Thais Touching Your Kids

[jts-khorat]

The fallacy of your argument JTS is that it is dependent upon on the observation I have made being limited to interactions with my own children and/or within the community I am currently living in.

Of course you might be arguing that I am unaware of what goes on around me beyond my garden gate - That would be a remarkable claim.

We've had the argument that I live within some middle class, educated, wealthy bubble - that didn't hold water either.

To make the point. One would not have to have children to make observations on how Thais interact with other people's children. One only need, eyes and ears to observe.

All the more I am confused. From many of your other posts I know that you are a level-headed person with a regular lifestyle here in Thailand, staying here at least intermittently for a long period of time. You are neither a barfly nor a tourist. This gives your observations considerable weight, as does the fact that there has been a good number of people stating that they also never saw this behavior (namely Heng who, being Thai, in in a better position than most to comment about Thai culture).

But then there are my own observations, being completely the opposite to yours (and there is also a sizable number of people here who think Thais interacting with children of strangers, even more so when they are half foreigner; the OP is a perfect example of such an incident). I could explain that away if it would have been only a very small number of times I have seen it, but in the decade I am living here it has happened frequently -- quite often to my own son.

There seems to be an insurmountable difference in our observations, and tries to find out how we might come to so absolutely different conclusions have been met with little success: as you state you do not life in some special social bubble, you have your own children growing up here, etc.

As I am living on Phuket, it is not so that Thais cuddling with children of other people only happens in villages, even though the majority of people showing such affectionate, uncomplicated behavior might come from there -- but then the same people can be found everywhere in Thailand, including in the cities as their mobility is high (as such a place like Khon Kaen must be swarming with rural people, even though it is a sizable city).

[Sam125]

What a long thread - this is good news that we all care about our children.

The fact that there is disagreememt is just fine as we all agree that kids are important.

One point I want to try and make is that for many parents keeping their kids away from strangers is not because we fear the strangers molesting or kidnapping our kids in full view.

Instead we are trying to train our kids in how to behave in all times as in on school trips, walking to school etc. As there will be times when kids will be on their own.

To use a metaphor think of martial arts training: You train well beyond merely knowing the movements it must be second nature to be of use in an emergency.

It is exactly the same with kids you need to train them constantly. I have been a school teacher in America and I am a parent so I may very well be just a bit over protective - but I am very happy to be this way and I will never understand laid back parents who allow small kids to ride motercycles ar all amd certainly without helmets is madness - I also am shocked at parents that allow small kids to play in the streets. Again call me conservative and over protective but I am happy and my kids are safe.

[jackr]

Done in a public place, surrouned by hundreds of people, with his child in tow - smile, be polite, thank him, compliment his child, move on.

If you are going to get irritated everytime this happens after a few more years you are going to end up having an extremely sour demeanor everytime you step out your front door with your kids.

Just make sure you keep them close when out in public & accept the compliments in the spirit that they are given.

You overly protective Westerners know nothing Thai culture and arrived yesterday - right?

Bang on guys

what really annoys me is when i am holding my daughter (nearly 2) and a thai women will just try and take her out of my arms without saying anything to me. they all get a nice loud "fuck off" just to make sure there is no misunderstanding!!

<deleted>!

----

Neeranam, you've been here long enough to know the score and how people tick, what's wrong with you? Stop comparing how things work in the West to here. If you'd perhaps taken your eye off your girl for a minute and later found her checking out the toy section and some random, lone guy who looked a bit iffy was rubbing her arm, then it's time to throw some punches, but what you're saying sounds like a totally innocent jesture by a father appreciating your kid. It also happens Thai-Thai btw. Getting hung up on the 'leuk krung' thing is also daft. Although meaning half-caste, it's generally not meant in a derogatory way and certainly not to the extreme that those in the West might use it.

What would I do? Take a chill pill or move on if this stuff like this shook me up

[rixalex]

Done in a public place, surrouned by hundreds of people, with his child in tow - smile, be polite, thank him, compliment his child, move on.

If you are going to get irritated everytime this happens after a few more years you are going to end up having an extremely sour demeanor everytime you step out your front door with your kids.

Just make sure you keep them close when out in public & accept the compliments in the spirit that they are given.

You overly protective Westerners know nothing Thai culture and arrived yesterday - right?

Bang on guys

what really annoys me is when i am holding my daughter (nearly 2) and a thai women will just try and take her out of my arms without saying anything to me. they all get a nice loud "fuc_k off" just to make sure there is no misunderstanding!!

<deleted>!

----

Neeranam, you've been here long enough to know the score and how people tick, what's wrong with you? Stop comparing how things work in the West to here. If you'd perhaps taken your eye off your girl for a minute and later found her checking out the toy section and some random, lone guy who looked a bit iffy was rubbing her arm, then it's time to throw some punches, but what you're saying sounds like a totally innocent jesture by a father appreciating your kid. It also happens Thai-Thai btw. Getting hung up on the 'leuk krung' thing is also daft. Although meaning half-caste, it's generally not meant in a derogatory way and certainly not to the extreme that those in the West might use it.

What would I do? Take a chill pill or move on if this stuff like this shook me up

Well summed up Jack.

I just don't get exactly what Neeranam's issue is. Unless i've missed it, i haven't read his reasoning stated clearly. He's denied that it has anything to do with sexual predators or hygiene, so what is it? Neeranam, could you finish this sentence for me:

"I don't like strangers touching my kids, even if the touching is done in a respectful and appropriate manner and whilst i am present, and by people who appear healthy, genuine and normal, because............................................................."

[LooseCannon]

I just don't get exactly what Neeranam's issue is. Unless i've missed it, i haven't read his reasoning stated clearly. He's denied that it has anything to do with sexual predators or hygiene, so what is it? Neeranam, could you finish this sentence for me:

"I don't like strangers touching my kids, even if the touching is done in a respectful and appropriate manner and whilst i am present, and by people who appear healthy, genuine and normal, because............................................................."

In light of this particular comment it appears that social status could play a part......

... If the drunk that empties the bins touched my girls, I'd definitely tell him not to(as much as I like him). If the PM touched my daughter and complimented her, I wouldn't mind.

So, to Neeranam, does this apply to cabinet ministers & junior MP's?

How far down the social ladder do we have to go before you find it unacceptable?

No touching by lo-so, drunk or sober?

[G54]

I cannot comment directly as I do not have any children by a Thai, but, I would feel that as the girl got older I would be concerned with assessing the way a male touched my daughter and take it from there. It has to be different with a baby, but as the daughter grows older and begins to develop that would be a different matter.

[MikeWill]

The fallacy of your argument JTS is that it is dependent upon on the observation I have made being limited to interactions with my own children and/or within the community I am currently living in.

Of course you might be arguing that I am unaware of what goes on around me beyond my garden gate - That would be a remarkable claim.

We've had the argument that I live within some middle class, educated, wealthy bubble - that didn't hold water either.

To make the point. One would not have to have children to make observations on how Thais interact with other people's children. One only need, eyes and ears to observe.

... and be wise enough to interpret.

[Neeranam]

I just don't get exactly what Neeranam's issue is. Unless i've missed it, i haven't read his reasoning stated clearly. He's denied that it has anything to do with sexual predators or hygiene, so what is it? Neeranam, could you finish this sentence for me:

"I don't like strangers touching my kids, even if the touching is done in a respectful and appropriate manner and whilst i am present, and by people who appear healthy, genuine and normal, because............................................................."

No I can't.

If your sentence didn't have the words respectful and appropriate, I could.

[Neeranam]

All the more I am confused. From many of your other posts I know that you are a level-headed person with a regular lifestyle here in Thailand, staying here at least intermittently for a long period of time. You are neither a barfly nor a tourist. This gives your observations considerable weight, as does the fact that there has been a good number of people stating that they also never saw this behavior (namely Heng who, being Thai, in in a better position than most to comment about Thai culture).

But then there are my own observations, being completely the opposite to yours (and there is also a sizable number of people here who think Thais interacting with children of strangers, even more so when they are half foreigner; the OP is a perfect example of such an incident). I could explain that away if it would have been only a very small number of times I have seen it, but in the decade I am living here it has happened frequently -- quite often to my own son.

There seems to be an insurmountable difference in our observations, and tries to find out how we might come to so absolutely different conclusions have been met with little success: as you state you do not life in some special social bubble, you have your own children growing up here, etc.

As I am living on Phuket, it is not so that Thais cuddling with children of other people only happens in villages, even though the majority of people showing such affectionate, uncomplicated behavior might come from there -- but then the same people can be found everywhere in Thailand, including in the cities as their mobility is high (as such a place like Khon Kaen must be swarming with rural people, even though it is a sizable city).

The main thing I think you are confusing is that the children will not be strangers.

I've talked to many friends about this and they all agree - if they were out with their 7 year old daughter, they wouldn't like a total stranger coming over and touching her. To the ones that smile and thank them fine, my hat's off to you.

[Neeranam]

In light of this particular comment it appears that social status could play a part......

QUOTE (Neeranam @ 2009-04-25 11:34:39) *

... If the drunk that empties the bins touched my girls, I'd definitely tell him not to(as much as I like him). If the PM touched my daughter and complimented her, I wouldn't mind.

So, to Neeranam, does this apply to cabinet ministers & junior MP's?

How far down the social ladder do we have to go before you find it unacceptable?

No touching by lo-so, drunk or sober?

Good question!

Also at what age would the "say thank you crowd" stop? If a starnger touched my girls when 6 month to 2 years, I DON"T mind. What about walking down the road with your girl when she's 22 - a total stranger touches her and say what a beautiful half-caste? Yeah, I'd wai them and show them the utmost respect

I'd feel more comfortable with lo-so touching than junior MPs - go figure.

Actually I have many sober, alcoholic lo-so friends.

[rixalex]

I just don't get exactly what Neeranam's issue is. Unless i've missed it, i haven't read his reasoning stated clearly. He's denied that it has anything to do with sexual predators or hygiene, so what is it? Neeranam, could you finish this sentence for me:

"I don't like strangers touching my kids, even if the touching is done in a respectful and appropriate manner and whilst i am present, and by people who appear healthy, genuine and normal, because............................................................."

No I can't.

If your sentence didn't have the words respectful and appropriate, I could.

Again apologies if i've missed it, but i don't recall you mentioning in the OP about the touch being disrespectful or inappropriate - you just said that you didn't like it.

So in what way was it a disrespectful and inappropriate touch?

Edited May 2, 2009 by rixalex

[LooseCannon]

Also at what age would the "say thank you crowd" stop? If a starnger touched my girls when 6 month to 2 years, I DON"T mind. What about walking down the road with your girl when she's 22 - a total stranger touches her and say what a beautiful half-caste? Yeah, I'd wai them and show them the utmost respect

I'd feel more comfortable with lo-so touching than junior MPs - go figure.

Actually I have many sober, alcoholic lo-so friends.

Let me remind you from your OP....

Here's the situation - my elder daughter(7).........

So we are not talking about a 22 year old women in this instance & as such your comment is inane & irrelevant.

Now, we do seem to be getting to the crux of the matter. You don't mind the 'touching' but with a couple of conditions, these being the age of the child being 'touched' & the motive & personal hygiene of the 'toucher'.

The argument now becomes should an adult male touch a 7 year old girl when all your pre-conditions are met.

As your children get older you will find that this random 'touching' more or less disappears as they lose their 'cuteness'. From my experience of 2 boys the 'touching' (from a flawed memory) went from a high rate when babies & toddlers & eventually stopped when they were around 6 or 7 years old. For girls it may go on for a year or two longer.

I, too, would prefer that politicians of any persuasion not touch myself or any members of my family.

But I would make an exception for this particular candidate for the European Parliament....

Barbara Matera for the curious.

[eljeque]

You overly protective Westerners know nothing Thai culture and arrived yesterday - right?

Your totally out of order the PB.

As parents we have an absolute responsibility to our children to protect them - Nothing about being over protective and everything about being a good parent.

And an observation on Thai culture - Thais do not go around touching, pinching, picking up, tickling or in anyway messing with the children of other Thais that they do not know - IT DOES NOT HAPPEN.

But hey, their's a foreigner with his little foreign 'Duk-a-taar' let's go play with it.

I'll give you an example:

When our daughter was at tot I took her with me shopping to Mike's Department store in Pattaya - Like many parents in Thailand I was quite happy to let her run around as I could always find her by simply looking at the shop assistants to see where they themselves were looking - basic geometry - all looking at where the little-un was tottering around.

But also like most parents you get a second sense when something's wrong - I knew without asking something was wrong by the look of the face of one of the shop assistants - I ran around the counter to find a Thai woman with a pair of scissors cutting a chunk out of our daughter's hair - I went F@cking berserk - took the scissors off her and cut a chunk of hair off her head that left her half bald.

Over protective - not understanding Thai culture my backside - My kids, my duty to protect them and my right to do so.

That seems like a normal reaction to me.

A Thai mother or father would not have been so creative, but would have gone after the woman with full force.

[oldsparrow]

Thais probably have a reason to 'wai' and not shake hands. Touch is very personal. If they do not like to shake hands with each other, you can only imagine where these hands have been before touching your daughter. Maybe up there noses, wiping their backsides, who knows. I certainly wouldn't like it.

Actually its because they wash their ass with their hand and dont want to "dirty" you ,have you seen the correct way to hand you something, the "dirty hand holds the wrist whilst the clean one hands you the change/goods,.....

It come in the scense of passiveness, when you Wai you hold both hands up in front, head down, eyes down, submit one's self to the consideration. The people you Wai can chop off your head if they'd like to. The higher statue of people you Wai you hold higher hands and bow lower.

Thus, the higher status receives the Wai with Wai of lesser degree or just nod the head.

- A Thai man

[oldsparrow]

Not gonna post any details but I had a supposed "friend" keep on making stupid little comments about my daughter of 2 years 9 months such as "oh if I was 30 years younger" then he was smelling her hair but to top it all she was playing in the ice box & he walked behind her & simulated sex from behind. Needless to say the guy is no longer my friend & I keep my daughter away from him.

Which hospital is he in, and if not why not, <deleted>,. ,you are well shot of him,

With behavior like this, the pervert junk may well disturb many others and will not survive much longer.

[ScottishThai]

Here's the situation - my elder daughter(7) is walking out from her new school with me when a Thai man(parent) comes over and touches her arm saying, "look kreung, suey" or "beautiful half-caste".

What would you do or say?

This happens frequently with one or both of my girls - usually in the supermarket. With the 2 year old it's not so bad but as they get older it irritates me. No foreigner has ever done this.

I would imagine that I'd be arrested if I did the same in my country. Does this happen in the West - people touching your daughters?

I'll tell you what I did later.

Would you say/do the same in Tesco Lotus Bangkok and Tesco Birmingham?

Maybe I'm over-protective towards my girls?

I'm the same as you; very protective of my 2 girls. However I am quite happy for the thais to touch them (most of the time they ask first), unlike when we lived in Malaysia they would pinch their cheeks which normally made the youngest one cry and the oldest pull away quickly. Hence she is very wary and hy when it comes to strangers now.

Atleast here in LOS I feel I can trust most who touch as it is predominately women who touch them. Men I think would be a different kettle of fish!

If it were the UK the story would be completely different, however the girs always got admiring smiles from the older women in Tesco.

So what did you do?

[a2396]

Here's the situation - my elder daughter(7) is walking out from her new school with me when a Thai man(parent) comes over and touches her arm saying, "look kreung, suey" or "beautiful half-caste".

What would you do or say?

This happens frequently with one or both of my girls - usually in the supermarket. With the 2 year old it's not so bad but as they get older it irritates me. No foreigner has ever done this.

I would imagine that I'd be arrested if I did the same in my country. Does this happen in the West - people touching your daughters?

I'll tell you what I did later.

Would you say/do the same in Tesco Lotus Bangkok and Tesco Birmingham?

Maybe I'm over-protective towards my girls?

Arrested in your country for touching a child on the arm? Glad I don't live in your country. I was told once by a Thai lady friend, that I should not touch any children unless I was their Father. No wonder many here are such cold fish when they grow up. They don't know how to give or recieve any affection. They never saw it.

[GuestHouse]

No wonder many here are such cold fish when they grow up. They don't know how to give or recieve any affection. They never saw it.

I've highlighted your unfounded assertions for you, it should help you see how grossly predjudicial and unfounded your comment is.

I've used different colours to segregate your gross generalizations, in order that you can destinguish them one from another, them being so closely bunched in your rant.

[Ijustwannateach]

I think that Thailand is in a more 'innocent' age where kids are concerned, in the sense that no one is as conscious (in a family/community setting) of the possibilities of lurking perverts as citizens of English-speaking lands have become, and so most friendly attention is taken (and given) at face value.

The up-side is that kids get a lot of friendly attention. The down-side MIGHT be that there really are a few perverts out there who don't get caught as quickly as they might elsewhere.

[a2396]

No wonder many here are such cold fish when they grow up. They don't know how to give or recieve any affection. They never saw it.

I've highlighted your unfounded assertions for you, it should help you see how grossly predjudicial and unfounded your comment is.

I've used different colours to segregate your gross generalizations, in order that you can destinguish them one from another, them being so closely bunched in your rant.

Not unfounded by my experience. I call em as I see em here. I would not rate Thais as any great shakes in showing affection, in public or otherwise.

[GuestHouse]

I think that Thailand is in a more 'innocent' age where kids are concerned, in the sense that no one is as conscious (in a family/community setting) of the possibilities of lurking perverts as citizens of English-speaking lands have become, and so most friendly attention is taken (and given) at face value.

The up-side is that kids get a lot of friendly attention. The down-side MIGHT be that there really are a few perverts out there who don't get caught as quickly as they might elsewhere.

You need to close the circle on that one.

Brits here may recall the old adage 'what happens in the US now, will happen in the UK in 20 years time' - a comment made in the sixties and seventies as the British Press wondered over 'strange happenings in the US' - as time passed this was whittled down to more like two years delay reflecting the speed at which evnets 'seemed' to cross the atlantic.

Coming to the point.

In the 60s and 70s the US was already examining and bringing charges against child abusers who were teachers, scout leaders, people who ought to be trusted - The response in the UK was - That could never happen here - or - That's the US we aren't like them.

Well we were wrong weren't we.

The down-side MIGHT be that there really are a few perverts out there who don't get caught as quickly as they might elsewhere.

Be absolutely sure, there are more than a few and they seldom get caught at all.

To believe anything else is to deny the lessons of what has been learned in the west and to deny human nature and human failings.

[GuestHouse]

No wonder many here are such cold fish when they grow up. They don't know how to give or recieve any affection. They never saw it.

I've highlighted your unfounded assertions for you, it should help you see how grossly predjudicial and unfounded your comment is.

I've used different colours to segregate your gross generalizations, in order that you can destinguish them one from another, them being so closely bunched in your rant.

Not unfounded by my experience. I call em as I see em here. I would not rate Thais as any great shakes in showing affection, in public or otherwise.

Then you should be a bit more clear that those are your opinions based on ..... well, your opinions (we sometimes call these blind prejudices or sweeping generalizations - Not that I'm saying I don't enjoy making them too, but I don't try to pass them off as facts).

[a2396]

No wonder many here are such cold fish when they grow up. They don't know how to give or recieve any affection. They never saw it.

I've highlighted your unfounded assertions for you, it should help you see how grossly predjudicial and unfounded your comment is.

I've used different colours to segregate your gross generalizations, in order that you can destinguish them one from another, them being so closely bunched in your rant.

Not unfounded by my experience. I call em as I see em here. I would not rate Thais as any great shakes in showing affection, in public or otherwise.

Then you should be a bit more clear that those are your opinions based on ..... well, your opinions (we sometimes call these blind prejudices or sweeping generalizations - Not that I'm saying I don't enjoy making them too, but I don't try to pass them off as facts).

Of course most things stated on this forum are peoples opinions. When it comes to social customs, there are many exceptions. I only refer to what my experiences have been here. Thailand in general is not a country where any public display of affection is well recieved and many people are not comfortable with such and avoid this type of behaviour. When you have wives refusing to hold hands or touch their husbands in public, I would say that's bit much for my personal preferances. Fortunately, I have seen a few bold teenagers throwing out the old "rules" on occasion.

[saraburioz]

I have 3 sons who are touched regularly by Thai women and they don’t seem to mind it and neither do I. If I had a daughter, I wouldn’t let Thai males or farang touch her, NO WAY. The women NEVER have any sexual motive but the men are frikkin perverted. Many here don’t realize the incest and other sexual depravities that go on.

Same I wouldn’t let gay Thai men touch my sons. Homophobic? NO, but its just the way I feel. I have had a big problem with my brother in law who is a freak of nature(but no so bad) gatoy. I’d suspect that they are mentally inbalanced and I don’t like letting him/her look after the boys by himself/herself. I have been here for over 10 years and know that Thai men don’t go around touching other Thais daughters. There would be some serious consequences if they did.

Edited May 29, 2009 by saraburioz

[nickbk]

I have a daughter and she is touched regularly by both males and females. It seems to be normal in Thailand to behave that way and I see no reason to get upset about it. As long as they don't try to take her.

My thai wife finds it normal so why shouldn't I?

I guess that if you don't like it, just smile and walk away. There's no reason to call the police

[icequeen]

This discussion brings to mind a programme I watched a couple of years ago back in the UK. A little girl (maybe 9 or 10 years old) was sent to walk down the high street of a busy town, closely supervised by hidden crew members. Just to see how many people would approach her to see if she was ok. During the space of about 45 minutes only one lady approached her to try and help. When people who had obviously noticed her and done nothing were later interviewed both men and women but particularly men said that they were afraid to approach to try and help incase people thought they were perverts!

This in my view is what is unacceptable, people being made to feel that they cannot help a child that appears to be lost and distressed all due to the paranoid, bigoted opinions of the west!

[ahkuoi]

hey if its farang or any other man noway i am overprotective and i dont trust them. specially met many bad farangs in Thailand so it depends on the situation. myself being the father of girl i can understand your situation, in Thailand i just smile and take my daughter away immediatly i dont trust anybody.

[jackdanielsesq]

Get a Life.

BR>Jack

[cuddleypete]

My son gets touched too and sometimes it irritates me but i realize i'm in thailand and this happens a lot

[IanForbes]

Seems like people just think your daughters are cute. You should be proud not pissed off.

I agree. Just someone being friendly. I wouldn't be so paranoid. It would be different if the girl was on her own. In that situation she would have to be adamant that people don't touch her.

And, It IS different in western cultures where touching someone else's kids is not appropriate.