Prem International School

[Bill97]

"The Prem," as the overall development is called, is an unusual concept. The real estate aspect of it, Premburi, is not close to being finished. The school is now very well-established. The following is interesting:

http://premburi.premcenter.org/concept.html

Mapguy,

What do you mean by "very well established"? Please tell us what supporting information you have for that opinion. Thank you.

[doppa]

prem. has potentially to be not only the best school in thailand, but also of se asia, and if they achieve 80% of the goals they have set themselves, the school will be a truly recognised world education center.....but whether they achieve these set goals remains to be seen, like all schools it has its 'politics' prems no different, in addition to that the academies they have, seem in my opinion rather alienated from the rest of school,and if they were able to start school from scratch, im not really sure if any of the academies would exsist.

there going through a huge push academically, so any child who's attending over the next few years will feel the benefit of this ongoing world sought recognition.

mom tree ,the owner plays his part cash wise, and is the vision behind the school, but on the other hand he is the one who says yes or no to any spending, as is his right, but personally i think at times it can work against the school, when ultimate power is in the hands of one person

like so many schools, youv'e got great and poor teachers, each teacher has to to do a minimum of 2 years, after that its up to them and school if they remain, prem is no different.

considering prems fees are double any other school in chiangmai, and possibly thailand, parents expectations levels are huge, quite rightly, with prem constantly under scrutinisation it an added pressure for them to perform.

its all very well producing well rounded kids, which they will, but the bottom line as always is results, and without results, and by that i mean successful qualifications, prems reputation will diminish, theres no other way in todays society.

so the challenge for prem is quite clear, time as they say will tell.

nb. my son is into his 3 term at school , k2.

[ferd54]

After that fellow who claimed involvement with the Jon Benet Ramsey case -- and was was working as a "teacher" in Thailand -- the Ministry of Education came down hard on teaching credentials, so I believe all international schools are required to now hire only teachers with true teaching certification (not just TOEFL and the like). I say all that because the teachers at all of Chiang Mai's international schools are now probably good.

The decision then comes down to facilities and administration. If a school's admission standards are "flexible" according to who can pay the most, then a load of wealthy Thais in the student body might not be for the best for several reasons: If their English is poor then it will slow other students down because the language of instruction is English; as people have no doubt noticed spoiled rich Thai kids are not the most disciplined and willing to study or accept direction. At one time one of the schools that had a lot of wealthy Thai guys from BKK as students ironically seemed the most like a ghetto school with aggressive behavior, tattoos and general nastiness.

Facilities like decent classrooms, full supplies of textbooks and other teaching materials, as well as band, art and athletic equipment are also important.

I would closely check the admissions policy, PTO involvement and overall composition of the student body.

[Throatwobbler]

I have been very impressed by Varee and all the students I have met from there. The two children aged 10 and 12 next door speak ecellent English, seem well educated and are 100% Thai and learnt all their English at Varee.

It is also pretty much in Chiang Mai with excellent travel access.

Would Varee not be worth considering?

Iain

Varee isn't an International School. It is a private Thai school with a bilingual programme and an 'official' English Programme (EP). Ajarn Varee is a very impressive woman who has built this school from scratch in just 5 years. It's EP is very successful but only goes up to pratom 5 I think. The matayom (secondary or grades 7-12) is less successful and often absorbs Prince Royal and Montfort students who don't pass their matayom 4 exam.

This April Varee is opening an international section at the school and will be running the IGCSE. They are also hiring full accredited teachers to work in it. What it's going to be like I don't know.

As for Prem I've had a couple of dealings with them and have found them to be as disorganized as any of the other schools here but at double the price.

[doppa]

After that fellow who claimed involvement with the Jon Benet Ramsey case -- and was was working as a "teacher" in Thailand -- the Ministry of Education came down hard on teaching credentials, so I believe all international schools are required to now hire only teachers with true teaching certification (not just TOEFL and the like). I say all that because the teachers at all of Chiang Mai's international schools are now probably good.

The decision then comes down to facilities and administration. If a school's admission standards are "flexible" according to who can pay the most, then a load of wealthy Thais in the student body might not be for the best for several reasons: If their English is poor then it will slow other students down because the language of instruction is English; as people have no doubt noticed spoiled rich Thai kids are not the most disciplined and willing to study or accept direction. At one time one of the schools that had a lot of wealthy Thai guys from BKK as students ironically seemed the most like a ghetto school with aggressive behavior, tattoos and general nastiness.

Facilities like decent classrooms, full supplies of textbooks and other teaching materials, as well as band, art and athletic equipment are also important.

I would closely check the admissions policy, PTO involvement and overall composition of the student body.

teaching certificates doesn't necessarily = a good teacher, it only indicates they have an official document.

[doppa]

I have been very impressed by Varee and all the students I have met from there. The two children aged 10 and 12 next door speak ecellent English, seem well educated and are 100% Thai and learnt all their English at Varee.

It is also pretty much in Chiang Mai with excellent travel access.

Would Varee not be worth considering?

Iain

Varee isn't an International School. It is a private Thai school with a bilingual programme and an 'official' English Programme (EP). Ajarn Varee is a very impressive woman who has built this school from scratch in just 5 years. It's EP is very successful but only goes up to pratom 5 I think. The matayom (secondary or grades 7-12) is less successful and often absorbs Prince Royal and Montfort students who don't pass their matayom 4 exam.

This April Varee is opening an international section at the school and will be running the IGCSE. They are also hiring full accredited teachers to work in it. What it's going to be like I don't know.

As for Prem I've had a couple of dealings with them and have found them to be as disorganized as any of the other schools here but at double the price.

i to a certain extent agree with your comment about disorganisation, personally i will give it another year, and take it from there.

[alfieconn]

I have been very impressed by Varee and all the students I have met from there. The two children aged 10 and 12 next door speak ecellent English, seem well educated and are 100% Thai and learnt all their English at Varee.

It is also pretty much in Chiang Mai with excellent travel access.

Would Varee not be worth considering?

Iain

Varee isn't an International School. It is a private Thai school with a bilingual programme and an 'official' English Programme (EP). Ajarn Varee is a very impressive woman who has built this school from scratch in just 5 years. It's EP is very successful but only goes up to pratom 5 I think. The matayom (secondary or grades 7-12) is less successful and often absorbs Prince Royal and Montfort students who don't pass their matayom 4 exam.

This April Varee is opening an international section at the school and will be running the IGCSE. They are also hiring full accredited teachers to work in it. What it's going to be like I don't know.

As for Prem I've had a couple of dealings with them and have found them to be as disorganized as any of the other schools here but at double the price.

i to a certain extent agree with your comment about disorganisation, personally i will give it another year, and take it from there.

IMO any school run by Thais is going to be disorganised !

[ferd54]

teaching certificates doesn't necessarily = a good teacher, it only indicates they have an official document.

It doesn't mean that they are necessarily good teachers, but it does show that they have chosen teaching as a profession, have the training required and experience that has been checked by other professionals. The certified teachers I have met seemed not only qualified, but also dedicated.

Of course teachers vary, just as lawyers, priests, or auto mechanics do.

As a group, certified teachers are head and shoulders above many of the nutjobs that I've met who "teach" in Thailand.

[Bill97]

prem. has potentially to be not only the best school in thailand, but also of se asia, and if they achieve 80% of the goals they have set themselves, the school will be a truly recognised world education center.....but whether they achieve these set goals remains to be seen, like all schools it has its 'politics' prems no different, in addition to that the academies they have, seem in my opinion rather alienated from the rest of school,and if they were able to start school from scratch, im not really sure if any of the academies would exsist.

there going through a huge push academically, so any child who's attending over the next few years will feel the benefit of this ongoing world sought recognition.

mom tree ,the owner plays his part cash wise, and is the vision behind the school, but on the other hand he is the one who says yes or no to any spending, as is his right, but personally i think at times it can work against the school, when ultimate power is in the hands of one person

like so many schools, youv'e got great and poor teachers, each teacher has to to do a minimum of 2 years, after that its up to them and school if they remain, prem is no different.

considering prems fees are double any other school in chiangmai, and possibly thailand, parents expectations levels are huge, quite rightly, with prem constantly under scrutinisation it an added pressure for them to perform.

its all very well producing well rounded kids, which they will, but the bottom line as always is results, and without results, and by that i mean successful qualifications, prems reputation will diminish, theres no other way in todays society.

so the challenge for prem is quite clear, time as they say will tell.

nb. my son is into his 3 term at school , k2.

"parents expectations levels are huge, quite rightly, with prem constantly under scrutinisation it an added pressure for them to perform."

You can not scrutinize unless you are willing to make the effort to get information and find that information is available. Then process it rigorously. What percent of parents really bother?

"mom tree ,the owner"

Unless there has been a big change recently, he is not the sole owner, he has some ownership but other owners have enough share to significantly influence school policy and have done so in the past. Has there been a change recently?

"there going through a huge push academically"

It is the same goals and story they have been promoting since day 1. What are they doing that is going to bring about prompt substantial change? How much money are they going to spend for how many years to achieve that change? Who is going to provide that money? Why is this "huge push academically" going to achieve any more results than the pushes they have initiated annually over the past 10 years?

[whiterussian]

As a group, certified teachers are head and shoulders above many of the nutjobs that I've met who "teach" in Thailand.

I'm desperately trying to think of a good teacher at my top 1% grammar school - one that didn't leave the majority of the class wishing they were somewhere else.

Nope, 90% were nutjobs, usually wearing the same 70's style clothes they went to university in.

Considering the number of Thai young adults who want to go to the USA, I would have to conclude that they need some serious re-education. I have noticed more and more thinking about Australia lately, maybe the star spangled banner is losing its 'bling'.

Edited February 21, 2010 by whiterussian

[Ulysses G.]

Of course teachers vary, just as lawyers, priests, or auto mechanics do.

As a group, certified teachers are head and shoulders above many of the nutjobs that I've met who "teach" in Thailand.

The Thailand based teachers can probably drink them under the table though.

[ferd54]

I'm desperately trying to think of a good teacher at my top 1% grammar school - one that didn't leave the majority of the class wishing they were somewhere else.

What on earth does that have to do with the qualifications of foreigners teaching in Thailand? The real ones I've met were young, adventurous, open-minded AND qualified.

The "nutjobs" I'm talking about are the ones who do/sell/buy drugs from their students (yes I've known some), or don't even have a university degree at all (I've know quite a few), are sex creeps (quite a few) and other types of whack jobs -- Thailand used to be full of these folks teaching. A white face was all that was needed.

Certified teachers are an altogether different breed.

Sorry about your juvenile disappointment with school, but then that might also have had something to do with you.

[earlofwindermere]

A lot of the local international schools hire at Education Fairs where hundreds of people apply for positions at their school (esp Prem). Most of the international schools here can be quite selective on who they hire. I heard several years back that Prem actually Head Hunted its original teaching staff.

[Ulysses G.]

Sorry about your juvenile disappointment with school, but then that might also have had something to do with you.

Very cold!

Edited February 21, 2010 by Ulysses G.

[Bill97]

A lot of the local international schools hire at Education Fairs where hundreds of people apply for positions at their school (esp Prem). Most of the international schools here can be quite selective on who they hire. I heard several years back that Prem actually Head Hunted its original teaching staff.

Really Earl? Is that marketing information or based on a thorough look at the qualifications and experience of the people hired in relation to the jobs given?

[Greenside]

I have been very impressed by Varee and all the students I have met from there. The two children aged 10 and 12 next door speak ecellent English, seem well educated and are 100% Thai and learnt all their English at Varee.

It is also pretty much in Chiang Mai with excellent travel access.

Would Varee not be worth considering?

Iain

Varee isn't an International School. It is a private Thai school with a bilingual programme and an 'official' English Programme (EP). Ajarn Varee is a very impressive woman who has built this school from scratch in just 5 years. It's EP is very successful but only goes up to pratom 5 I think. The matayom (secondary or grades 7-12) is less successful and often absorbs Prince Royal and Montfort students who don't pass their matayom 4 exam.

This April Varee is opening an international section at the school and will be running the IGCSE. They are also hiring full accredited teachers to work in it. What it's going to be like I don't know.

As for Prem I've had a couple of dealings with them and have found them to be as disorganized as any of the other schools here but at double the price.

Varee Chiangmai School is opening an international annexe this August with an intake in years 7-10. They will, like Lanna International, be teaching the Cambridge IGCSE syllabus followed by A Levels and most likely the International Baccalaureate, although I believe they're keeping their options open so they can assess the demand from parents of the first wave of students. They seem to be taking this ambitious step very seriously and are having to recruit a whole new team of staff and I'm told their credendials are specified and monitored by the Cambridge board who administer the syllabus and exams. This new venture is going to run alongside the main school and will work to the same term structure as the other international schools in the area.

It's an interesting development for those like me with kids in their Prathom English Programme (up to Mattayom 3, by the way), allowing us to see how they get on learning in English before deciding which way to jump as far as the international bit goes. Incidentally, someone mentioned large class sizes - my son's class is 29 this year and was 30 last year: not as small as I'd ideally like but just about OK.

There's an ad in Citylife this month announcing their preview day for the International Annexe which is on Feb 27th at 10am - the EP parents got an invitation this week. Their website has an overview of the plans too.

[whiterussian]

The "nutjobs" I'm talking about are the ones who do/sell/buy drugs from their students (yes I've known some), or don't even have a university degree at all (I've know quite a few), are sex creeps (quite a few) and other types of whack jobs

Crickey! Druggies, Pedo's, Sex Creeps... and Dropouts! (you forgot yanks)

*shudder*

Let's hope daddy farang doesn't run a bar catering to these sorts to pay the term fees! (I've know quite a few)

Anyway, enough of this. Quite happy with the progess my kid is making in govt school. I will home school if needed later.

Edited February 21, 2010 by whiterussian

[ferd54]

As for Prem I've had a couple of dealings with them and have found them to be as disorganized as any of the other schools here but at double the price.

Prem is by no means the only option and they are notorious self-promoters. Whether they themselves started this "best school in SE Asia" thing or not, the statement is ludicrous. International School of Bangkok is truly world class (with an equally impressive pricetag). The big international schools in Kuala Lumphur and Jakarta also have outstanding reputations.

I think all the international schools in Chiang Mai offer a better education than I got in my local schools in the US. If if were up to me with kids in Chiang Mai I'd give Prem a pass and take a hard look at CMIS.

[Ricardo]

Varee Chiangmai School is opening an international annexe this August with an intake in years 7-10. They will, like Lanna International, be teaching the Cambridge IGCSE syllabus followed by A Levels and most likely the International Baccalaureate, although I believe they're keeping their options open so they can assess the demand from parents of the first wave of students.

Unfortunately their web-site for the new International-Annexe doesn't make any mention of teaching the IB-programmes, PYP or MYP or Diploma, which might mean they're not yet actually planning/recruiting on this basis, and it therefore may not happen. As you had made clear above.

From time to time rumours circulate about other C.M. schools starting one or another stage with I.B., but I believe that at present Prem is the only one actually delivering this, and it does so throughout the school, which is understandably reflected in their costs and fees to parents.

Prem's web-site claims "one of the leading boarding schools in Asia" and "ranked amongst the best international schools in Thailand", which is a long way from claiming to be "best school in S.E.Asia", however I think it's reasonable to aim high, as both Varee & Prem seem to be doing.

It will be interesting to see where Varee stands with this new project, in a couple of years time, right now it looks more like an attempt to tap into possible demand for another central-C.M. international school, offering "a dedicated floor of a new building" and "its own teaching staff" ? What might be the impact on their plans of a rumoured possible new-campus for CMIS, or whatever eventually happens with Grace, still remains to be seen.

Edited February 22, 2010 by Ricardo

[ferd54]

Prem's web-site claims "one of the leading boarding schools in Asia" and "ranked amongst the best international schools in Thailand", which is a long way from claiming to be "best school in S.E.Asia"....

Ranked by whom? I actually searched for a ranking compiled by someone and could find none at all. So they ranked themselves this way? Is this the kind of fact they teach their students to search out in research?

Edited February 22, 2010 by ferd54

[Bill97]

Prem's web-site claims "one of the leading boarding schools in Asia" and "ranked amongst the best international schools in Thailand", which is a long way from claiming to be "best school in S.E.Asia"....

Ranked by whom? I actually searched for a ranking compiled by someone and could find none at all. So they ranked themselves this way? Is this the kind of fact they teach their students to search out in research?

I think somehow your quote was not from Greenside but was what Ricardo wrote. No problem.

It will be interesting to see if anybody comes up with the studies that justify their claims.

Come on Premies we know you are reading so set us straight with the real facts from the ranking studies and the references for them.

[Ricardo]

Ranked by whom? I actually searched for a ranking compiled by someone and could find none at all. So they ranked themselves this way? Is this the kind of fact they teach their students to search out in research?

Not by themselves, no, obviously not.

Prem invest serious money, on 2-yearly International Schools' Assessment (ISA) tests developed by the Australian Council for Educational Research, which are used to test students from many international schools across Asia. This provides useful information to the school, on areas of strength or weakness, for classes at all levels throughout the Junior & Senior Schools, and is a good example of PTIS putting its money where its mouth is.

I have a link to the ACER information, but believe that I cannot post it (under forum rules), anyone interested please just PM me. Or perhaps google on ACER & education & australia for their web-site.

[PeaceBlondie]

Ricardo, I think we'll allow that link.

[ferd54]

I think somehow your quote was not from Greenside but was what Ricardo wrote. No problem.

Apologies to both -- or for that matter, all around.

[Bill97]

Ranked by whom? I actually searched for a ranking compiled by someone and could find none at all. So they ranked themselves this way? Is this the kind of fact they teach their students to search out in research?

Not by themselves, no, obviously not.

Prem invest serious money, on 2-yearly International Schools' Assessment (ISA) tests developed by the Australian Council for Educational Research, which are used to test students from many international schools across Asia. This provides useful information to the school, on areas of strength or weakness, for classes at all levels throughout the Junior & Senior Schools, and is a good example of PTIS putting its money where its mouth is.

I have a link to the ACER information, but believe that I cannot post it (under forum rules), anyone interested please just PM me. Or perhaps google on ACER & education & australia for their web-site.

Great, bring on the data. Sorting through that website, I did not find any test results for Prem or any other school, tried 3 different searches of the site.

By "2-yearly" do you mean twice a year or once in two years? "For classes at all levels throughout the Junior and Senior Schools", are you sure? For how long have they been doing that testing?

Edited February 22, 2010 by Bill97

[Ricardo]

Ricardo, I think we'll allow that link.

Thanks ! www.acer.edu.au/tests/school.html is the link we were given for information about the tests.

[Ricardo]

By "2-yearly" do you mean twice a year or once in two years? "For classes at all levels throughout the Junior and Senior Schools", are you sure? For how long have they been doing that testing?

My kids get done every 2nd year, and my experience is with grades 3 & 8, over the past 5 years. The results are a mass of information, we get to see results for our individual children, but you'd need to be an expert statistician to really understand it all !

Hope this helps.

[Bill97]

Ricardo, I think we'll allow that link.

Thanks ! www.acer.edu.au/tests/school.html is the link we were given for information about the tests.

That is the site I went to, but no information about test results for Prem could I found. Just a lot of information about what ACER does.

[Ricardo]

Right, I suspect that the detailed-information may therefore be confidential, to the schools that pay for it ?

But the list of participating (in 2008-9) schools, which have agreed to publish their names, seems to include about a dozen in Thailand, and names include APIS & CMIS & ISB & PTIS.

[Mapguy]

I was initially surprised to see this thread resurrected, but in the end there are good reasons for it: People who care how well their children are educated. And there are, unfortunately also some snipers, some apparently with bones to pick. And, of course, some idle chatter, as usual.

I have just reread the whole thread, and there's a reasonable discussion of Prem here. Are you a new reader? You should start at the beginning of the thread.

By the way, those looking for more information on other schools in Chiang Mai can find it by key wording "Varee," (mentioned often here) "International Schools Chiang Mai" and so on. This discussion should be focused on Prem.

I think that there are some misconceptions about Prem compared to other schools except on one point: price. It is clear as clear can be that Prem is a very expensive school. If you are considering local schools, as most people are, Chiang Mai is blessed with a highly unusual number of respectable-enough international schools. Prem does not seek to serve Chiang Mai so much as appeal to a much broader global audience of professional transients. Yes, it does indeed promote itself as a local school. And it is, considering that it is only ten years or so old, more than nominally effectively in improving itself from year to year with a much broader number of schools in Thailand and internationally.

Remember that, other than CMIS and Grace (both generally), the CM schools are not subsidised by having teachers on special stipend from sponsoring groups abroad or underpaying teachers. And that is not to say that there are not some fine teachers at some of these schools. But overall they don't come close to matching Prem --- but you pay for it! If you know anything about school budgets, you will appreciate that they are highly labor-intensive in cost. In the end, you get what you pay for.

All schools have warts. Prem is no exception. Just remember that Prem is not yet an old established school and really not interested in making money on local families. It has a much broader international focus than that of the other schools in town, especially a school like Varee. And that is not to speak ill of Varee or Prem, either Both are business models of one sort or another. Madame Varee and Khun Mom Tri both have some genuine interest and "visions" in education (as do many of the "powers that be" at the other schools in town that are mentioned in the conversation from time to time).

For other more thorough discussions of school characteristics (e.g., class size and faculty credentials) you will have to search Thai Visa Chiang Mai, or, perish the thought (!), actually visit the schools !!! If you do decide to visit schools, would you know what to look for beyond "nice people" and "pleasant students?" Do you know what important questions to ask? You have to do some homework, too, before you set out.

Finally, yes, schools are important, but the most important influence on a child's education is the impact of two things: parents' educational level and socioeconomic status. Both are related to income level. And if you want to check me out, just start googling! It's all there!

In any case, I wish all well on what is really something important to think about.