Degree Documents

[bubbles46]

Hi

Please don't give me a hard time on this I really need some serious advice. I started working for an International school at the end of March it is my first job here in thailand as I only arrived late February. Well when I went for the interview for the post the school informed me that they needed my original documents as they needed them for my visa and work permit.

Well the state of play is last week I just got my tourist visa upgraded to a 90 day non B and I am just waiting on my work permit I have given them all the documentation they require medical certs incl I even had to get a syphillis test yesterday as seemingly this is a new stipulation from the MOE. Now I have asked the school constantly for my documents back and they make excuse after excuse for not giving me them. Now as I am new here I am not sure what the situation is regarding who else needs to see my original documents. Anyone I have spoken to have said that they don't need them and I should get them back, however that is the problem how do I go about getting them back I have asked and asked but its excuse after excuse so do I go in all guns blazing and say right those documents are my property and I want them back etc. I just need to know for sure that they are no longer needed by them for any purpose.

Also (sorry to drag this out) the school also wont give us all new teachers at the school a signed copy of our contract this is also another string of endless excuses the latest being that we wont get them until we get our work permits however we are about to start main school on Monday and they seem to be taking advantage of us adding more and more onto our duty list for example wanting us to clean the school today before it opens on Monday but we can't refer to our contracts as we don't have them and we cant remember whats on them.

I don't like the school and I am currently looking for a new post hence the urgency to get my documents back.

I really could do with some good advice on how to handle this situation

[PeaceBlondie]

Yes, serious answer; I bet this is not a real international school. More likely, a poorly run private Thai school. Most of them, as you describe it, are hopelessly mismanaged.

[Loaded]

Speculation but maybe they are holding your certificates to prevent you moving on. maybe the contracts are waiting for the director to find them at the bottom of his/her in tray. Nobody is going to remind him/her that they are there. Or, they don't want you to sign until they've seen you in action. Normally this is called a probationary period but Thai directors often have funny ideas.

If you want your docs back and don't mind burning bridges, the police are probably the only strategy you have to pressure them. The certificates are your property and the school is holding them without permission now. But be prepared for the school to be nasty and 'lose' them permanently.

Edited May 16, 2009 by Loaded

[aussiestyle1983]

Never let original docs out of your sight when potential employers want to see them in LOS. The school I worked for, at the interview stage, asked me to leave my passport with them so they could make a copy. I allready had copies and said 'no. here you go. here is a copy'. I said they could check if the copy was real in front of me, and then, and only then, if problems came about for some reason later on, just dirrect whoever had the problem to me and I would show them.

If I finish my degree, and, if I return to teach on day in LOS, I will do the same with my degree. I will make copies before I go to a school. But, I would never leave it with the school.

Maybe you will never see your degree again? Better call the uni you graduated from and ask for a new one to be mailed to you... just in case...

[Phatcharanan]

It may have "International" in it's name but it sounds like one of the many "Mickey Mouse" Thai schools.

You could perhaps say that you need your documents for a couple of days because you are going to enroll on a Masters course at a local Uni and they require sight of your originals.

[SgtPepper]

I am really sorry for your plight re your original documents and I hope everything works out well for you in the end, But what's this about testing for SYPHILLIS!!!!! Were you given any reason why you had to submit to this test.

Edited May 17, 2009 by SgtPepper

[bubbles46]

I am really sorry for your plight re your original documents and I hope everything works out well for you in the end, But what's this about testing for SYPHILLIS!!!!! Were you given any reason why you had to submit to this test.

Yes seemingly this is a new thing the MOE have brought out recently that all new teachers now have to have a Syphilis test and I have checked it out from a few other sources and seemingly this is definitely the case at a cost of 430 baht.

[bubbles46]

It may have "International" in it's name but it sounds like one of the many "Mickey Mouse" Thai schools.

You could perhaps say that you need your documents for a couple of days because you are going to enroll on a Masters course at a local Uni and they require sight of your originals.

I tried that tactic today and I was duly informed by the administrator that she needs to contact the owner of the school and ask his permission and had I not been informed by him that he keeps the documents for the duration of my contract (which of course is a crock) so I told her that I need them before the end of play 2 moro to send them of so we shall see what occurs tomorrow. The school is really badly run resources are so bad and what they expect from the English teachers goes from the sublime to the ridiculous so I really need to get out of it.

[Phatcharanan]

It may have "International" in it's name but it sounds like one of the many "Mickey Mouse" Thai schools.

You could perhaps say that you need your documents for a couple of days because you are going to enroll on a Masters course at a local Uni and they require sight of your originals.

I tried that tactic today and I was duly informed by the administrator that she needs to contact the owner of the school and ask his permission and had I not been informed by him that he keeps the documents for the duration of my contract (which of course is a crock) so I told her that I need them before the end of play 2 moro to send them of so we shall see what occurs tomorrow. The school is really badly run resources are so bad and what they expect from the English teachers goes from the sublime to the ridiculous so I really need to get out of it.

Good luck.

[CosmicSurfer]

I've been teaching here for 8 Years, and have NEVER heard of a school pulling this scam... That's probably why they hired a newbie.

What can I say.. tell them you're calling the cops.. get your Docs back.. and get a new job.

This place is trouble.

Get out before you're in too deep!!!!

CS

Edited May 20, 2009 by CosmicSurfer

[bungy007]

It may have "International" in it's name but it sounds like one of the many "Mickey Mouse" Thai schools.

You could perhaps say that you need your documents for a couple of days because you are going to enroll on a Masters course at a local Uni and they require sight of your originals.

I tried that tactic today and I was duly informed by the administrator that she needs to contact the owner of the school and ask his permission and had I not been informed by him that he keeps the documents for the duration of my contract (which of course is a crock) so I told her that I need them before the end of play 2 moro to send them of so we shall see what occurs tomorrow. The school is really badly run resources are so bad and what they expect from the English teachers goes from the sublime to the ridiculous so I really need to get out of it.

Yes they are holding you to ransom over your documents. The thing is you mustn't go in guns blazing as Thais just use that to excuse their own poor behaviour and to put the 'bad' (Americanism) back on to you. What's more they will all band together over this course of action and you will just be stonewalled.

Best is to wear them down with compassion. It's compassion that is the driving force behind any change of heart by Asians, including Thais. Go back to them and say you need your documents for your Masters and just keep on hounding them even if it means camping outside their doors and entering their office every ten mins or so until you get your respectfully asked for way. If they give you the director has them line then go to his office but if you can get the head of your department on your side maybe words can be said and whispers made to solve this problem. Give them the impression that you like the place and would like to stay and thus they would benefit from keeping you happy on this.

good luck but as already stated it's best to apply for a copy from your uni. Yes you will have to pay for it but take a couple or three days hols (say you're sick) further down the line to get a free paid holiday to cover your costs. Rule number one - there's always a victim. Rule number two - don't be it!

[Texpat]

Take something that belongs to the school. Like the locks to the front door or all the chalk and erasers.

Tell them they'll be returned when you get your personal documents back. Also, print out a copy of this thread and show it to all administrators and director of the school. Tell them you don't appreciate being jerked around.

Edited May 24, 2009 by Texpat

[Phatcharanan]

Take something that belongs to the school. Like the locks to the front door or all the chalk and erasers.

Tell them they'll be returned when you get your personal documents back. Also, print out a copy of this thread and show it to all administrators and director of the school. Tell them you don't appreciate being jerked around.

[Jungian]

Never let original documents out of your sight period! I always show the originals for inspection and verification however I would never turn an original transcript over to anyone, if they would like a copy of my original transcripts my universities are willing and happy to provide them at the low cost of $45 per set. Also I have been working for a government university for 6 years now and the only psychical they have ever required was a general health document every year stating I am not going to die while teaching which is actually the same in the USA where I worked we were required a general psychical every six months, drug and alcohol test. I agree with Loaded at this point I would get the police involved and burn that bridge.

[aussiebebe]

I'm sorry to hear about the situation faced by the OP, I hope things work themselves out as it can't be a nice situation to get stuck in. To the OP, my advice is that your school really does need your original documents in order to get you a teacher license; then work permit and visa, so don't be too hasty! You've only worked there since March. If you decide not to stay, then all your other options will leave you out of pocket. Firstly, forget about your contract; unless you've learnt Thai in two months I'm guessing that you signed a contract written in English, in which case it's not legally worth the paper it's written on. In principle, you have an agreement with the school to be remunerated for teaching, so you can refuse to clean or perform any of the additional duties – simple as that.If I ever found myself in your position here's what I think I'd do; forget trying to involve Police or lawyers; phone up the Student Records and Admissions Department of your University or Teacher-training course provider and pay for new copies of your documents (using a credit card) to be posted to your address in Thailand, 1^st class. It will take 4-5 days, whichever country you're from. During this time, you can go job-hunting using copies of your documents and inform your present school that you won't work for them until they return your documents to you, their rightful owner. If they do, then okay you'll have two copies of your documents and you can decide, without feeling pressured, how you want to proceed; consider it a lesson learnt. I've never found myself in such a situation so I'm interested how things pan out for you, do keep us updated. Good luck.

Edited May 27, 2009 by aussiebebe

[haltes]

I'm guessing that you signed a contract written in English, in which case it's not legally worth the paper it's written on.

This is just not true, I work for a Thai company and all contracts with Expats and other foreign companies are in English and they are just as valid as any contract in Thai. What is true is that where there are two contracts, one in English and one in Thai, the Thai one will take precedence.

[aussiebebe]

QUOTE (aussiebebe @ 2009-05-27 12:46:20) I'm guessing that you signed a contract written in English, in which case it's not legally worth the paper it's written on.

This is just not true, I work for a Thai company and all contracts with Expats and other foreign companies are in English and they are just as valid as any contract in Thai. What is true is that where there are two contracts, one in English and one in Thai, the Thai one will take precedence.

I didn't know that, thanks for setting me straight. I been working in Bangkok for three years and I really believed that English contracts had no legal standing, I never been so happy to have been proved wrong about something!

Cheers