Australian Women Arrested In Phuket Over Bar Mat

[pontius]

I just read the OP and immediately jumped to the last post.

Fun aside, this problem is not new. We Westerners sometimes come with that "I'm better than you" attitude and are surprised that it doesn't work too well around here. Staying polite, humble and respectful normally helps, even though it's bloody hard sometimes.

It's the good ole insults / losing face combo that created this one.

[Roachiebkk]

I do believe "shakedown" is the appropriate word in this situation. 20,000 baht and she would have walked free. Now it's going to cost her a lot more to stay here for the court proceedings and end up with a measly 500 baht fine and deportation.

These types of actions by police against tourists have enormous potential for disrupting people's lives in their home countries. Perhaps she will loose her job, maybe her home. Who will take care of her children while she's stuck in Thailand ?

Sad that those involved have no idea of how much harm is being done to Thailand and to the victim's lives by episodes such as this. Those responsible for cleaning up corruption in Thailand are either powerless or couldn't care less.

Hmmm, 1000 baht or even 500 baht would be the norm. I'd say she or they must have gone completely troppo for it to be taken this far. Did they yell, scream or attack the cops? Anybody here witness the event? I'm not saying the tourists involved did anything completely overboard but seems like a harsh over reaction by the cops if its come to this. Poor girl, they should just let her go. Crazy. Oh well 8 years here in Thailand representing an international travel mob seems like there wont be much need soon.

[MartinBKK]

If i was in a bar in Thailand and approached by someone in civilian clothes claiming to be police i also would likely ignore them and walk away. I have visited these tourists spots and there is always someone pestering you for something claiming to be someone they are not. Would you get out your ID and give information to a Thai man in a farang bar? If you were a woman would you follow him outside whilst he claims to take you to the police station? Would you really? No, you wouldn't and rightly so.

I think it would be quite sensible to walk away as it seems the lady did in this case. How this has been turned into "resisting arrest" im not quite sure. From all reports the lady at NO time became violent, but she did get angry and perhaps said some things in the heat of the moment (after consuming alcohol). This was a middle aged mother having a good night out - it's quite embarassing imho.

[VSteve]

So Thailand is a place where you will be thrown into a filthy, small jail cell with 3 others if you so much as take a bar towel from a bar?

I though Singapore was bad. Time to visit somewhere else.

This story is really gathering a very high profile in Australia, The Australian Prime Minister has now publicly denounced the Thai justice system and vowed to do everything possible to secure her immediate release.

The radio talk back stations have been swamped by callers telling of their experiences with rip offs and corruption in Thailand.

So many people with negative stories on Thailand coming to the public's attention will see a dramatic drop of in Aussies holidaying in Thailand and Phuket in particular (the new Bali for Australians).

I have never heard so much negativity from tourists from any country regarding Thailand.

It will be most interesting to see the reaction from the Thai Authorities given the comments from the Farang Australian Prime Minister, I doubt they will be prepared to lose face over this matter, even although it is just a small towel placed on the bar to soak up the spillage.

That one story has already touched so many people. Thailand needs more tourists, this is not going to help at all.

[Kan Win]

What would a tourist nick a bar mat for?

He says bar employees told him police saw Smoel's friends roll up the bar mat and place it in a bag. He says when police confronted Smoel 'she did a runner'.

<snip>

Wood says he has been told the Patong Police Chief was in the station when police brought Smoel in and he has been told she 'verbally abused him'.

Wood says bar patrons try to steal the mats 'all the time'. He says bar staff usually catch would-be thieves and 'talk' to them about the attempted theft.

In Smoel's situation, he says it's different because police saw the act. He adds the mats are for sale in the pub. They sell for $60.

So lets hear it not from her mouth huh !!!

Sounds like she got pissed at the Bibs, they lost face, and now she's looking at serious time due to loss of face.  

$60 for a bar mat?  Is it made out of carbon fiber? 

A Bar Towel I think if it is one like this. 'Made in Australia' so I have read hence the 60 Aussie $ tag price.

Kan Win

[Sunedk]

Here we go Thailand!

Thai authorities really know how to get back tourists to Thailand.

Wake up! TAT - are you sleeping? TAT - YOU need to wake up now, as it seems like the Thai government is still not able to take action against anything that could harm Thailand's reputation abroad.

[ozzydom]

An interview with the owner of the Aussie Bar was shown on Australia Network this evening, All Steve Woods had to say was that the lady stole and now must pay the consequences.

Mr Woods uncompassionate attitude towards a fellow Aussie is very strange,the beer mat probably cost a whole 100 baht tops .

There must be more to this story than a simple case of night time stealing , having her passport removed and having to sit out up to 17 weeks in Thailand just to get a court appearance seems a bit of an overkill for such a petty offense .

I hope you are feeling pretty good about your failing to nip this stupidity in the bud Mr Wood.

[allyoops]

we all know that people on holiday ,both male and female ,can do stupid things and say things they shouldn't when drunk.the bar mat thing whoever did it ,it was a stupid thing to do .being rude and/or abusive to the police is asking for trouble (the losing face thing) ,a stupid thing to say .i hope everyone who hears about it ,and that will be most people ,will learn the lesson and take more care and have some respect.

having said that ,the whole thing has gone way over the top.to confiscate her passport and keep her there for weeks till the court hearing is just ridiculous and someone in authority needs to step in and get this sorted out.imagine in a few weeks time she goes to court and gets a slap on the wrist after all this .thailand will be looking really stupid then.they couldn't put her in prison for years for a beermat theft or prank .surely a night in the cells ,a strict talking to the next morning and maybe a spot fine for the abuse would have had it sorted.

[OZEMADE]

Let the travel advisory's start flying. This is an outrageous injustice and Thailand will pay a heavy price in Tourist revenue for this.

What a load of rubbish, she knocked it off and will now pay the consequences. This incident will not effect Thailands tourism any more than it already is.

[grandpops]

Here we go Thailand!

Thai authorities really know how to get back tourists to Thailand.

Wake up! TAT - are you sleeping? TAT - YOU need to wake up now, as it seems like the Thai government is still not able to take action against anything that could harm Thailand's reputation abroad.

Most people think it a good thing to stamp out this mindless pilfering and abuse of officials. Those who don't are welcome to holiday elsewhere in the world. Spain seem to be more happy to host thousands of drunken louts.

Most Thais are happy to leave there belongings overnight out in the street as stealing is a big no no here. No bearded social workers turning the victim into the criminal, no brash MS's howling about the whole thing being a male conspiracy. She stole, she was rude. Shouldn't have been!

Phuket gets by nicely with little in the way of drunken holiganism.

[Superted187]

Every man and his dog knows that this is a case where discretion should have been used.

[Superted187]

And to come back - having read the article in the Phuket Gazette (http://www.phuketgazette.net/news/index.asp?id=7380) one section has really stood out. This is a quote from the Owner of the Bar:

"When they took her back to the police station, she continued to abuse everyone at the police station including the chief of police and I think this is what the problem is."

How the hel_l would the owner of the Bar know this?!?

[jboras]

I think you will find that a Aussie chap owns the bar, he looks like David Boone or Merv Hughes with his handlebar moustache.

He needs to step in and not press charges.

Even that may not work!

Similar situation in Chiang Mai a few years ago with a German friend visiting. Had his passport held by police. Threatened with 3 years jail. It took us 3 weeks of hard bargaining but we got his passport back after paying the police 50,000 baht, no receipts, no records, no charges.... We all watcehd as 3 of them shared the money! 30,000 for the chief and 10,000 each to the junior police.

My friend has vowed never to come back to Thaialnd.

Never has to this day 8 years now...

Advice to visitors, don't get mixed up with police, even for the slightest of matters. Generally the law is how the police interpret it themselves in Thailand and there are as many version of the law as there are police. Don't mess with them. It's expensive to get away... They have the guns and cells. Laws as we know them in Australia and civil rights ... just don't exist in Thailand! The police are poor fellows, they have to even BUY their own uniforms, bikes, petrol and bullets... They can't do that with 9,000 baht monthly salary! So their supplement their income from Thais mostly, drunk drivers, unhelmeted bike riders, speeding (you try tell them otherwise) drivers and the good cash crop of foreign visitors threatened with jail until they pay!

Enjoy your visits to Thailand and stay away from the wrong arm of the law!

[Oberkommando]

This incident will not effect Thailands tourism any more than it already is.

Headline news in Australia, it most certainly will have a damaging effect.

Even though it seems to be hiding here in the Phuket local news forum with hundreds viewing and 14 pages of posts...

All over a $60 beer mat.

The Thais still have a lot to learn.

[vedantafx]

I do believe "shakedown" is the appropriate word in this situation. 20,000 baht and she would have walked free. Now it's going to cost her a lot more to stay here for the court proceedings and end up with a measly 500 baht fine and deportation.

Corruption pure and simple.

I just asked my Thai wife what would happen if a Thai person was caught for the same offence.

Just a small fine was her response.

Yeah and who thinks that a smart head couldnt have dropped 5 or 10k on a 'fine' and walked if handled right.. Whose betting loud mouth drunk ozzie women giving it the 'you cant do that to me' attitude that comes out when they are on Bangla (or Bali ??)..

Dont forget in her own words (radio interview) they told her to stop, she gave them the bag, then tried to do a runner down the stairs and out into the street.. You do a runner from Thai cops and your going to be in the shit list straight away.. Act like a &lt;deleted&gt; and pay the price basically.

I have a kind of fear of the Thai police, hopefully in a healthy way. I was in Bangkok police station one night at at 5.30am in the morning. Taxi driver left me off at the Klong Toey station in what seemed like a dody area. I was drunk, for sure. I wouldnt wake up and couldnt tell the taxi driver whre I lived....yes I know what a terrible state to be in, but I had lot going on at the time. I remember he left me off at the police station, or at least when I came round I was in the police station. The battery had died on my phone, and they wouldnt let me go until I could contact someone to come and get me. I was having a laugh with them, they made me a cup of tea, and we went out the front of the station and had a smoke, and I was thanking them and saying I would bring my guitar back and give them some lessons as a couple were taking up guitar. It was all good gest, and they seemed quite light hearted about it all. Eventually got a charger for my phone, called a friend, and someone came and picked me up. I was really friendly towards them. I knew it was a little dodgy being in this situation, but instead of reacting defensive, I just treated them like everyday budies, and said sorry, I m being an arse, I know I m drunk, blah blah, and asked them about their life and they seemed to warm to me, got a cup of tea, they became quite curious and were talking away like civil human beings for an hour. It was all quite surreal.

My point is this. If i had went in all defensive and high and mighty, swearing, acting agressive, like some farnangs act in Thailand, I m sure I would have ended up with a bamboo massage and possibly worse, and they I wouldnt have seen the more decent side that I m sure many Thai police have, as was the case with these guys anyway. It is like anything in life. It is how you react and the attitude you carry around that attracts situations which will either be beneficial or not to you. I reckon I acted this way out of fear and respect.

Edited May 19, 2009 by vedantafx

[OZEMADE]

An interview with the owner of the Aussie Bar was shown on Australia Network this evening, All Steve Woods had to say was that the lady stole and now must pay the consequences.

Mr Woods uncompassionate attitude towards a fellow Aussie is very strange,the beer mat probably cost a whole 100 baht tops .

There must be more to this story than a simple case of night time stealing , having her passport removed and having to sit out up to 17 weeks in Thailand just to get a court appearance seems a bit of an overkill for such a petty offense .

I hope you are feeling pretty good about your failing to nip this stupidity in the bud Mr Wood.

Obviously you dont know the people who own the bar and you dont know the bar.

Both the owners are Australian and do nothing but help people when ever they can, they are both well mannered and courteous. They employ a lot of Thai staff.

It is the biggest bar in Bangla Road if not the biggest in Phuket and is usually crowded by visitors from all over the world.

As far as stealing goes I would find it hard to believe that it was not picked up on one of the 50 security cameras that make a recording of all incidents, these cameras are placed all over the upper and lower floors and bars. It was probably the security supervisor that contacted the police via 2 way radio or phone.

The woman stole the bar mat (THEFT), she was apprehended by police (ARRESTED) she abused the police and she ran away from the police (ESCAPE CUSTODY) I think she is lucky she has only been charged with (THEFT)

Nothing will change at the Aussie Bar and as for the dip stick that thinks it will or that it will even change tourism, you havent got a clue about life.

Edited May 19, 2009 by OZEMADE

[Dakhar]

Schapelle Corby comes to mind.

We have the husband and the woman saying she is innocent, well they would, wouldn't they!

Until all the evidence is tested in court, all of this discussion is academic.

Even if she is guilty of stealing a towel.... do you really thing the punishment fits the crime?

I just had 300 baht stolen out of our vending machine, and it cost me 1000 baht to repair damages. So I am out 1300 baht, do I think the person should get 2-5 years for a "night time theft?"

No I don't, a fine is OK with me.

My family business has had employees still around 500K and no one ever went to jail, and I imagine we lose 1million a year due to theft.... no one has yet to go to jail....

Read this thread makes me nervous to use the condiment rack at a restaraunt.

Mr. Wood I make this vow to you..... I will never go to your bar.

Edited May 19, 2009 by LivinginKata

[cookyboy]

Do you have a source for this piece of news?

Please post the link and the name of the source, thank you.

moved to General

there is also this story from the owner

3AW Breakfast spoke to the owner of Phuket's Aussie Bar before he boarded a plane to Bangkok this morning.

Australian Steve Wood says: "I think she just rubbed the wrong people the wrong way,” when asked what happened the night police arrested Annice Smoel.

Wood says he wasn't at the bar when police arrested Smoel.

He says bar employees told him police saw Smoel's friends roll up the bar mat and place it in a bag. He says when police confronted Smoel 'she did a runner'.

Police later caught up with Smoel on the beach and walked the Montrose woman to the Patong Police station near the Aussie Bar.

Wood says he has been told the Patong Police Chief was in the station when police brought Smoel in and he has been told she 'verbally abused him'.

Wood says bar patrons try to steal the mats 'all the time'. He says bar staff usually catch would-be thieves and 'talk' to them about the attempted theft.

In Smoel's situation, he says it's different because police saw the act. He adds the mats are for sale in the pub. They sell for $60.

[hippyted]

He says bar employees told him police saw Smoel's friends roll up the bar mat and place it in a bag. He says when police confronted Smoel 'she did a runner'.

So is the charge theft or what?

If the police actually saw the friend roll up the mat and put it in her bag, then they know that she is not guilty.

I don't know this bar, but assuming that it is a Farang tourist spot, would undercover Thai police go in? Most tourist bars that I know, Thai men customers would stick out like a sore thumb.

yea i think she must of given a load of mouth, aggrevated the situation,, it does sound harsh otherwise!!!!

[Igor]

It would seem a tourist town would be used to such petty theft and have a system for citing and fining offenders. A friend from Melbourne called me this afternoon and asked me if I wasn't worried something like this might happen to me?

[zemoo]

Where to start with this?

Steal a bar mat/towel/glass/whatever - isn't that something you do as a teenager to prove how brave/cool you are or to show that you can get in under-age and have a drink? "Prank" - oh you mean petty crime (ie. theft)? - grow up! If her friends really did this without her consent and she was not in any way party to it(and I doubt it - between them she probably had the only bag that was capable of concealing the mat/towel/thing. Whatever their story, more than likely they thought they'd be able to get away with it, if caught, by claiming her innocence.) then I doubt they're friends anymore. The value of the stolen item is irrelevant here, stealing is stealing and if you mouth off to police officers/security then run away or try to bribe them in a foreign country then you deserve to suffer the long arm of the law (regardless of how draconian it may seem - laws are there for a reason and you're the guest in their country). If the Thai police accept bribes they're slated as corrupt and immoral so perhaps they're trying to do the right thing here and actually enforce the Law. And do you really think the local police care what the foreign media is saying? People will continue to come and party in Thailand and Phuket regardless of the risks and bad press - why? - because they know they can't do this back home. Just be greatful this place even exisits and have some respect and common sense (don't go looking for trouble).

Who cares about what was taken or what the official charge is (that's just paper work), teach her a lesson and make an example of her! I don't care what country she is from, if a "mature" (not!) woman (or her friends) is in to pinching things it tells me everything I need to know. Shame on her/them!

PS. I've been living in Thailand a couple of years now and I've never had any trouble whatsoever from police or security. Most I get is Sawat ddi krap, a nod of the head or a salute. Just mind your own business ( but don't try to run a business , stay out of trouble, treat people with respect and obey the laws (no brainer!).

[ozzydom]

She might have hit a raw nerve while giving the head cop a gob full, sometimes the truth hurts.

The truth remains that she is still only charged with night time stealing of an alleged $60 item, hardly a capitol crime, so it seems that the Bib are set on showing her who is in control in Thailand .

Just remember how many Thais were able to flee Thailand following murder charges because their passports were not confiscated, a bit hypocritical dont you think.

I feel that this has more to do with teaching foreigners who is boss here than upholding the law.

[LivinLOS]

For those of you who couldn't read the Stat Dec:

They did not leave the bar with the mat nor did they intend to. It was a joke and they apologised and explained it to the police. After an ok from the police to leave, the bar staff stopped her and she was then arrested.

If this is true it does indeed reflect very badly on the Aussi bar. Not only were they indeed responsible for the arrest of the woman, but later Steve denied this and tried to blame it on misbehaviour on her side. On top of that the policemen were most likely hired and paid by him and thus should have escalated the whole thing in a satisfactory manner for the customers. But many Farang scum bar owners tend to adopt the Thai way of dealing with such things: try to get the max out of a situation like this and deny any wrong-doing, counting on too little bad publicity compared to his personal gain. Like I said all based on the assumption that this declaration is indeed true.

Yes of course thier version of it, once out of the country, is bound to be the absolute truth..

Oh they told me I could go.. Thats why I left my bag and ran down the stairs and out to the beach !!

[cookiesunshinex]

As far as bar mats, the rubber ones that drinks are poured on to prevent spillage from messing up the bar....they are usually given to the bar by their supplier, such as Red Bull, Absolut Vodka, Jack Daniels, etc. etc.

I'm not sure if that's the case in this situation, but any bar that you go into has been given the rubber kind for free as the advertisers want to advertise their product and it's one less thing that the bar doesn't have to purchase.

It doesn't make it any more right, but just throwing that out there.

Edited May 19, 2009 by cookiesunshinex

[loong]

For those of you who couldn't read the Stat Dec:

They did not leave the bar with the mat nor did they intend to. It was a joke and they apologised and explained it to the police. After an ok from the police to leave, the bar staff stopped her and she was then arrested.

If this is true it does indeed reflect very badly on the Aussi bar. Not only were they indeed responsible for the arrest of the woman, but later Steve denied this and tried to blame it on misbehaviour on her side. On top of that the policemen were most likely hired and paid by him and thus should have escalated the whole thing in a satisfactory manner for the customers. But many Farang scum bar owners tend to adopt the Thai way of dealing with such things: try to get the max out of a situation like this and deny any wrong-doing, counting on too little bad publicity compared to his personal gain. Like I said all based on the assumption that this declaration is indeed true.

Yes of course thier version of it, once out of the country, is bound to be the absolute truth..

Oh they told me I could go.. Thats why I left my bag and ran down the stairs and out to the beach !!

As I have yet to see any statement from the police or anybody else involved except the Australian women, there has been nothing to say that this is not the truth.

Anything else is either hearsay or a hunch by people with absolutely no knowledge of the facts.

Whatever the facts are this was the theft of a bar towel, apparently by a person other than the accused and if she got frustrated , scared and angry and mouthed off, 2 or 4 days locked up should be considered enough by any reasonable person.

[dbrenn]

I wonder what really happened.

[LivinLOS]

I'm sorry, but I find many of attitudes on here puzzling. IMO, it is all just more Thai-bashing from Westerners who feel that all of Thailand should bow and scrape to them.

The woman in question ran from the police during questioning, resisted arrest, and then verbally abused the chief-of-police. In the USA, where I am from, any of these crimes carry serious charges. But in Thailand, where the Westerner is to be worshipped at all cost because all Thais should be whores to the tourist dollar (regardless of their station), the Thais are awful for detaining her while they decide how to handle this case and what charges to press.

In the end, it will probably be a small fine and no jail time just as with the Burroughs case (and in his case he abused and threatened airport security and immigration personnel which would also be a big crime in the US). That is not a big punishment to pay considering the circumstances. The woman from Australia is the one who made a petty problem very serious by her actions. Consider in your home country what would happen if you fled the police, resisted arrest, and verbally abused the cheif-of-police. But in Thailand, tourists should be able to do whatever it is they want according to the reasoning of some.

I DO agree that Thailand has endemic problems with police corruption, and criminal justice can be a twisted thing in LOS. However, in this case, I think the Thai authorities are within their rights. What must the Thais think when they are asked to excuse serious crimes for the sake of sucking up to tourists (and, no, I am not talking about a stolen bar mat)? It perputuates the sterotype many Thais have that all Westerners think Thailand and its people should excuse any behaviour and any crime from tourists and Westerners to save face with Westerners and their media.

Many of us know the worst thing one can ever do in Thailand, especially with authorities, is to raise one's voice, especially if verbal abuse is involved. This is NOT a case about a bar prank or a missing bar mat, and it must infuriate Thais that Westerners and their media want to paint it as such. Now the woman and the media are trying to insult the Thais and the Thai authorites involved by conducting a media campaign that makes Thailand look bad for holding someone in such a case (fleeing a police investigation, abuse of police staff). That is not a winning move on her part as she is now just fanning the flames, making a bad situation worse, and hardening the attitudes of the Thai authorities involved.

And had this happened in a Western country to a Thai person (and Thais who travel to other countries would probably never behave in such a manner) that fled police when being questioned and verbally abused the police and their cheif, would all of us be in an uproar? The woman (and any of us) need to learn that one must respect the laws, the authorities, and the customs in ANY country in which we choose to travel, and that being a Western tourist in a devloping country dependent in part upon tourism and tourist money does not give us the freedom to act in whatever manner we like and to break any laws we wish.

JMHO, and presented as another opinion in the face of all the rampant Thailand-bashing in this thread and the "another-nail-in-the-coffin" crowd who frequent the TV forum.

Sorry pete! So many people in the forum seem to be incapable of reading. The Charge is night time theft. It is not abusing any of the many people referred to or resisting arrest. If the charge is abuse, or running away for the polece (resisting arrest) please have the police make appropriate charge. If on the other hand it is just that the police didn't like her attitude that's another matter. I don't believe that the law requires that anyone make the police like them. My suspicion is that the abuse that is be bantered so much and is much more the thin skinned police and not a legal problem.

Doesn't matter what it says on the paper.. Its about the reality...

And as to the 'charge' they have 48 days to decide what to formally charge her with.. Whose to say resisting arrest and being 'rude' to an officer dont land on the card too.. be careful what you wish for.

[regfrancis]

I feel sorry for the Thais, they are not the worlds smartest politicly. The Aussie girls have set a trap and the Thais got caught in it. The Aussies will now stay home in droves and spend there money at home..thanks to the Aussie girls showing how dim whitted the thais can be.

[elcent]

Now still no news about yesterday's court hearing. It's getting stranger by the hour.

[GungaDin]

I feel sorry for the Thais, they are not the worlds smartest politicly. The Aussie girls have set a trap and the Thais got caught in it. The Aussies will now stay home in droves and spend there money at home..thanks to the Aussie girls showing how dim whitted the thais can be.

Be careful of what you say.

The Defender of The Realm might delete your comments as they might be construed as anti-Thai.