Medical Care In Vientiane/laos

[Kaoboi Bebobp]

I've been mulling over the idea of spending a lot of time in Laos. I just spent 7 months in Bangkok and, well, I don't have to tell most of you how good hospital/dental care can be in BKK. But, Thailand is becoming less and less attractive as a retirement destination. What's the service quality and availability in Vientiane?

Going against Lao medical care is the experience of a friend of mine who had a minor moto accident. Second-degree burns from the muffler on an overturned bike. He was about two hours outside of Vientiane. Basically, the doctor told him to treat it himself. My friend goes off to an Internet cafe, researches burns but feels unqualified to find the drugs and treat himself. No kidding. He went back to the hospital and ordered the doctor to treat him. The doc gets a nurse and she looks after my friend. He continues the trip but goes directly to BKK Hospital when he gets back to get proper treatment.

Thanks for the input.

[uhuh]

I've been mulling over the idea of spending a lot of time in Laos. I just spent 7 months in Bangkok and, well, I don't have to tell most of you how good hospital/dental care can be in BKK. But, Thailand is becoming less and less attractive as a retirement destination. What's the service quality and availability in Vientiane?

Going against Lao medical care is the experience of a friend of mine who had a minor moto accident. Second-degree burns from the muffler on an overturned bike. He was about two hours outside of Vientiane. Basically, the doctor told him to treat it himself. My friend goes off to an Internet cafe, researches burns but feels unqualified to find the drugs and treat himself. No kidding. He went back to the hospital and ordered the doctor to treat him. The doc gets a nurse and she looks after my friend. He continues the trip but goes directly to BKK Hospital when he gets back to get proper treatment.

Thanks for the input.

Laos is rapidly building new hospitals (usually far from the town center) but old-style hospitals like in Muang Sing are still very common.

Provincial hospitals now have X-ray and ultrasound.

In each town you can find at least a tiny “Pharmacie” with basic antibiotics, antacids, disinfectants, bandages.

Hospitals in Laos are not crowded (because care is not free).

Medical care is still extremely basic and outside the capital it is worse. Morale is low, job attendance sporadic. This applies to provincial hospitals and the hospitals in Vientiane as well: there may be no doctor in the hospital, phone calls are not always taken. Most health care is ineffectual.

Serious cases should be referred directly to Nong Khai, Udorn Thani (both in North-East Thailand) or Bangkok. Nong Khai – Udon is about one hour by road. There are flights to Bangkok from Vientiane and from Udon.

If you get sick in Vientiane and you have a vehicle you can be in a Thai hospital in 1 hour. Being admitted to a Lao hospital will take just as long. Go to Thailand or, even better, go to Dr Hospied from CMAF (see below) and have him evaluate the situation. It may not be worth it to go to Nong Khai (Thailand) as medical care there is limited, and even going to Udon (one hour further inside Thailand) may only mean further transport to Khon Kaen or Bangkok so why not go to Bangkok in the first place – after stabilization in Laos.

CMAF Centre Medical de l’Ambassade de France

Despite the misleading name, this is Laos’ first and only foreign run private clinic.

Accepts all foreigners, but is not allowed to treat Lao citizens.

Emergency 020-655 4794 (24 hrs), appointments 020-558 4617 or 021-214150, near Wat Simuang and Green Park Hotel on Bvd Kouvieng on the football field opposite Nong Chan Park (not easy to find and not yet well known). Dr Jean-Marie Hospied (years of experience with SOS in Asia) and a French dentist , has lab and USG, no X-ray. Physiotherapy, speech therapy. Pharmacy.

Can check Troponin and get a lysis done. Has rabies vaccine and snake serum. 1 room for observation. Vacuum mattress for transports, can organize ambulance with doctor.

30 USD

[technocracy]

Laos is rapidly building new hospitals (usually far from the town center) but old-style hospitals like in Muang Sing are still very common.

Where? I've not seen an new ones! The are renovating certain one but I do not know any new buildings.

Provincial hospitals now have X-ray and ultrasound.

In each town you can find at least a tiny “Pharmacie” with basic antibiotics, antacids, disinfectants, bandages.

Hospitals in Laos are not crowded (because care is not free).

In every town I think you'll find more like 10 Pharmacies! These Pharmacies often have a surprisingly good stock of medicines Ciproflaxacin, Doxycyclin, Metronidazole etc. readily available. In the centre of Vientiane you can get virtually all commonly prescribed drugs.

Medical care is still extremely basic and outside the capital it is worse. Morale is low, job attendance sporadic. This applies to provincial hospitals and the hospitals in Vientiane as well: there may be no doctor in the hospital, phone calls are not always taken. Most health care is ineffectual.

Serious cases should be referred directly to Nong Khai, Udorn Thani (both in North-East Thailand) or Bangkok. Nong Khai – Udon is about one hour by road. There are flights to Bangkok from Vientiane and from Udon.

If you get sick in Vientiane and you have a vehicle you can be in a Thai hospital in 1 hour. Being admitted to a Lao hospital will take just as long. Go to Thailand or, even better, go to Dr Hospied from CMAF (see below) and have him evaluate the situation. It may not be worth it to go to Nong Khai (Thailand) as medical care there is limited, and even going to Udon (one hour further inside Thailand) may only mean further transport to Khon Kaen or Bangkok so why not go to Bangkok in the first place – after stabilization in Laos.

Most clinics unfortunately rely on guess work many do not fully understand the treatment required - self diagnosis and treatment via information off the Internet is superior to many.

The WHG Hospital in Nong Khai is far from bad and AEK Udon is a recognised International standard hospital equal to what Bangkok can offer. Sure Bangkok may be slightly more specialised but it would have to something very severe and life threatening to require airlifting to Bangkok!

CMAF Centre Medical de l’Ambassade de France

Despite the misleading name, this is Laos’ first and only foreign run private clinic.

Accepts all foreigners, but is not allowed to treat Lao citizens.

Emergency 020-655 4794 (24 hrs), appointments 020-558 4617 or 021-214150, near Wat Simuang and Green Park Hotel on Bvd Kouvieng on the football field opposite Nong Chan Park (not easy to find and not yet well known). Dr Jean-Marie Hospied (years of experience with SOS in Asia) and a French dentist , has lab and USG, no X-ray. Physiotherapy, speech therapy. Pharmacy.

Can check Troponin and get a lysis done. Has rabies vaccine and snake serum. 1 room for observation. Vacuum mattress for transports, can organize ambulance with doctor.

30 USD

The rabies vaccine is available virtually everywhere. Also there is the Australian Clinic and the Australian Embassy which has the same kind of setup.

In terms of dental work - there is plenty of clinic around and the ones I've visited have provided equally as good work as Thailand.

[BigSnake]

On a recent visit to Isan, at a village part, I had a chance to chat with a Thai friend, who is the International Rep for the Private Hospital(Aek), he said the follow day he would be on a Hospital trip to Vientiane to meet with Hospital staff and attend a training Seminar. Hosptial standard in Laos(?) but at lease they of working with one of the best in this local area of Thailand.

[uhuh]

Laos is rapidly building new hospitals (usually far from the town center) but old-style hospitals like in Muang Sing are still very common.

Where? I've not seen an new ones! The are renovating certain one but I do not know any new buildings.

the Japanese Hospital (Sethathirat), the ER of the Russian Hospital (150-beds=Mitthaphap), the provincial hospitals of Ponmi, Luang Prabang, Luang Namtha, Udomxai, Pakse and Savannakhet, and the hospital of Vang Vieng are all new. Tha Khaek is the last major province without a new hospital.

[uhuh]

Provincial hospitals now have X-ray and ultrasound.

In each town you can find at least a tiny “Pharmacie” with basic antibiotics, antacids, disinfectants, bandages.

Hospitals in Laos are not crowded (because care is not free).

In every town I think you'll find more like 10 Pharmacies! These Pharmacies often have a surprisingly good stock of medicines Ciproflaxacin, Doxycyclin, Metronidazole etc. readily available. In the centre of Vientiane you can get virtually all commonly prescribed drugs.

The antibiotics you mention (Ciprofloxacin, Doxycyclin, Metronidazole) are basic antibiotics. Other antibiotics which are commonly prescribed in Thailand and the West include eg levofloxacin, amoxicillin/clavulanic acid, or even moxifloxacin. All of these will be very hard to find even in Luang Prabang. Amoxicillin/clavulanic acid is readily available in Vientiane, levofloxacin maybe, moxifloxacin probably not.

[uhuh]

Medical care is still extremely basic and outside the capital it is worse. Morale is low, job attendance sporadic. This applies to provincial hospitals and the hospitals in Vientiane as well: there may be no doctor in the hospital, phone calls are not always taken. Most health care is ineffectual.

Serious cases should be referred directly to Nong Khai, Udorn Thani (both in North-East Thailand) or Bangkok. Nong Khai – Udon is about one hour by road. There are flights to Bangkok from Vientiane and from Udon.

If you get sick in Vientiane and you have a vehicle you can be in a Thai hospital in 1 hour. Being admitted to a Lao hospital will take just as long. Go to Thailand or, even better, go to Dr Hospied from CMAF (see below) and have him evaluate the situation. It may not be worth it to go to Nong Khai (Thailand) as medical care there is limited, and even going to Udon (one hour further inside Thailand) may only mean further transport to Khon Kaen or Bangkok so why not go to Bangkok in the first place – after stabilization in Laos.

Most clinics unfortunately rely on guess work many do not fully understand the treatment required - self diagnosis and treatment via information off the Internet is superior to many.

The WHG Hospital in Nong Khai is far from bad and AEK Udon is a recognised International standard hospital equal to what Bangkok can offer. Sure Bangkok may be slightly more specialised but it would have to something very severe and life threatening to require airlifting to Bangkok!

WHG in Nong Khai (Udon is better): Not really much better than the public hospital. For Thai standards, this place is run down and not clean.

Aek Udon: one of the the best medical facilities in the upper north-east but still just a Thai provincial hospital. Cannot compare to Bangkok. No bypass operation possible, no cath lab or PTCA, must go to Khon Kaen or Bangkok. Not good at orthopedic surgery, maybe better go to Bangkok.

[uhuh]

CMAF Centre Medical de l’Ambassade de France

Despite the misleading name, this is Laos’ first and only foreign run private clinic.

Accepts all foreigners, but is not allowed to treat Lao citizens.

Emergency 020-655 4794 (24 hrs), appointments 020-558 4617 or 021-214150, near Wat Simuang and Green Park Hotel on Bvd Kouvieng on the football field opposite Nong Chan Park (not easy to find and not yet well known). Dr Jean-Marie Hospied (years of experience with SOS in Asia) and a French dentist , has lab and USG, no X-ray. Physiotherapy, speech therapy. Pharmacy.

Can check Troponin and get a lysis done. Has rabies vaccine and snake serum. 1 room for observation. Vacuum mattress for transports, can organize ambulance with doctor.

30 USD

The rabies vaccine is available virtually everywhere. Also there is the Australian Clinic and the Australian Embassy which has the same kind of setup.

In terms of dental work - there is plenty of clinic around and the ones I've visited have provided equally as good work as Thailand.

Australian Embassy Clinic Vientiane:

Those eligible - on a fee-paying basis - for the Australian Embassy Clinic services are:

Australian citizens and other countries’ citizens in Laos for whom Australia has consular responsibility (Canada, New Zealand, Papua New Guinea, U.K.) and their families. Diplomats of certain Embassies (under reciprocal arrangements elsewhere in the world).

They do not accept tourists from France, Germany, Sweden or Thailand.

[spaceshipcrew]

By own experience 2 years ago: I love Vientiane a thousand times more then any Thai city, but hospitals were a schocking experience.

My former Laotian girlfriend Noy had a minor motorbike accident but as result a painfull infection the day after. In few hours we have seen all Vientiane hospitals from the inside, including the regular hospital at beginning of Fanghum Road, the womans hospital furtheron, the International hospital, and Red Cross hospital. Consult 20 bath, medicines 30 bath and value for money. Doctors conclusion: it should heal by itself.

It did not feel comfortable at all and decided to bring her to the Nongkai Wattana Hospital right away. After a brief examination they transferred her by ambulance to the Udontani Wattana, the specialist was there and she needed immediate treatment. It appeared to be a serious infection that could have even caused death if not treated. We stayed there for 5 days.

After all I found both European styled Wattana Hospitals in Nongkai and Udontani a breath of fresh air after few personal experiences with the highly arrogant and sometimes incapable Chiangmai Ram One where only the cleaning girls are friendly.

But Vientiane standards you can compare with those of the poor side of Africa, people laying on the floor, dirty and dark, poor styled etc. and after all the treatment itself... I feel sorry for all the poor people of Laos who never could afford better.

PS we have not been in the mentioned foreign embassy clinics in Vientiane.

Noy

Edited May 17, 2009 by spaceshipcrew

[ironbark]

What's the service quality and availability in Vientiane?

Thanks for the input.

The Laos go to Thailand for medical help if they can afford it. .... Is that comment enough?

[sheff_mick]

What's the service quality and availability in Vientiane?

Thanks for the input.

The Laos go to Thailand for medical help if they can afford it. .... Is that comment enough?

Their number one choice being AEK Udon.

I,m not certain but i think they have special arrangements on cover and costs for it with this particular hospital.

If you are ugently in need of serious medical care and are able to make it, the nearest hospital being in Nong Khai of course, distance wise.

[PXR5]

Laos ... what a beautiful country. Vientiane ... what a quiet capital (it must be the quietest capital on earth !)

Accident ... pray to Budha, it won't happen !

I had a bad motorbike accident in 2006. Going south from Pakse towards the Cambodian border.

Too fast ... sand ... slick tires ... bad brakes ... left turn, there I go. I must have been unconscious for a minute or two. Some people sitting not far away, wouldn't get up.

My shoulder did hurt like hel_l. Eventually a few lao-bikers stopped and took me to an electric power station, where they had a nursery.

They wanted to give me an injection ... which I refused ... I took the drugs they gave me.

They ordered an ambulance, to take me to hospital.

About 1,5 hours later it arrived. I sat at the front of the ambulance ... and my bike lay at the rear ... well it was in bad condition as well !

Got to the "hospital", more pigs, chicken, dogs and other creatures, than humans !

Someone took me to a doctor. I was ordered to lie down. And then he pulled my arm like mad, and said : "luxation, luxation "

To hel_l with your luxation, I told him that it hurts, but he insisted on his luxation.

He had one of those old russian machines, took one X-ray and showed it to me : "you see it is ok, it is not broken !"

I looked at the X-ray ... it was all black, black as in real black. The communist machine was probably very, very old !

I took the drugs I got and ran out of the "hospital". The same night I managed to organise a truck to take me and my bike back to Pakse.

Went to a private clinic there. Again X-ray, and they noticed that my shoulder was broken, but could not do anything !

Took again the drugs and left.

I went back to Thailand, and had my flight back home to Europe 2 days later.

Went to a hospital at home. Diagnostic : shoulder broken and 5 rips broken ! No wonder I could only get into bed, but never managed to get out !

I love Laos ... but next time I'll be VERY careful !

My question is : what is gonna happen if you are unconscious or worse, fall into a coma ???? You probably wake up, and 1 arm is missing ! Thanks Doc.

[dieter1]

In another forum, I told people, that there is no helpful medical aid in Laos and Cambodia. And all what you can do, if you are in a real serious state of emergency, you can order a helicopter to fly you to the next good hospital in Thailand (or if not that a bad state, try to go to a Thai hospital as soon as possible).

And that you should avoid to seek medical help in both countries (especially upcountry), because it is mostly dangerous for you life (!).

Problem is: most people are just too stupid to understand, how (!) different these countries are compared to western standards. They just think, a doctor is a doctor and a hospital is a hospital. The people at the other forum did really start to insult me, just for me telling them the facts about the situation in Laos and Cambodia ....

And it´s not only the system of medicine, also the political system (f.e. if you are victim of criminals or otherwise are confrontaded with police and judicial system: It´s not like back home: With the criteria we use back home, the police and the person working in the judical system in these countries are acting like the worst criminals in our countries ... even worse ! f.e corruption in Cambodia is not kind of percentage - it´s 100 % ! If you don´t pay your judge, there is no (!) chance for you.

[Indochine]

deleted.

Edited May 18, 2009 by Indochine

[Kaoboi Bebobp]

A great discussion and exchange of info. Most people who have direct experience are very critical of Lao medical practices, never mind availability of drugs and equipment. At the end of it, I feel I cannot trust Lao medical aid, except for small things. Even then, I don't know . . . Looks like you want to have a good store of antibiotics and other meds in your own Lao home or carried with you in your car/motorbike and marry a western-trained nurse! ;-) Alternatively, live in Vientiane or very near the Thai border.

Thanks everyone for the very detailed reviews!