If Al Gore Is Right And Temps Increase By 5 Degrees

[teatree]

About all that can be said for threads like this is that they at least reveal just how stupid and ill-informed most people are. There is an Everest, no a Himalaya, of evidence to support theories of anthropogenic climate change and against this the "skeptics" (though better-named simply idiots) have not a sand grain of counter-evidence. Concentrations of atmospheric CO2, along with other greenhouse gases, are known to have increased. Average temperatures are known to have increased. Climate change is happening now. There is no debate as to the whether or not anthropogenic climate change is real, at least for those who are, at a minimum, on speaking terms with reality. There is, however, debate, amongst other things, about the degree of sensitivity of the climate to increased concentrations of greenhouse gases and of how feedback mechanisms are operating. Of course, much as people deny the reality of the holocaust, or evolution, or the moon landings, idiots will always insist that climate change is a myth. They are wrong and remain idiots.

But to respond to the OP, a five degree increase in temperatures (and that would be an increase in 5 degrees on average globally by the end of the century, not within 15 years) would put the entire world safely in the truly – and possibly on human timescales irredeemably – f_ucked category. It wouldn’t really matter whether you were in Thailand or Tyneside, chances are you’d be screwed (and don’t forget that by the end of this century, world population will, all things being equal, be 50% higher than at present so things are going to be a mite tricky anyway). Plant yields will fall in higher temperatures and there’s a good chance that the Asian monsoon will be disrupted, with obvious consequences. Couple this with a drying up of glacial melt water and significantly more violent weather events and huge swathes of the world will be under very, very major water stress. Huge migration can be expected as food production and distribution breaks down, coastal population centres become increasingly uninhabitable and as life in the tropics becomes simply unbearable. There’s a very good book available called “Six Degrees” which goes into some detail about the consequences of a temperature rise of, in turn, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6 degrees and unlike the wishful thinking of climate-change deniers, it’s based on peer-reviewed papers. It makes for grim reading but I thoroughly recommend it.

There are a lot of ill-informed people who have seen 'An Inconvenient Truth' and the graph showing the relation between temperature and CO2, to them this proves that CO2 is the driver for climate change. I used to be one of them.

What these people don't understand (because nobody in the mainstream media mentions this) is that temperature increases FIRST and then after a lag of as much as several centuries CO2 increases, hence the correlation on the graph.

The fundamental argument for man-made climate change is flawed and the number of scientists who understand this is growing exponentially.

[Lickey]

is that temperature increases FIRST ,,,,

So know you can tell us why the temperature increased ??

[JetsetBkk]

is that temperature increases FIRST ,,,,

So know you can tell us why the temperature increased ??

Well, it wasn't because of man!

[BygonKeaw]

dont tell me that u lot have fallen for the global warming scam??

There is plenty of info out there telling u why there fear mongering u.

ps isnt al gore an illuminati??? of course he is. Dont be a sheeple and take back your brain.

Edited May 7, 2009 by BygonKeaw

[BygonKeaw]

global warming exposed in 10 minutes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYg7YE7NNvs

cheers

[Jingthing]

global warming exposed in 10 minutes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYg7YE7NNvs

cheers

Clearly an American right wing political piece. Not science and Americans know that the US right wing has had opposition to science as a core part of their ideology. I think the video may be from this right wing group: http://cei.org/

Such groups are notoriously phobic about the US cooperating in any way with the international community of nations. They have nightmares about one world government, they are obsessed.

This isn't a matter of a taxation discussion, its about the future of our species on this planet. The stuff in the video about the Nazis and eugenics was truly CREEPY. This is your best shot to counter Al Gore? AMAZING.

Edited May 7, 2009 by Jingthing

[MeetJohnDoe]

I don't really give a rat's arse about global warming as I don't have any kids and I'll be long dead before there is any real effect on the environment (50 or so years from now). Besides, in the long run, the earth is going to stop rotating on its axis so one side will be in permanent daylight and the other in permanent darkness; the earth's orbit around the sun is decaying and will eventually plunge into it (while getting warmer all the time; and in any event, the sun will eventually become a red-giant star and expand in size to engulf the earth...so in the long run, we're all dead.

[Jingthing]

Yeah, we're all dead, but I guess I am just a romantic homosexual and like the idea that hundreds and thousands of years from now there still will be beautiful young men falling in love with other beautiful young men. We are a very good looking species if I do say so myself. Plus we have ART. I don't know about other planets, but even dolphins don't have any great writers, painters, and musicians, etc. It would be such a shame for all that to end before its time, by our OWN hands. Yes, I do realize that gila monsters are attractive to each other, that's their bizness.

Edited May 7, 2009 by Jingthing

[Texpat]

Someone care to explain this nonsense? ^

[Jingthing]

Someone care to explain this nonsense? ^

Well, what I am saying is that all of us are part of our species. You don't have to have physical children to feel connected and concerned about the future of our species and having an earth home to survive in is job one. In the best case scenario we could survive to colonize another planet when earth is doomed, but not at this rate.

[JR Texas]

You err on the side of caution and yet roll the dice hoping that a few irresponsible scientists (paid for by the oil industry) are right and the 99.9% of responsible scientists who are studying the phenomenon and publishing in peer review journals are wrong.

This is a perfect example of the kind of bullsheet that puts most people off and why normal people often ignore what you are saying. There are plenty of legit, responsible scientists who would say that you are wrong, but you pretend that it is only a few nuts and then wonder why the world ends up ignoring you.

Why not be honest and admit that not everyone who cares for the planet agrees with you and take it from there?

The earth is flat.......really........the idea that is is not flat is a myth put out by irresponsible scientists........in reality, there are plenty of legitimate, responsible scientists who know for a fact that the earth is flat.

Smoking tobacco is good for you.........really........etc., etc.

I will be honest and admit that not everyone who cares for the planet agrees with what is now the overwhelming consensus among scientists worldwide: that the current global warming even is real and largely the result of human activities.

I am almost fascinated by the mindset/thinking process of those who chose to ignore it or downplay it. What are they thinking? What inner ideas form their opinions and influence their decision making?

I wonder how many of those who believe that global warming is a myth conjured up by the "left" have ever taken a biology course.........or actually studied atmospheric science or chemistry, etc.

Having said that, I know human beings are complex animals. It would not be natural if we all agreed. History will tell us who was right and wrong........or partly right/wrong.

Even if we turn out to be wrong........and I don't think there is much of a chance of that happening........I think it is a dangerous game to not err on the side of caution.

I respect your opinion but strongly disagree with you and hope that you will do more research.........I will continue to do more research and if I ever reach the point where I agree with you based on new information, I will let you know.

[bonobo]

At different times, the earth has been so hot that there were jungles in antarctica and so cold that the entire planet was covered by ice.  So the current trend towards global warming could be caused entirely by natural fluctuations without any input by man, although more logical person would agree that mankind has at least had some impact on the situation.

Mankind has caused numerous cases of microclimate changes through deforestation, pollution, cities, even dams.  Just look at the daily temperatures.  Temperatures in cities are usually several degrees warmer than temperatures in the surrounding countryside.  So if we can affect the microclimates, wouldn't it be logical to assume that all those microclimate changes could add up to have at least some effect on the overall climate of the world?

Regardless of the cause, it seems as if the head-in-the-sand "there is no global warming" crowd simply want to keep the staus quo of fossil fuel consumption and creation of pollution.  Even if global warming was entirely natural, does that mean we ignore it?  We build homes with heating to escape the cold of winter, right?  So we are not adverse to trying to control the climate in which we live.

Ironically, one of the big threats of global warming in the freezing of Europe.  Most of northern Europe is on the same latitudes as Canada.  If the engine which runs the Gulf Stream dies, London's winter  temperatures will more resemble Toronto's than Atlanta's. THe reason that theh Gulf Stream will probably stop is that melting ice packs will decrease the salinity of the water around Greenland, and that will stop the sinkink and rising of sea water which powers the gulf stream.  Some scientists have advocated using salt as a jump start to keep that stream going by literally dumping millions of tons of salt into the waters off Greenland.

No one really knows if this will work or not.  But it is simply good planning to consider radical ideas which will lessen the adverse impacts global warming will have on huge swathes of the world's population.

If the US would switch over to hybrid vehicles using currently available technologies, this would signgificantly reduce the emission of greenhouse gases, and that alone could have a measurable effect on reducing any rise in the mean global temperature.  But let's play the devil's advocate and say it would have absolutely no effect. What it would do is reduce the global demand on oil, perhaps reducing the US consumption of petroleum by almost 10%.  This is good in and of itself regardless of its effect on global temperatures.

I don't really care in mankind is the main reason for global warming or only a minor contributer.  We need to do what we can to deal with the situation, and sticking our heads in the sand is not the approriate course of action.

[yabaaaa]

At different times, the earth has been so hot that there were jungles in antarctica and so cold that the entire planet was covered by ice.  So the current trend towards global warming could be caused entirely by natural fluctuations without any input by man, although more logical person would agree that mankind has at least had some impact on the situation.

Mankind has caused numerous cases of microclimate changes through deforestation, pollution, cities, even dams.  Just look at the daily temperatures.  Temperatures in cities are usually several degrees warmer than temperatures in the surrounding countryside.  So if we can affect the microclimates, wouldn't it be logical to assume that all those microclimate changes could add up to have at least some effect on the overall climate of the world?

Regardless of the cause, it seems as if the head-in-the-sand "there is no global warming" crowd simply want to keep the staus quo of fossil fuel consumption and creation of pollution.  Even if global warming was entirely natural, does that mean we ignore it?  We build homes with heating to escape the cold of winter, right?  So we are not adverse to trying to control the climate in which we live.

Ironically, one of the big threats of global warming in the freezing of Europe.  Most of northern Europe is on the same latitudes as Canada.  If the engine which runs the Gulf Stream dies, London's winter  temperatures will more resemble Toronto's than Atlanta's. THe reason that theh Gulf Stream will probably stop is that melting ice packs will decrease the salinity of the water around Greenland, and that will stop the sinkink and rising of sea water which powers the gulf stream.  Some scientists have advocated using salt as a jump start to keep that stream going by literally dumping millions of tons of salt into the waters off Greenland.

No one really knows if this will work or not.  But it is simply good planning to consider radical ideas which will lessen the adverse impacts global warming will have on huge swathes of the world's population.

If the US would switch over to hybrid vehicles using currently available technologies, this would signgificantly reduce the emission of greenhouse gases, and that alone could have a measurable effect on reducing any rise in the mean global temperature.  But let's play the devil's advocate and say it would have absolutely no effect. What it would do is reduce the global demand on oil, perhaps reducing the US consumption of petroleum by almost 10%.  This is good in and of itself regardless of its effect on global temperatures.

I don't really care in mankind is the main reason for global warming or only a minor contributer.  We need to do what we can to deal with the situation, and sticking our heads in the sand is not the approriate course of action.

Which hybrid vehicle did you have in mind?

[bonobo]

 

Any of the Honda, Toyota, or Ford hybrids currently being used would have that effect.  I guess that would also include the Mercedes, although this report I read was written before the Mercedes was available.

I would assume the calculations were based on switching every available engine in use for the same output hybrid engine, not making calcualtions based on everyone switching to a Prius.

[MeetJohnDoe]

Yeah, we're all dead, but I guess I am just a romantic homosexual and like the idea that hundreds and thousands of years from now there still will be beautiful young men falling in love with other beautiful young men. We are a very good looking species if I do say so myself. Plus we have ART. I don't know about other planets, but even dolphins don't have any great writers, painters, and musicians, etc. It would be such a shame for all that to end before its time, by our OWN hands. Yes, I do realize that gila monsters are attractive to each other, that's their bizness.

Very witty and funny reply, as is your specialty, JT

It's just my Thai acquired Buddhism keeps getting the best of me and I've lost my feelings of attachment to most things, and that would include worrying about things like global warming and what the state of the earth will be in 50-100 years. Unfortunately (or fortunately, I don't know which), it will be what it will be. I am no longer one to think about that which I have no control. I believe we humans have no special or privileged position in the greater scheme of things; and that like 99% of the species that have ever existed on earth, we too will one day become extinct (1% odds of avoiding this fate are not too good...even with our more highly evolved brains).

If that should happen sooner due to GW or some other catastrophe (asteroid impact, nuclear war), the cosmologists tell us that the earth (barring that asteroid) has 3-4 billion more years of habitable use left. During that time, it may be possible for what we call "life" to evolve again from the organic molecules still present on earth.

As to those handsome men, don't worry, as I'm sure there are many other life forms among the billions of billions of galaxies in the universe. And among them, I'm sure there will always be some that enjoy same-sex relationships so your wish will always exist somewhere in the universe...if not on planet earth.

Edited May 8, 2009 by MeetJohnDoe

[Livinginexile]

No problem.

My apartment in Bkk is on the 16th floor.

I don't mind at all getting around by boat. It would be like the old days when klongs snaked everywhere in Bangkok.

Even better it could be like Venice.

Wow...bring it on

[teatree]

is that temperature increases FIRST ,,,,

So know you can tell us why the temperature increased ??

There is a huge ball of nuclear fusion in the sky that provides the Earth with virtually all it's heat, otherwise known as The Sun. Could fluctuations in The Sun cause fluctuations of temperatures on Earth? Or is that just a conspiracy theory?

Half of Europe was once covered in ice. Where there was once a lush rain forest now lies a desert. And where there was once a desert now lies a lush rain forest. These all happened without SUVs or any help from mankind.

The polar 'ice caps' on Mars retreated at the same time as the Arctic. Do they have a problem with fossil fuel burning on Mars too? Or is Mars, being in the same solar system as Earth, also being affected by the fluctuations of The Sun?

The main driver of climate on Earth is, was and always will be The Sun.

[Livinginexile]

is that temperature increases FIRST ,,,,

So know you can tell us why the temperature increased ??

There is a huge ball of nuclear fusion in the sky that provides the Earth with virtually all it's heat, otherwise known as The Sun. Could fluctuations in The Sun cause fluctuations of temperatures on Earth? Or is that just a conspiracy theory?

Half of Europe was once covered in ice. Where there was once a lush rain forest now lies a desert. And where there was once a desert now lies a lush rain forest. These all happened without SUVs or any help from mankind.

The polar 'ice caps' on Mars retreated at the same time as the Arctic. Do they have a problem with fossil fuel burning on Mars too? Or is Mars, being in the same solar system as Earth, also being affected by the fluctuations of The Sun?

The main driver of climate on Earth is, was and always will be The Sun.

Agreed.

If I burn my toast in the morning, I don't blame the bread!

[JR Texas]

is that temperature increases FIRST ,,,,

So know you can tell us why the temperature increased ??

There is a huge ball of nuclear fusion in the sky that provides the Earth with virtually all it's heat, otherwise known as The Sun. Could fluctuations in The Sun cause fluctuations of temperatures on Earth? Or is that just a conspiracy theory?

Half of Europe was once covered in ice. Where there was once a lush rain forest now lies a desert. And where there was once a desert now lies a lush rain forest. These all happened without SUVs or any help from mankind.

The polar 'ice caps' on Mars retreated at the same time as the Arctic. Do they have a problem with fossil fuel burning on Mars too? Or is Mars, being in the same solar system as Earth, also being affected by the fluctuations of The Sun?

The main driver of climate on Earth is, was and always will be The Sun.

The changes you are talking about took places over the span of multiples of millions of years.......not a hundred years.

What we are seeing now is a major change in temperature over the span of a human lifetime.......that is not "natural."

But, assuming that what we are seeing now is a natural, non-human induced rise in global temperatures, is it a wise move to magnify that natural cycle by pouring gases into the atmosphere that are known to cause global warming?

Of course not.........the last thing we humans should be doing, if you are correct, is magnifying the problem via our environmentally unsound economic activities.

[teatree]

is that temperature increases FIRST ,,,,

So know you can tell us why the temperature increased ??

There is a huge ball of nuclear fusion in the sky that provides the Earth with virtually all it's heat, otherwise known as The Sun. Could fluctuations in The Sun cause fluctuations of temperatures on Earth? Or is that just a conspiracy theory?

Half of Europe was once covered in ice. Where there was once a lush rain forest now lies a desert. And where there was once a desert now lies a lush rain forest. These all happened without SUVs or any help from mankind.

The polar 'ice caps' on Mars retreated at the same time as the Arctic. Do they have a problem with fossil fuel burning on Mars too? Or is Mars, being in the same solar system as Earth, also being affected by the fluctuations of The Sun?

The main driver of climate on Earth is, was and always will be The Sun.

The changes you are talking about took places over the span of multiples of millions of years.......not a hundred years.

What we are seeing now is a major change in temperature over the span of a human lifetime.......that is not "natural."

But, assuming that what we are seeing now is a natural, non-human induced rise in global temperatures, is it a wise move to magnify that natural cycle by pouring gases into the atmosphere that are known to cause global warming?

Of course not.........the last thing we humans should be doing, if you are correct, is magnifying the problem via our environmentally unsound economic activities.

But vilifying CO2 is not going to solve any environmental problem.

The belief that CO2 is a toxic waste is just leading to new taxes, a new commodity to be traded (carbon credits) the micro managing of everyone's life and the ludicrous practise of 'carbon capture'. And at the same time we continue to use fossil fuels while alternative energy sources progress at a snail's pace.

CO2 is not a pollutant it is a life giving gas that plants breathe! The gas expelled from a bus may contain carbon dioxide, but it is all the pollutants in there that are harmful, not the CO2. Let's get the real culprit now. Why not start rallying against something that actually is harmful, such as carbon MONoxide. If you want to see an end to the use of fossil fuels let's vilify all the toxins and particles belched into the air by the tonne every minute if the day but NOT one of the very foundations of life.

CO2 is a very minor greenhouse gas and mankind's contribution to that total is equally as small - we are having little if any effect on temperatures. The recent rise in temperatures is nothing out of the ordinary when you look back over history of our climate. Not at all.

And I hope the warming trend remerges after its current slumber, because the alternative to GW - global cooling - is far, far worse and would cause many more problems to humanity.

[coventry]

An American told us that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. So why should we believe what an American tells us now ?

That was probably the lamest anti-American jab I have read all week.

Do I win anything ? Maybe a weeks free water boarding at Guantanamo Bay ? Sorry you yanks don't do that. Can I pilot a drone and wipe out a wedding reception in Afghanistan ? The choice is endless.

[Ulysses G.]

Maybe a little oral-self-gratification. It is just what you deserve.

[Jingthing]

An American told us that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. So why should we believe what an American tells us now ?

That was probably the lamest anti-American jab I have read all week.

Do I win anything ? Maybe a weeks free water boarding at Guantanamo Bay ? Sorry you yanks don't do that. Can I pilot a drone and wipe out a wedding reception in Afghanistan ? The choice is endless.

And you WIN AGAIN! Are you gonna go for a THREEPEAT?

[coventry]

An American told us that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. So why should we believe what an American tells us now ?

That was probably the lamest anti-American jab I have read all week.

Do I win anything ? Maybe a weeks free water boarding at Guantanamo Bay ? Sorry you yanks don't do that. Can I pilot a drone and wipe out a wedding reception in Afghanistan ? The choice is endless.

And you WIN AGAIN! Are you gonna go for a THREEPEAT?

Nah I give up. Just like those Cuban regular soldiers that were supposed to be in Granada.

[BSJ]

When you lay down with dogs you got to expect flea's! I don't know if it's just me, or everyone else also feels the same. All in all, I don't have a lot of time for current or ex politician's. To many dam_n flea's!

[Texpat]

I think the wingnuts just don't feel like making new posters and placards.

They're quite comfortable with their "Do something about GW now!" posters, chants and slogans.

Edited May 8, 2009 by Texpat

[bonobo]

is that temperature increases FIRST ,,,,

So know you can tell us why the temperature increased ??

There is a huge ball of nuclear fusion in the sky that provides the Earth with virtually all it's heat, otherwise known as The Sun. Could fluctuations in The Sun cause fluctuations of temperatures on Earth? Or is that just a conspiracy theory?

Half of Europe was once covered in ice. Where there was once a lush rain forest now lies a desert. And where there was once a desert now lies a lush rain forest. These all happened without SUVs or any help from mankind.

The polar 'ice caps' on Mars retreated at the same time as the Arctic. Do they have a problem with fossil fuel burning on Mars too? Or is Mars, being in the same solar system as Earth, also being affected by the fluctuations of The Sun?

The main driver of climate on Earth is, was and always will be The Sun.

The changes you are talking about took places over the span of multiples of millions of years.......not a hundred years.

What we are seeing now is a major change in temperature over the span of a human lifetime.......that is not "natural."

But, assuming that what we are seeing now is a natural, non-human induced rise in global temperatures, is it a wise move to magnify that natural cycle by pouring gases into the atmosphere that are known to cause global warming?

Of course not.........the last thing we humans should be doing, if you are correct, is magnifying the problem via our environmentally unsound economic activities.

But vilifying CO2 is not going to solve any environmental problem.

The belief that CO2 is a toxic waste is just leading to new taxes, a new commodity to be traded (carbon credits) the micro managing of everyone's life and the ludicrous practise of 'carbon capture'. And at the same time we continue to use fossil fuels while alternative energy sources progress at a snail's pace.

CO2 is not a pollutant it is a life giving gas that plants breathe! The gas expelled from a bus may contain carbon dioxide, but it is all the pollutants in there that are harmful, not the CO2. Let's get the real culprit now. Why not start rallying against something that actually is harmful, such as carbon MONoxide. If you want to see an end to the use of fossil fuels let's vilify all the toxins and particles belched into the air by the tonne every minute if the day but NOT one of the very foundations of life.

CO2 is a very minor greenhouse gas and mankind's contribution to that total is equally as small - we are having little if any effect on temperatures. The recent rise in temperatures is nothing out of the ordinary when you look back over history of our climate. Not at all.

And I hope the warming trend remerges after its current slumber, because the alternative to GW - global cooling - is far, far worse and would cause many more problems to humanity.

Don't equate Global Warming with CO2 emissions alone or the whole carbon credit issue.  While they may be related, Global Warming encompasses far more than just CO2.

I personally don't think carbon credits are the answer.  But that doesn't mean I will then ignore the problem and stick my head in the sand.

Global Warming is happening, like it or not.  But because some think it has nothing to do with mankind or that carbon credits don't have any effect, they then refuse to examine the issue and try for a solution.  That, my friends, is pretty myopic.  If carbon credits is not an answer, let's come up with something which will work.

[JetsetBkk]

...The stuff in the video about the Nazis and eugenics was truly CREEPY. This is your best shot to counter Al Gore? AMAZING.

Can you give a time indication of when they talked about Nazis in this video?

[BygonKeaw]

global warming exposed in 10 minutes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYg7YE7NNvs

cheers

Clearly an American right wing political piece. Not science and Americans know that the US right wing has had opposition to science as a core part of their ideology. I think the video may be from this right wing group: http://cei.org/

Such groups are notoriously phobic about the US cooperating in any way with the international community of nations. They have nightmares about one world government, they are obsessed.

This isn't a matter of a taxation discussion, its about the future of our species on this planet. The stuff in the video about the Nazis and eugenics was truly CREEPY. This is your best shot to counter Al Gore? AMAZING.

It wasnt really a shot but take a look at this link because 30,000 scientists wanna take a shot at him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfHW7KR33IQ...feature=related

jingthing i suggest your research who really controls your country, i presume your american?

[Jingthing]

...The stuff in the video about the Nazis and eugenics was truly CREEPY. This is your best shot to counter Al Gore? AMAZING.

Can you give a time indication of when they talked about Nazis in this video?

6:35