Thai Wife Collecting Social Securty

[koto]

S.S. payments from US, I marry, I die, how does she go about collecting, what should one do to make it an easy turn over, Thank you

[The Snark]

S.S. payments from US, I marry, I die, how does she go about collecting, what should one do to make it an easy turn over, Thank you

I have been researching this and drawing a complete blank. If you move her to America you can undertake the process of her getting naturalization. However, if you both remain outside the US the INS seems to have the cards stacked heavily against you. I would like to hear if anyone has anything further to contribute regarding this.

The alternative that many seem to opt for is to get your SSI in an automatic bank deposit and you just set her up with an ATM card. While this is strictly illegitimate, being your wife, should you jump through the various hoops of fire the INS sets up, she would qualify for some portion of those benefits anyway.

Edited April 28, 2009 by The Snark

[Mrjlh]

S.S. payments from US, I marry, I die, how does she go about collecting, what should one do to make it an easy turn over, Thank you

I checked with Soc Sec when I was there last January. They say she has to reside in the US for at least 5 years in the same house hold to be eligible but needs to married for 10 years. Then she will only get a small portion. The longer, the more she can claim. You can also travel back and forth during that as long as them majority of time is stateside. I also read this on the Social Security website but haven't been able to find it again. I know the 10 year rule applies to any married US citizen. If I can find the link again I'll post it.

[wildoates]

That is the way it was explained to me, she has to be in the states 5 years and married 10 years. I think that sucks, considering some in the US are drawing it and never paid a penny into it.

[Mrjlh]

Well, I found the info for you. First in my talk with SS, we were talking about a Thai who was in the process of becoming a citizen. So I think that's where the 5 year rule came from. Has nothing to do with benefits. The 10 year rule comes if you get divorced.

Now to answer your question. Simply put it's "NINE MONTHS". But there are conditions. Here is the link:

http://ssa-custhelp.ssa.gov/cgi-bin/ssa.cf...amp;p_topview=1

One of the conditions is you have to prove the marriage was legal and they had USA residence during that time plus all the other requirements. Which seem to change frequently.

Here is the main "survivor" link: http://www.ssa.gov/pubs/10084.html#3

Hopefully that answers your questions.

[Wrong Turn]

That is the way it was explained to me, she has to be in the states 5 years and married 10 years. I think that sucks, considering some in the US are drawing it and never paid a penny into it.

I think the people drawing that never paid into it are disabled, of some sort.

IMO, US taxpayers should not being for foreign wives who become citizens unless they pay into SS, get vested, and then they get the formula alloted to them.

Especially with younger wives who may live 30 years after the husband, dies.

[rowley]

S.S. payments from US, I marry, I die, how does she go about collecting, what should one do to make it an easy turn over, Thank you

I have been researching this and drawing a complete blank. If you move her to America you can undertake the process of her getting naturalization. However, if you both remain outside the US the INS seems to have the cards stacked heavily against you. I would like to hear if anyone has anything further to contribute regarding this.

The alternative that many seem to opt for is to get your SSI in an automatic bank deposit and you just set her up with an ATM card. While this is strictly illegitimate, being your wife, should you jump through the various hoops of fire the INS sets up, she would qualify for some portion of those benefits anyway.

This brings up an interesting point. If the recipient dies in Thailand while having his pension automatically deposited into his US account how would SS Administration ever be notified of the death?

[Mike45]

I've looked into this as well.

For your wife to be able to claim social security benefits while she is living in Thailand she MUST be a US citizen. As a legal alien with a green card she can only get the benefits if she is living in the USA.

Mike

[skipvice]

I've looked into this as well.

For your wife to be able to claim social security benefits while she is living in Thailand she MUST be a US citizen. As a legal alien with a green card she can only get the benefits if she is living in the USA.

Mike

Sorry thats not true, an alien with a green card can draw Ssa in thailand if her husband died or she has earned Benefits herself in the usa.

Call the US Embassy or contact SSA Office in the P.I. to get your questions answered.

Edited April 29, 2009 by skipvice

[Heng]

This brings up an interesting point. If the recipient dies in Thailand while having his pension automatically deposited into his US account how would SS Administration ever be notified of the death?

Been contemplating that (as my folks both receive benefits via direct deposit into their BOA accounts); I assume it's up to the children (or other close relatives) to notify the SSA. My folks don't withdraw these funds to Thailand so I suppose it's possible that there might just be a reversal if the SSA contacts BOA?

It's fraud if you withdraw these funds when you close out their accounts/assets. It's up to your moral compass as to whether you have an issue with it (since it's unlikely that payments would be cut off until they didn't response to a SSA inquiry). I think PB mentioned that there are surveys sent out periodically but my folks have yet to get one.

[Wrong Turn]

This brings up an interesting point. If the recipient dies in Thailand while having his pension automatically deposited into his US account how would SS Administration ever be notified of the death?

SSA perform a 'proof' or notarization process to confirm that recipients are actually still alive. I forgot how it's actually done. Fraud would be difficult I think, but it's possible.

[lopburi3]

Death of a foreign national is reported to there Embassy.

[Heng]

But not when those folks are dual or triple citizens of other countries. All the Thai gov't would know is that Somsak Heng died on the local citizens registry. They'd have no idea to contact the US Embassy to let them know that Sammy Heng SS#... had passed.

[old wanderer]

I know that when I started drawing my SS I listed my Thai wife and her SS number as well.

For a little something to raise the blood pressure....Some years ago I was living with a Thai, and wanted to deduct support of her 2 kids....SS said no UNLESS SHE WAS A MEXICAN....and to be able to do this I would have to apply for SS cards for all my MEXICAN children, then they are entitled to full benefits...

Ever wonder why I system is going bankrupt??

[Mrjlh]

But not when those folks are dual or triple citizens of other countries. All the Thai gov't would know is that Somsak Heng died on the local citizens registry. They'd have no idea to contact the US Embassy to let them know that Sammy Heng SS#... had passed.

When a person applies for "dual" citizenship, both Embassy's are involved. One contacts the other automatically.

When you die in another country, that country goes out of its way in locating "your" country (slowly sometimes) because it doesn't want to bare the expense of burying you. Your Embassy will then make all the official notifications. At least the ones they can find.

Your "foreign wife" only has to prove they lived in the US for 9 months continuously with "you" and it has to be an officially recognized marriage. And she still needs to meet several other conditions of which SS can make it easy or very hard meaning they could deny it and then she'd need to appeal it. To appeal it she'd need to be "represented" in the US or be there herself. So it's not always easy. But you're Dead...you will never know. She doesn't need a "Green Card". She could be in the US on a student visa or such. If would think if she's there illegally then they can deny it. Common sense prevails.

[Mike45]

I've looked into this as well.

For your wife to be able to claim social security benefits while she is living in Thailand she MUST be a US citizen. As a legal alien with a green card she can only get the benefits if she is living in the USA.

Mike

Sorry thats not true, an alien with a green card can draw Ssa in thailand if her husband died or she has earned Benefits herself in the usa.

Call the US Embassy or contact SSA Office in the P.I. to get your questions answered.

I have found that I was both correct and incorrect. She had to have lived as your wife for 5 years in the USA to qualify. As usual I was only paying attention to my particular situation and how to obtain MY desired outcome. For us it is obtaining US citizenship in 3 years while living in the US.

I find most of this stuff to be very confusing at times. I also try not to rely on verbal government responses.

I was referring to this.

Additional residency requirements for dependents and survivors:

If you receive benefits as a dependent or survivor of the worker, special requirements may affect your right to receive Social Security payments while you are outside the U.S. If you are not a U.S. citizen, you must have lived in the U.S. for at least five years. During that five years, the family relationship on which benefits are based must have existed.

Children may meet this residency requirement on their own or may be considered to meet the residency requirement if it is met by the worker and other parent (if any). However, children adopted outside the U.S. will not be paid outside the U.S., even if the residency requirement is met.

The residency requirement will not apply to you if you meet any of the following conditions:

• You were initially eligible for monthly benefits before January 1, 1985; or

• You are entitled on the record of a worker who died while in the U.S. military service or as a result of a service-connected disease or injury; or

• You are a citizen of one of the countries listed below;

• Austria

• Belgium

• Canada

• Chile

• Finland

• France

• Germany • Greece

• Ireland

• Israel

• Italy

• Japan

• Korea (South)

• Luxembourg • Netherlands

• Norway

• Portugal

• Spain

• Sweden

• Switzerland

• United Kingdom

http://www.socialsecurity.gov/pubs/10084.html

http://www.socialsecurity.gov/pubs/10137.html#additional

Please take a look at it and let me know how you interpret it because I might be wrong.

Also try the benefit eligibility tool at the government web site to help you learn about your particular situation.

http://connections.govbenefits.gov/ssa_en.portal

I hope it works out favorably for you.

Thanks

Mike

Edited April 30, 2009 by Mike45

[Heng]

But not when those folks are dual or triple citizens of other countries. All the Thai gov't would know is that Somsak Heng died on the local citizens registry. They'd have no idea to contact the US Embassy to let them know that Sammy Heng SS#... had passed.

When a person applies for "dual" citizenship, both Embassy's are involved. One contacts the other automatically.

When you die in another country, that country goes out of its way in locating "your" country (slowly sometimes) because it doesn't want to bare the expense of burying you. Your Embassy will then make all the official notifications. At least the ones they can find.

That might be true in some cases... say if they found you dead on the street with your passport on you... but if you died in a local hospital here, among family and friends (these are typically the folks who will bury or creamate you), and you were on your hospital registry and in country as a local citizen, then there's no reason to contact any embassy. In fact, it's completely up to the family to report the death to the local amphur and have your name removed from your house registry. And when that is done, there isn't any automatic mechanism to match your Thai name to other countries databases to automatically declare you dead. One reason why foreign insurance companies always need the Thai death certs, as there is no "automatic sync" of databases.

This more to the point commonly evident by the number of cases of benefits fraud after the recipient passes away. It's extremely common even within fairly organized systems in the same country. There's no reason to believe that it would become more efficient across borders and completely different vital stats/record keeping systems.

Edited May 1, 2009 by Heng

[ballbreaker]

S.S. payments from US, I marry, I die, how does she go about collecting, what should one do to make it an easy turn over, Thank you

As many have pointed out if she has never been in the US she will not receive any death benefits.

Another option you have if a military veteran during one of the many wars would be a monthly death benefit when you kick off. Check the VA website for details and time periods covered to see you qualify.