Obtaining Thai Citizenship

[skippybangkok]

I put in my application with Special Branch in 2007. Funnily enough, my first interview was at a KFC, too (but not at the Victory Monument one).

Anyway, I had my formal committee interview at the Ministry of Interior in August 2008 (along with about 250 other applicants), and was told informally afterwards that I had passed and that everything was green light.

That was almost nine months ago now.

I heard nothing for a year and five months from my Interior Ministry interview. I then got news telling me that the Intrior Minister had signed, with a letter arriving around a month later. It then took another 8 months for the King to sanction my application, and another 6 months after that for the Interior Minister to sign off again and hand my application back to Special Branch.

The waiting was very frustrating, but there was nothing much I could do to hurry things along.

After the PR process, you should have been well wetted.

[dbrenn]

Thanks for the reply guys, looks like I won't be going through that hassle of PR and just stick to visa's.

That's Up to you - visas are the easiest way to stay. But bear in mind that the rules that govern eligibility for temporary residency (non-imm) visas are constantly changing at the whim of the Immigration Bureau, and you could find yourself unable to stay sooner or later.

As a PR or a citizen, you no longer have to worry about that. You are allowed to stay, no matter how the policy on temporary residency changes.

My advice is to always apply for the rights to stay as long as you possibly can, as soon as you can, and keep in mind that visas are temporary. Had I not done that, I would not be posting here.

Edited April 30, 2009 by dbrenn

[skippybangkok]

to be honest, the paperwork was a doddle (mostly) very clear instructions. You'll find you've got most of it anyway. And going to special branch is great compared with Suan Phlu...so quiet!

Had a tougher time applying to migrate to the UK to be honest. Endless forms etc.

thx,

time to ge tmy butt into gear........

[dbrenn]

After the PR process, you should have been well wetted.

In my case PR took only a few months - I applied in December 1997, was interviewed in March 1998, and got my PR in August 1998, so I was not well wetted. PR takes longer these days.

[Richard4849]

dbrenn,

Thanks for the encouragement.

Can I ask, once you received your citizenship, did you adopt a Thai name/surname -- or keep your original name in Thai transliterated script (like on your PR book).

I've been trying to weight the advantages/disadvantages.

I kept my original name for a the follwowing reasons:

1) You are no longer obliged to take a Thai name. Even if they asked you to choose one when you applied for Thai citizenship, which I had to do, the rules have changed and you will keep your original name when you are naturalised

2) Keeping your original name makes travelling easier - switching passports mid-flight is seamless, but switching names could present problems. The names in my Thai and British passports match, which means that there is minimum confusion if I am asked to show both pasports at the same time

3) As a Thai, you can change your name any time you like. The THai authorities track you by your ID number (which you already have as a PR and won't change when you become a citizen) - whatever name you choose to attach to your ID number is of no real importance, and you can change it as often as you like.

Thanks. It was the passport-switching issue that was giving me pause. Traveling on two different passports with two names might present problems in this day and age...

[ubonjoe]

Nonsensical post deleted.

[TheChiefJustice]

ChiefJustice,

I'm just wondering if you have been working to ease your application's way through the system (so to speak), or just letting nature take it's course?

I have had a few influential people make inquiries on my behalf as to the status of my application. Other than that, I have not done anything. I expect to wait and receive my citizenship at some stage in the future. I was hoping to have it by the end of 2009. But, looking at dbrenn's timeline, that might be unrealistic. We'll see.

[PatinBKk]

Permanent resident works much better for me I can't imagine giving up my right to travel about the world freely without paperwork hassles and visa fees. Is there a large fee involved in getting actual citizenship?

Most countries allow dual citezenship, so no problems travelling if you have passport from your original country

[Jungian]

Permanent resident works much better for me I can't imagine giving up my right to travel about the world freely without paperwork hassles and visa fees. Is there a large fee involved in getting actual citizenship?

Thailand has no problem with holding multiple passports.

Unless your own country strips you of your current nationality when you to take out another nationality, there is no problem.

So you really get the best of both worlds.

Fees for applying are a couple of thousand baht at most from memory.

Thank you for that information I didn't know you could hold two passports, I figured because Thailand was so strict about immigration they might not allow it. Although I can get by pretty well in Thai I doubt my Thai is good enough to do an interview and I understand fluency in Thai is a requirement.

[RAZZELL]

After the PR process, you should have been well wetted.

In my case PR took only a few months - I applied in December 1997, was interviewed in March 1998, and got my PR in August 1998, so I was not well wetted. PR takes longer these days.

dbrenn

Just out of interest, how long have you lived in Thailand? And could you give us a timeframe for all your applications.

How long had you been in the Kingdom before you applied for PR, got PR 9 months later and how long after that before you applied for Thai citizenship.

Basically, how long from setting foot in Thailand until you got citizenship.

Many thanks

RAZZ

Edited May 2, 2009 by RAZZELL

[dbrenn]

dbrenn

Just out of interest, how long have you lived in Thailand? And could you give us a timeframe for all your applications.

How long had you been in the Kingdom before you applied for PR, got PR 9 months later and how long after that before you applied for Thai citizenship.

Basically, how long from setting foot in Thailand until you got citizenship.

Many thanks

RAZZ

Moved to Thailand 1990, stayed on non-imm yearly extensions

Applied for PR 1997

Got PR 1998

Applied for citizenship 2004

Got citizenship 2007

The long delay before I applied for PR was because I didn't realise at the time that I was eligible for it until a friend got his. The delay applying for citizenship was laziness, and the fact that my upcountry Tabien Bahn meant that I couldn't apply in BKK. At that time (1998), there was no 5 year PR requirement and the special branch were willing to accept my application right after PR. I was very busy at work, so applying upcountry would have been too problematic, causing me to give up on the idea until I got a BKK Tabien Bahn. The 5 year PR requirement before you apply for citizenship comes and goes, so you should ask at the special branch what the situation is now.

So as you can see, it took me 17 years, but I could and should have done it much sooner. Immigratioon rules the world over only ever seem to get tougher, so the rule is: if you are eligible for something, apply for it as soon as you can. As other people have said here - getting Thai citizenship is no more difficult than PR these days.

[Richard4849]

dbrenn, you and I arrived in exactly the same year.

I did not get around to applying to PR until 2000, though. Received it in 2002. Applied for citizenship in 2007 -- I waited five years in the belief that one had to have PR for five years first, but that no longer seems to be the case.

Anyway, based on the timeline above, I hope to receive my citizenship in 2010.

Patinbkk, dual citizenship is not the issue. The issue is having dual aliases: a Thai passport with a Thai name in it, and a Western passport with a (different) English name in it.

For example...I'm American. When I want to travel from Thailand to the US, what name should I reserve my flight under? When departing Thailand, I would use my Thai passport -- thus the boarding card would not match the passport on departure if I booked in my English name.

But if I booked the ticket in my Thai name, there would be the same problem on return: the ticket/boarding pass would not match my US identification. Would authorities allow me to board using a Thai passport with a Thai name as identification, even if I had not entered the country using that passport? Would major red flags be sent up once it was known that I had two separate aliases and was switching identities in mid-flight, as it were?

That's what I'd be concerned about.

[dbrenn]

dbrenn, you and I arrived in exactly the same year.

I did not get around to applying to PR until 2000, though. Received it in 2002. Applied for citizenship in 2007 -- I waited five years in the belief that one had to have PR for five years first, but that no longer seems to be the case.

Anyway, based on the timeline above, I hope to receive my citizenship in 2010.

1990 was a good year.

You will get it in 2010, give or take, yes. I applied in March 2004, and got it in April 2007, so it took almost exactly 3 years. Best to just put it to the back of your mind, checking up with the special branch every month or so. You will get it, but there is no way to hurry the process along. The inner workings at the Interior Ministry seem inscrutable, even to the Special Branch.

Patinbkk, dual citizenship is not the issue. The issue is having dual aliases: a Thai passport with a Thai name in it, and a Western passport with a (different) English name in it.

For example...I'm American. When I want to travel from Thailand to the US, what name should I reserve my flight under? When departing Thailand, I would use my Thai passport -- thus the boarding card would not match the passport on departure if I booked in my English name.

But if I booked the ticket in my Thai name, there would be the same problem on return: the ticket/boarding pass would not match my US identification. Would authorities allow me to board using a Thai passport with a Thai name as identification, even if I had not entered the country using that passport? Would major red flags be sent up once it was known that I had two separate aliases and was switching identities in mid-flight, as it were?

That's what I'd be concerned about.

I do know people who were naturalised when the rules stated that you had to take a Thai name, and they get visas put into their Thai passports for travel to places like the US, using their Thai passports for the entire journey, to avoid the possibility of problems arising from changing name mid flight. They tell me that getting such visas is easier if you have dual nationality (Thai plus western), but it still costs money and is a hassle. When the law changed, one of my Thai friends wanted to change his name back to his original name to solve this problem, but was told by his Ampher that he couldn't do this. It could be that the people at the Ampher didn't know the rules, but the concern is that once you change away from your original name it is hard to change back again.

Better to keep your original name.

Edited May 4, 2009 by dbrenn

[Richard4849]

Then of course you could always change your original name to your Thai name back in your home country to match your Thai documents. Not at all difficult to do in most places, and if you live 100% of your time in Thailand and want a Thai name (like I do), it might make sense.

[dbrenn]

Then of course you could always change your original name to your Thai name back in your home country to match your Thai documents. Not at all difficult to do in most places, and if you live 100% of your time in Thailand and want a Thai name (like I do), it might make sense.

I guess you could. Not sure how easy that would be in the UK - there is a process called Deed Poll but I think that it involves quite a bit of hassle. I don't mind using my original name, so never considered it.

[RAZZELL]

dbrenn

Just out of interest, how long have you lived in Thailand? And could you give us a timeframe for all your applications.

How long had you been in the Kingdom before you applied for PR, got PR 9 months later and how long after that before you applied for Thai citizenship.

Basically, how long from setting foot in Thailand until you got citizenship.

Many thanks

RAZZ

Moved to Thailand 1990, stayed on non-imm yearly extensions

Applied for PR 1997

Got PR 1998

Applied for citizenship 2004

Got citizenship 2007

The long delay before I applied for PR was because I didn't realise at the time that I was eligible for it until a friend got his. The delay applying for citizenship was laziness, and the fact that my upcountry Tabien Bahn meant that I couldn't apply in BKK. At that time (1998), there was no 5 year PR requirement and the special branch were willing to accept my application right after PR. I was very busy at work, so applying upcountry would have been too problematic, causing me to give up on the idea until I got a BKK Tabien Bahn. The 5 year PR requirement before you apply for citizenship comes and goes, so you should ask at the special branch what the situation is now.

So as you can see, it took me 17 years, but I could and should have done it much sooner. Immigratioon rules the world over only ever seem to get tougher, so the rule is: if you are eligible for something, apply for it as soon as you can. As other people have said here - getting Thai citizenship is no more difficult than PR these days.

So realistically, you could probably get PR in 5 years and apply for citizenship soon after. Then wait for the Ministry approval. So in approximately 8+ years you could get citizenship?

Many thanks for taking the time to post

RAZZ

[Richard4849]

Really depends on how fast the government is processing PR applications (as well as citizenship). I understand that that those who applied for PR in 2006 have still not been processed, almost three years later.

I'd say, approximately, as follows:

Three years before you can apply for PR

Two to three years to have PR granted

Three years to have citizenship granted

This is assuming that you no longer have to hold PR before applying for citizenship -- which was I believe the case under the Thaksin government. I have been told that rule no longer applies, but am not 100% sure.

So, that would make it 8-9 years at the very fastest....13-14 years if the Thaksin rules are still in place.

[TheChiefJustice]

PR is required before applying for citizenship - but you don't need to have it for 5 years. You do need to be able to show unbroken non-Imm visas for 5 years before applying for citizenship.

[dbrenn]

PR is required before applying for citizenship - but you don't need to have it for 5 years. You do need to be able to show unbroken non-Imm visas for 5 years before applying for citizenship.

Interesting. So given that this 5 year period includes time spent on non-imm, the theoretical minimum stay before citizenship would now be around 9 years:

1) Arrive in year 1 on a non-imm visa and start work, early enough in year 1 to accrue sufficient taxable income before the end of that year.

2) Collect PNG 91 tax returns for years 1,2 & 3. This would carry over into year 4. The the PNG 91 for year 3 necessary to apply for PR would be in hand in early year 4, too late to apply for PR at the end of year 3

3) Apply for PR at the and of year 4

4) Get PR in year 6 (seems to be a 2 year wait these days)

5) Apply for citizenship immediately PR is granted in year 6, having collected PNG 91 for all the preceding 3 years

6) Get citizenship around year 9 (assuming a 3 year wait for citizenship)

[TheChiefJustice]

Yes, dbrenn. That sounds right. I am hoping my citizenship comes through soon. I applied in May 2007, interviewed in July 2008. Honestly, the long wait is inexplicable.

[dbrenn]

Yes, dbrenn. That sounds right. I am hoping my citizenship comes through soon. I applied in May 2007, interviewed in July 2008. Honestly, the long wait is inexplicable.

The wait drove me nuts too, but there was nothing I could do about it. Even more frustrating was that it was over a year after the Interior Minister approved that I finally had the ID card and passport.

Thai bureacracy is not the most efficient in the world ...

[Arkady]

What happend to the "class action suit" of sexual discrimination ...... there was one guy so gung ho he was gonna do it

died a predictable death.

There is a thread on TV started by some one who got very hot under the collar and wanted to start some kind of protest of Thai wives on behalf of foreign husbands about this part of the Nationality Act (Section 9 that allows foreign women to adopt their husband's Thai nationality without requirement for 5 years residence, a regular occupation, knowledge of the Thai language and good behaviour) but it was rather incoherent and got closed. In fact the Ombudsman had already put the issue to the Constitutional Court before that time and the court had ruled that it was constitutional on grounds of national security.

On the other hand the Nationality Act of 2008 (which comprises amendments to the 1965 act, not a whole new act) introduced two concessions for foreign husbands of Thai wives in Section 11.4: 1) no need to have resided in Thailand for 5 years; 2) no need to have knowledge of the Thai language. It is not clear how these changes in the law have been interpreted by Special Branch and the Interior Ministry. The law has never specified that PR is required. This has only been required by ministerial regulations. Technically the only remaining difference between the requirements for a foreign woman married to a Thai and a foreign man married to a Thai, if we forget about the good behaviour requirement, is that foreign men married to Thais need to have a regular occupation and the minimum salaries and tax payments for men with Thai wives are much less than for those not married to Thais (although it's probable that they want to see much higher levels than the minimums which are only revised every 10-20 years). Nevertheless the PR documents still appear on the Special Branch checklist and I imagine that men married to Thais cannot opt out of the language and singing tests. Neither of these concessions would make any difference to me or friends that are interested in applying. Therefore I have not enquired about them with the Special Branch. As you see from this thread, it takes years for the Interior Ministry to process straightforward applications. It is possible that they are still considering the changes to the Nationality Act and wondering how best to implement them. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see them drop the PR requirement for men married to Thais sometime in the next few years. Logically, if there is no longer any residence requirement for them, there is no reason to make them get PR. There was quite a lot of discussion of this and other issues to do with Thai citizenship, including the points system, in a fairly recent thread. I would recommend any guy who is married to a Thai and wants to know if they will be able to apply for citizenship without getting PR first to go along and ask Special Branch, armed with a copy of the Nationality Act incorporating the 2008 amendments. Things may change suddenly but don't hold your breath.

Edited May 6, 2009 by Arkady