Starting A Dog Kennel Business

[Svenn]

Hi all,

My lady just got offered about 15 female chihuahuas from her cousin at a (very) discount price in the hopes she'd start a branch kennel. Neither her or her cousin are advanced breeders with degrees by any means (we're talking Isaan upcountry vendors here), but she has raised a few pups here and there. I just wanted to check here to make sure it was a good idea. I know there's lots of professional dog people out there that would be petrified that someone would undertake a kennel idea so lightly, but I'm looking for reasonable input about

1. will the dogs be happy and healthy in a smallish shop with big yard?

2. can an amature breeder identify most major problems with the dogs, or could the whole kennel get sick & die out the blue?

3. Is the amount of labor required for each dog make a kennel this small economical? (15 females is 25 puppies a year at best right?)

4. She loves dogs and already has several, but do kennels exhaust even the most ardent dog lovers?

Thanks

[Cuban]

I mean no disrespect to anyone, and offer these comments as just thoughts.

Many Thai business ideas will see the overview of N number of puppies being sold at X Baht each translating to profit = N x X. Is there a costing of good quaility food for two - three months for the pups and nursing mother (father), plus injections and tick control and other cleaning costs. If the first phase of business is considered to be word of mouth sales - what will you do for the litters produced later on?

Is there a demand locally ?

Are the dogs producing good colorings - beware some combinations are 'better' than others - consder not every color is used to sell cars - the same is true with dogs.

Link.

Personally I feel dealing in life should be done for the love of the animal - not the profit margin - however without knowing the costs and profits the venture will consume money and may become a burden - if that happens the looser will be the puppies not getting a loving home, better not to have been born ?

FWIW

[Nienke]

1. will the dogs be happy and healthy in a smallish shop with big yard?

My first thought is: will YOU be happy with 15 yapping chihuahua's the whole day? Don't misunerstand me, I like Chihuahua's. But I also know they are quite prone to lots of barking.

Second thought: they can be quite happy and healthy if they get the proper care and undestanding form the owners. For this the owners need to provide quality dogfood, veterinary care, regelar general health care, such as ear cleaning, eye cleaning, bathing and grooming, anil clipping, teeth checking and/or cleaning etc.

You're talking 15 dogs. Make a calculation BEFORE you get the dogs.

2. can an amature breeder identify most major problems with the dogs, or could the whole kennel get sick & die out the blue?

Only if the amature breeder educates him/herself about the major diseases and symptom recognizing BEFORE getting the dogs

3. Is the amount of labor required for each dog make a kennel this small economical? (15 females is 25 puppies a year at best right?)

If you really give the proper care they need, and not like puppymill- or backyard breeders, a very big NO. And BTW, a breeder with 15 females I do not exactly fnd a small breeder.

4. She loves dogs and already has several, but do kennels exhaust even the most ardent dog lovers?

If it's not your passion, yes, that happens often.

Edited May 4, 2009 by Nienke

[elfe]

to me this sounds like horror. let's say 15 litters per year. chihuahuas don't give birth to more than 2 puppies usually. the birthing itself is often difficult, you have to assist, sometimes rear the pups (or try to) by yourself. many complications could arise... you must be very well in the know about caring for the dogs, about diseases, vaccinations etc. if you don't want to sit most of the time at the vets (expensive)

how will you keep them, in cages is not in favour for the dogs, lots of cleaning too. they need exercise, you need to seperate them at least when pregnant or with their babies. do you have the facilities for that?

the cost is high, for quality food, puppy food, medicine, vet etc even they are tiny.

how you want to sell your puppies, you need to have a name and a website. better to wait for orders first then later sitting on unsellable pups. i hope you don't want to send them all over thailand to other petshops like many 'breeders' do.

it is hard work but surely joy as well (for the dog lover) and 24/7 'job'!

but if you do it only for business and profit reasons, forget it. for the sake of the animals, please.

[bina]

oh dear, i didnt want to really reply, but... breeding dogs properly u dont make money, u often loose much more then u put in; to make money, u have to keep the dogs in bad conditions. deal with one breeding bitch adn sitting with her during her birth, etc is exhausting enough, but 15?!!...

u will need hired help

they cant be all kept in the house without crates

a way to wash and clean floors, whelping areas

keeping a good working stud

staggering the breeding every other year

separating the in heat bitches from the ones u want to breed to the stud

keeping a vet on a monthly fee for providing 24 hour service (do they have that in thailand? i did that for my goats-- it was worth every penny for when we had emergencies that i couldnt deal with at 3 am.)

proper socializing, proper floors for the pups

stimulation for the pups (my female lhasa unfortunately was kept in a small room with her brother - as he actually was a goat breeder and also bred working asianshepherds who couldnt be kept with the few smaller dogs he had up at the house. she was played with by owner's kids but was not exposed to many noises textures and things so took her a while developmentally)

what do u do with pups that arent sold, or are returnees (people dont want the pup, or pup is ill or limps or whatever), not to mention the genetics of chihuahuas-- soft skull closure or something. plus, in reality, most backyard breeders dont get the prices of a well know kennel, one that has ribbons, awards, and a name for themselves in the field....

and are u willing to sell your babies to every lek, dam, and jai that wants a toy dog for status?

that is why i only ever have two (maybe three if i have a litter from lillee and foofoo), but keeping a dog properly is an expensive undertaking, just like children-- which is why i dont have new furniture in my house, and an old computer. i spend lots of money on food, vet stuff (dog got attacked, vet bills add up, previous dogs had cancers and heart problems, vet bills hit the ceiling), grooming, whatever.

just think about parvo...........

start with one stud, a few females, see how it goes, read a lot on the net, go to dog shows (there's one in two days i think in bangkok, look at the pinned topic)

ask ponti, nienke, khun or, et al as they breed for show and sale or run training kennels,go travel, take a look, and remember, dogs can be a business but they are still living beings.

they arent cans of beans that u can leave for a few days if u go on vacation (what vacations?! with 15 brood bitches ready to pop!!)or if u both come down with swine flu (just joking but u know what i mean-- but it happened to a canaani dog breeder here, she is world reknown judge for certain breeds, she developed some virulent form of pneomonia a few years ago and ended up having to sell off and reduce her breeding and show stock down to a few favorites as she physically couldnt take care of them all properly.

thats my say in the matter also....

good luck

bina

israel

[katabeachbum]

I didnt want to reply either Bina, but I just think you said it all. Thank You

To sosialize the puppies you need to separate them from the rest at least 2 hours a day, beeing only with people 2 hours each.........

When I was breeding 20 years ago we sold at 40-60.000 baht each, without having any profit. Great fun though.

[Svenn]

I didnt want to reply either Bina, but I just think you said it all. Thank You

To sosialize the puppies you need to separate them from the rest at least 2 hours a day, beeing only with people 2 hours each.........

When I was breeding 20 years ago we sold at 40-60.000 baht each, without having any profit. Great fun though.

60,000 baht 20 years ago? Perhaps you guys are in a completely different field then I was envisioning- chihuahuas go for 6-9,000 at Chatuchak... but I suppose they don't meet higher-quality dog standards.

[loganberry]

With all due respect, if you are already admitting a lack of knowledge or experience breeding dogs... then don't do it. There are already enough seemingly well-intentioned people in this country that started off just like you and eventually end up putting the almighty buck or baht before doing good for the lives of these animals. Go take a look at a Thai puppy mill and you will know what I am talking about.

You don't need my blessing in any way before doing whatever it is you are going to do, but if you really want to do more good than bad... everyone in your "breeding business" should be a trained and educated breeder. Secondly, and most importantly, never intend to make any profit. The concept of profit goes against the quality of health in the dogs. Just look at the healthcare system in the USA... this is an example of how profit destroys well-intended people.

[katabeachbum]

With all due respect, if you are already admitting a lack of knowledge or experience breeding dogs... then don't do it. There are already enough seemingly well-intentioned people in this country that started off just like you and eventually end up putting the almighty buck or baht before doing good for the lives of these animals. Go take a look at a Thai puppy mill and you will know what I am talking about.

You don't need my blessing in any way before doing whatever it is you are going to do, but if you really want to do more good than bad... everyone in your "breeding business" should be a trained and educated breeder. Secondly, and most importantly, never intend to make any profit. The concept of profit goes against the quality of health in the dogs. Just look at the healthcare system in the USA... this is an example of how profit destroys well-intended people.

Breeding dogs should be about improving the standard of the dogs you breed. For large working dogs, bad hips is a problem. By selecting x-rayed healthy dogs having healthy brothers and sisters and healthy parents, it is possible to reduce bad hips. We did that with Briard in Europe.

Small dogs can have other problems, like Cavalier King Charles Spaniels heartdiseases. Good breeders can reduce this problem by selecting healthy individuals with healthy family.

Healthy dogs dont come cheap, and its so easy to focus only on dogshowchamps or just pick the neighbors dog.

[KhunOr]

I am a breeder in Chiang Mai (English Bull Terriers).

I can give you 50 good reasons why you shouldn't start a kennel, but for the sake of my blood pressure I'll refrain.

Instead let me offer the only good reasons why you should breed, then you can decide if it is right for you:

You want to breed because you absolutely love chihuahuas and you have a passion to improve the stock of this breed in Thailand.

That's really all there is to it, but just to expand a little, that means that you will breed only the best quality dogs that meet all chihuahua pedigree standard requirements and that includes health and temperament requirements. It should go without saying that you will provide perfect care to the breeding stock and puppies, including medical care, the best food, adequate accommodation and exercise facilities. You'll also be prepared to sell directly to customers (never through pet shops or markets) who meet the required standards themselves (have the right facilities and attitude) and you will provide lifelong support to all those customers.

Oh, I suppose I should add that you will almost certainly not make any profit from this venture, but as that is not your motive it won't worry you.

I wonder why the cousin wants to part with 15 dogs? Just curious.

[katabeachbum]

I am a breeder in Chiang Mai (English Bull Terriers).

I can give you 50 good reasons why you shouldn't start a kennel, but for the sake of my blood pressure I'll refrain.

Instead let me offer the only good reasons why you should breed, then you can decide if it is right for you:

You want to breed because you absolutely love chihuahuas and you have a passion to improve the stock of this breed in Thailand.

That's really all there is to it, but just to expand a little, that means that you will breed only the best quality dogs that meet all chihuahua pedigree standard requirements and that includes health and temperament requirements. It should go without saying that you will provide perfect care to the breeding stock and puppies, including medical care, the best food, adequate accommodation and exercise facilities. You'll also be prepared to sell directly to customers (never through pet shops or markets) who meet the required standards themselves (have the right facilities and attitude) and you will provide lifelong support to all those customers.

Oh, I suppose I should add that you will almost certainly not make any profit from this venture, but as that is not your motive it won't worry you.

I wonder why the cousin wants to part with 15 dogs? Just curious.

Excellent post KhunOr

Do you know any breeder of Mastiff in Thailand?

[Nienke]

Save your breath and blood pressure, Khun Or.

Besides this question he also has asked about bringing in a fox: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Exotic-Anima...78#entry2769578 and about security dogs: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Security-Dog...78#entry2716778

To me it seems he doesn't really know what he wants and what he is talking about. We ARE talking living beings here!