Prefer Gwm To Gam

[onni4me]

Going through websites and having chats and talks and talking face to face with Thais, so many say that they prefer Caucasian to Asians.

I recognize the usual financial aspect but it can't be all that.

Recently, though, watched a Thai gay couple go through an encounter where the other cheated a lot of money out of his partner. I tried to warn the guy since I know this person in question was to be married soon...but of course no-one wants to hear the bad news. Now the other guy is struggling with all the debt that he made buying stuff to the other. Nice touch! So it doesn't happen only to farangs.

I feel that we Europeans (or any other Western national) are quite romantic compared to Asians meaning that we believe in the possibility having that significant other for the rest of our lives. Yes! I know NOT ALL but at least I have this imprinted in my brain. Asians seem really to live for the status and when facing the reality, quickly skip all uncomfortable aspects.

BTW, I talked to a good friend of the 'bad guy' and he being Thai just made some lame excuse that the other guy was not 'good enough'. Really? After buying a house in the name of that shitbag and losing all his money etc. Now the betrayed guy goes circles to find his former lover who is going to marry soon. A real shit storm is approaching, I guess.

Also heard from my bf that so many famous/popular gays end up being cheated by other Asians/their boyfriends. He also said that it's difficult to have a relationship like ours with a Thai. When asking why he replied that: It would not be good for him. It would make him loose face etc.

When asking why he would not loose face staying with me (although, he is very shy when I am being open about myself/us) he said something that these "rules" don't apply to foreigners. Don't really know. Maybe we are better accepted people thinking that we all are born with Platinum Visas.

Any experiences? Ideas? Stories?

[Ijustwannateach]

If you are talking on 'the typical' websites for foreigners to Thais who speak English well enough to write it, then you are speaking with a very atypical crowd. It is not surprising that they say they prefer foreigners- after all, they're roaming around on chatlines which cater to foreigners- but their English and their presence on those websites is a big form of self-selection. I find that the correlation of moneyboyism and financial 'troubles' is very high for such populations- make of that what you will.

Most gay Thais like other gay Thais, and mainly meet and date them- and most foreigners never encounter them at all. While it is not a perfect world, and Thais can be horrid to each other just as foreigners can be horrid to each other, I find that there is much less commercialism among the mainstream populations.

Caveat emptor, or better yet, don't 'buy' at all.

[onni4me]

I recognize the usual financial aspect but it can't be all that.

Point taken but I was referring maybe to a more wide perspective. The financial side is sometimes a strong factor, can't deny that. I really haven't met so many gay Thai couples that I could speak for them. The only ones I've met (perhaps 2 or 3) have been together very short times and done all the mistakes that farangs are blamed for doing.

I am sure there are happy Thai couples as well but for me the language factor and the fact that I very seldom attend any gay scene life, makes it very difficult to enlarge my view.

[Ijustwannateach]

I know a foreigner whose working Thai boyfriend had a serious discussion with him over whether it was right for him to accept 1000B or so as a gift to help him, the very first time that money of that magnitude had changed hands in about 6 months of dating.

I know another foreigner who has been offered taxi money going home from an encounter.

I know several foreigners who have been the guests of their Thai dates and friends at restaurants, pubs, etc. with equitable frequency to their being the hosts.

I have had to explain to Thais the pressure that the stereotyping of foreigners as "dating prostitutes" has caused me personally, and the efforts I feel I must make to distance myself from that stereotype.

I know a number of Thais who are either singles dating or couples- and it all seems pretty normal to me (i.e., not primarily financial). However, there are many financial arrangements out there too- I just don't try to get to know couples that work on that basis.

[toptuan]

I know another foreigner who has been offered taxi money going home from an encounter.

Rather than generosity, smacks to me of being just a very clever Thai who wants to distance himself from the money-boy crowd. Nothing wrong with that.

[Steve2UK]

Good points from IJWT - and toptuan. Not mentioned yet, but I think the perceived high(er) status of caucasians seems to play some role for some Thai - and I separate that from considerations of how relatively well-off the caucasian might be.

[onni4me]

What comes to the straight relationships...er...there is also the factor of the color of the skin. So many times I've heard that idea of lighter skin being a benefit in Thai hierarchy.

I used to go out (eating, dining,trips, no bars or such) with a high-so Thai that always found mistakes from my behavior. When I asked what went wrong, I got that inevitable answer that I should try to comply with Thai culture and rules of conduct (sic!). The problem was that I acted like I always do and nobody ever told me what those rules were. Sometimes accused being rude, sometimes being acting loud and so on. So I left the situation since I don't believe in big changes in my own character. I agree that it might be bettered but doubt if I would be happy afterwards.

I think that too many Thais use the Thai ways and culture in the wrong way and expect us farangs to know their thoughts and ways. We are no mindreaders, you mind!

IMHO, living with a Thai partner is not that different compared to an European guy. Now I am happy and in balance with my expectations. I have a Thai family that seems to love me and also accept me as I am (there's a handful, I know). The best part is the easy living with them, something that I suspect would cause problems in my own country.

[scorecard]

"..... I used to go out (eating, dining,trips, no bars or such) with a high-so Thai that always found mistakes from my behavior. When I asked what went wrong, I got that inevitable answer that I should try to comply with Thai culture and rules of conduct (sic!). The problem was that I acted like I always do and nobody ever told me what those rules were. ....."

Sounds to me like a very manipulating person who couldn't cope with you interacting with other people. Also, someone who was looking for confrontation.

Better off looking for better pastures.

[popshirt]

I know another foreigner who has been offered taxi money going home from an encounter.

Rather than generosity, smacks to me of being just a very clever Thai who wants to distance himself from the money-boy crowd. Nothing wrong with that.

Absolutely right TT. When my bf and I got together 5 years ago he would always distance himself from me on the skytrain or when walking down the street in Silom so as not to appear to be 'together' with an older farang. This was his custom for the fist year or so but no longer. He is well educated and self supporting and pays a share of our common expenses as well as offering me gifts from time to time, the latest being a Georgio Armani wristwatch (well of course it isn't the genuine article but it is a step up from those one sees on the footpaths of Patpong!).

[PeaceBlondie]

Is this thread title misleaeing. as if we never met a manipulative gay white man?

[BrianJohn]

Returning from three weeks in LOS, the gist of this thread reminded of a comment by a straight friend who lived in Thailand for a few years, married a Thai woman then settled in Oz. “Thais make the best friends money can buy” his subtlety was appreciated and helpful in my recent travels.

I enjoyed the company of a local lad whose way I happily paid on outings, only fair I thought considering his low income and that I was suggesting outings. I established early on what was an acceptable expense and that worked well.

Interestingly the “no touch in public” lasted for most of the time, until he understood that sex was not a condition of friendship. A discussion about preferences did arise, with each indicating a bias toward our own ethnic origins without causing any discomfort, in fact that discussion probably further broke down any remaining barriers and lead to him initiated casual physical contact in public, being in context with the conversation and occasion.

While sex was not part of the initial arrangement, later when the occasion arose it was enjoyed by both parties (or appeared to be!)

[Scott]

There are a lot of factors that play into whom we find desirable. I work in a Thai institutional setting and there are quite a number of gays. Although they speak English, they do seem to be mostly interested in other Thais. We have a number of gay white males of varying ages, so the selection process is pretty broad, if they were interested.

Another point that needs to be made is about people simply 'exploring' other options. I know a lot of Thais who seem to enjoy an 'encounter' with a foreigner, but wouldn't think of dating or a relationship. I also have a number of very good Thai friends who are interested in only having a friendship with farangs, but nothing sexual (it's frustrating too since they are quite attractive).

The most interesting people I know are the rather wealthy (often Thai-Chinese), who are quite closeted and have an interest in farangs because they believe they can't be 'black-mailed' or outed very easily.

Lots of different people. Lots of different preferences. Lots of different choices.

[Ijustwannateach]

^If everyone comes away from this thread with just one thing, it would be this message of diversity and variety embodied in Scott's message. There are horses for courses, and different strokes for different folks. Be very suspicious of (and pity) any gay foreigner in Thailand who is living in such a cloud of self-delusion and small-mindedness that he spouts some condescending trash as "all gay Thais are the same." Be equally suspicious of any foreigners or Thais who believe the same of gay foreigners in Thailand.

[PeaceBlondie]

In my experience, worldwide, most gay men are versatile and almost all Hispanic bisexuals are tops. And they all come in all sizes.

[supbangkok]

Hispanic bi-sexual tops yum yum! Any of those out and about in BKK?

[Rionoir]

Wow I didn't read this thread carefully enough... how did it come down to Hispanic bisexual tops... hahaha

Anyway, I was going to say that since learning Thai (finally) well enough to have conversations with gay Thais who don't speak English, I've asked several of them about this topic a little bit. I find that a good number of Thai boys just can't stand the Thai way of dating and jealousy and telling each other you are in love after your first 2 hour date. Of course there are plenty of other reasons, just like there are plenty of reasons many farang like Thai boys...