Abandoned

[MSingh]

I know its easy for people to say what you should do, when they are not in your shoes.

You're 100% correct, but it just doesn't make Ernest's situation ( through no fault of his own ) right though or the Girls situation & complete & utter betrayal by her Parents & Family so far in her life, any better...

Edited April 27, 2009 by MSingh

[NanLaew]

Is this inertia and lack of care part of this bad karma hokey where if people do bad things, they will come back in the next life as something despicable? If you help someone with bad karma, then you invite the same on yourself? It seems that coming back as a mangy dog is not the only option but whatever could this poor girl have done in a previous incarnation? IMHO, it's cruel indifference swathed in self-righteousness that prevents the locals lending a hand.

The NGO is the best way to go as the locals are bound by religious superstition not to lend a hand.

[torrenova]

Sorry i hope i haven't come accross as callous but i've been told by about 3 people in the family not to interfere already and that its nothing to do with me and yes it pisses me off seeing her everyday not go to school just wasting her life.

But when you keep get being told mind your own business you sorta give up. I can't exactly force the kid to come with me to the goverment offices , nor the grandmother. One of the aunties works in the local goverment offices and she's done nothing either.

If you really want to help, then resort to bribery. Given that it is going to be your cash anyway, add some more to offer something, even just cash, to someone who can be bought to make this happen. In reverse, withdraw assistance (if any is given) until it is sorted out.

Do you know where the real mama and papa are to get statements off them ?

[llso]

I agree there seems to be more to this story than meets the eye. Some strange reason why noone in that family . Who clearly could help rich aunt, government worker is interested in the case. Also the fact that everyone is telling you to don't meddle in this . Definitely something up. I have spent enough time in Thailand and upcountry ,more than 7 years to know something is amiss.

LL

[noise]

Can she not be legally registered now?

(Nice to read there is something out there for her, crossbones)

The grandmother and the village khamnan can go to the Amphur and enter the child on the grandmother's (or whoever's house they live in) tabien baan. That is allowed as the grandmother and khamnan will be swearing to the validity of the claim. The tabien baan includes birth date info and then can be used to get "no birth certificate available". From that point on, ID cards, etc., can be obtained.

I wrote this as fact based on one personal experience (abeit with an adult and not a child).

I quit reading here, so I may be repeating what a subsequent replier provided.

[slapout]

Noise has the answer. My wife had no birth certificate and went this route, her parents were alive and they signed the docs, along with khamnan, and possibly 1 or two more witness. She can and should be encourged to do so while people who know her and background are still living.

[goodheartman]

I thank everyone for their useful replies. In about a month my wifes sis comes back from BKK, her command of english is better than the wifes regarding these sorts of issues, so I will wait till then and then talk to her and try and get something done.

language barrier explains alot! i bet he dont know half of what s going on.

[dbrenn]

Let me polish my crystal ball. In your future, I see...you paying more than your fair share of the children's upbringing.

..and if he has the money, why not? The choice of course is his. And..I dont mean this to come off as antagonistic, but that wasnt what the OP was asking anyway. He was asking if the scenario is common. Of which I have no idea. Maybe someone has a better idea of the statistics. But, even in other countries its often normal to have a child stay with a grandparent/relative when the parent is out working. However, in this case its very sad, and quite extreme, as the young girl isnt even registered (which is something that should be rectified). Its probably too late for her to have any kind of conventional schooling, but if she cannot read and write, do arithmetic etc..then she should have some basic schooling in these areas. What does she do everyday? Help out her grandmother with simple things or more labour intensive things? Does she have any kind of free time/play time? She is at a good age for learning some kind of skill. So, I think some kind of vocational school/schooling would be good for her.

The sum of money is very small for their upkeep, but what are the parents earning? Would the parents be better off back in their home town? Would the kids be better off with their parents? Each circumstance will be different. Some parents may not care, some may care deeply, and are just trying to work hard. In this case it sounds like they dont care as much as they should..but only from the few things you mentioned. Only those who know them well will know.

(sorry a lot of questions in there..its of course your choice if you wish to answer them. Im not judging you, or them, just would be nice if you have time/money to try give them some kind of start in life. )

Agreed - if the OP wants to help these kids and give them a future, good on him! I mean, they are in rags so this is obviously not just a ruse to get money.

[goodheartman]

although a scam of greater complexity may be taking place. isnt it unusual for thai to shun one of their own(the 2 kids)?

[loong]

although a scam of greater complexity may be taking place. isnt it unusual for thai to shun one of their own(the 2 kids)?

Unusual to be shunned by BOTH parents, but not so rare. Thai fathers often just completely forget about their offspring when they divorce the mother and never visit their children again. less often the mother clears off and leaves the children with the father. Never to be seen again.

My brother-in -law is a monk and his daughter has lived with us for over a year. The mother has not made any sort of contact in all that time, not even a phone call. It's obviously a dysfunctional family as the niece's grandmother live the other side of the main road and if the niece and grandmother happen to pass each other neither acknowledges the other's existence.

[anonymouse]

Nice to see there are a lot of warm hearted people on Thai Visa

I'd agree if you can do nothing else at least try to get her legally registered, even if you have to pay some financial incentives to get signatures this will at least benefit her if she gets sick and needs hospital treatment.

After that you've got to think long and hard about making any sort of commitment and plan accordingly.

[scorecard]

My comments:

- I admire you for taking the trouble to ask for some comments and information on the possibilities.

- Take a little risk to push for the registration, and spend some money if needed to get the registration completed.

- Do it as quickly as possible so the girl can get into school quickly and remember, for the girl starting late will be difficult for may reasons let alone the loss of face of not being able to read and write like the other children her age, and this is not a Thai culture item, this would apply anywhere in the world. And it wouldn't cost too much upcountry to get her a private tutor for 6 months before she goes to 'normal' classes.

- Why do I say all of the above? Because i've seen something similar and I eventually decided that I just couldn't sit and ignore the whole situation any more. I faced criticism for 'not minding my own business' but I pushed that aside and went for it.

Today I'm very glad that I did, the little boy concerned is now just finishing his undergraduate degree, he's learnt good English and has many job offers to work through, and has from his late teens he has spent every spare hour teaching other underpriviged kids. I sponsored the boys total education and it hasn't really cost that much.

The parents were totally uninterested and weren't prepared to spend any time or any money whatever to come to the changwat to sign the needed documents, so I paid for transport and hotel etc., to take some local amphur officers to Samut Prakan where the parents were both working in a facory. To ensure some guarantee of success we explained all the circumstances to our local amphur district office manager who was, along with the other officers who came to Samut Prakan. totally humble and totally co-operative. They careully contacted the factory manager in Samat Prakan and told us who the 'wise pooyai' was amongst the factory worksers and he was asked to facilitate a meeting with the parents. He did that and he made sure the parents signed the documents.

The parents have continued to be totally uninterested and uncaring about their son.

Today The young man concerned sees me as his his father. and his life coach.

He has married and has one child and he's making sure his child is getting everything possible in terms of care and love and education.

All of this was all worth the string of difficulties to get it started, but the result for the young man is just great, and for me it has changed my life.

Please get started tomorrow.

[sinewave]

i have been struggling with a hilltribe girl for quite a while now, and nothing that should be happening ever happens...within the first 2 months it was all good....but these people cannot fathom the good you have planned for them beyond 1 month...

with dearest regret and dismay i suggest you let her go...only the immediate future depends to them not long time benefits, they cannot imagine what type of life you can give them..only the immediate motocye or monthly rent coming up...

dont fall victim... you can find someone that is more appreciative and sees your heart....you will never be able to compete with the people -sisters-brothers-bar girl friends, that whisper things into her ear....

you are an outsider...

[eek]

wow, sinewave, im sorry but I have to strongIy disagree. Im sorry your experience of trying to heIp someone did go as you pIanned, but I hope it doesnt put you off heIping someone eIse again if you see a need. Some peopIe may not appreciate or recognise heIp given. But, I aIso think its because of the heIpers expectations.

Every person deserves a chance, especiaIIy with something simpIe as just getting them registered. That in itseIf opens up doors for them. Im sad to read that you advice the OP to waIk away. To not even try to give a young girI a start in Iife and an opportunity to better herseIf.

Thing is, you can show someone a path to take, you can guide them if they are wiIIing, but, you cant force them. Each person is different. IndividuaI. One sad outcome shouIdnt cIoud your judgement to heIp another person. HeIp if you can. Some things in Iife shouId be offered freeIy, without an expectation of something in return or an outcome.

[photojourn]

My suggestion is to commit yourself to helping the kids out as much as you can.

I've always felt horrible about the way animals are treated here and in the last few years I've started raising money and providing medical care and food for them and it really feels good to help another living being improve their life. Helping a human being would feel even better. You will be happy that you decided to.

Also agree. Perhaps explain the reasons to your wife and get her to raise it. Child trafficking is abhorrent and she is certainly at risk.