Self-exiled Australian Dies In Immigration Detention Center

[webfact]

excerpt from the Nation article

he spokesman declined to reveal the cause of death.

If it was a natural cause of death it may have been made public immediately!

Something may have happened during "forced deportation"?

[Mario2008]

What does human rights have to do with it? The guy didn't want to leave himself. It is tragic that one chooses to live this way and dies in costudy. But the choise was his.

[meelousee]

Poor guy, I hope he comes back as a pigeon and makes a home at Immagration. and POPO alot

[harrry]

Well, why didn't he just go to Australia, serve out any remaining time, and THEN just apply for a passport.

He had allready servedthe 2 years he was given before he was transferred to immigraton for deportation. He waitd 4 years for that. At last his wait is over. Congratulations Australia.

[connel707]

How does someone want to stay voluntarily in the IDC? It is considered more worse than Bang Kwan prison (The big tiger).

If this guy was not insane there was something he might wanted to hide... otherwise I can't see any logical explanation for his "wish" to stay.

last question - how can an Embassy allow a countryman rot in that 5hithole for over 5 years?

something wrong here?

I have to say I agree 100% with Colin Hansch, I would much rather stay in Soy Suanpluu, than return to Melbourne, and typical of the Aussie government to turn the other way when someone needs help.. RIP Colin...

[sassienie]

The facts of this case are blatantly obvious.

The guy had no passport which means he had been staying in Thailand illegally with no visa.

He preferred not to return to Australia because he would had been returning back to nothing, with nothing, leaving behind his home, friends and any assets he had accumulated over his 30 years in Thailand.

Australia would not issue him with a passport because he had broken the laws of Thailand, had not enough money to stay here legally otherwise the guy would have had a visa. Visa runs that used to cater for these dregs are becoming more difficult, so for many this method is no longer an option.

Why should his home country issue him with a passport and aid him breaking immigration laws in other countries.

My sympathy level for this guy is minus 10.

[paulbrun]

The next question is what will they do with him now..? Will he be given a funeral locally, or will they repatriate his body..? Very sad story whatever the case.

[harrry]

The facts of this case are blatantly obvious.

The guy had no passport which means he had been staying in Thailand illegally with no visa.

He preferred not to return to Australia because he would had been returning back to nothing, with nothing, leaving behind his home, friends and any assets he had accumulated over his 30 years in Thailand.

Australia would not issue him with a passport because he had broken the laws of Thailand, had not enough money to stay here legally otherwise the guy would have had a visa. Visa runs that used to cater for these dregs are becoming more difficult, so for many this method is no longer an option.

Why should his home country issue him with a passport and aid him breaking immigration laws in other countries.

My sympathy level for this guy is minus 10.

Read the original stories. THe person had had a work permit as he was working in a responsible position with an international country.

Visas that run out when in jail automaically turn you into a person with no visa,

Nothng in Australian law precludes a person from recieving a passport because he has been convicted of an offence either in Thailand or Overseas. THis maythough affectwhether another country accepts him.

[dogblower]

How does someone want to stay voluntarily in the IDC? It is considered more worse than Bang Kwan prison (The big tiger).

If this guy was not insane there was something he might wanted to hide... otherwise I can't see any logical explanation for his "wish" to stay.

last question - how can an Embassy allow a countryman rot in that 5hithole for over 5 years?

something wrong here?

I have to say I agree 100% with Colin Hansch, I would much rather stay in Soy Suanpluu, than return to Melbourne, and typical of the Aussie government to turn the other way when someone needs help.. RIP Colin...

Are you people reading different articles to me? Where did the Australian government turn the other way when help was needed? Consular support was provided while he was in jail and later in Immigration detention. He was offered repatriation to Australia and declined it. What else were they supposed to do? Inform Thailand that they must change their immigration laws? I don't know why he could not be given a passport, but Thai law says he must return directly to Australia. If he didn't want to go what else could have been done? I'm sorry he died while in custody but it appears to have been his choice to remain in custody.

[A_MIKE_U_LIKE]

Home is where you lay your hat ..Find your Heart at .But you should never forget your roots <<<< I,m going to get that printed on a tee shirt ....Who Knows maybe he found enlightenment in the place he loves most ...My condolences go out to him and his family ..He obvisously had people who cared about him maybe if he had of realised sooner things could of been different ...Peace

[plaaduk]

A full passport shold have been issued by the Australian Government if all conditios for a passport have been met There is no indication they were not. THe officials claim they offered him a one way travel document. Why didn't they do their job and issue him a passportl

Just maybe his a reason not to want to go back as such was an arrest warrant waiting for him there, hence no passport being offered,,.or maybe he was mad,surely you would have to be a little crazy to prefer a thai prison to the aussie one,.

You are getting closer to the reason!

Someone posted some background information which further puts more light to the case such as:-

For 12 years Mr Hansch worked as a computer engineer for a US firm in Thailand. He has also worked as a computer engineer in the US and at the former Woomera defence site in South Australia.

If you have worked at a defence site, you are likely to have access to classified information. If you are also a computer engineer for a US firm, it is also likely that firm also engages in classified work.

Hence, Downunder, they may want him for debriefing whether he has in his work spilled the beans on his past work.Hence, the refusal to issue him a new passport!

The US Govt. ,through "private contractors", who may be retired CIA employees, still keep track of computer engineers who have worked in

sensitive areas in US. Govt. agencies and who may now be resident abroad and have acquired a foreign citizenship. They are still of interest to the US Govt.Such procedure apply to all countries!

[imaneggspurt]

Is Australia really THAT bad !

"The world is a mirror", "live and let live", someone must have loved him and waited for him to return.

Sad for them he didnt see a more enlightened view of life. His choice.

We do have "hermits" here, even rich as all getout but prefer to live in "difficult" conditions maybe worse than Thai prisons.

Each to their own and as you said, home is where I hang my hat.

They dont make international news like this poor chap.

No Oz isnt that bad --- imaneggspurt.

My wife returns from a holiday in L.O.S. this weekend, says she missed me the most ---then followed by the good Aussie weather.

I said I missed her the most --- followed by her good Thai cooking.

She cant wait to get back here, maybe she has acclimatised to this lucky country in more ways than one.

My comment was tongue in cheek, im sure its not the country that was the problem here,.

[Old Croc]

Good post dogblower.

Where does it say the Oz embassy refused to help. He could have been back in Australia in days if he had co-operated. He couldn't meet the documentary requirements for a full passport so the alternative was a temporary version which allows travel back home where documentation can be obtained and a passport issued. Of course he may have had to work for a while to get the money to travel again.

Presumably all posters here have/had a passport and must know what you have to provide in the way of ID to obtain it. He couldn't obtain that documentation in his situation. This guy didn't have a current PP and god only knows how long he's been thats been the case.

He served a lengthy prison sentence for what must have been a vicious assault against a bargirl and subsequently refused any assistance to get him out of his situation. No doubt Thailand would have forcibly deported him eventually, with help from the Oz embassy, but as we know nothing happens in a hurry in the Thai judicial system.

The guy chose to live his life in a certain way and, from reports above, chose to end it. RIP

There's probably many reasons to heap shit on Australia and their governments, but this case is not one of them.

[ThaisGood]

I like this guy. I like his spirit. Call him eccentric, crazy, wild or whatever. I like him. May he rest in peace.

[tourleadersi]

Does seem very illogical that he would decline the temporary passport and get out of the IDC. Maybe he didnt have anything to return to in Australia, but he could have returned to a country where he would have been able to get some work, saved up, got a new passport and then returned to the countries that he wanted too. Sounds more like someone who has just thrown in the towel with life.

He had the opportunity for an out. I am also confident that if the Australian Embassy believed him to be mentally unwell, then they would have taken action to assist forcefully. As it is, he chose to stay where he was and he has now moved on permanently. I dont fell sympathy for a man who has passed away living a life that he chose, in fact we should almost feel envy. He sounds like a free spirit who was controlled by no one but himself. I dont know the circumstances of the GBH charge, so will not pass judgement on his character regarding that.

Whatever happened in his bizarre world, I hope he is resting in peace. Perhaps if he embraced the local religion here he is currently declining reincarnation until they offer him at least international playboy status? I would like to think he is.

[PhilHarries]

You are getting closer to the reason!

Someone posted some background information which further puts more light to the case such as:-

For 12 years Mr Hansch worked as a computer engineer for a US firm in Thailand. He has also worked as a computer engineer in the US and at the former Woomera defence site in South Australia.

If you have worked at a defence site, you are likely to have access to classified information. If you are also a computer engineer for a US firm, it is also likely that firm also engages in classified work.

Hence, Downunder, they may want him for debriefing whether he has in his work spilled the beans on his past work.Hence, the refusal to issue him a new passport!

The US Govt. ,through "private contractors", who may be retired CIA employees, still keep track of computer engineers who have worked in

sensitive areas in US. Govt. agencies and who may now be resident abroad and have acquired a foreign citizenship. They are still of interest to the US Govt.Such procedure apply to all countries!

I think you are trying to create a conspiracy where one doesn't exist. I too worked at a defence site on classified projects, British Ministry of Defence, and am still beholden to the Official Secrets Act and will be so until the day I die. I don't know how it works in Oz but would hazard a gues it's similar to the UK. If I "spilt the beans" on any highly classified work you could bet your bottom dollar the agency would not be content to let me lie low anyplace they could get access to and they certainly wouldn't leave me thirty years before removing my breathing license.

btw I don't live with one eye over my shoulder waiting for the tranquiliser dart. I doubt if any government in the world would pay me for the darkest secrets buried deep within my mind. I think the aviation industry has moved on since the development of the Hawker Hunter.

However, should anyne be willing to pick up my bar tab I'll be only too pleased to spin a yarn or two.

[midasthailand]

A full passport shold have been issued by the Australian Government if all conditios for a passport have been met There is no indication they were not. THe officials claim they offered him a one way travel document. Why didn't they do their job and issue him a passportl

Just maybe his a reason not to want to go back as such was an arrest warrant waiting for him there, hence no passport being offered,,.or maybe he was mad,surely you would have to be a little crazy to prefer a thai prison to the aussie one,.

You are getting closer to the reason!

Someone posted some background information which further puts more light to the case such as:-

For 12 years Mr Hansch worked as a computer engineer for a US firm in Thailand. He has also worked as a computer engineer in the US and at the former Woomera defence site in South Australia.

If you have worked at a defence site, you are likely to have access to classified information. If you are also a computer engineer for a US firm, it is also likely that firm also engages in classified work.

Hence, Downunder, they may want him for debriefing whether he has in his work spilled the beans on his past work.Hence, the refusal to issue him a new passport!

The US Govt. ,through "private contractors", who may be retired CIA employees, still keep track of computer engineers who have worked in

sensitive areas in US. Govt. agencies and who may now be resident abroad and have acquired a foreign citizenship. They are still of interest to the US Govt.Such procedure apply to all countries!

May he rest in Peace. Those posters that are determined top blame the Australian government obviously have access to information not posted here. To receive a full passport you need the appropriate documentation, this poor chap obviously was not in possession of the required proof of identity so the Consular staff offered him a temporary travel document that would have satisfied the Thai authorities and allowed him to return to Australia. He clearly did not want that to happen for whatever reason. The Embassy employs somebody (usually the spouse of one of the staff on posting) to act as the prison visits officer, this person visits ALL Australians on detention in Bangkok (both in Jail and IDC) they take magazines and books that have been donated by staff and families of the Embassy for distribution, they also act as postman/social worker/messenger as required.

Personally I don't believe these cases should be allowed to happen. Given that his nationality was known and his sentence served he should have had no say in it. Should have been repatriated.

[thaiwanderer]

the australian authorities would not issue him a full passport because he could not provide the necessary documents (perhaps not surprising after being in thailand 30 years)

as he was at the immigration centre it would appear he had served his time for the assault

he was offered a return to australia where he could then have resolved the issues and obtained a full passport and then gone wherever he wanted (assuming he had the funds)

instead he chose to remain there

whatever his motivations for this it was his choice

sometimes other possibilities should be explored before running with the CIA angle

Edited April 23, 2009 by thaiwanderer

[hazz]

Whilst I am sure that everyone involved in the case did their jobs;but at the end of they day this guy was allowed to rot in jail and die there.

There is a huge gap between doing you job and doing everything you can. It reflects badly on him, Thailand, Australia, their cilvil servants and their society that this farce was allowed to drag on for so long. I just hope that no of us find our selves relying on their kindness and generosity

[genset]

I think many countries, perhaps most, do not issue new passports from their Embassies abroad, only from the Passport agency at home. Passport renewals/replacements yes, new passport, I think not.

One also wonders why he did not have a passport to begin with?

The US embassy does, they issued a passport for my son. Not a temp passport but the full real passport

Ditto... I had a full British passport issued by the British Embassy in Jordan. I was down to one page thanks to a screw up with Jordanian immigration. With three further business trips to make overseas prior to returning to the UK, the embassy issued me a full passport in 3 days, the only difference was the issuing authority, stamped as FCO.

[DMasut]

This is a real Somerset Maugham-style story of a veteran expat who no longer "called Australia home". What a miserable end! And what an indictment of Australia that the deceased would (allegedly) prefer to die of an overdose of pharmaceutical drugs in a Thai jail than to go back to his country of origin!

Replies to the OP so far have glossed the issue that the deceased was convicted of GBH. I suspect there is more to this saga than we have heard on this thread.

Actually in areas like Koh Samui, Pattaya, Koh Phanghan, Phuket and Krabi it is not uncommon for guys messing around with present of former 'bargirls' over a period of time, and once the 'players' involved with the 'bar girl' position to extort the farang... and if they dig their heels too deep and refuse to pay up... the girl has him arrested for GBH, drugs, etc...

Most of the guys that do hit women...already know the program, pay up or get out of dodge immediately. Its the poor sucker that is not worldly enough to know..he won't receive justice in a foriegn country...and definitely not in Thailand when he is up against the organized criminals.

[Badbanker]

Actually while it is the policy of the Thai Government to deport people to their country of origin many exceptions are made and European and US Nationals can arrange to be deported to the Special Administrative Region of Hong Kong, as this country has a no right of refusal for European and US nationals. This right is also given to many other affluent western countries including Australia!

I have arranged this to be done several times and the people came straight back to Thailand with no problems.

I believe the issue is probably that the Australian Government will not issue a new full travel document unless you have a certain amount/number of pieces of personal ID. Even me that has been here for 20+ years and lost my passport that was found 2 weeks later had to give an inordinate amount of ID. When I did not have enough ID I was asked to get a affidavit from an influential person who had known me for more than 2 years

One thing is certain. The 14 days at the land border is making it extremely difficult for people to live permanently here. Many people are now overstaying and the number of farangs being detained at the IDC has increased substantially!

Their will be new a Immigration Law shortly to assist this "cleansing process"!

BB

[Neilreports]

Wondering how someone can choose not to be deported ? Isn't deportation just that they will get rid of you against your will ? Carry you into plane or even join the flight and hand you over the authorities in destination and tell you not to return ever.

Where i come from there is no chance of staying, jail or elsewhere once you have been deported and all possible means of appeal are rejected.

Thats a point you make here. I know in other countries they put you on a plane sometimes by using force. Have seen that many times on television.

Deportation is ordered by a court of law

So, how can someone refuse not to get deported???

If that was so easy we in the UK, would be doing this to.

[sunnymarky]

Well he must have been sick in the head to want to stay in a Thai prison. Where you have no rights. Thai Police and governemnt treat Foreign offenders worse than their own..FACT

Self-exiled Aussie dies in Bangkok

A Melbourne man who preferred to live in a crowded Bangkok immigration cell rather than return to Australia has died.

Colin Hansch, 61, told Thai authorities he would rather stay in jail than return to Australia, even though he only slept on a mat and received a small serve of rice and soup each day.

"I've not been back to Australia for 30 years. I don't want to go back. I've got nothing to go back to," Mr Hansch said last year.

A spokesman for the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade confirmed Mr Hansch's death in a police hospital in Bangkok.

The spokesman declined to reveal the cause of death.

People who visited him in the detention centre say he probably died from an overdose of prescription medicine.

Mr Hansch, a computer engineer who left Australia decades ago, refused offers by the Australian embassy in Bangkok to issue him a limited Australian travel document to allow him to return to Australia.

It is believed he wanted a passport so he could again leave Australia.

Mr Hansch had been detained at the Immigration Centre in Bangkok, near the Australian embassy, since September 2004.

He was transferred there, supposedly pending deportation, after serving two years in a Bangkok jail for assault causing bodily harm that related to a dispute with a bar girl in the tourist resort city of Pattaya.

There are about 25 Australians among thousands of foreigners being held in Thai jails, most of them for drug related offences.

Nicholas Zemlianski, another elderly prisoner from Melbourne, is believed to be unwell in a prison hospital in Bangkok.

Australia has an agreement with Thailand that allows prisoners there to be transferred to Australian jails but the process is intensely bureaucratic and there have been only a handful of exchanges.

- The Age (Australia) / 2009-04-23

[DMasut]

A full passport shold have been issued by the Australian Government if all conditios for a passport have been met There is no indication they were not. THe officials claim they offered him a one way travel document. Why didn't they do their job and issue him a passportl

Just maybe his a reason not to want to go back as such was an arrest warrant waiting for him there, hence no passport being offered,,.or maybe he was mad,surely you would have to be a little crazy to prefer a thai prison to the aussie one,.

You are getting closer to the reason!

Someone posted some background information which further puts more light to the case such as:-

For 12 years Mr Hansch worked as a computer engineer for a US firm in Thailand. He has also worked as a computer engineer in the US and at the former Woomera defence site in South Australia.

If you have worked at a defence site, you are likely to have access to classified information. If you are also a computer engineer for a US firm, it is also likely that firm also engages in classified work.

Hence, Downunder, they may want him for debriefing whether he has in his work spilled the beans on his past work.Hence, the refusal to issue him a new passport!

The US Govt. ,through "private contractors", who may be retired CIA employees, still keep track of computer engineers who have worked in

sensitive areas in US. Govt. agencies and who may now be resident abroad and have acquired a foreign citizenship. They are still of interest to the US Govt.Such procedure apply to all countries!

Sounds like someone's been to the farm?!

[fruittbatt]

Actually in areas like Koh Samui, Pattaya, Koh Phanghan, Phuket and Krabi it is not uncommon for guys messing around with present of former 'bargirls' over a period of time, and once the 'players' involved with the 'bar girl' position to extort the farang... and if they dig their heels too deep and refuse to pay up... the girl has him arrested for GBH, drugs, etc...

Most of the guys that do hit women...already know the program, pay up or get out of dodge immediately. Its the poor sucker that is not worldly enough to know..he won't receive justice in a foriegn country...and definitely not in Thailand when he is up against the organized criminals.

Nasty business indeed. I daresay that if the deceased man lived here for thirty years he would have been well aware of common scams. Pointless speculating on whether or not he actually was guilty of GBH until we know more about his story. All we know for sure is that he was convicted of this serious crime.

[notime]

It may be a side issue here but two years for assaulting a bar girl??? Maybe she was well connected or something because as far as I know all the punishment for a bit of "fighting" in Thailand is 1000 THB that cops make you pay at the station.

In my short 3 years at Samui I was a victim of assault 3 times and despite my attempts to report things to police nothing or nearly nothing was done about it. Once I was told that I had to get myself a good lawyer if I wanted to pursue the matter. The police was never interested in gathering evidence, would accept lies at face value even that in one case I had a witness and since my bones were never broken and I didn't need to stay at hospital it was so easy for them to sweep things under the carpet. So I'm very surprised reading this post that somebody got prosecuted for an assault here. Bravo police! ;-) Or maybe .. that had something to do with the fact that the Farang assaulted a Thai person and in my cases it was Thai assaulting Farang or Farang/Farang .. hmmm.

[spongeman]

He should have been deported, by force if necessary. Both Thailand and Australia are at fault.

RIP.

[kaorop]

"but he could have returned to a country where he would have been able to get some work, saved up, got a new passport"

No very difficult at his age

No at best bottom rung work low pay, high housing/food/utilities cost.

and

Maybe but there'd be no point considering the first 2

rip

[DaveYo]

Well, why didn't he just go to Australia, serve out any remaining time, and THEN just apply for a passport.

He had allready servedthe 2 years he was given before he was transferred to immigraton for deportation. He waitd 4 years for that. At last his wait is over. Congratulations Australia.

Hi Folks

Hmmm, Seems everybody missed the key points here on this thread. First under Thai Law, expats who are sentenced must complete their sentence. From there according to Thai Law, the person HAS TO BE DEPORTED. Anyone who is in the IDC is facing automatic Deportation back to their respective country and can only appeal such deportation while in custody in Thailand. You cannot appeal your deportation outside of Thailand. That is the law!!!!! Period no ifs ands or buts.

The Australian Government by their authority do issue out temporary one way travel documents which is a PASSPORT, that allows you to leave. Once your back in your country, you can then apply for a full travel passport. Takes max a month or less.

The reason is quite simple. If the Australian Government issued this person a full travel passport document, he would not go to Australia and would go someplace else. According to the law, a person who is deported or facing deportation MUST BE RETURNED BACK TO THEIR RESPECTIVE COUNTRY. I capitalized this to emphasize the main point. Hence the one way tempory passport to just one place and that is to their respective country. Understand. Once it is issued and all the paperwork is done, the person then is transported to the airport and checked into the outbound flight, and then thru the Immigrations Departure point and escorted to the plane. Once the person is seated on the plane the flight crew take over and the police will wait outside the doors until the plane doors are closed and they remain there at the terminal until the plane is in the air.

For this person to refuse Deportation both Governments screwed up. The Thai authorities should have taken this persons travel document and escorted him to the next plane out of Thailand and straight to Australia because the law is quite clear and this person did not appeal his deportation at any time while in custody. He >this dead person does not have a choice. There is no choice and the law is quite clear. Australia on the other hand should have requested the Thai Authorities to immediately put their citizen on the next plane out. They have a specific duty to comply and to ensure their citizen be returned home. It does not matter if he had no one or no reason to return, and this point is moot. He can do as he pleases once in Australia.

Therefore if anyone wants to make some kind of indictment or point some kind of finger, point it to both Governments for failure to comply with the laws so mandated. End of story.

Now whether IDC is better than Hotel Hilton is a toss up. I would say IDC is a bit better as you can receive visitors and get extra food and goodies whereas in Hotel Hilton you don't have those privileges. OK. So different strokes for different folks.

The last point is why and it is a big question (in spite of the bureaucratic red tape) why they The Australian Government not pursue taking him into custody and into a jail in Australia to be held until things get sorted out?????? Those held in jails have to be released if no pending arrests or charges are forthright coming. The max they can hold is only 72 hours without charges. The Australian Government would be in a better position to assist their citizen in their respective country because they have certain limitations as to what they can do in foreign countries. This part raises a lot of questions.

Daveyo