Dross

[ProfessorFart]

I just read this synopsis of Stephen Leather's Private Dancer from Stickman's weekly.

The novel is set in Thailand in 1996.  Pete, a young travel writer, wanders into a Bangkok bar and meets the love of his life.  Pete thinks that Joy is the girl of his dreams: young, stunningly pretty, and one of the top-earning gogo dancers in Nana Plaza.  What follows is a roller-coaster ride of sex, drugs, lies and murder, as Pete discovers that his very own private dancer is not all that she claims to be.  And that far from being the girl of his dreams, Joy is his own personal nightmare.  Without a doubt in my mind, this is the best book ever written about the Bangkok bar scene.

Now, I read the novel a while ago and thought it not only cliched but tedious nonsense. I have also read all of CG Moores books, and the dribble churned out by the others as well. Out of the lot I only liked Colin Piprell whose writing style was such that he managed to keep his tales alive through the sheer fact that he obviously didn't take himself too seriously. I can place my hand on my heart and say that I have yet to read a novel written by a Westerner set in Bangkok which is not tawdry dross as is churned out by these fellows.

The only redeeming factors I can find in the books of the 'expat' authors is that they may hit a nostalgic nerve every now and again. Apart from that I'm at a loss to understand their appeal and would be grateful to hear any of your thoughts on what they mean to you.

Edited January 31, 2005 by ProfessorFart

[mbkudu]

I tend to agree somewhat. I like CG Moore's books because of the feel of Thailand when I am not there, but the endings are usually uninspiring. The number of typos

drives me up the wall a bit too. Jack Needham has some class as an expat writer.

On the whole the lot don't compare to best seller authors. I read them when I am homesick.

Edited January 31, 2005 by mbkudu

[cdnvic]

Just from the synopsis you wrote professor, it looks to me like another "Guy meets girl who is hiding something" novel cut and pasted into a Bangkok night. Formulaic, and overdone.

Thanks for the warning

cv

[ProfessorFart]

Its not my synopsis! It came from Stickman's weekly. I read it and felt I had to post something about this nonsense!

[mbkudu]

Private Dancer is not intened to be high brow literature; just entertaining reading, which I thought it was. The way it is written in the first person from each character's point of view is different and interesting.

Edited January 31, 2005 by mbkudu

[ProfessorFart]

I don't even think its a case of highbrow or lowbrow here, but the fact that seeing as they have a captive audience, their output maintains a low standard of cliche ridden dribble.

Edited January 31, 2005 by ProfessorFart

[boris]

I just read this synopsis of Stephen Leather's Private Dancer from Stickman's weekly.

The novel is set in Thailand in 1996.  Pete, a young travel writer, wanders into a Bangkok bar and meets the love of his life.  Pete thinks that Joy is the girl of his dreams: young, stunningly pretty, and one of the top-earning gogo dancers in Nana Plaza.  What follows is a roller-coaster ride of sex, drugs, lies and murder, as Pete discovers that his very own private dancer is not all that she claims to be.  And that far from being the girl of his dreams, Joy is his own personal nightmare.  Without a doubt in my mind, this is the best book ever written about the Bangkok bar scene.

Now, I read the novel a while ago and thought it not only cliched but tedious nonsense. I have also read all of CG Moores books, and the dribble churned out by the others as well. Out of the lot I only liked Colin Piprell whose writing style was such that he managed to keep his tales alive through the sheer fact that he obviously didn't take himself too seriously. I can place my hand on my heart and say that I have yet to read a novel written by a Westerner set in Bangkok which is not tawdry dross as is churned out by these fellows.

The only redeeming factors I can find in the books of the 'expat' authors is that they may hit a nostalgic nerve every now and again. Apart from that I'm at a loss to understand their appeal and would be grateful to hear any of your thoughts on what they mean to you.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have to agree with this.The standard of western authors writing about modern Thailand is very poor.Most are self evidently badly written pulp dealing with bargirls, murder etc.Stephen Leather is at least a professional writer but his output is in my opinion second rate.I am always amused when "Private Dancer" is so fervently recommended.Christopher Moore is I think quite dreadful,clunky writing and cliched, not least because of his pretentiousness although he does know Bangkok reasonably well.Stickman's literary review could have been written by a ten year old, embarrassingly immature.On the positive side I thought John Burdett's "Bangkok 8" was well written and quite enjoyable.For a retro view on the bar scene try Jack Reynolds "A woman of Bangkok", although I think now out of print.

[ThaiPauly]

I thought Bangkok 8 was the best book I have read about LOS, and I have read most of them, I must say that Needham is also a very good writer IMHO, one to avoid is Hello My Big Hunni which I personally thought was awful

[mbkudu]

'Sleepless in Bangkok,' by Ian Quartermaine, give it a pass, not worth the 350 baht.

[Shola]

Colin Piprel has got Thai/falang antics down to a tee!

I've read 'Kicking Dogs' and 'Yawn' both a great read!

[The_Eye_Of_Sauron]

Private Dancer is pretty good. I've read it a couple of times. I downloaded it and printed it off.

Now there are tons of pulp Bangkok novels on the shelves at Bookazine. All ostensibly with exactly the same plot. Presumably self-published.

Don't like the Ian Quartermaine/Jake Anthony hookline that he employs on the covers. "If you don't like stories of underage boys being abused then don't buy this book" (something like that on 'King and Country') -

'Inside is the most explicit gay rape you'll ever read', (he uses that type of nugget on the cover of 'Sleepless in Bangkok'. In which he rants on about boys being abused at school.

Not difficult to see where the Pattaya-residing author stands on this matter. (or is it just a sick way of marketing?)

[aaaaaa]

...Jack Needham has some class as an expat writer....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree - I liked his few books too. although he too has a sort of judgmental style of an expert about thai ways etc. - he does have some interesting insights and observations though. and in general - many things which deserve to spend a thought or two about ...

[kreon]

I just read this synopsis of Stephen Leather's Private Dancer from Stickman's weekly.

The novel is set in Thailand in 1996.  Pete, a young travel writer, wanders into a Bangkok bar and meets the love of his life.  Pete thinks that Joy is the girl of his dreams: young, stunningly pretty, and one of the top-earning gogo dancers in Nana Plaza.  What follows is a roller-coaster ride of sex, drugs, lies and murder, as Pete discovers that his very own private dancer is not all that she claims to be.  And that far from being the girl of his dreams, Joy is his own personal nightmare.  Without a doubt in my mind, this is the best book ever written about the Bangkok bar scene.

Now, I read the novel a while ago and thought it not only cliched but tedious nonsense. I have also read all of CG Moores books, and the dribble churned out by the others as well. Out of the lot I only liked Colin Piprell whose writing style was such that he managed to keep his tales alive through the sheer fact that he obviously didn't take himself too seriously. I can place my hand on my heart and say that I have yet to read a novel written by a Westerner set in Bangkok which is not tawdry dross as is churned out by these fellows.

The only redeeming factors I can find in the books of the 'expat' authors is that they may hit a nostalgic nerve every now and again. Apart from that I'm at a loss to understand their appeal and would be grateful to hear any of your thoughts on what they mean to you.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

they're just all sex books in disguise targeted for the poor old guys in the west

it keeps them horny and thinking about their teeruks

so yeah its all crap, give me a good shakespeare anytime

au revoir

[The_Eye_Of_Sauron]

Jake Needham's relentessly repetitive PR campaign gets a bit tiring.

Always scowling in photos, expensive loafers, (no socks) smart blazer.

He claims to have successfully undertaken every glam career possible - from Investment Banker, to Hollywood scriptwriter to law expert. (and in mitigation - flipping burgers).

Cute wife though. (And the same can be said for Christopher Moore's better half) . This pair might write about the seamy underbelly - but they certainly don't marry it.

[DJ Pat]

Read most of it in the bookshop, same old story, and you can find better on this forum. YAWN.

[fourbaht]

Private Dancer is actually a true story, its Stephens own true story,

Read most of it in the bookshop, same old story, and you can find better on this forum. YAWN.

As far as I know its never been published thats why its a free download, his publishers did not want to publish it.

I know Stephen and think he had to write it to get it off his chest.

...Jack Needham has some class as an expat writer....

I would like to hear from any one who has met him to see if they still think he has class, certainly wasn't my opinion, I must admit however he is one of the better expat writers.

[The_Eye_Of_Sauron]

Leather once write an article for the UK Daily Mail, claiming that it was his own story.

However (and I don't want to give the end away), even if part is true, the ending can't be his personal experience.

[Shola]

Who wrote "The Big Mango" ? I can't think of the authors name but is it any good?I always see on the shelf at Asia Books, might/might not pick it up if someone can give me a brief review

[mbkudu]

...Jack Needham has some class as an expat writer....

I would like to hear from any one who has met him to see if they still think he has class, certainly wasn't my opinion, I must admit however he is one of the better expat writers.

Like I said, he has some class as an expat writer. I've never met the man, so he could be an absolute twit in the flesh. I have no idea.

[mbkudu]

Who wrote "The Big Mango" ? I can't think of the authors name but is it any good?I always see on the shelf at Asia Books, might/might not pick it up if someone can give me a brief review

It's by Jack Needham and yes it is quite good, but the storyline a bit far fetched if you asked me. A lawyer gets pulled back to Thailand from a letter he receives from someone. There is a lot of money involved that originated from an operation in Vietnam, ect, ect. Worht buying. One of his other books, 'Killing Plato,' I thought was better.

Edited January 31, 2005 by mbkudu

[pautai]

these writers appeal to newbie farangs but to old hands who have been there done it and have the T shirt its tedious tosh , i am just glad i got my time in when the Bar scene was exciting and off the wall and open all hours .

my gawd there is some rough women at the Nana complex these days

[Rinrada]

Private Dancer is actually a true story, its Stephens own true story,

Read most of it in the bookshop, same old story, and you can find better on this forum. YAWN.

As far as I know its never been published thats why its a free download, his publishers did not want to publish it.

I know Stephen and think he had to write it to get it off his chest.

...Jack Needham has some class as an expat writer....

I would like to hear from any one who has met him to see if they still think he has class, certainly wasn't my opinion, I must admit however he is one of the better expat writers.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Seem to remember bumpimg into them a couple of years ago in the Therme when chucking out time was around 7 -00am.

[Thaddeus]

I just read this synopsis of Stephen Leather's Private Dancer from Stickman's weekly.

The novel is set in Thailand in 1996.  Pete, a young travel writer, wanders into a Bangkok bar and meets the love of his life.  Pete thinks that Joy is the girl of his dreams: young, stunningly pretty, and one of the top-earning gogo dancers in Nana Plaza.  What follows is a roller-coaster ride of sex, drugs, lies and murder, as Pete discovers that his very own private dancer is not all that she claims to be.  And that far from being the girl of his dreams, Joy is his own personal nightmare.  Without a doubt in my mind, this is the best book ever written about the Bangkok bar scene.

Now, I read the novel a while ago and thought it not only cliched but tedious nonsense. I have also read all of CG Moores books, and the dribble churned out by the others as well. Out of the lot I only liked Colin Piprell whose writing style was such that he managed to keep his tales alive through the sheer fact that he obviously didn't take himself too seriously. I can place my hand on my heart and say that I have yet to read a novel written by a Westerner set in Bangkok which is not tawdry dross as is churned out by these fellows.

The only redeeming factors I can find in the books of the 'expat' authors is that they may hit a nostalgic nerve every now and again. Apart from that I'm at a loss to understand their appeal and would be grateful to hear any of your thoughts on what they mean to you.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

they're just all sex books in disguise targeted for the poor old guys in the west

it keeps them horny and thinking about their teeruks

so yeah its all crap, give me a good shakespeare anytime

au revoir

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I read Private Dancer years ago (give us a clue Thad... ok ... less than 6 and more than 4) .... I read it in one sitting, and it has single-handedly been the only reason why I have never ever read any other fictional work about LOS written by a farang since, and I have no intention of doing so in the future.

I'm with kreon on this one...... Shakespeare can get a little tedious though, and his recipes are awful

[mbkudu]

these writers appeal to newbie farangs but to old hands who have been there done it and have the T shirt its tedious tosh ,

Ooooooh! I am unworthy; I bow down before you oh wisened one

[Thaddeus]

these writers appeal to newbie farangs but to old hands who have been there done it and have the T shirt its tedious tosh ,

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ooooooh! I am unworthy; I bow down before you oh wisened one

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hey ... great word .... does it exist? Let's check! ... or did you mean This? .... possibly the only occurrence in this beautiful language of ours were a Z (that's a 'Zed') has not been used incorrectly

Self edit... edited for spelling ...

Edited January 31, 2005 by Thaddeus

[mbkudu]

these writers appeal to newbie farangs but to old hands who have been there done it and have the T shirt its tedious tosh ,

Ooooooh! I am unworthy; I bow down before you oh wisened one

Hey ... great word .... does it exist? Let's check! ... or did you mean This? .... possibly the only occurrence in this beautiful language of ours were a Z (that's a 'Zed') has not been used incorrectly

Self edit... edited for spelling ...

I can say whatever the #### I want as long as it's not dirty, right?

[charles]

For  a retro view on the bar scene try Jack Reynolds "A woman of Bangkok", although I think now out of print.

Absolutely agree, that book is different class to all the present dross. Written in the 1950s I think, quite a fascinating read. Describes a Thailand that is a different world to the present semi-industrial/semi-developed country. Equally fascinating to see how the mindsets, tactics, modus operandi of those in the bar scene has not changed one little bit.

Trying to think of that French expression about "plus ca change"

[Limbo]

these writers appeal to newbie farangs but to old hands who have been there done it and have the T shirt its tedious tosh ,

Ooooooh! I am unworthy; I bow down before you oh wisened one

Yes I too am on my knees already. These old hands really know their thing. As a newbie, only been living here since more than twenty years I feel I have to shut up. When the old hand speak, we silent. Old man good man. Old man stupid, no ploblem.

Private Dancer is remarcable good. For many I recommend it as obligatory litterature. But I am not an old hand.

To the 'old hand' concerned: did you ever try world sex dot com?

[PvtDick]

Can one who can't even spell "literature" know much about it?

[Jack Jones]

I don't think there's anything wrong with these novels. They're airport reading, nothing serious and good page turners