Alternative Countries To Retire To 2 :owning Land!

[BuaBS]

Yes , there have been many recent posts on this subject, but when you read them , it boils down to :

Which neighboring country you can get the cheapest bier, cheap young bargirls and watching football.

Don't get me wrong, I love Thailand. It is the best compromise in the world when it comes to living standard, cost of living, infrastructure (roads!), shopping, security, medical aid, fairly nice people, and law(lessness).

This is not a post for working farang here, or big income Americans, (why come here when you have Hawaii, Guam, Puerto Rico, Florida,...) nor the Aussies who always rave about their country in every post. (you can live nicely in northern Australia)

Not for the big income (60.000B or more) Brits /Scandinavians and Germans, who can retire in Spain or Greece where they can still afford the out of control prices since joining the EU and the eastern European/Russian invasion.

A lot of people like me, who come to Thailand to retire on a modest income, have their dreams shattered, by the impossibility of owning land through a company.

Leasing is full of holes like Swiss cheese, and the ones who are not willing to marry and /or trust their wife/gf/(ex)?hooker with the title deed of the land they are building and living on, have no chance either.

To the people in other recent posts in their ivory tower ( on land they have through a company, or which they might get thrown off when the wife/gf doesn't need/want them anymore because she has a new boyfriend), shouting RENT RENT!! There is no better time to buy than now , it is a buyers market.

Wait another 2 years for commodities , building material and transport costs to go over the roof again?

Renting has so many disadvantages, few advantages.

And for all the sex-residents, it doesn't matter where they live as long as they have access to p#ssy.

Forget about the colored shirt-people, in a couple of months it will be a bad memory, forget about recession in Thailand, I haven't seen it. And so what if there are a couple of million tourists less than the 12 million.

They'll be back for sure.

Buying a condo?? NO thanks. Do I want to lock myself up in 65 qm , with noisy neighbors through a 7 cm concrete brick wall? Even renting would be better or returning to my own country.(thicker walls!)

SO finally the question: What is an alternative country for retiring on a piece of land that I can (semi) own? I know it has been asked in other posts too, but no real good answers.

Laos/ Cambodia? forget it! No infrastructure, a life is even less worth than here in LOS. Full of landmines. Unsafe. Shopping sucks.

Myanmar? Yeah right!

Vietnam? Do I want to see dogs in a can or as mystery meat? Grew up with the Vietnam war.

Philippines? To small, too many people , typhoons, guerilla war in the south.

What's left: 2 Islamic states: Malaysia : more expensive but they have a retirement scheme.

Indonesia: Java ?? Maybe? Sumatra dangerous, Bali too small

Borneo Malaysian or Indonesian side, nothing but jungle/plantations

Sri lanka ? too small, unfriendly weird people, Tamils war...

Southern India, the Goa area?

So what do you think is a solution and alternative to the BS laws of owning land in LOS?

Oh! Thanks for the long read!

[keithlee]

rent!

no where is it stated you have to buy!

[chiang mai]

Absolutely agree. Mods, can we have some smaller fonts installed please?

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

Try central america. You can own land there and no land mines that I have heard about. Immigration rules very easy, cost depends on your life style.

[fiddlehead]

Sounds like no matter what anyone thinks, you'll find fault with it.

Good luck finding your heaven.

I'm fine here. Never met a better woman, place to raise kids, quality of food and the choices of food i get, love the weather, beaches, mountains, prices, like driving a reliable easily kept-up motorbike, much better lifestyle than i had where i came from.

Go check out all those places. I'd be willing to bet you'll be back.

[LooseCannon]

Nicaraguan citizenship will cost you $16,000.

It takes only 13-15 days to obtain Nicaragua citizenship including filing in the Immigration Registry. Documents delivery takes 2-3 working days.

Now if you book a flight tomorrow.....

[BuaBS]

Ok first, sorry about the big font, it seemed a little small on 1920x1200 pix.

Keithlee & Chiang Mai: Don't say rent again! It may work for you, but it doesn't

for a lot of other people, just read the other posts!

You probably are just the two in your ivory tower on the land your wife owns.

BEENTHEREDONETHAT: I should have said SA or SEA, the America's or Africa no thanks.

Nicaragua: you've got to be kidding!

Fiddlehead: I never stated that I didn't like it here, but since the company way is nailed shut you have got to look elsewhere.

If I didn't care about anyones thoughts about this I wouldn't have started a post.

Every choice of country is in comparison with Thailand, so yes I find faults .

By the way are you renting too?

And yes, I 've read the other posts, still reading actually, cause there are recent ones.

[NaiGreg]

No one can own land on the planet Earth. Titles for land can be had in some locations. Some dubious, some less so.

Personally, I have a 4,369 year lease on a 2-rai plot.

Just in case I have really good DNA, I have an option clause to renew.

Never quite understood why so many are obsessed with the illusions of land ownership.

[BuaBS]

No one can own land on the planet Earth. Titles for land can be had in some locations. Some dubious, some less so.

Personally, I have a 4,369 year lease on a 2-rai plot.

Just in case I have really good DNA, I have an option clause to renew.

Never quite understood why so many are obsessed with the illusions of land ownership.

Funny, now we're getting philosophical.

Isn't leasing it also an illusion of owning it?

You've never understood why so many are obsessed with the illusions of land ownership.

If you could own it you wouldn't lease it.

Ownership is having the land for a while , to do with it what you want, to improve it,

to invest in it, and maybe after 10 , 15 or 20 years sell it, for what ever reason.

Why invest in it if it isn't yours, like lease or rented property?

[ballbreaker]

OP can you please fill me in on the disadvantages of renting? I have been doing just that for the last five years and see no downside.

[PhilHarries]

A few comments below in red.

Laos/ Cambodia? forget it! No infrastructure, a life is even less worth than here in LOS. Full of landmines. Unsafe. Shopping sucks.

Not been to either yet but Cambodia is up for an evaluation trip in a couple of months. I believe the infrastructure is not up to Thailand's standard and healthcare is a problem. But I have heard good things about the place and being a first hand experience kind of person will take the time to check it out.

Myanmar? Yeah right!

'Nuff said, even if the junta could be deposed tomorrow and full democracy installed it'll take decades to undo the damage inflicted by the generals.

Vietnam? Do I want to see dogs in a can or as mystery meat? Grew up with the Vietnam war.

Did you fight in the war? It's a beautiful country that I had the priveledge to be paid to go work in for 16 months and I'll be going back for a few weeks in May. In all that time I never saw dogs in cans, don't think they can dog's meat, and wlthough dog restaurants exist you have to go hunt them out. Pretty well the same visa and land ownership issues as with Thailand but things are changing. Infrastructure is less developed than Thailand as is healthcare once you are away from the developed cities like HCMC.

Philippines? To small, too many people , typhoons, guerilla war in the south.

Too small? Just try counting the islands you'll need to do more than take your shoes and socks off. So there's a guerilla war in the south, don't go down south. Too many people? Yes, but it depends on where you are, there are some beautiful places almost deserted but then the infrastructure is just non-existant.

What's left: 2 Islamic states: Malaysia : more expensive but they have a retirement scheme. Correct and you can 100% own land in your own name. But it isn't cheap so that rules that out of your plans. The Islamic side of the culture only affects Muslims and then mainly in the northern Islamic majority states. In KL you'd hardly know you were in a predominantly Muslim country.

Indonesia: Java ?? Maybe? Sumatra dangerous, Bali too small

Borneo Malaysian or Indonesian side, nothing but jungle/plantations

Sri lanka ? too small, unfriendly weird people, Tamils war...

Southern India, the Goa area?

I'll not comment on the remainder as, apart from dismissing a large swathe of the region based on nothing but impressions, I've not been to the places myself.

So what do you think is a solution and alternative to the BS laws of owning land in LOS?

Oh! Thanks for the long read![/size]

You seem to have dismissed Thailand for it's BS laws on land ownership and then go on to dismiss all the regional alternatives, including the one where you can own land, based on anything that you don't like about the places. Have you actually been to any of these places to see for yourself or do you base your plans on what you read in the newspapers or get from one of the resident bar experts?

The only real suggestion I have is that you, having rejected every country in the region, perhaps ought to think about returning from whence you came as it appears the rest of the world doesn't make the grade.

[fiddlehead]

Fiddlehead:

By the way are you renting too?

Yes, i rent here in Thailand although we are looking for land. (I trust my wife but would put it in my kid's name anyway)

I own a house in the US and rent it out, I use the income from that which more than pays my rent here.

The only problem with all of that is: I pay real estate and school taxes back in the states, yet have to pay a hefty amount to send my kid to a decent school here.

If I have one problem with Thailand, it is their school system. I fully believe the government wants to keep it that way.

[BuaBS]

OP can you please fill me in on the disadvantages of renting? I have been doing just that for the last five years and see no downside.

OK. just a little or it gets to long to read it.

Financial:

Paying a landlord every month. After years of renting what is left? Nothing.

When you buy and sell, you still have something. You don't have to make a profit, you can even sell with a loss , but you still have something left.

Don't tell me about, putting your money away and pay the rent with the intrest you get.

BS! A moderate house , 2 or 3 millionB, is not going to pay for your monthly rent, certainly not at these rates! In Baht you can get what, 1,5% if you're lucky? Other currencies, 3-4%? And then the Baht revaluates, I'm not a doomthinker like the Brits who think the Baht is going to devaluate, so they don't get screwed with their weak pond.

Invest in the stockmarket ? yeah right!

Renting a house in Thailand? Have you seen how they build here?

Your own house will be build like you want it, the way you want it, with thick walls and insulated. When you rent, you're investing in somebody else's property, from the plants

in the garden to the paint in the house, and anything in between.(safe locks!)

Renting is easy to change locations, a argument in many posts here. If you're buying furniture, changing now and then , is not so easy. Great to have your new LCD TV in the

back of a truck on a pothole road!

Renting furnished houses, great, do you really want to live in somebody else's things?

In bed's and sofa's where somebody else has been sweating (and what ever...)?

In your own house, everything is clean, unused , from bathroom/toilet to yes again the furniture.

Read some post here on TV about the great landlords here, who don't seem to be around to give back your deposit, or go snooping in your things when you're out.

(not naming nationalities) . Never mind security.

Renting means often paying utilities through the landlord with an added bonus for him/her.

Shall I go on...

[chiang mai]

Lots of presumptions in your post Mr Newbie and probably not the best way to endear yourself to the forum!

Ok, so let's move on. Firstly, no I do no not own real estate because I divested myself of all assets in 2005 in anticipation of the current crisis - smack me that I called it early but I'm happy to be in cash, 100%. Secondly, my wife and I rent because that makes good economic sense in the current climate of falling asset prices and a very uncertain financial outlook globally. Of course if you are with the group that thinks the green shoots of recovery have been spotted, good for you and good luck also. If you seriously think there is a debate to be had about the merits of home ownership over renting, in the current climate, please have it with somebody else because you will not convince me and neither am I interested in entering the debate. As things stand currently, renting in Thailand versus any of the alternatives I have spotted in this or any other comparable country remains a sound solution, even with exchange rates at their current levels. But I suppose the bottom line on all of this is whether a person comes to Thailand to live and enjoy what it has to offer or whether they view it as a place solely to make money. Me, I'm in the camp of the former.

Ok first, sorry about the big font, it seemed a little small on 1920x1200 pix.

Keithlee & Chiang Mai: Don't say rent again! It may work for you, but it doesn't

for a lot of other people, just read the other posts!

You probably are just the two in your ivory tower on the land your wife owns.

BEENTHEREDONETHAT: I should have said SA or SEA, the America's or Africa no thanks.

Nicaragua: you've got to be kidding!

Fiddlehead: I never stated that I didn't like it here, but since the company way is nailed shut you have got to look elsewhere.

If I didn't care about anyones thoughts about this I wouldn't have started a post.

Every choice of country is in comparison with Thailand, so yes I find faults .

By the way are you renting too?

And yes, I 've read the other posts, still reading actually, cause there are recent ones.

[BuaBS]

You seem to have dismissed Thailand for it's BS laws on land ownership and then go on to dismiss all the regional alternatives, including the one where you can own land, based on anything that you don't like about the places. Have you actually been to any of these places to see for yourself or do you base your plans on what you read in the newspapers or get from one of the resident bar experts?

The only real suggestion I have is that you, having rejected every country in the region, perhaps ought to think about returning from whence you came as it appears the rest of the world doesn't make the grade.

First good answer.

Yes I have been in most of those countries.

Haven't dismissed Malaysia yet! Because it is to closest to Thailand you can get looking at infrastructure,...

And no I don't go to bars, not even to listen to the resident bar experts.

If returning to that grey cold sh@t hole country of mine was an option I wouldn't have started this post.

When I came here 2 years ago, to live, the company way was still the way to go.

Why didn't I buy back then? It's a big country, choosing where to live in one of the 74

Changwats is not easy, finding the right piece of land even more difficult.

About the Phillipines: Yes lots of islands, but do you really want to be isolated on an island?

[BuaBS]

Lots of presumptions in your post Mr Newbie and probably not the best way to endear yourself to the forum!

Ok, so let's move on. Firstly, no I do no not own real estate because I divested myself of all assets in 2005 in anticipation of the current crisis - smack me that I called it early but I'm happy to be in cash, 100%. Secondly, my wife and I rent because that makes good economic sense in the current climate of falling asset prices and a very uncertain financial outlook globally. Of course if you are with the group that thinks the green shoots of recovery have been spotted, good for you and good luck also. If you seriously think there is a debate to be had about the merits of home ownership over renting, in the current climate, please have it with somebody else because you will not convince me and neither am I interested in entering the debate. As things stand currently, renting in Thailand versus any of the alternatives I have spotted in this or any other comparable country remains a sound solution, even with exchange rates at their current levels. But I suppose the bottom line on all of this is whether a person comes to Thailand to live and enjoy what it has to offer or whether they view it as a place solely to make money. Me, I'm in the camp of the former.

.

Hey I'm in CM too! (pretty hot here)

I may be a newbe posting on TV, but been reading it for 3 years.

Presumptions , I wonder where I got those from?

I didn't realize TV was a popularity contest.

I am not in Thailand to make money! Just not to lose too much...

"Current climate of falling asset prices and a very uncertain financial outlook globally?"

Owning property is the best thing now, as it has always been! You people on TV are far too gloomy, watching too much negative news on CNN/BBCworld?

" I divested myself of all assets in 2005 in anticipation of the current crisis".

4 years ago you anticipated the crisis, I'm impressed.... if I believed you...!

"neither am I interested in entering the debate", so why answer?

In the past ask anybody, and you hear owning is the way to go, except for landlords.

Now everybody seemed to have changed opinion, and keeps shouting RENT !

Weird!

I started this post not to get opinions about rent or owning.

Reading other posts , there are many like me who like to (semi) own.

That's why many of these posts keep popping up.

[MrHammer]

Nicaraguan citizenship will cost you $16,000.

It takes only 13-15 days to obtain Nicaragua citizenship including filing in the Immigration Registry. Documents delivery takes 2-3 working days.

Now if you book a flight tomorrow.....

Thats awesome! Thanks for letting me know, seriously! But can you change name whle you are at it?

[MrHammer]

Whats wrong with central america bu the way?

You have great climate, beaches, friendly locals, hot chicas, beer, weed (if thats your thing), cocaine, cheap living and futebol!

It is more dangerous, but not to much so if you stay away from Brazil and Bolivia.

I have heard great things about Colombia, but also Costa Rica and even Panama.

When I finish my education I am off to latin america for sure, at least for vacation.

[mhatami]

Nicaraguan citizenship will cost you $16,000.

It takes only 13-15 days to obtain Nicaragua citizenship including filing in the Immigration Registry. Documents delivery takes 2-3 working days.

Now if you book a flight tomorrow.....

Wooo, only 16000 to get citizenship, then Taxin is a cheap bustard

[G54]

What is it with land ownership? Why is it so important? You grew up during the Vietnam war so you are 50+ ? You have 30 years left? Less? On this planet.

What are you going to do with the land when you are gone?

But land ownership in SEA seems dubious at the best of times.

You make it sound as if you do not have a fortune stashed away but have too many limitations on where you want to live. Have too many objections for this and that.

You do not like to rent a condo. Noise. Crap neighbours. Walls too thin.

You want to live in a mansion? Razor wire to keep the 'infidels' out? No? I didn't think so, seriously.

Now for the slap me punch me bit

Then do as many of the rest of us do, get a house to erm.... rent?

Ouch!! That kick hurt!!

[monkfish]

Thought about this question myself.

One of the countries on my list is Argentina?

You can own Land, it is a lot lot lot cheaper than Thailand also has great wine.

Would have to look into it more but check it out as i will be in the near future.

[BuaBS]

What is it with land ownership? Why is it so important? You grew up during the Vietnam war so you are 50+ ? You have 30 years left? Less? On this planet.

What are you going to do with the land when you are gone?

But land ownership in SEA seems dubious at the best of times.

You make it sound as if you do not have a fortune stashed away but have too many limitations on where you want to live. Have too many objections for this and that.

You do not like to rent a condo. Noise. Crap neighbours. Walls too thin.

You want to live in a mansion? Razor wire to keep the 'infidels' out? No? I didn't think so, seriously.

Now for the slap me punch me bit

Then do as many of the rest of us do, get a house to erm.... rent?

Ouch!! That kick hurt!!

"You want to live in a mansion?"

"But land ownership in SEA seems dubious at the best of times."

Have you seen what kind of houses farang have here? Take a look at some posts on TV,

or on the Coolthaihouse site. Ownership (via the wife or company) seems to be working pretty well for all of them!

A modest well build house on 2 rai is enough for me.

"What are you going to do with the land when you are gone?"

Can you be certain where you'll be in 10 or 20 years?

The land and house can be used or sold by my remaining family.

"Then do as many of the rest of us do, get a house to erm.... rent?"

Great if renting does it for you, it doesn't mean I have to or want to.

[bonobo]

It seems to me that the OP has casually dismissed just about everywhere. Why, for example, would having lived through the Vietnam War era preclude living there now?  I have spent quite a bit of time in both Japan and Europe despite WWII and never had a second thought about it.  Heck, I even managed to live in Virginia despite my home being adjacent to a major battlefield in the Civil War.  

But to get on post, I think more and more people are going to be considering Cambodia.  I have a freind who will retire from the Marines in a ocuple years, and he had been planning to retire to Jomtien.  However, he wants to have a small investment firm, and after a trip to Cambidia last january, he is relaly starting to consider that.  He wants a small beach home, which he can get there, and he wants to open a business, which he can do there.

And having gone to meet him there, all I can say is Cambodia has changed quite a bit over the last 5 years.  I have to admit I am more addicted to the trappings of modern life.  I like going to a gym, seeing the latest movies, having a supermarket where I can get most of waht I want, and the like, and Cambodia is rapidly approaching that capability.  It is still a little raw for my tastes, but my friend loves it.

He was dead set on retiring to Jomtien, but now Cambodia and the central Philppines are really becoming an option for him.

[notasexpat]

Dominican republic.

I know a couple people who own land near a very small beach resort community. 3-4hotels, 1 small city, most people live in the moutain with big land. Roads to hospitals are a little long but very nice (not concrete crap)

Internet is good, life is good, crime is lowish and the locals actualy want you to be there and own land and give them small jobs on renovations and other craps.

Also u can own an Haitian slave. Threat him nice and give him 25$ a month(+beer) he'll love you.

Same corruption as here xcept they dont have a preference for white or locals.

[surface]

So what do you think is a solution and alternative to the BS laws of owning land in LOS?

I can't believe I read all that whining. It took you that long to get to the point because you thought we wanted to know about your inane reasons for being poor yet picky? How old are you?

This should (hopefully) fit into your budget and land ownership requirements. Enjoy.

[chiang mai]

I have a sneaky feeling the OP may well be an impoverished real estate sales man who is trying to talk up the market, bit like pushing water up hill I reckon.

[Livinginexile]

You can't own land in Thailand and that is that.

And nor can you own it in any other neighbouring country either.

So you don't want to rent nor live in a condo...

There is only one answer to your question my friend.

Go home and retire in whatever shithole you come from

It really is very simple.

[BuaBS]

Oh yeah renting is so much better:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Month-s-Rent...ts-t258930.html

How many times has this been on TV?

I am not an impoverished real estate sales man.

Where does it say I'm poor? I am picky and practical.

And I am below 50.

I guess I was trying to get confirmation of my experiences and presumptions of living

and owning in the mentioned countries.

Or just hoping a bright mind could bring on a new solution in circumventing the land

ownership law, just like some-one did years ago with the company way.

No such luck here , with a bunch of bitching old farts on TV.

Yes attacking persons is easy, even I can do it !

[teacup]

okok...don't give up yet,...mr BS

How about Indonesia?

I have heard you can lease 90 yrs from the government.....LAND that is

The deal is that......do the normal purchase transaction, but when recording it, the gov't will produce the lease paper for you at the land department

The lease will be transferable to the next foriegn buyer, .....only if the next buyer is indonesian, then the gov't will issue the real ownership of title

go and check it out

Edited April 21, 2009 by teacup

[PhilHarries]

You can't own land in Thailand and that is that.

And nor can you own it in any other neighbouring country either.

Obviously geography was one of your daydream subjects at school.

Hint : Google "Malaysia My 2nd Home" or MM2H if you're lazy.

You could also look at a map of sout east Asia and look up "neighbouring" in the dictionary.