Any point in coming to thailand ?

[Khun ?]

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[Khun ?]

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[Khun ?]

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[Butterfly]

With 3% (best case)

Anyone that cant get a better than 3% per annum really isn't trying very hard or isn't too bright.

Someone who claim they can get more than 3% easily are talking out their ass and are clueless. I have a bar to sell for them and it can make more than 3% annually for sure

You do not know <deleted> about bonds either. depending what bond you buy you will get the price of face value and any interest % as stated with the bond, normaly quarterly or semi-annual dividen payment and at maturity as long as the company or government does not go broke (bankruptcy) you get your face value of the bond $25 or $100 ....... Bonds do move up and down with the markets but does not effect someone who holds to maturity. remember Sherlock we are buying for present income and not trading like a stock which you can also do.  

 http://finance.yahoo.com/q/hp?s=AOF&a=08&b=22&c=1988&d=08&e=24&f=2003&g=m

  Ok on this one example the fund opened  in 1988

You are exactly proving my point. You are an idiot investor using past dividends and advertised yields to make his investment move. Again I have a bar to sell, are you interested ? you are the perfect sucker for me.

Thanks for playing. I am not impressed by your investment skills and I bet you still own Yahoo when you bought it at $300 a few years ago.  

[Butterfly]

I bet you are one of the ones that have visa problems. I probably invest more in a month than you make in a year. Have you ever heard of ( NAV ) Just click on the links below.

Sure. and I am Bill Gates.

You obviously have never invested yourself or did any serious audit of your portfolio or portfolio strategy. Your broker must love you since you keep refering to him. Try buying bonds at face value. I think you never heard of IRR and "actual" yield or duration. All these parameters are needed to calculate your true return. A coupon of 5% does NOT yield 5% on your investment. Do you actually understand this or should I draw a graph ?

Oh boy... those day traders know so much, it must be the reasons why they all went bankrupt after a few trades.

So explain me again your bond strategy so I can have a good laugh ?  

[Butterfly]

It's funny you mentioned closed end funds, since I run an investment pool with this strategy only. So I have very good experience with closed end funds and the problem of NAV and the reporting of NAV.

When the fund went back up in price the dividen was raised

again to maintain % dividen payment. The best advise anyone can give you is get a broker.

You can't be serious, right ? this alone proves your inability to understand that very particular investment strategy. They can't raise the dividends without the underlying stocks raising the dividends. Do you actually understand how such a fund work ? the regulations and the commitee aprovals ? the only way for them to increase the dividends without underlaying stocks paying more dividends is by doing an extraordinaire payment using existing cash (basically redemption money) and have a vote on this by the shareholders or the commitee. Usually this is done when the price of a fund is so depressed that it's the only way to "build demand" for it by increasing its dividend yield and thus attracting more investors. When a fund is too successful (price > nav), they don't need to raise the dividends even further. The market forces are the reasons why the dividend yield went down as the market becomes more "efficient" and removes those "excess" returns (dividend yield above average in given class of stock or above TBill current)

Again mentioning your broker (paid on commission for transactions, NOT recommendations) show how naive and inexperienced you are. This is too funny.

The remaining of your "predictions" is so stupid, I won't even comment on it. Ask a 5 year old to do it for you, maybe he has a better understanding than you do.

[Khun ?]

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[Butterfly]

These funds have held their value for 15 years and paid a good 8% to 10% diveden for many years using leverage for stability.

The % is only based on what each persons buy price was so their is a bit of varible but not as much as you stated. You cannot pay out what has not been paid in so why even mention something that could just as well be incorrect as they are paying out what was earned previous. Since most are looking for steady % there will be good years and bad years for profits on funds but payouts will stay consitent and

that is the bottom line.

Unbelievable. Do you actually understand how an income fund works and the risk associated with them. Let me tell a story:

I have bought in the past a number if these funds with track records of 10/15 years. Sure they were paying at the time my 12% yield, but their strong variation in prices and the fact you could never get the "advertised" prices on which yield were advertised, made them VERY risky investment. One day after getting all those nice dividends, NAV (open end funds have price = nav) crashed by 50% in a single quarter. All those good returns of 12% per year gone in a single quarter ? why ? because they were leveraged and playing god with some derivatives just to boost an extra 2% or 4% above current Tbill. But of course the idiot investor does not know that and since it says "income fund" on the brochure, it means it must be safe then. Wrong. A lot of scary stories in the "income fund" market and if you see a "correction" in those funds (with 8% yield) and losing 50% of your capital in less than a single quarter, you will understand what I mean when I say that your investment did not yield more than 3%. Money does not grow on trees and there is no such thing as a free lunch. Those "income" funds are VERY risky because they use "junk bonds" and other "insecure" vehicles. They are not garantee to perform like this for ever and it is very likely that they will "correct" sooner or later. With such risk, I will rather invest in stocks where I can make 50% and take a lot of risk for it.

[Khun ?]

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[Khun ?]

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[pnustedt]

I know some of you are baffled.

No - bored!

[Khun ?]

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[Butterfly]

I also have  3 bonds that the broker gave me dicount on the issue price as the firm he works for was the underwriters.

And I bet you didn't pay it at the par price. If the coupon was higher than current yield, you probably pay a premium for it (or got a small discount on the premium price). Do you understand the rationality behind a bond calculation of a bond yield ? if you buy at a premium and get back the initial investment at par value, you actually make a "capital loss". Therefore your investment return is far less than the one stated by your broker :shaking head:

[Butterfly]

I can agree with this but the risk at some point in your life is not worth it and to hard to recover losses at some point without hard work again. Diversity and knowing markets when to get in and out is the name even in mutuals and ETF funds. This is why you must know the funds and managers you get into and I only stay into a fund that has a bit of growth potential to it.  Yes some of these funds may get into trouble with options and high yields but this is where you need to use a broker who can look at the way the fund has been managed or being managed and the sector. These funds have at times 10 to 15 % up swings which is a good time to take your years earnings at that point and decide what next. I have locked in more than 20% on some of these funds for the year on just a couple trades without the risk of an individual stock. (knowing what the market trend is for the funds holdings and sectors). I do not mind setting in a stable bond and put the profits to a growth stock or fund in another sector and get a few more %.

Thanks, you are proving my original point: it's not easy to get more than 3% these days if you want security despite what you and others claimed earlier.

What you are advocating here is a trading strategy using Mutual funds instead of stocks. Nothing wrong with that. But for someone living in the jungle who has no or little access to his broker or fund information, this is impossible for him to time the market and do a few successful trades. So if you are looking for a safe investment vehicule with a guarantee, no intervention, yield, your arguments and strategies does not hold a bit.

Btw, those swings can be much more than 15%, above all in uncertain times. So you got lucky by getting 20% from you trades in Mutual funds. I got lucky by getting 50% from my trades. I think I will take the risk and invest in stocks instead as those "income" funds are as risky as "stocks" when it comes to predictions. Also I don't agree with your argument that these funds NEVER go bankrupt. A number of ones I had were merged into new ones because of their poor performance and their historical past performance absorbed by the new fund. This is a trick that Mutual Funds like to do to remove the "losers" from the "winners". In the meantime, the poor investor get swap into a fund where his "loss" is realized by the swap as he gets fewer shares in the new fund. A total scam. But I guess you didn't know that so keep investing in them until you get burn. At least stocks are being followed and their news is published. Try to get accurate info from your mutual fund companies and brokers. Totally Useless.

[Butterfly]

I think I would come clean to the people in the pool that you must impress

(lose some face) and take on a expert brokerage firm. Not only would this give you added expert advice in several investment fields you may just be able to pick up some investments at a discount to pay the 1% fee, even if you only put half of the investment pool in the managed account.

Man, are you a joke ? Do you understand what brokers are for ? do you know what a brokerage company do ? go look it up in Google and then you can come back here with your "expertise"  

(hint: they are paid on commissions to lure suckers like you, their advice are shit and only motivated by the sales du jour)

[Khun ?]

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[Khun ?]

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[Butterfly]

I think I would come clean to the people in the pool that you must impress

(lose some face) and take on a expert brokerage firm. Not only would this give you added expert advice in several investment fields you may just be able to pick up some investments at a discount to pay the 1% fee, even if you only put half of the investment pool in the managed account.

Man, are you a joke ? Do you understand what brokers are for ? do you know what a brokerage company do ? go look it up in Google and then you can come back here with your "expertise"  

(hint: they are paid on commissions to lure suckers like you, their advice are shit and only motivated by the sales du jour)

When are you going to offer any advise on how these guys can live off 10 mil baht. You have come up with nothing other than how smart you are and brokers are scams. Not everyone has your ability to do it on their own. We can agree on one thing unless it comes from you it is useless. I would also venture to say that you have less abilities by far than a brokerage firm or fund managers have by default. Then of course one head is better than 10 making decisions on investments when it comes to you. You have nothing of value to the average investor. Your holyier than thou attitude

would of put you at the top of Enron. The only useful info you have given is to someone not interested in investing. I would suspect if your abilities were as great as you try to portray you would not be on the net talking such , you would be living it up in some multi billion $ empire under your beck and call.

Have a nice day Mr. Berkshire  

hahahaha !!! this is some funny rant from an "amateur" like you.

If only you knew who I was and what I do !!!! hahahahaha.

Have fun with your broker, you can have him all for yourself  

[Khun ?]

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[foolwholaughsatdeath]

guys, why don't you just whip em out and measure them and end this miserable pissing war?

[Khun ?]

guys, why don't you just whip em out and measure them and end this miserable pissing war?

Ah, I was having fun. It gave me something to do sitting around work. I got my nap in now and ready for the next 24 hours. Passengers do not normally fly the plane nor does one pilot fly all planes. Another #### unemployed anylst or broker I seen a few of them that ran scams and ran off with other peoples money Interpol still looking for them the last I heard. Doctors use to not like second opinions and you would not get a nurse to do major surgery.

http://www.annuityadvantage.com/eiabenefits.htm

http://www.annuityadvantage.com/cdsvsannuities.htm

[francois]

if you mean that Thailand is so addictiv that you can't leave,

for sure a lot get burned, ruined by the Thai life, but anyway won't have they done the same in another place addictiv for some other reason?

they all seem to take the same slope down.

if we talk about people who can throw away their life because of this or that, we have seen a lot of these guys hanging around, and we all know that most of them are alcoholics, am I

wrong?, this is not at all to look down on them, but often, I thought that Thais might prefer some other kind of customers.

hopefully this is a minority...

so burned or drawned ?