Alternative Countries To Retire To 2 :owning Land!

[Livinginexile]

You can't own land in Thailand and that is that.

And nor can you own it in any other neighbouring country either.

Obviously geography was one of your daydream subjects at school.

Hint : Google "Malaysia My 2nd Home" or MM2H if you're lazy.

You could also look at a map of sout east Asia and look up "neighbouring" in the dictionary.

Oh no...another school teacher!

Beg your pardon sir and I stand corrected. I did not realise one could own land in Malaysia.

Could you please tell me some other countries one can buy and own land sir? anywhere in SEA will do.

Sorry for the spelling mistake sir.

[Neeranam]

You can't own land in Thailand and that is that.

And nor can you own it in any other neighbouring country either.

Obviously geography was one of your daydream subjects at school.

Hint : Google "Malaysia My 2nd Home" or MM2H if you're lazy.

You could also look at a map of sout east Asia and look up "neighbouring" in the dictionary.

Americans don't learn Geography at school - so I was told.

[JR Texas]

You can't own land in Thailand and that is that.

And nor can you own it in any other neighbouring country either.

Obviously geography was one of your daydream subjects at school.

Hint : Google "Malaysia My 2nd Home" or MM2H if you're lazy.

You could also look at a map of sout east Asia and look up "neighbouring" in the dictionary.

Americans don't learn Geography at school - so I was told.

There are several countries in S. America that allow you to purchase property: Argentina, Paraguay, Brazil, Uruguay.

Whether or not that means "own land" is something I do not know for sure (but do think it is possible in Uruguay).

In S.E. Asia you might want to try Cambodia. You can't "own land" but you can "secure it for decades."

Obviously, you should use a good lawyer.

Do some research and let us know what you discover.

[BuaBS]

"Owning"land in Indonesia, is not much different then Thailand 10 years ago:

http://okusi.net/garydean/works/landlaw.html

"nominee arrangement" aka the thai wife in LOS or

"Indonesian incorporated company" sounds pretty familiar to me.

MM2H: did anybody read the financial requirement?

"Applicants aged below 50 years are required to show proof of liquid assets worth a minimum of RM500,000 and offshore income of RM10,000 per month. Applicants aged 50 and above may comply with the financial proof of RM350,000 in liquid assets and off shore income of RM10,000 per month. For those who have retired, they are required to show proof of receiving pension from government approved funds of RM 10,000 per month."

That is 100.000 B a month!

[doggie888888]

the smaller cities and towns in malaysia are fairly low cost. some are even idylic (rustic) in their rural setting. they are moderate muslims and really quite friendly (albeit a litle shy). i guess it's rare that anyone finds one destination that fulfils all requirements, so it depends on your personal criteria.

[torrenova]

If the OP really thinks 60k a month is big money (hiw words, not mine) then he ain't been to LOS recently or tried to live here on that.

Out of control prices in Europe ? what about out of control prices in LOS ?

I think the OP should go to some real shithole where Bt60k is a king like income.

[dave9988]

So the reason you guys are so adamant about owning land is because you are afraid of being tossed from a window if you buy a condo?

[chiang mai]

It's true that some people have had problems getting their security deposit returned when their lease/rental contract expires, but on the other hand, there are plenty of people for whom the rental deposit return process has been problem free, dare I say, gulp. my self included. I'm sure that on TV we have seen stories about the full range of problems that people can experience when renting but I would not let those things alone sway your judgment. From my perspective the problem with real estate purchase at present has more to do with falling asset prices and an unwillingness to catch a falling knife. In Phuket at present there is plenty of evidence that property values are falling and that rents are doing the same - indeed I have just negotiated a twenty percent reduction off my rental costs as have two of my neighbors, further evidence exists amongst friend who rent on other parts of the island where the number of sale properties is increasing substantially, their prices are being reduced over time and the length of time on the market is growing. So once again, for me personally, I can see no logic behind buying real estate at present because it does not make sound financial sense. Perhaps when the Baht has devalued somewhat that picture will change.

When it comes to buying real estate in Thailand I am aware of at least one very upmarket organization in Laguna that uses offshore share ownership to accomplish this although I am not sure whether this approach has been legal tested or what the Thai governments view is on it. In effect that system allows the buyer to own shares in an offshore company that owns the land and buildings in Thailand - perhaps others can shed more light on the detailed mechanics.

As for other countries: I believe it's already been stated that Malaysia's second home program is the only one in the region that makes sense from a risk standpoint, I'm not aware of any others.

Oh yeah renting is so much better:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Month-s-Rent...ts-t258930.html

How many times has this been on TV?

I am not an impoverished real estate sales man.

Where does it say I'm poor? I am picky and practical.

And I am below 50.

I guess I was trying to get confirmation of my experiences and presumptions of living

and owning in the mentioned countries.

Or just hoping a bright mind could bring on a new solution in circumventing the land

ownership law, just like some-one did years ago with the company way.

No such luck here , with a bunch of bitching old farts on TV.

Yes attacking persons is easy, even I can do it !

[BuaBS]

If the OP really thinks 60k a month is big money (hiw words, not mine) then he ain't been to LOS recently or tried to live here on that.

Out of control prices in Europe ? what about out of control prices in LOS ?

I think the OP should go to some real shithole where Bt60k is a king like income.

With the majority of Thais on 10K B/month?

Let's have a show of hands for all the retiries with less than 60K.

I am in Thailand, prices are going up, but not out of control.

In july last year when diesel was 46B, prices were going up, since then a steady decline to before the oil peak.

I could say how much I spend here, but you wouldn't believe me.

If you can't get by with 60 K, you're either feeding a big family or can't get enough of the BG's.

[chiang mai]

Yes , there have been many recent posts on this subject, but when you read them , it boils down to :

Which neighboring country you can get the cheapest bier, cheap young bargirls and watching football.

Don't get me wrong, I love Thailand. It is the best compromise in the world when it comes to living standard, cost of living, infrastructure (roads!), shopping, security, medical aid, fairly nice people, and law(lessness).

This is not a post for working farang here, or big income Americans, (why come here when you have Hawaii, Guam, Puerto Rico, Florida,...) nor the Aussies who always rave about their country in every post. (you can live nicely in northern Australia)

Not for the big income (60.000B or more) Brits /Scandinavians and Germans, who can retire in Spain or Greece where they can still afford the out of control prices since joining the EU and the eastern European/Russian invasion.

A lot of people like me, who come to Thailand to retire on a modest income, have their dreams shattered, by the impossibility of owning land through a company.

Leasing is full of holes like Swiss cheese, and the ones who are not willing to marry and /or trust their wife/gf/(ex)?hooker with the title deed of the land they are building and living on, have no chance either.

To the people in other recent posts in their ivory tower ( on land they have through a company, or which they might get thrown off when the wife/gf doesn't need/want them anymore because she has a new boyfriend), shouting RENT RENT!! There is no better time to buy than now , it is a buyers market.

Wait another 2 years for commodities , building material and transport costs to go over the roof again?

Renting has so many disadvantages, few advantages.

And for all the sex-residents, it doesn't matter where they live as long as they have access to p#ssy.

Forget about the colored shirt-people, in a couple of months it will be a bad memory, forget about recession in Thailand, I haven't seen it. And so what if there are a couple of million tourists less than the 12 million.

They'll be back for sure.

Buying a condo?? NO thanks. Do I want to lock myself up in 65 qm , with noisy neighbors through a 7 cm concrete brick wall? Even renting would be better or returning to my own country.(thicker walls!)

SO finally the question: What is an alternative country for retiring on a piece of land that I can (semi) own? I know it has been asked in other posts too, but no real good answers.

Laos/ Cambodia? forget it! No infrastructure, a life is even less worth than here in LOS. Full of landmines. Unsafe. Shopping sucks.

Myanmar? Yeah right!

Vietnam? Do I want to see dogs in a can or as mystery meat? Grew up with the Vietnam war.

Philippines? To small, too many people , typhoons, guerilla war in the south.

What's left: 2 Islamic states: Malaysia : more expensive but they have a retirement scheme.

Indonesia: Java ?? Maybe? Sumatra dangerous, Bali too small

Borneo Malaysian or Indonesian side, nothing but jungle/plantations

Sri lanka ? too small, unfriendly weird people, Tamils war...

Southern India, the Goa area?

So what do you think is a solution and alternative to the BS laws of owning land in LOS?

Oh! Thanks for the long read!

Edited April 21, 2009 by chiang mai

[fiddlehead]

Saw this on another forum once and thought it fit the OP quite well:

A man approached the rabbi of the town to which he was moving.

He said, "Sir, what are the people like in this town?"

The Rabbi replied "What were they like where you come from?"

He said, “Rabbi, the people from my old village were foolish and petty, unkind and unfriendly. ”

The Rabbi responded “I guess that you will probably find the people here to be much the same.”

Later that day, another man from a different town came to the same rabbi and asked,

Rabbi, "what are the people like in this town?"

Ok, the Rabbi had heard this before so, once again he said, "Well, what were they like where you come from?"

The stranger replied, “Rabbi, I come from a town of wonderful caring people, people who study and perform Mitzvot. ”

The rabbi responded, “I guess that you will probably find the people here to be much the same.”

Sorry sir, but unless you change your attitude, I really think you'll never find what you are searching for.

Welcome to the forum.

[russianrobert]

Check out Panama. If i wasn't so hooked on Thailand i would be off tomorrow.........................

[BuaBS]

It's true that some people have had problems getting their security deposit returned when their lease/rental contract expires, but on the other hand, there are plenty of people for whom the rental deposit return process has been problem free, dare I say, gulp. my self included. I'm sure that on TV we have seen stories about the full range of problems that people can experience when renting but I would not let those things alone sway your judgment. From my perspective the problem with real estate purchase at present has more to do with falling asset prices and an unwillingness to catch a falling knife. In Phuket at present there is plenty of evidence that property values are falling and that rents are doing the same - indeed I have just negotiated a twenty percent reduction off my rental costs as have two of my neighbors, further evidence exists amongst friend who rent on other parts of the island where the number of sale properties is increasing substantially, their prices are being reduced over time and the length of time on the market is growing. So once again, for me personally, I can see no logic behind buying real estate at present because it does not make sound financial sense. Perhaps when the Baht has devalued somewhat that picture will change.

When it comes to buying real estate in Thailand I am aware of at least one very upmarket organization in Laguna that uses offshore share ownership to accomplish this although I am not sure whether this approach has been legal tested or what the Thai governments view is on it. In effect that system allows the buyer to own shares in an offshore company that owns the land and buildings in Thailand - perhaps others can shed more light on the detailed mechanics.

As for other countries: I believe it's already been stated that Malaysia's second home program is the only one in the region that makes sense from a risk standpoint, I'm not aware of any others.

Mr christal ball: I thought you said in post 14 you 're not here to make money.

Why so afraid of falling asset prices. It is only when you sell that you might worry, and

that will be years from now.

What , better wait to buy when property is going through the roof?

That is sound financial advice!

If you buy a piece of land now , build a house, who cares that real estate prices are falling. In a couple of years they be skyhigh again. And even then, I don't care, I'm like you say you are: living and enjoying Thailand, not to make a profit on selling my house.

Why are property values are falling Phuket? Because they were way too high because of the demand and speculators. Now with the crisis demand is low, prices fall, basic economics!

The only way to rent that is financialy quite good is the way post 12 (fiddlehead) does it.

I get the logic, no faith in Thailand, but owning in his own country, using the rent he

receives to pay the landlord here, so renting for free. And when he wants to leave and go back, his house /condo will be there for him.

Just many don't have property back home , or sold it to retire here...

And what about the money you spend on the rented house?

If you want you own fruit trees, palms in the garden, take 'em with you?

oh yeah renting is the way to go...

Edited April 21, 2009 by BuaBS

[BuaBS]

Yes , there have been many recent posts on this subject, but when you read them , it boils down to :

Which neighboring country you can get the cheapest bier, cheap young bargirls and watching football.

Oh! Thanks for the long read!

So why didn't you change the font size?

[fiddlehead]

The only way to rent that is financialy quite good is the way post 12 (fiddlehead) does it.

I get the logic, no faith in Thailand, but owning in his own country, using the rent he

receives to pay the landlord here, so renting for free.

Now, that is not all i said in that post 12.

Yes, i rent here in Thailand although we are looking for land. (I trust my wife but would put it in my kid's name anyway)

I own a house in the US and rent it out, I use the income from that which more than pays my rent here.

The only problem with all of that is: I pay real estate and school taxes back in the states, yet have to pay a hefty amount to send my kid to a decent school here.

Please don't say I have no faith in Thailand. We are looking for land and hope to buy here also.

You sure seem to want to make enemies here on your first day and a half on Thai Visa.

[BuaBS]

Saw this on another forum once and thought it fit the OP quite well:

Sorry sir, but unless you change your attitude, I really think you'll never find what you are searching for.

Welcome to the forum.

I found what I was looking for, just too late to capitalize on it.

[BuaBS]

The only way to rent that is financialy quite good is the way post 12 (fiddlehead) does it.

I get the logic, no faith in Thailand, but owning in his own country, using the rent he

receives to pay the landlord here, so renting for free.

Now, that is not all i said in that post 12.

Yes, i rent here in Thailand although we are looking for land. (I trust my wife but would put it in my kid's name anyway)

I own a house in the US and rent it out, I use the income from that which more than pays my rent here.

The only problem with all of that is: I pay real estate and school taxes back in the states, yet have to pay a hefty amount to send my kid to a decent school here.

Please don't say I have no faith in Thailand. We are looking for land and hope to buy here also.

You sure seem to want to make enemies here on your first day and a half on Thai Visa.

So you're going against the majority here that say rent don't buy?

But they are not picking on you...

At leased you're smart enough to put it on your kids name, that at least buys you time, untill they are 18...

Edited April 21, 2009 by BuaBS

[lazygourmet]

Whats wrong with central america bu the way?

You have great climate, beaches, friendly locals, hot chicas, beer, weed (if thats your thing), cocaine, cheap living and futebol!

It is more dangerous, but not to much so if you stay away from Brazil and Bolivia.

I have heard great things about Colombia, but also Costa Rica and even Panama.

When I finish my education I am off to latin america for sure, at least for vacation.

And grade A coca!

Carthagena, Colombia is a place I will retire if I am not be able to afford Ramatuelle, France.

[fiddlehead]

So you're going against the majority here that say rent don't buy?

But they are not picking on you...

At leased you're smart enough to put it on your kids name, that at least buys you time, untill they are 18...

You and i look at life so differently.

I don't care about what the majority says or thinks, I do what i feel is best for my family.

I believe teaching my son to grow a garden, some fruit trees, a bit about nature, and watch the magic of it all is all part of an education to make him a more rounded person.

As well as paying off something that he can call his own someday.

We don't plan on buying something for it's resale value.

More like a get-away place that feels comfortable for us.

I do not dislike or mistrust Thai people and don't look at life like it's me against them.

You on the other hand seem to be looking for a way to make money off of buying and selling land.

There are a lot of people like you. I'm not one of them.

I get this feeling that the economic mess is the way it is cause of people that think like you do.

Sorry if i'm wrong about that but too many of your comments just rub me the wrong way like you're trying to pull something over on the natives or something.

I think they are doing a smart thing by not allowing foreigners to own land.

Protects their culture for one thing, which they are quite proud of.

Do you know that the Arabs bought the Chrysler building last year? (maybe they'll turn around and sell it to the Iranians?)

(i am assuming you are an American from some of the things you say)

How do you feel about that? (Chrysler building)

[chiang mai]

I don't have much more time to play tonight but just a few answers:

1) I'm not here to make money, at age 60 I'm in full and happy retirement but that doesn't mean to say I am careless with the money I have saved - I enjoy a decent standard of living and I mean to ensure things remain that way thus I am prudent and don't do too many reckless things.

2) Could never see the point of buying at the top when maybe, perhaps, I may have to sell at the bottom through unforseen circumstances!

3) Some people have the view that the financial environment globally will return to "business as usual" or, the same way as it was before, as soon as the current crisis ends - I don't share that view and don't believe that future price increased in real estate are given.

4) My income from low risk investments more than covers my rent and living expenses except my investments are not in Thailand - that's cost effective and low risk and in keeping with my exit from the real estate market four years ago (really). Does that mean I don't have faith in Thailand's economic future or its stability, of course it means exactly that. Do all those things mean that I don't enjoy Thailand and am not happy to live here indefinitely, of course not. It's just that I've got over the mental hurdle of feeling like I must own the house I live in.

5) Of course Phuket is a bubble, just like the UK, USA etc but unlike Chiang Mai where prices are reasonable.

6) I'd love to learn some economic lesson from you, I'm always willing to learn - but from what you've posted thus far there is little chance that's going to happen!

It's true that some people have had problems getting their security deposit returned when their lease/rental contract expires, but on the other hand, there are plenty of people for whom the rental deposit return process has been problem free, dare I say, gulp. my self included. I'm sure that on TV we have seen stories about the full range of problems that people can experience when renting but I would not let those things alone sway your judgment. From my perspective the problem with real estate purchase at present has more to do with falling asset prices and an unwillingness to catch a falling knife. In Phuket at present there is plenty of evidence that property values are falling and that rents are doing the same - indeed I have just negotiated a twenty percent reduction off my rental costs as have two of my neighbors, further evidence exists amongst friend who rent on other parts of the island where the number of sale properties is increasing substantially, their prices are being reduced over time and the length of time on the market is growing. So once again, for me personally, I can see no logic behind buying real estate at present because it does not make sound financial sense. Perhaps when the Baht has devalued somewhat that picture will change.

When it comes to buying real estate in Thailand I am aware of at least one very upmarket organization in Laguna that uses offshore share ownership to accomplish this although I am not sure whether this approach has been legal tested or what the Thai governments view is on it. In effect that system allows the buyer to own shares in an offshore company that owns the land and buildings in Thailand - perhaps others can shed more light on the detailed mechanics.

As for other countries: I believe it's already been stated that Malaysia's second home program is the only one in the region that makes sense from a risk standpoint, I'm not aware of any others.

Mr christal ball: I thought you said in post 14 you 're not here to make money.

Why so afraid of falling asset prices. It is only when you sell that you might worry, and

that will be years from now.

What , better wait to buy when property is going through the roof?

That is sound financial advice!

If you buy a piece of land now , build a house, who cares that real estate prices are falling. In a couple of years they be skyhigh again. And even then, I don't care, I'm like you say you are: living and enjoying Thailand, not to make a profit on selling my house.

Why are property values are falling Phuket? Because they were way too high because of the demand and speculators. Now with the crisis demand is low, prices fall, basic economics!

The only way to rent that is financialy quite good is the way post 12 (fiddlehead) does it.

I get the logic, no faith in Thailand, but owning in his own country, using the rent he

receives to pay the landlord here, so renting for free. And when he wants to leave and go back, his house /condo will be there for him.

Just many don't have property back home , or sold it to retire here...

And what about the money you spend on the rented house?

If you want you own fruit trees, palms in the garden, take 'em with you?

oh yeah renting is the way to go...

[BuaBS]

So you're going against the majority here that say rent don't buy?

But they are not picking on you...

At leased you're smart enough to put it on your kids name, that at least buys you time, untill they are 18...

You and i look at life so differently.

I don't care about what the majority says or thinks, I do what i feel is best for my family.

I believe teaching my son to grow a garden, some fruit trees, a bit about nature, and watch the magic of it all is all part of an education to make him a more rounded person.

As well as paying off something that he can call his own someday.

We don't plan on buying something for it's resale value.

More like a get-away place that feels comfortable for us.

I do not dislike or mistrust Thai people and don't look at life like it's me against them.

You on the other hand seem to be looking for a way to make money off of buying and selling land.

There are a lot of people like you. I'm not one of them.

I get this feeling that the economic mess is the way it is cause of people that think like you do.

Sorry if i'm wrong about that but too many of your comments just rub me the wrong way like you're trying to pull something over on the natives or something.

I think they are doing a smart thing by not allowing foreigners to own land.

Protects their culture for one thing, which they are quite proud of.

Do you know that the Arabs bought the Chrysler building last year? (maybe they'll turn around and sell it to the Iranians?)

(i am assuming you are an American from some of the things you say)

How do you feel about that? (Chrysler building)

My god, you so wrong! Did you read my post?

I do not dislike Thai people and don't look at life like it's me against them.

Trusting one of them with the title deed , ok you've got me there.

"You on the other hand seem to be looking for a way to make money off of buying and selling land. "

Where the h@ll did you get that from? I am NOT here to buy and sell , make a profit.

All I want is a modest house with a nice garden, and somewhere in the future when

for what ever reason, I want to move or go back, sell it even with a loss, it doesn't

matter to me, I don't care, because all those years I have enjoyed the house and garden

the climate, the people,....Thailand.

I have nothing to do with the economic crisis.. and guess what, I not even American!

If you can't see this throught what I'm writing and the grammar I use ,....Enghish is not even my language...then you're st..... no I'm not going to start to call names.

"trying to pull something over on the natives ?? "

Where did you get that from? What can I pull over the natives? Thais are in many ways

superior to us . I admire them.

About the landowning AGAIN: ok for me , no land owning farangs, but at least let us

have the illusion of owning land through a company!

About Chrysler, who cares, I certainly don't!

I think you're just yanking my chain... and I fall for it.

Edited April 21, 2009 by BuaBS