Norwegian Woman And American Woman Die Of Unknown Causes on Koh Phi Phi

[brahmburgers]

I still lean to the theory of either noxious fumes from the septic system coming up through un-trapped shower drains, or pesticides somehow getting in re-cycled bottled water containers, or some sort of badly executed fumigation in the rooms, just prior to the deaths.

Either way, the complete lack of useful data from investigators shows a cover-up by inept authorities. Shameful.

[Thai at Heart]

I still lean to the theory of either noxious fumes from the septic system coming up through un-trapped shower drains, or pesticides somehow getting in re-cycled bottled water containers, or some sort of badly executed fumigation in the rooms, just prior to the deaths.

Either way, the complete lack of useful data from investigators shows a cover-up by inept authorities. Shameful.

Pesticide in the water or inept fumigation I agree.

[fiddlehead]

I was surprised that the John Carradine death investigation allowed the US FBI to come in and observe and perhaps help with the investigation.

If only that was allowed in this case. I'd bet it would be solved fairly quickly.

Obviously a cover up for someone to save face IMO.

[Nam Plah]

Mystery continues to confound investigation efforts.

Breaking:

PhuketWan reports.

Phi Phi Riddle: Pursuing the Deaths of Two Tourists

By Alan Morison and Chutima Sidasathian

Sunday, June 28, 2009 NORWEGIAN police are reported to be keen to pursue the case of the two young tourists who died mysteriously on the holiday island of Phi Phi almost two months ago.

Officers in the home town of one of the victims, Julie Bergheim, are said to be agitating for a second autopsy in an attempt to solve the riddle of the Laleena Guesthouse.

Other avenues of investigation so far have failed to explain what caused the deaths of Miss Bergheim, 22, and American Jill St Onge, 27.

FULL STORY

http://phuketwan.com/tourism/phi-phi-riddl...ng-death-11275/

Why the silence on the part of Kells and the young Norwegian girl?

Where is Quincy when you need him?

Edited June 28, 2009 by Nam Plah

[cmdream]

Mystery continues to confound investigation efforts.

Breaking:

PhuketWan reports.

Phi Phi Riddle: Pursuing the Deaths of Two Tourists

By Alan Morison and Chutima Sidasathian

Sunday, June 28, 2009 NORWEGIAN police are reported to be keen to pursue the case of the two young tourists who died mysteriously on the holiday island of Phi Phi almost two months ago.

Officers in the home town of one of the victims, Julie Bergheim, are said to be agitating for a second autopsy in an attempt to solve the riddle of the Laleena Guesthouse.

Other avenues of investigation so far have failed to explain what caused the deaths of Miss Bergheim, 22, and American Jill St Onge, 27.

FULL STORY

http://phuketwan.com/tourism/phi-phi-riddl...ng-death-11275/

Why the silence on the part of Kells and the young Norwegian girl?

Where is Quincy when you need him?

Now it is called a freak accident !!!! How about freak manslaughter or freak murder ??? SOMEONE knows what killed these two young ladies who came to Thailand to relax and have fun and ended up on autopsies slab. That person has the answer and should come forth and confess for their own peace of mind.

[JR Texas]

Mystery continues to confound investigation efforts.

Breaking:

PhuketWan reports.

Phi Phi Riddle: Pursuing the Deaths of Two Tourists

By Alan Morison and Chutima Sidasathian

Sunday, June 28, 2009 NORWEGIAN police are reported to be keen to pursue the case of the two young tourists who died mysteriously on the holiday island of Phi Phi almost two months ago.

Officers in the home town of one of the victims, Julie Bergheim, are said to be agitating for a second autopsy in an attempt to solve the riddle of the Laleena Guesthouse.

Other avenues of investigation so far have failed to explain what caused the deaths of Miss Bergheim, 22, and American Jill St Onge, 27.

FULL STORY

http://phuketwan.com/tourism/phi-phi-riddl...ng-death-11275/

Why the silence on the part of Kells and the young Norwegian girl?

Where is Quincy when you need him?

Now it is called a freak accident !!!! How about freak manslaughter or freak murder ??? SOMEONE knows what killed these two young ladies who came to Thailand to relax and have fun and ended up on autopsies slab. That person has the answer and should come forth and confess for their own peace of mind.

What about the seven mysterious deaths in the same region over a short period of time? Has the story died along with the victims in order to keep the tourists coming? I don't really understand why the focus is on these two victims when seven died and they may in fact all be linked somehow. But, that is just me, I guess.

[Nam Plah]

What about the seven mysterious deaths in the same region over a short period of time? Has the story died along with the victims in order to keep the tourists coming? I don't really understand why the focus is on these two victims when seven died and they may in fact all be linked somehow. But, that is just me, I guess.

Please post some info on the other 7 deaths. I know that everyone would be interested to find out if they are somehow interconnected via your assertions and investigations.

This thread was started to cover these two specific deaths in the same guesthouse over an extremely short period of time.

Since nobody has yet to link these two deaths to a common cause (as unbelievable as that is) it would certainly be tough to link the other 7 deaths you mentioned.

However I am extremely interested to hear specifics on the other victims and see if there is some commonality.

These two deaths were especially interesting because of the young age of the victims and their identical symptoms plus they were both staying next door to each other in the only 2 air-con rooms in this particular guesthouse on Phi Phi.

And yet the authorities have not drawn a solid connection between the two cases.

[JR Texas]

What about the seven mysterious deaths in the same region over a short period of time? Has the story died along with the victims in order to keep the tourists coming? I don't really understand why the focus is on these two victims when seven died and they may in fact all be linked somehow. But, that is just me, I guess.

Please post some info on the other 7 deaths. I know that everyone would be interested to find out if they are somehow interconnected via your assertions and investigations.

This thread was started to cover these two specific deaths in the same guesthouse over an extremely short period of time.

Since nobody has yet to link these two deaths to a common cause (as unbelievable as that is) it would certainly be tough to link the other 7 deaths you mentioned.

However I am extremely interested to hear specifics on the other victims and see if there is some commonality.

These two deaths were especially interesting because of the young age of the victims and their identical symptoms plus they were both staying next door to each other in the only 2 air-con rooms in this particular guesthouse on Phi Phi.

And yet the authorities have not drawn a solid connection between the two cases.

The information was posted on a different thread (too bad the two threads ran separately).

All I know is that it is highly improbable that there is no connection among seven separate deaths of foreigners (not Thais) that took place within a short span of time within the same region of Thailand.

As far as I know, that is totally unprecedented.

If that had happened in the USA, the entire mass media have been talking about the possibility of a serial killer taking all of them out. It would have made all of the major newspapers.

In Thailand, the explanation became "sewerage leak "or "bad AC"........etc. Odd.........but if the idea is to bury it all in order to make money (i.e., don't scare away tourists), it makes sense.

[cmdream]

Its a sad situation for those involved, I feel for you.

[brahmburgers]

Anything new? ...or is it still a cover-up, rent with stalling and inept/non-existent detective work.

[luvU2much500THB]

Anything new? ...or is it still a cover-up, rent with stalling and inept/non-existent detective work.

Wondering myself,too

[balo]

I know the Norwegian police have been trying to investigate this case on behalf of Julie Bergheims family , but no news about this in the media so far.

[cmdream]

I know the Norwegian police have been trying to investigate this case on behalf of Julie Bergheims family , but no news about this in the media so far.

This is as near a conspiracy as I can imagine. Nobody in an official capacity

has any answers to how and why these young and healthy folks died. I would expect more from my home embassy about what they are doing.

Is there a travel warning about Phi Phi Island where they mysteriously were killed. Yes they were killed, they did not die from natural events. At least a boycott of the island should be in place until this mess is resolved. This really bothers me. <deleted> is going on !

[Absingjul]

A 24 year old girl from Kuwait died last week.

Took a day trip to Phi Phi, had to go to hospital same night for coughing, dead by morning.

Warning: Graphic Image

http://www.siangtai.com/TH/newspage1_detai...p?News_ID=22925

[bkkjames]

I wonder if she had too much to drink that night as well?

[verydumbubba]

Probably - most are closet alcoholics

Bubba

[manuchaomk]

sad, really.

[JR Texas]

I wonder if she had too much to drink that night as well?

I am guessing you are joking...........this makes victim number 8.........what is going on?

Why no answers?

And why does anyone still believe these are natural deaths?

[mrtoad]

I know the Norwegian police have been trying to investigate this case on behalf of Julie Bergheims family , but no news about this in the media so far.

This is as near a conspiracy as I can imagine. Nobody in an official capacity

has any answers to how and why these young and healthy folks died. I would expect more from my home embassy about what they are doing.

Is there a travel warning about Phi Phi Island where they mysteriously were killed. Yes they were killed, they did not die from natural events. At least a boycott of the island should be in place until this mess is resolved. This really bothers me. <deleted> is going on !

In any country that actually gave a shit, there would be a proper investigation, and if there were unexplained deaths then the places concerned would probably be closed until the reason is known. What really sad is that a number of people have now died, and there appears no will to actually fin out the reasons. Probably another face saving exercise from the authorities.

[katana]

A 24 year old girl from Kuwait died last week.

Took a day trip to Phi Phi, had to go to hospital same night for coughing, dead by morning.

Warning: Graphic Image

http://www.siangtai.com/TH/newspage1_detai...p?News_ID=22925

In the news article they say she was a Kuwaiti student nurse on holiday in Thailand with her family. She fell ill in Patong in Phuket with a fever, cough and sneezing shortly after returning from Pi Pi Island.

She went to the hospital in Patong who gave her some medicine to take before she went to sleep. However after taking it and going to bed, she never woke up. The father thinks they may have given her the wrong medicine and they're waiting for an autopsy.

Condolences to the family.

[Nam Plah]

Late Breaking News:

Have we seen the smoking gun?

This just in from Jill St. Ong's memorial blog posted by RobbAce July 22, 2009 regarding Jill's autopsy reports from the Thai inquiry.

http://jillstonge.blogspot.com/

The Thailand autopsy report is a joke. It was about three pages long and most of it was margin space and emblems. I believe here in the states an autopsy report starts at around 20 pages, and for something like what happened to Jill would be much longer.

It did verify that there were NO drugs or alcohol in her system, so those bogus rogue Thailand reports from "Government officials" can be put to rest. The only bit of information we got out of it was a low level of the enzyme Acetylcholinesterase. Please take a look at this Wiki page about what could cause this enzyme to be lowered.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetylcholinesterase_inhibitor

What are potential Acetylcholinesterase inhibitors? The list includes chemicals like nerve gas agents...

But more likely some form of organophosphate pesticide like Parathion for instance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parathion

Parathion is a cholinesterase inhibitor. It generally disrupts the nervous system by inhibiting the acetylcholinesterase. It is absorbed via skin, mucous membranes, and orally. Absorbed Parathion is rapidly metabolized to Paraoxon, as described above. Paraoxon exposure can result in headaches, convulsions, poor vision, vomiting, abdominal pain, severe diarrhea, unconsciousness, tremor, dyspnea, and finally lung-edema as well as respiratory arrest.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pesticide_poisoning

Anticholinesterase poisoning

If one is regularly using carbamate and organophosphate pesticides, it is important to obtain a baseline cholinesterase test. Cholinesterase is an important enzyme of the nervous system, and these chemical groups kill pests, and potentially injure or kill humans by inhibiting cholinesterase

The evidence is scant but damning.

Either through negligence or malice it appears that these people have been poisoned.

[Mai Krap]

Cholera?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cholera

Cholera

Cholera, sometimes known as Asiatic or epidemic cholera, is an infectious gastroenteritis caused by enterotoxin-producing strains of the bacterium Vibrio cholerae.[1][2] Transmission to humans occurs through eating food or drinking water contaminated with Vibrio cholerae from other cholera patients. The major reservoir for cholera was long assumed to be humans themselves, but considerable evidence exists that aquatic environments can serve as reservoirs of the bacteria.

Vibrio cholerae is a Gram-negative bacterium that produces cholera toxin, an enterotoxin, whose action on the mucosal epithelium lining of the small intestine is responsible for the disease's most salient characteristic, exhaustive diarrhea.[1] In its most severe forms, cholera is one of the most rapidly fatal illnesses known, and a healthy person's blood pressure may drop to hypotensive levels within an hour of the onset of symptoms; infected patients may die within three hours if medical treatment is not provided.[1] In a common scenario, the disease progresses from the first liquid stool to shock in 4 to 12 hours, with death following in 18 hours to several days, unless oral rehydration therapy is provided.[3][4]

The majority of reported cholera cases worldwide occur in Africa. It is estimated that most cases of cholera are unreported due to poor suveillance systems, particularly in Africa. Fatality rates are 5% of total cases in Africa, and less than 1% elsewhere.[5] For a map of recent international outbreaks, see:[3]

Treatment

In most cases cholera can be successfully treated with oral rehydration therapy. Prompt replacement of water and electrolytes is the principal treatment for cholera, as dehydration and electrolyte depletion occur rapidly. Oral rehydration therapy or ORT is highly effective, safe, and simple to administer. In situations where commercially produced ORT sachets are too expensive or difficult to obtain, alternative homemade solutions using various formulas of water, sugar, table salt, baking soda, and fruit offer less expensive methods of electrolyte repletion. In severe cholera cases with significant dehydration, the administration of intravenous rehydration solutions may be necessary.

Antibiotics shorten the course of the disease, and reduce the severity of the symptoms. However Oral rehydration therapy remains the principal treatment. Tetracycline is typically used as the primary antibiotic, although some strains of V. cholerae exist that have shown resistance. Other antibiotics that have been proven effective against V. cholerae include cotrimoxazole, erythromycin, doxycycline, chloramphenicol, and furazolidone.[6] Fluoroquinolones such as norfloxacin also may be used, but resistance has been reported.[7]

Rapid diagnostic assay methods are available for the identification of multidrug resistant V. cholerae.[8] New generation antimicrobials have been discovered which are effective against V. cholerae in in vitro studies.[9]

The success of treatment is significantly affected by the speed and method of treatment. If cholera patients are treated quickly and properly, the mortality rate is less than 1%; however, with untreated cholera the mortality rate rises to 50–60%.[10][11]

[dttk0009]

Sounds like there's a serial killer who's fond of poisoning farangs. I certainly won't be heading there any time soon.

[Nam Plah]

Was that an intentional Red Herring "Mai Krap"?

Cholera? Really?

Please reread the entire thread to see that the symptoms of Cholera have nowhere been evident in either of these cases.

"Exhaustive Diarrhea" having never been mentioned in association with these cases or the pathologies that led to these deaths.

Furthermore IF it were Cholera that killed these folks the Thai investigators would have been able to report the presence of the bacterium Vibrio cholerae with much gusto and vindication.

I think it is fair to say that the cat is out of the bag.

Organophosphate pesticides are cheap, readily obtained and are among the most poisonous compounds used for such purposes.

For my part with nothing sought to gain, will not let this fade into silent obscurity.

Justice for the victims.

Edited July 24, 2009 by Nam Plah

[balo]

Thanks for the new information from the autopsy.

I now believe we are talking about poison and that someone did this on purpose. I see no other reason to these horrible deaths.

Who will be the next victim ?

Edited July 24, 2009 by balo

[Mai Krap]

Was that an intentional Red Herring "Mai Krap"?

Cholera? Really?

Please reread the entire thread to see that the symptoms of Cholera have nowhere been evident in either of these cases.

"Exhaustive Diarrhea" having never been mentioned in association with these cases or the pathologies that led to these deaths.

Furthermore IF it were Cholera that killed these folks the Thai investigators would have been able to report the presence of the bacterium Vibrio cholerae with much gusto and vindication.

I think it is fair to say that the cat is out of the bag.

Organophosphate pesticides are cheap, readily obtained and are among the most poisonous compounds used for such purposes.

For my part with nothing sought to gain, will not let this fade into silent obscurity.

Justice for the victims.

Not intended as a Red Herring, I would like to see this resolved as much as anybody. I will not be writing off cholera so quick though, will wait and see what medical testing can be done to prove it Cholera or not.

I suspect that if it is Cholera that is all the more reason for a large scale cover up as it is very scary for tourists. It would be easy to write off a couple accidental deaths. The Gov could even throw the guesthouse staff in prison and make a good show for the press. If it were to prove Cholera, there is no simple clean up as you would need to build a new infrastructure to dispose of waste correctly on Phi Phi and in Phuket.

May all the victims rest in peace as those of us who are still outraged by this tragedy search for answers.

[Nam Plah]

Was that an intentional Red Herring "Mai Krap"?

Cholera? Really?

Please reread the entire thread to see that the symptoms of Cholera have nowhere been evident in either of these cases.

"Exhaustive Diarrhea" having never been mentioned in association with these cases or the pathologies that led to these deaths.

Furthermore IF it were Cholera that killed these folks the Thai investigators would have been able to report the presence of the bacterium Vibrio cholerae with much gusto and vindication.

I think it is fair to say that the cat is out of the bag.

Organophosphate pesticides are cheap, readily obtained and are among the most poisonous compounds used for such purposes.

For my part with nothing sought to gain, will not let this fade into silent obscurity.

Justice for the victims.

Not intended as a Red Herring, I would like to see this resolved as much as anybody. I will not be writing off cholera so quick though, will wait and see what medical testing can be done to prove it Cholera or not.

I suspect that if it is Cholera that is all the more reason for a large scale cover up as it is very scary for tourists. It would be easy to write off a couple accidental deaths. The Gov could even throw the guesthouse staff in prison and make a good show for the press. If it were to prove Cholera, there is no simple clean up as you would need to build a new infrastructure to dispose of waste correctly on Phi Phi and in Phuket.

May all the victims rest in peace as those of us who are still outraged by this tragedy search for answers.

Ok I'll play....

Fatality rates are 5% of total cases in Africa, and less than 1% elsewhere

Since we know of 4 people in this particular case affected and 2 have succumbed that puts the mortality rate at 50%.

The numbers don't add up, neither do the symptoms or findings from the blood/tissue samples or autopsy report.

will wait and see what medical testing can be done to prove it Cholera or not.

Considering the fact that Jill St. John's body was cremated (in LOS) and her remains nonviable for testing at this point

I suspect your wait and see approach is the strategy that the local investigators are counting on...

Occam's razor has me looking in a different direction though.

[Town35]

I still believe that the circumstances of the deaths of the two females on Phi Phi, along with the illnesses of their travel companions, do not seem to fit a typical outbreak of any virus or bacteria. By reading this entire post, chemical poisoning seems to fit much better as a cause. Regarding the death of the Kuwaiti visitor, there are still a lot of unknown facts but the death seems once again, suspicious. In all three cases of death of the female victims, they all became sick so rapidly that they were unable to seek help during the final stage of the illness. I was stationed on a large base in the Philippines for 4 years with 25,000 other troops and family members with occasional visits of over 2,000 troops for exercises. All the same conditions were present, heat, alcohol, and tropical diseases. However, had 2 unrelated, healthy, and young people that lived next to each other in one of the base's dormitories suddenly become ill and died, it would have been the biggest news of the decade. Nothing even close ever happened. Yes, people became very ill for many reasons, but never 2 strangers that lived next to each other followed by sudden death. Some may feel that this may be just something that happens often in 3rd world tropical countries but it doesn't. This kind of event requires negligence or malicious intent. Anyway, I can guarantee you that I will not be visiting Phi Phi anytime soon.

Regards -- Town

[NanLaew]

I haven't checked on this thread since page 3 so with page 23 still speculating, I won't re-read everything. However, this possible poisoning by herbicides seems to hold credence for the moment?

The last time I was on Phi Phi was 1979 (overnighted after a storm coming back from Phang Nga). The place now bears no resemblance to what it was then so in order to control what would otherwise be overwhelming natural flora, is it feasible that all these developments use herbicides without regulation? Also assuming that these places pretty much share the same water table, is it feasible that the local water supply is contaminated? Possible that some establishments have water sources and/or storage that concentrates potential killer chemicals?

This theory may already have been raised and done away with so apologies if that is the case. However, anywhere else in the world, this would have been resolved by now so shame on the Provincial authorities for dragging their feet and on the government for letting this sit on a back-burner... while the nearby ASEAN pantomime grabbed the headlines.

[Nam Plah]

is it feasible that all these developments use herbicides without regulation? Also assuming that these places pretty much share the same water table, is it feasible that the local water supply is contaminated? Possible that some establishments have water sources and/or storage that concentrates potential killer chemicals?

Had their been a mass poisoning where scores of people reported the same symptoms then I would have to agree that the public waterworks could have been contaminated.

But this case's reported severity of physiological symptoms and rapidity of mortality in succumbing to the heretofore "unknown pathogen" (now assumed to be an organophosphate pesticide due to the lab results reporting low Acetylcholinesterase blood levels) leads an astute observer to conclude that this was a discrete and targeted incident of poisoning.

All of those involved had in some manner reported a foul/chemical odor in the two affected rooms.

• Was pesticide used in an ill-advised manner in these rooms prior to check-in?
  
• Was there an accidental spill of said chemical(s)?
  
• Did someone purposely introduce toxic vapors to these rooms?
  
• Did the individuals purchase something that was impregnated with these chemicals (fruit or flowers) and either ingest or inhale the toxins inadvertently?
  

Why are we the only ones asking these questions?

Considering how dire the Tourist situation currently is in the LOS and that destinations like Koh Phi Phi Don rely on tourism for their local economy, having a spate of unsolved tourist deaths doesn't seem to be a very effective marketing draw.

If these were accidental poisonings the TAT and Government should make ammends to the families and ensure that similar indicents are avoided through proper safeguards.

Else if this is a criminal act the authorities should pursue the matter as a murder investigation and bring the perpetrators to justice.

As it stands currently this has become a case of; "Gee, I dunno, some kind of freak accidental thingie. It's a shame, oh well. Life goes on you know..."

Inexcusable.

Nuff said.