Prem International School

[Bill97]

I believe having an IB would allow your child to skip the first year of a 4-year collage course as the credits are transferrable. So you save a year of collage. You might want to take that into consideration when you calculate the total cost of education.

Advanced placement is possible in a few courses if a student gets high scores in advanced level classes as it is with many high schools but a whole year? Can you provide a reference that confirms your belief?

Edited May 6, 2009 by Bill97

[brennanstimpy]

I believe having an IB would allow your child to skip the first year of a 4-year collage course as the credits are transferrable. So you save a year of collage. You might want to take that into consideration when you calculate the total cost of education.

Advanced placement is possible in a few courses if a student gets high scores in advanced level classes as it is with many high schools but a whole year? Can you provide a reference that confirms your belief?

My wife taught AP English in the states and was accredited by a state school to do so, so, I know AP courses are counted as college credits as well.

[BlackArtemis]

Teachnically a student could get rid of up to a semester's worth of classes (if they did 2 AP classes Jr and Sr year (and passed the AP tests). However, a college would just make them make do an equivalent amount of free credits. So all in All Ap classes just make you not have to take that class again.

[Mapguy]

There is no guarantee of college credit for an advanced placement (AP) course. Many colleges do provide credit; some don't and some restrict credit to certain courses only. You really have to check with individual schools. In addition, a student's score on an AP examination is a key determinant on whether or not they get credit. At the same time, there can definitely be an advantage to taking AP courses. The College Board provides a lot of information on this: http://www.collegeboard.com/student/testing/ap/about.html

Oh yes, since this thread was originally about Prem and the International Baccalaureate (IB) Program, there is a tremendous amount of information available on that to: http://www.ibo.org/ .

A key difference between the two programs is that AP courses are only offered to older students, normally in the last four years of an American school curriculum. IB has a program involving "best practices" of education that extends down to toddlers.

Edited May 7, 2009 by Mapguy

[getgoin]

CMIS. The college entry percentage is and always has been 100%, no other school here can claim that.

Prem has had good college entry results and excellent last year which I doubt CMIS came close to equalling.

Prem had more than 100% college entry? Congratulations, if Prem can get more people into college than it graduates then maybe someone should be waking Einstein.

One thing about Chiang Mai is that it does have its share of rocket scientists.

One thing that everyone is forgetting to tell you about is the school entry fee. All the international schools get a up front fee for entry. This helps to insure that kids don't switch from school to school. When you come, do the research and then you will be happy about your decision.

Also, CMIS and Grace are very difficult to get into if your children are not going in as kindergarten or first graders. They might not even be an option for you. Better to check with their addmissions. Lanna, Prem, NP and APIS (Not sure about the German school.) all have available enrollment.

All the schools are good. Lanna and Nakhorn Payap are getting better. Prem and APIS suffer from the stigma of being expensive and having to accept any and all students with the ability to pay the higher fees. The higher fees translate into better facilities and a good curiculum but at the expense of the student body.

Take a good look at Nakhorn Payap.

[Krupnik]

Take a good look at Nakhorn Payap.

I agree, here is their website: www.nis.ac.th

[Bill97]

CMIS. The college entry percentage is and always has been 100%, no other school here can claim that.

Prem has had good college entry results and excellent last year which I doubt CMIS came close to equalling.

Prem had more than 100% college entry? Congratulations, if Prem can get more people into college than it graduates then maybe someone should be waking Einstein.

My apologies to Einstein and for having to get into rocket science.

College entry results are not just about getting into college or not. Almost anybody can get into some college somewhere so the fact that CMIS got 100% into college does not mean too much. It is also about the academic quality of the colleges they get into. No?????

Edited May 7, 2009 by Bill97

[Priceless]

CMIS. The college entry percentage is and always has been 100%, no other school here can claim that.

Prem has had good college entry results and excellent last year which I doubt CMIS came close to equalling.

Prem had more than 100% college entry? Congratulations, if Prem can get more people into college than it graduates then maybe someone should be waking Einstein.

My apologies to Einstein and for having to get into rocket science.

College entry results are not just about getting into college or not. Almost anybody can get into some college somewhere so the fact that CMIS got 100% into college does not mean too much. It is also about the academic quality of the colleges they get into. No?????

I fully agree. Even if you restrict yourself to American colleges (which are probably the only ones where AP would account for anything) there is a difference between, say, Harvard and Kellogg Community College in Battle Creek, Michigan.

/ Priceless

[Bill97]

As for CMIS being a Christian school and that being negative is totally ignorant. The enrollment is over 80% buddhist. The school is under the moniker of Church of Christ Thailand, yes, but I object to the comments about favoritism.

Did they change their admission policy that gave preference to children of Christians/Missionaries/employees of Christian organizations? If so, when was the change made?

[KidneyWiper]

Long time lurker makes first post. Please be gentle Chiang Mai regulars.

My wife and I are in the planning stages of a permanent move to Chiang Mai. With two kids approaching school age, choice of school is obviously a major factor for us. We have researched all of the international schools online, but would very much welcome some local knowledge from those already there.

It seems that Prem is the best school in CM? Their fees are roughly double those of the other schools. Is this price differential explained by Prem providing a much higher standard of education? Putting our kids in Prem would stretch our budget considerably, but it is do-able. Although we want to give our kids the best we can, we also want to be sure that the value for money equation checks out also.

As this is a long-term move, we want to get off on the right foot, and ideally place the kids where they can stay for the whole of their schooling. Any advice or opinions would be gratefully received.

Hi, my son has attended Prem for the past two years. He previously attended international schools in Indonesia and Qatar. In my opinion Prem compares favourably, with regard to costs and education standards, with both of the aforementioned locations.

[getgoin]

CMIS. The college entry percentage is and always has been 100%, no other school here can claim that.

Prem has had good college entry results and excellent last year which I doubt CMIS came close to equalling.

Prem had more than 100% college entry? Congratulations, if Prem can get more people into college than it graduates then maybe someone should be waking Einstein.

My apologies to Einstein and for having to get into rocket science.

College entry results are not just about getting into college or not. Almost anybody can get into some college somewhere so the fact that CMIS got 100% into college does not mean too much. It is also about the academic quality of the colleges they get into. No?????

The reference to the rocket scientist was directed to your comment about doubting if CMIS students could compare . If you have statistics to share about where the CMIS students and the PREM students went to university then by all means share. Don't fabricate academic standing or achievement, show us the difference. I think Prem is a good school but it accepts students with not so good accademics because they can afford it. Prem needs the cash and they need the students. CMIS is fully booked as I pointed out to the OP, CMIS is probably not an option for him because they do not have the space.

[Bill97]

Dear Einstein,

We can all read so we know what your rocket science comment referred to and most of us even understand fabrication.

Ten students in last year's graduating class at Prem were accepted into universities ranking in the top 50 universities in the world. That class also received scholarships in excess of US$ 500,000. And yes, I still doubt that CMIS can match that but I will leave it up to you or "brennanstimpy" to post the CMIS data since he is the one who touted the CMIS results and his wife and mommy teach there so they should be able to easily provide comparable data.

Have a nice day and remember that it is possible to have more than 100%.

[Ulysses G.]

Bill97, why do you find it necessary to be so nasty in almost every single post? Thailand is the closest thing to paradise on earth that most of us will ever know. Chill out dude.

[PeaceBlondie]

Anecdotes - that is all that 95% of us farang can relate, especially about education in Thailand. I taught here for years. Spent countless hours with 20 students from five local int'l schools. Had dinner with a CMIS teacher, others with a Prem instructor. Thousands of hours on 'ajarn' type websites.

And I can hardly spell anecdotes.

[Bill97]

Bill97, why do you find it necessary to be so nasty in almost every single post? Thailand is the closest thing to paradise on earth that most of us will ever know. Chill out dude.

OK, just for example read this thread. I have made 5 or 6 posts and you find "almost every single one" to be nasty? Sorry UG but I just have no idea how to respond to you if that is your reading comprehension.

[Ulysses G.]

You are correct. I only noticed the nasty ones because they stuck out, as I can not see the point to some of them, but when I went back and looked more carefully, there are some non-nasty posts as well. Pardon.

Edited May 8, 2009 by Ulysses G.

[jackr]

Bill97, why do you find it necessary to be so nasty in almost every single post? Thailand is the closest thing to paradise on earth that most of us will ever know. Chill out dude.

Snide is the operative word me thinks

[Ulysses G.]

You are correct too jackr. Sorry, maybe the hot weather is affecting me more than I thought.

[JimShortz]

One thing worth pointing out is that Prem is the only school around Chiang Mai where the students get an International Baccalaureate. This is a great help if you aspire to further studies at university abroad.

/ Priceless

You are quite right that Prem offers the International Baccalaureate, and this is indeed a very widely recognised and highly valued qualification. I also think, for many students, it can be a very stimulating and challenging course.

As a teacher at Lanna I just wanted to balance this a little bit by saying the British A level courses that we offer are also widely recognised throughout the world, and can also be challenging and stimulating courses. Lanna has massively expanded their programme this year to offer a very wide range of A level options.

IB and A levels are both great courses for the RIGHT students. Perhaps a key difference is that with A levels students study only three main subjects during their last two years of schooling (specialising and studying these subjects in depth), whereas the IB is much wider in scope with students doing lots of different things: 3 minor and 3 major subjects, and these must include a second language, the arts, sciences, maths, and a community element.

I think any parents looking at the different systems in Chiang Mai should find out about A levels, APs and the IB through a bit of googling to see what might be most suitable for their own child; we're all different after all...

Here's an interesting balanced discussion from the Head of a well respected British school that offers both IB and A levels:

A levels or IB?Hugh Carson, retiring Headmaster of Malvern College, the only HMC school that has, for over a decade, offered a sixth form choice between A levels and the IB Diploma, considers the choice.

A levels and the International Baccalaureate (IB) diploma are both perfectly valid routes to university. Some individuals appear to benefit more from the broader demands of the diploma course while others, largely thanks to the way in which universities express their entrance offers, can take advantage of the narrowness A level courses permit.

We have found at Malvern that the diploma course’s rigour and breadth requires, on average, approximately 15% more teaching and study time than A level. As long as pupils are prepared to do the work, those who achieve a flat grade profile in their GCSEs, whether they be mostly A*, A or B grades, will perform better on the IB diploma course – in relation to those grades – than at A level. On the other hand those whose profile is more bumpy at GCSE might – if success is, wrongly in my view, to be measured solely in terms of University entrance – benefit from studying fewer subjects in the sixth form and take A levels.

A level pupils will almost all acquire a less coherent breadth than that of their IB contemporaries. However, they will be in a position to devote more time to those subjects that they particularly enjoy. Most educationalists would argue that weaknesses should be addressed but A levels, by allowing pupils to play to their strengths, cater for those with areas of weakness. We offer candidates this option otherwise some would feel disadvantaged in relation to pupils at other schools.

Will A level candidates be as well-prepared for life after university, and the demands of a shrinking world, as IB pupils?

The answer depends on the individual’s aspirations. The coherent breadth of the IB is more demanding but in my view it repays individuals by equipping them better for the longer-term challenges of life, especially in their careers.

IB Diploma candidates have to study three subjects at a Higher Level and a further three at Standard Level (Higher is intellectually equivalent to the A2 level while Standard levels equate to two thirds of an A2 course). Those six subjects have to include:

• the candidate’s own language;
  
• another modern language;
  
• mathematics;
  
• a science;
  
• one of the humanities – pupils tend to choose between geography, history, economics and politics; and
  
• one more subject chosen from the whole range of normal sixth form courses.
  

The diploma demands a wider spread than A levels but pupils who have areas of weakness can, through carefully choosing their Standard Level courses, address their challenges in a way that encourages them. (For example weaker linguists can choose an ab initio course as their second modern language.)

In addition to their six subjects IB candidates must complete the core of the diploma. The core requires them to:

• write a 4000 word report on a piece of personal research into a subject of their own choosing;
  
• follow a theory of knowledge course – not as alarming as it might sound – which teaches them to think and analyse across the traditional subject boundaries; and
  
• spend at least half a day a week on some creative, aesthetic or community service activity.
  

Through its breadth and ethos the IB also encourages familiarity with different cultures and an awareness of the world outside academic institutions.

Having gained entry to the university course of their choice pupils who have followed the less prescriptive A/S, A2 and A level extension paper option sometimes find that their narrower sixth form education counts against them: both during their undergraduate course and in years to come.

It is little wonder, therefore, that universities throughout the world welcome IB students and in the UK, in particular.

Do you have to be especially bright to study the IB?

Those who misguidedly think the IB diploma should only be pursued by clever pupils should remember that the IB offers the same potential seven points in the Standard Level subjects as it does in the more demanding Higher Level. This, of course, encourages pupils in their Standard Level courses – very often subjects they have chosen to study at that level because they feel less strong in them.

Those who produce league tables have struggled to find equivalences between IB and A level levels of attainment. The IB course is out of 45 points and, based on our years of experience, we would say that a straight B grade A Level candidate would expect to achieve about 33 IB points in the diploma. The threshold for Oxbridge entry (straight A grades) equates to about 39 points in the diploma. A further advantage of the diploma course is that it differentiates between the very good (39 points) and the truly outstanding (anyone over 40). To score 45 points is truly exceptional: only one in a thousand candidates achieves this – whereas straight A grades at A level, achieved by 9.5% of A level students, is relatively commonplace.

Hugh Carson, Headmaster, Malvern College,

[earlofwindermere]

I interpret most of this discussion to mean:

Advanced Placement: recognized in the US and in a few places outside

A Levels: recognized in the UK and a few places outside

IB: recognized around the world.

Each system is good depending on where you are from. But, everyone seems to agree that the IB system is the most recognized worldwide.

[Mapguy]

Thank you, "JimShortZ," for the post above including the very thoughtful comparison by Hugh Carson of the A Level versus IB approaches.

To consider AP as well, there really is no AP path per se. Some students just pile them on; some take one or two; some shy away from them because of their more rigorous nature. Success in AP courses tells a university admissions officer that the student is willing to take on an additional challenge and, not always familiar with the quality of the applicant's school and the value of the grade transcript, the officer does understand AP test scores.

One part of Carson's contribution sticks out in my mind:

Will A level candidates be as well-prepared for life after university, and the demands of a shrinking world, as IB pupils?

The answer depends on the individual’s aspirations. The coherent breadth of the IB is more demanding but in my view it repays individuals by equipping them better for the longer-term challenges of life, especially in their careers.

Should teenagers be narrowly focused academically with "A" levels at so early an age? For one thing, what happens if their interests change! Happens all the time. Then and later in life, students will most likely, ceteris paribus, be better prepared through the IB route, as Carson points out.

One should add that IB goals are not exclusive to that program. There are many good schools which are not IB schools which prepare their students just as well through a similar curriculum. Here, again, however, a university admissions officer has a known measure (the IB diploma and scores) by which to judge performance. The IB diploma does have truly global significance.

As mentioned in a previous post, don't forget that IB goals have been extended down to the earliest grade. This is important, as well, since AP and "A" level courses are only provided for upper school students.

Finally, Chiang Mai fortunately provides choice. Considering the size of the town, we are very fortunate in that.

[Thakkar]

Yesterday at the MeeChok Rimping I found a copy of the Prem Quarterly detailing various aspects of the school. More copies available at the counter for those interested.

[brennanstimpy]

I interpret most of this discussion to mean:

Advanced Placement: recognized in the US and in a few places outside

A Levels: recognized in the UK and a few places outside

IB: recognized around the world.

Each system is good depending on where you are from. But, everyone seems to agree that the IB system is the most recognized worldwide.

I am just an American so the colleges I am familiar with are in the US. Last I heard though American education is sought after more so than any other country in the world.

[Mapguy]

Yesterday at the MeeChok Rimping I found a copy of the Prem Quarterly detailing various aspects of the school. More copies available at the counter for those interested.

Nothing wrong with the information in that magazine. It is a brief marketing piece for the school. But, if you are seriously curious, it is simple enough to google the school or any international school in Chiang Mai.

Web sites do not a school make, but note the differences.

[Abrak]

The school has a very interesting history. It was the originally the brain child of M.L.Tri Devakul (Boathouse, Le Meridien, Phuket yacht Club etc). Hence the involvement of Prem who he is very close to due to similar proclivities and a joy of partying in their younger days. He was the architect for the school (and is one of Thailand's most respected architects). He originally called the project 'three generations' as he had some idea that the pupils, parents and grandparents would all live on the campus.

It opened in about 1995 but never caught on and essentially shut down during the 1997 crisis. He then sold it out and since it reopened it has been successful - he is still involved and spends a lot of time there despite having many other businesses. He basically sold a number of businesses to see it through to completion and to finance Tridhos Marina in bkk.

[Bill97]

It was the originally the brain child of M.L.Tri Devakul (Boathouse, Le Meridien, Phuket yacht

He then sold it

Thanks for the interesting information. Do you happen to know who he sold it to or who currently owns it?

[Thakkar]

Yesterday at the MeeChok Rimping I found a copy of the Prem Quarterly detailing various aspects of the school. More copies available at the counter for those interested.

Nothing wrong with the information in that magazine. It is a brief marketing piece for the school. But, if you are seriously curious, it is simple enough to google the school or any international school in Chiang Mai.

Web sites do not a school make, but note the differences.

Yes, the magazine is basically a marketing sheet. The sense I got after reading it was this: The school is on a relentless mission to enhance it's reputation and, as with building a particular type of campus, churning out certain types of students is a means to that end. Whether that's good, bad or immaterial as far as the kind of education one's child gets at the school is something I'm not sure about.

I don't know enough about Prem to pass judgement one way or the other. If I had just one child, I may well have considered Prem. But when you have more, the costs add up and it's frankly beyond my means so I never seriously researched the school beyond the fees. I'm very happy with the school my kids currently attend and am glad that there is a wide variety of international and bi-lingual schools to choose from in CM. Each has its strengths and weaknesses and parents need to ask themselves what they really want for their kids before making the objective assessments on the choice of school. It matters what schools our kids attend. It matters equally the kind of family life they experience, and to a lesser extent, the books they read, the friends they have and the media they watch.

There's no "best" school and the answer to 'which school?' is: it depends.

[Mapguy]

"The Prem," as the overall development is called, is an unusual concept. The real estate aspect of it, Premburi, is not close to being finished. The school is now very well-established. The following is interesting:

http://premburi.premcenter.org/concept.html

Edited May 21, 2009 by Mapguy

[whiterussian]

I am just an American so the colleges I am familiar with are in the US. Last I heard though American education is sought after more so than any other country in the world.

Must bite tongue.

From what i can see, the Thai's learn WAY more advanced science than UK, and probably US schools. Most of the farang teachers I have met make fun of the Thai curriculum - but it is every bit as advanced as UK A-Levels (and that was back when A-Levels weren't dumbed down), trouble is they have little international recognition for such talent, not having a western country to reverse-colonise. Unless they can find a green card holding gent to chase The American Dream...

Edited February 20, 2010 by whiterussian

[lannarebirth]

"The Prem," as the overall development is called, is an unusual concept. The real estate aspect of it, Premburi, is not close to being finished. The school is now very well-established. The following is interesting:

http://premburi.premcenter.org/concept.html

It's a very scenic and peaceful area out near The Prem school but I have to say it; those homes they built as part of "Premburi" are hideous.