Building A Cool House

[Highwayman]

I'm considering building a small house up country. Most likely a single storey place. I was interested in what suggestions anyone may have on how to make a house in Thailand as cool as possible, so as to minimise the use of air-conditioning. I would be building a modern style place rather than a traditional wooden style house.

One thing that l've asked a few local people about and which l just get a blank look in reply is insulation. In Australia all new houses have to be built with ceiling insulation which reduces the temperature by a few degrees. Has anyone built a house here and insulated it? If so what was your experience? Is there a wide range of products available and at what sort of price? In Australia you see insulation (Bradford Batts, Insulwool etc.) advertised often on tv, can't recall ever seeing it advertised on Thai tv.

All suggestions appreciated.

[chico]

i have finished my house about 15 month ago, have no ceiling insulation - thought about it, but did not do.

what i have done is wall insulation : all outside walls are double with about 3 cm between, open atop - helps some, but i agree, added roof insulation would be even better - at that time just had enough of all those troubles and wanted to finish as quick as possible.

[Erwin1011]

I'm considering building a small house up country. Most likely a single storey place. I was interested in what suggestions anyone may have on how to make a house in Thailand as cool as possible, so as to minimise the use of air-conditioning. I would be building a modern style place rather than a traditional wooden style house.

One thing that l've asked a few local people about and which l just get a blank look in reply is insulation. In Australia all new houses have to be built with ceiling insulation which reduces the temperature by a few degrees. Has anyone built a house here and insulated it? If so what was your experience? Is there a wide range of products available and at what sort of price? In Australia you see insulation (Bradford Batts, Insulwool etc.) advertised often on tv, can't recall ever seeing it advertised on Thai tv.

All suggestions appreciated.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

113/32,Moo5, Soi 14 Pattaya-Naklua Road

Naklua

Banglamung, Chonburi, 20150

Thailand

www.1stplanet.com/lohr-trade

Talk to these guys. german very trust worthy. have office also in CM &Bkk.

[Erwin1011]

i have finished my house about 15 month ago, have no ceiling insulation - thought about it, but did not do.

what i have done is wall insulation : all outside walls are double with about 3 cm between, open atop - helps some, but i agree, added roof insulation would be even better - at that time just had enough of all those troubles and wanted to finish as quick as possible.

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Did you find a mason that was able to do this? I was thinking about same.

[pluto_manibo]

you can do the following;

a) thin aluminium insulation to put under the roof tiles....

use thicker fiberglass insulation with aluminium foil around to put on top of you ceiling(3 inches-6 inches)...make sure the wires and any electricity is properly isolated.

c) another option is to have either/or both your roof and ceilings spray foamed in Pattaya there are several companies doing this....

d) also install one or two aluminum extractor to let the air circulate..let cool air come in and hot air come out...they are made of aluminum and have a circular revolving shape.

If you are a " do it yourself" kind of guy and want to save money, go to the nearest Homepro or equivalent and get the foam and thin aluminium foils...you will have several to choose from...good luck!

[chico]

i have finished my house about 15 month ago, have no ceiling insulation - thought about it, but did not do.

what i have done is wall insulation : all outside walls are double with about 3 cm between, open atop - helps some, but i agree, added roof insulation would be even better - at that time just had enough of all those troubles and wanted to finish as quick as possible.

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Did you find a mason that was able to do this? I was thinking about same.

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unfortunately i'm not a working guy, have never worked manually in my life, but have some experiences from two houses i had built in europe.

i had to stay almost permanently at the building site, and tell them exactly what and most of the times "how" to do it, since many times mi ideas are different from the thai way. luckily, my wife has a big family, three of her brothers are working as builders, and we got experienced people for rooftiles, floor tiles etc.

but cost a lot of energy and nervs! to get it done not like "we have always done it" but your way.

fair enough at the end they agreed, that it was really a nice house (maybe mainly because they had so much more weeks work than normal ?)

[tuky]

I have heard good things about that spray on foam, I have never seen it before though (not in this application anyhow) and it seems to be cheap enough, at a very minimum you will need to have the alu sheets under your tiles.

[penzman]

Here's one of the companies for the foam spray.

http://www.arcaircon.com/foam/products.html

I ve thought about getting it done but we have a steady breeze comnig from front to back of the house and the attic is extremely well ventilated.

The foam is highly recommended as it prevents bugs and rats from getting in and chewing on the wiring. With your roof tiles sprayed from beneath, you should never have to worry about any leaks as well.

I doubt the thin insulation sheets I've seen here would make much difference...

[COBBER]

Ceiling insullation works better when you have a big variation in the daily max and min temperatures such as in oz where it can be as much as 20 to 30 degrees. In thailand in most areas the variation is not more than 10 degrees, so ceiling insulation will work but not as effectively. I think this is why you dont see it as much here.I believe that the spray on method is much better than the bat style insulation and also more expensive.

[COBBER]

When referring to spray on method in the previous post i meant the type where they spray where the bats would sit on top of the ceiling as opposed to under the tiles . Its usualy a paper mache and chemical compound and this is supposedly better than the bats . Sorry but im not sure if this method is available in thailand.

[lopburi3]

Ceiling insullation works better when you have a big variation in the daily max and min temperatures such as in oz where it can be as much as 20 to 30 degrees. In thailand in most areas the variation is not more than 10 degrees, so ceiling insulation will work but not as effectively. I think this is why you dont see it as much here.I believe that the spray on method is much better than the bat style insulation and also more expensive.

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Take a trip up to the attic mid-day and tell me the temp difference is only 10 degrees.

Most homes have a huge heat buildup unless using active vents like a fan or turbine cooler and believe most homes these days do use fiberglass batts on upstairs ceiling (Microfiber has been making here for several decades). It is cheap and easy to do in both new and old construction.

But the shade tree is really the best insulation material if you have the choice.

[Jai Dee]

The spray-on foam is not only good for rodent protection and waterproofing, it is also supposed to be an effective human intruder barrier as well.

[dvk1951]

Ceiling insullation works better when you have a big variation in the daily max and min temperatures such as in oz where it can be as much as 20 to 30 degrees. In thailand in most areas the variation is not more than 10 degrees, so ceiling insulation will work but not as effectively. I think this is why you dont see it as much here.I believe that the spray on method is much better than the bat style insulation and also more expensive.

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Take a trip up to the attic mid-day and tell me the temp difference is only 10 degrees.

Most homes have a huge heat buildup unless using active vents like a fan or turbine cooler and believe most homes these days do use fiberglass batts on upstairs ceiling (Microfiber has been making here for several decades). It is cheap and easy to do in both new and old construction.

But the shade tree is really the best insulation material if you have the choice.

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This forum is a rather interesting subject and one I have given thought to myself after observing my high cooling bills which brings up another issue. The temp delta is an issue to be considered if you are using AC. The concept of insulation is an issue of heat gain/loss and this is where insulation is an asset. The ceiling has the highest loss/gain and should be the first consideration followed by the walls.

The other issue that has not been mentioned and can be a factor is the possibility of condensation buildup due to large temp delta and high humidity. This does not seem to be much of a problem in Thailand but I think we have all seen our car AC's "smoking" with moisture at one time or another so it is a potential problem. The best way to avoid this problem is thru the use of attic fans to lower the temp delta and vapor barrier which can be plastic or foil.

The foam spray-on insulatiion is a good method if applied properly but it does create new problems should you ever want to do any repairs/remodeling due to the fact that it takes a lot more labor to remove and would require a 'touchup' to ensure integrity of the insulation. I dont know the cost of rollled batting/fiberglass insulation but it works quite well in ceilings with proper weight support and can be reused.

Hope this helps,

[penzman]

The spray-on foam is not only good for rodent protection and waterproofing, it is also supposed to be an effective human intruder barrier as well. 

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Don't mention that to the wife. How am I supposed to get back in when I'm drunk, left my key somewhere and she's locked the doors?

[Diggerbasher]

Had a quote for the spray on foam from a German outfit in Pattaya and they quoted 140,000 so went for the on the ceiling option.

[simcity]

i went to world trade center bangkok ( they change name now ) , they use to have a information shop for building house ! they put me in touch with a company where i got some insulation , 5670 bahts for 12 meter * 4.5 meter .

it is 6 years ago , forgot where and how many rolls, just still have the price spend in xl

electrician put it for me .

i am not sure if this info place still exist ..

[COBBER]

If there are any forum members that have put in the bat type ceiling insulation could they please post and let us the cost of insullation and approx. savings on electricity bills.

[Highwayman]

Thanks for all the replies. The spray on foam sounded good from the weblink but 140,000 baht scares me if that is correct. I'm looking at around one million for the house so 140,000 is out of the question.

I visited the local Home Pro store where l got a leaflet and some samples of the aluminium foil insulation. The prices quoted were 486 baht for an 8 metre roll, 5mm thick. The 9mm thickness was available in a 4 metre roll for 567 baht. larger sized rolls at a better price are available.

The website for the manufacturer, M-PE Insulation is here.

The heat extractors or whirly gigs as they are known in Australia are something l had forgotten about. I had to have several installed to solve an overheating problem in a roof space that would cause sensors to shut down fan motors on very hot days, thinking that they were about to overheat. Installing the whirly gigs solved that problem so if they can be installed with the aluminium foil l think l will go with that.

Also we have a couple of hundred coconut trees behind the house site which should provide some further insulation from the heat.

[pautai]

the problem is if you use a standard concrete construction with the usual roofing sections the place absorbs the heat all day long like a sponge

all these features are wrong for a hot climate. hence more air con required.

timber is less heat absorbing .

ideally you want reflective roof sections to get rid off the heat .but i have never seen reflective roof panels in LOS

i guess solar power would be advisable but expensive to install .

[dvk1951]

So does this mean you will be changing your nick from "Highwayman" to "Homesteader".

Looks like you are on the right track, after visiting the the foil backed insulation website (and getting a good laugh regarding some if the data and language, definitely a LOS company), it looks to be a product that should do the job. Wonder why the statement that it is good for " +10 years ". Does this stuff break down after 10 years?

Also, if you can afford it, the thicker the insulation, the better the insulation factor.

Would love to see some stat's on the impact of insulation regarding interior temps and cooling costs in Thailand.

Also, with all those coconut palms and a jungle at your back door you might want to confirm that the foam is not made from the local fruit or you may have an attic full of monkeys.

The heat extraction fans are a very good idea, run with it.

Good luck and happy homesteading.

[Kringle]

If you really want a great insulation for your house, there's a cpmpany that does a spray on apllication that is safer and better than any foam or fuberglass roll. Don't want to break any rules, so PM me and I can give you the contact info.

[hetchie]

I'm considering building a small house up country. Most likely a single storey place. I was interested in what suggestions anyone may have on how to make a house in Thailand as cool as possible, so as to minimise the use of air-conditioning. I would be building a modern style place rather than a traditional wooden style house.

One thing that l've asked a few local people about and which l just get a blank look in reply is insulation. In Australia all new houses have to be built with ceiling insulation which reduces the temperature by a few degrees. Has anyone built a house here and insulated it? If so what was your experience? Is there a wide range of products available and at what sort of price? In Australia you see insulation (Bradford Batts, Insulwool etc.) advertised often on tv, can't recall ever seeing it advertised on Thai tv.

All suggestions appreciated.

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[hetchie]

Having built over 25 houses here in Thailand the double wall, cavity option makes a huge differance as well as providing additional sound insulation.

There is an Israeli ceiling insulation system that reduces the heat factor in most rooms by up to 5 degrees.

A sticky coating that actually goes on top of the ceiling plaster baord, very goodin palm tree areas if a coconut goes through the roof tile it genrally will alnd on the ceiling with the force of it taken out.

Depend sthough on the builder you are using, you will ahev to source the product direct from Bangkok.

[jerry921]

I've got 2 cents worth: make sure you do the walls, leave the ceiling insulation for later if you don't have the budget now.

I own (mortgaged) a house in California (San Jose area). Its old and was originally built with no insulation at all. None in the walls, none in the attic. The walls leak like a sieve, and I could probably save $200 a winter or better if I had good wall insulation. But it would be a huge hassle to have it retrofitted in the walls (holes every 18 inches up high all along the walls inside to blow the stuff in, then repair and repaint the whole interior).

Won't pay for itself for many years due to the relatively short heating season.

At some point in the last 30 years the attic was done with the "blow in" kind of loose insulation. They come in a truck, run a large diameter hose up into your attic, and the hose belches these tufts of insulation. They wave it around until you've got a layer a few inches deep between all the ceiling joists. Probably wasn't too expensive to get put in, and not difficult at all, no damage to repair.

But X years on, it looks awful. Its really dirty due to all the dirt that gets blown through attics. If it had been the foil-edged fiberglass rolls the dirt could be vacuumed up right off the aluminum foil. Hopefully the next buyer won't look into the attic.

The rolled aluminum-foil-edged stuff can be installed yourself very easily if its available in the right width to fit between the ceiling joists. You could spread the work out even, if you only wanted to work on it an hour a day.

I don't know about this spray-on stuff they're talking about. And obviously any insulation that is installed as a part of the roof system you want to do during construction. Those mushroom shaped fan-vent things seem like something you don't want to overlook. You should find out from someone who knows something if you want more than one of them -- maybe if you have two one of them can get to spinning backwards? And that might be a good or a bad thing??

Edited February 9, 2005 by jerry921

[roiet]

Having built over 25 houses here in Thailand the double wall, cavity option makes a huge differance as well as providing additional sound insulation.

There is an Israeli ceiling insulation system that reduces the heat factor in most rooms by up to 5 degrees.

A sticky coating that actually goes on top of the ceiling plaster baord, very goodin palm tree areas if a coconut goes through the roof tile it genrally will alnd on the ceiling with the force of it taken out.

Depend sthough on the builder you are using, you will ahev to source the product direct from Bangkok.

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[/quote

Here in Roi et it is sometimes 38 degrees. I visited some falang houses here with same design as you describe. This design reduces the heat factor inside really by 5-6 degrees. One falang built the house and the roof the same way you did but the roof with a 45 degree angle and 2 very small windows on both side of the house just below the rooftop. Like this the wind can blow trough the rooftop and act like a real aircon.

He also built the house the chinese way facing east-west the major wind direction. The result is amazing: 35 degrees outside, 28 degrees inside.

[tutsiwarrior]

there is an outfit somewhere in LOS that advertises in the BKK Post regularly in the classified section for spray foam and also for mats for ceiling insulation...check it out. Using mats and knowing the thermal conductivity I can calculate a cold face temp given the ambient and thickness of the mat.

Mats are good for installed ceilings but maybe complicated for application to slanted roof tiles. Every week in the BKK Post in the home and services section where vendors list in the classifieds...

if you chose this option let us know how it turns out...

[PalmTrees]

Hi,

My experience in home building in Thailand, is that foil roof insulation is imperitive to keep air con costs down. If you can build with a double skin wall, leaving a cavity of approimately 50 - 75mm all the better as it acts as a heat break to the inside wall.

The cost of roof insulation can seem expensive, but if you take in to consideration the savings on air con, it actually works out better in the long run.

We did consider a lot of alternatives, ranging in price but decided to go for the proven methods in the end.

Hope this helps

[strawberry]

I have friends back in Australia who used saw dust as insulation and swear by it. Besides it was free. I've wondered if rice husks would work, perhaps packed into plastic bags. I've seen my family store ice in rice husks and its lasted a couple of days. Seems to me that if the roof space is well protected against wee beasts it work. How about some feed back on this.

Regards Joe

[ZZZ]

The roof insulation will mainly help during the night as there will be less heat stored. This will reduce the night time aircon cost. It will probably not make that much off a difference during daytime if you normally have the windows open for a fresh breeze.

If you have the windows closed and use the aircon daytime the best would be to install double glazing windows. Just put a hand on the window in an airconditioned room and what you will feel is the outside temperature, massive temperature loss and high aircon cost.

[Dah fahrang]

Bigger branches of Big C & Cement Thai/Homemart sell the rolls of rockwool/fibreglass with foil overcoating. We did whole house for around 5000 baht (150sq m) including local labour! Thickness: about 5cm.

If you can get into your roof through trap-door, (or get someone else to climb in) job can be done in under a day. My house has all cabling in plastic conduit, so the rolls were easily laid over the top with no problem.

Difference is staggering. We runtwo air cons all night - our monthly electric bill has dropped by >300 baht - running at exactly same temperature setting as before. And, with bedroom door kep closed, bedroom stays cool all day - without air con running. So, when a/c turned on at night, takes less energy to restore room to 24C.

Highly recommended. Piece of p*ss to do.