with the airport fiasco, at least in the case of Suvarnbhumi, is that it was voluntarily closed. Now, it may be obvious to you and me that it was "siezed", but being obvious and being able to prove it in a court of law are very different things. It may be that in the case of the airport shutdown, they can't actually get the PAD leaders on anything more serious than trespassing, at least with any degree of reliability. I don't really know. This is all fifth hand rumors and a little bit of speculation thrown in for good measure, but I can believe it is true. It is logically consistent with the facts.

And can you imagine the backlash if the PAD leaders were found innocent of the airport charges due to some legal technicality? Maybe it's just me, but I can understand why the government is dragging its feet on prosecuting that one if the above is in fact true. The Government House debacle is a slam dunk. It just makes logical sense to hit there first, and let someone else deal with the stink bomb that is the airport closure.

In the case of the recent UDD riots, I'm glad to see the government has streamlined its procedures. I'm sure the experience prosecuting the PAD has given them an understanding of exactly what evidence they need to make the charges stick. If they get good enough at this, the next set of riots might even be prevented just with a credible threat to prosecute. Now, that really would be democracy in action....people actually obeying the rule of law? What will they think of next.

[Chaimai]

76 Billion THB of his monies is frozen in Thailand....

If you were compiling Thaksin's latest balance sheet what valued would you attribute to these 'frozen assets'.

As a secondary game what odds would you give on Thaksin ever seeing these again ?

[ballpoint]

before the reds got violent, the level of civil disobedience of yellows and reds were about equal. Shutting down the airport was probably the worse.

the difference is that yellow demands were more or less met. so they went home. plus, the army did not get involved so the situation did not escalate.

The red demands were not met, they got frustrated, they were provoked , tempers got out of hand and the thing escalated from there.

The yellows were ready to rumble if they too were provoked. plenty of hard core yellows hiding amongst the grandmas.

The real difference between the two is the level of support they got from the "establishment" and military.

Courts and army and other high level interests were on the yellows side, what this translated into was their demands being met.

convenient huh

I think your being optimistic if you expect the judicial system to act fairly in all this.

Abhisit will of course give a tight smile and say something like "all people are equal in the eyes.." bla bla bla ..

Excuse me, shutting down the airport by sitting in the public areas of the terminal and causing the AOT to close the airport in panic is worse than driving LPG tankers in the middle of Bangkok and threatening to explode them? I'd like to see your scales of justice, the red side is made of feathers and the yellow of lead. Are you aware of the LPG tanker explosion on Petchaburi Road in 1990? A relatively small one, only 63 killed and 90 injured. A tanker going up in a residential area would have caused massive carnage.

There is a huge difference between the yellow and red protests, the yellows mainly kept to the areas they'd laid out, not marauding through the city, despite being attacked by the reds almost nightly. The reds started peacefully, mainly because the yellows stayed home and allowed them to protest, and were "provoked" by the government ignoring them. They then went on the rampage like a bunch of brats who, having had their tantrums ignored, start breaking things in order to get attention. The last few days have caused an enormous shift in the way many Thai's now view Thaksin and the reds, but I guess the red tinted glasses wearing posters here will never admit to that.

[losworld]

There's no doubt Thaksin is savvy and was once an effective politician but bottom line is the guy has gone bonkers. His ego and lust for power has made him into an impatient fool. If he was smart his best move would have been to wait for the economy and time to take its toll on the current gov't and wait for an election. Instead he has accelerated the situation as a result of his own greed and paranoia and simply blew it! Now the people of Bangkok will never see him elected and if smart the disgruntled in Isaan will look for another leader or a party with a real agenda.

[ThaiPlutocracy]

76 Billion THB of his monies is frozen in Thailand....

If you were compiling Thaksin's latest balance sheet what valued would you attribute to these 'frozen assets'.

As a secondary game what odds would you give on Thaksin ever seeing these again ?

If those assets were cash in the bank, the value has not changed a bit.

As for the 2nd question , Iam not a fortune teller, but what I can predict is that when the inevitable occurs, things will change forever in this country.

Which way I do not know , but the shift will be seismic.

[hammered]

Channel News Asia reporting Thaksins passport has been pulled.

[hammered]

76 Billion THB of his monies is frozen in Thailand....

If you were compiling Thaksin's latest balance sheet what valued would you attribute to these 'frozen assets'.

As a secondary game what odds would you give on Thaksin ever seeing these again ?

If those assets were cash in the bank, the value has not changed a bit.

As for the 2nd question , Iam not a fortune teller, but what I can predict is that when the inevitable occurs, things will change forever in this country.

Which way I do not know , but the shift will be seismic.

Which is probably a reason why sane heads should try to resolve it all now. However, the potential rewards of power and money that can go with the change ultimately complicate everything and leave people losing all reason. There is a power struggle for control at the elite level combined with a desire in people for more say and a better share, and that leaves a lot of contradiction sthat if not reconciled could be calamatous in the mid term.

[Tony Clifton]

Channel News Asia reporting Thaksins passport has been pulled.

Surely Thaksin has a few foreign passports lined up by now, but that won't stop Interpol.

[CrossBones]

Its Sad Really.

Thaksin could have been a much better man, he had so much to offer Thailand - but he got too big for his boots, too greedy, and tried to make too many changes too quickly.

[Jai Dee]

Channel News Asia reporting Thaksins passport has been pulled.

Continued in this topic.

[jayboy]

No winners in Thailand's crisis By Jonathan Head

BBC News, Bangkok

Nobody won. That is the only conclusion that can be drawn from the chaotic events in Thailand over the past few days.

Certainly not the red-shirted United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD), whose attempted uprising degenerated into a series of chaotic clashes with the army that left a wake of destruction on the streets of Bangkok.

Not Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva either. Although he clawed back a lot of his authority through the successful military operation to disperse the UDD protesters, the promise he made on taking office four months ago to promote reconciliation in his country now looks hollow.

Not the army, which carried out the unpleasant task of clearing the streets with growing confidence, and surprisingly light casualties.

Its decision to suppress these protesters, when it did nothing about the equally damaging actions of the yellow-shirted People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) last year, makes a mockery of its claim to be a neutral force.

That and the 2006 coup that deposed Thaksin Shinawatra have irrevocably tarnished its image with a sizable part of the Thai population.

Not the police, who are now such a diminished and demoralised force that almost no-one in Thailand expected them to play any role in the recent disorder.

When confronted by a few thousand unarmed protesters at the Asian summit in Pattaya, they offered only token resistance. In Bangkok they were essentially invisible. Without a functioning police force, the rule of law that Mr Abhisit has talked of so often becomes very precarious.

And finally, not Thaksin Shinawatra, whose melodramatic call for a people's uprising fell flat, and who is still stuck in exile, without a secure place of refuge.

Polarising figure

Three years of intractable political conflict are taking a debilitating toll on Thailand. Emotions are now very raw.

Some of the ugliest scenes in recent days did not involve the army; they occurred when local residents came out to confront the rampaging red-shirts. Shots were fired, two people died, and some were savagely beaten.

It is difficult to explain why Thailand, a country once seen as a paragon of stability and social harmony, has become so polarised.

The division between Red and Yellow cuts across many lines; it is not simply just rural-versus-urban, or poor-versus-rich. Spend long enough with either group and you meet people from very varied backgrounds.

But there is one issue that clearly divides the two camps.

That issue is Thaksin Shinawatra, the man who shattered the traditional mould of Thai politics through his brilliant campaigns, winning him two record election victories in 2001 and 2005.

Not all the Reds love this brash and controversial figure.

But they pretty much all think he was unjustly removed from office by the 2006 coup, and that the various legal cases brought against him - he was sentenced to two years in jail in absentia last year for an abuse of power - are without merit.

They also believe in the power of his populist agenda, the key to his party's mass following.

Not just because it improved the lot of the rural poor - economists have questioned the efficiency and long-term benefit of many of his policies - but because for the first time it gave poorer Thais a sense that their vote mattered, that voting for a particular policy platform could bring you tangible benefits.

This approach politicised a previously neglected class of people in Thailand, and made them a powerful, new force.

These people are the reason Mr Thaksin did so well in elections, and the reason his allies were returned to office in 2007, in the first election held after the coup, even though Mr Thaksin and 110 of his top party officials were banned from running.

They are now the mass base of the red-shirt movement. And they believe, passionately, that their side has been treated unfairly.

Festering grievances

The many, well-founded criticisms made of Mr Thaksin's style of government do not affect that view: that he was autocratic, fatally weakening Thailand's fragile democratic institutions; that he presided over a sharp escalation of human rights violations; that corruption continued to flourish under his administrations; that he shamelessly promoted on the basis of loyalty, not competence.

These are points made tirelessly by the PAD during their anti-Thaksin protests last year, and they are hard to refute.

But because so many poorer Thais saw this flawed politician as their champion, they resented it bitterly when forces aligned with the wealthy elite decided to bend the rules to kick him out of office.

It was ultra-royalist generals who led the coup. But they were cheered on by conservative judges and bureaucrats, wealthy business tycoons and many urban, middle-class Thais. Mr Thaksin's followers felt robbed.

That sense of being robbed continued last year when they saw the governments they had voted for harried by the PAD, and then disqualified by bizarre court decisions.

And they felt patronised when PAD activists said - as they did repeatedly - that the only reason the poor voted for Mr Thaksin was because he had bribed them to.

These grievances continue to fester, and deepen the divide in Thai society.

Go to a red-shirt rally and you will hear the same mantra; "We are grass-roots people, fighting for democracy, against the ruling class".

Go to a yellow-shirt rally and you will almost inevitably hear a different mantra; "We are educated people, fighting against corrupt politicians who abuse democracy".

There appear to be no towering, Obama-like figures in Thailand, who can win the respect of both camps. Certainly not Mr Abhisit, who often looks uncomfortably out of place in the rural, red heartlands of the north and north-east.

How he deals with the leaders of the "red uprising" now - and how that compares with the treatment given to last year's "yellow uprising" - will be an important test of his promise to uphold the rule of law impartially.

So the conflict which erupted so spectacularly in Bangkok and Pattaya over the past week will probably rumble on, steadily eroding the confidence of investors, tourists and the Thai people, in a stable future for their country.

Story from BBC NEWS:

[Thunder26]

The military are firmly on the side of the yellows and the military controls the country--they act when they want to act. When it comes to acting against the reds, they did so. Abhisit is merely a puppet--and that is becoming clearer all the time. He's a nice puppet, a smart puppet and a well educated puppet--but a puppet none-the-less.

You nailed it man. It is exactly as it is. Short, accurate and clear, no need for long debates Just one remark, anyway someone is controlling the army. Who is it ????

[Scott]

I think there are a lot of lessons in history about who is in charge of the armies. Especially a lot of European countries in the past. But it is a symbiotic relationship, since you don't want your army mad at you.

[RockerRoller]

The military are firmly on the side of the yellows and the military controls the country--they act when they want to act. When it comes to acting against the reds, they did so. Abhisit is merely a puppet--and that is becoming clearer all the time. He's a nice puppet, a smart puppet and a well educated puppet--but a puppet none-the-less.

You nailed it man. It is exactly as it is. Short, accurate and clear, no need for long debates Just one remark, anyway someone is controlling the army. Who is it ????

General Prem of course who is the most powerful man in Thailand and at odds with Thaksin. So far the score is 3:0 for Prem.

Actually it is strange that nobody talks about his influence on this forum. Ask any Thai and they tell you that army listens to Prem ALWAYS!

[Chaimai]

I think there are a lot of lessons in history about who is in charge of the armies. Especially a lot of European countries in the past. But it is a symbiotic relationship, since you don't want your army mad at you.

You could always try a search here for the Royal Thai Army:-

http://72.14.235.132/search?q=cache:RaAiki...=clnk&gl=th

[lannarebirth]

The military are firmly on the side of the yellows and the military controls the country--they act when they want to act. When it comes to acting against the reds, they did so. Abhisit is merely a puppet--and that is becoming clearer all the time. He's a nice puppet, a smart puppet and a well educated puppet--but a puppet none-the-less.

You nailed it man. It is exactly as it is. Short, accurate and clear, no need for long debates Just one remark, anyway someone is controlling the army. Who is it ????

General Prem of course who is the most powerful man in Thailand and at odds with Thaksin. So far the score is 3:0 for Prem.

Actually it is strange that nobody talks about his influence on this forum. Ask any Thai and they tell you that army listens to Prem ALWAYS!

So, is it your opinion that Prem asked Anupong to have his troops in Pattaya stand down in their protection of ASEAN dignitaries?

[cmsally]

Weren't the police meant to be in charge of security in Pattaya?

[lannarebirth]

Weren't the police meant to be in charge of security in Pattaya?

Yes, originally. They were supplemented by "Special Army Units" and the 21st infantry from Chinburi. On the day of the conference Police Chief Patcharawat Wongsuwan was no where to be seen , nor was Gen Anupong Paochinda, the army chief.

[cmsally]

I believe regarding BKK crisis it was the "mothership" to deputy giving orders, Anupong got bypassed for "various reasons".

Maybe not so in Patters.

[lannarebirth]

I believe regarding BKK crisis it was the "mothership" to deputy giving orders, Anupong got bypassed for "various reasons".

Maybe not so in Patters.

Correct. That's my understanding as well.

[gregb]

I believe regarding BKK crisis it was the "mothership" to deputy giving orders, Anupong got bypassed for "various reasons".

Maybe not so in Patters.

Question:

How do you "bypass" the chief of the army? The army, by its very nature, is a hierarchical structure. In order to get it to do anything, it needs a command from its superior officer. How does Abhisit do anything without requesting it through General Anupong, or otherwise having a subordinate verify the order with Anupong? Unlike a country like the US, where the president is at the top of the military chain of command, a PM in Thailand has no authority over the military.

Or does an emergency degree place him in the command chain? Or, was there another influential figure who is viewed in the chain of command who gave the order to "bypass" Anupong? Does anyone know the details of how this happened? Just curious.