Military Service

[whitewolf329]

I am coming to thailand pretty soon. Mostly to study but I am considering immigration. I will be there almost 5 years. The required time and grade for citizenship. So I may even denounce my American citizenship. I am 26 years old and I am curious to know what the medical disqualifiers for military service is. Also I have no thai ancestry I am mixed European and Cherokee ( a native american tribe), but ( and please correct if I am wrong) I have read that if you have citizenship then it really doesn't matter what your origin is as long as you have met the standards for immigration. Since I will be 31 by the time I decide to enlist or not and want to know if it is doable, and one last question I realize the attendence to the military academies is reserved for citizens who are born in thailand but are there other options for obtaining a commission in the thai Military. I am trying to get an idea of all available options for military service in thailand. The Closest thing to full military service I have been in is a civilian volunteer group attached to US Air Force called Civil Air Patrol. I started as a cadet in the program and now learning search and rescue. KEEP IN MIND THAT ITS A VOLUNTEER AUXILARY OF THE AIR FORCE IN NO WAY AM I AN AIRMAN IN USAF.

[jubby]

Your probably too Old for Military Service. I think its only for full blood Thai's anyway. Do you know something about getting Thai Citizenship that the rest of us don't ?. A reality check maybe in order.

[sanook2me]

I am coming to thailand pretty soon. Mostly to study but I am considering immigration. I will be there almost 5 years. The required time and grade for citizenship. So I may even denounce my American citizenship. I am 26 years old and I am curious to know what the medical disqualifiers for military service is. Also I have no thai ancestry I am mixed European and Cherokee ( a native american tribe), but ( and please correct if I am wrong) I have read that if you have citizenship then it really doesn't matter what your origin is as long as you have met the standards for immigration. Since I will be 31 by the time I decide to enlist or not and want to know if it is doable, and one last question I realize the attendence to the military academies is reserved for citizens who are born in thailand but are there other options for obtaining a commission in the thai Military. I am trying to get an idea of all available options for military service in thailand. The Closest thing to full military service I have been in is a civilian volunteer group attached to US Air Force called Civil Air Patrol. I started as a cadet in the program and now learning search and rescue. KEEP IN MIND THAT ITS A VOLUNTEER AUXILARY OF THE AIR FORCE IN NO WAY AM I AN AIRMAN IN USAF.

Dream on dude..

Go to College in the US and get yourself a degree in something and do a TEFL course and become an English teacher here, you will earn easily 5 times more than the Army pay.

This aint the good olde US of A Army with cushy perks and nice pension.

Or join your Army do your service retire and come here on the pension

Lots of choices in how to live here but the one you are talking about is just an hallucination.

[Jungian]

Can you read, write and speak fluent Thai? Can you sing the national anthem and the Kings song? If not you better not denounce your citizenship to quickly. If you denounce your American citizenship to the American embassy or consulate they will take your passport and you will be illegal in this country making you ineligible for work. If and when you become a Thai citizen it is not necessary to denounce your American citizenship. Not for nothing but I could understand your intention during the Bush administration but now?

[barrybike]

cant b done

[slapout]

Me thinks the boy (26 year old) has gotten into the firewater stash.

[callum06]

I smell a troll that is trolling around

[dizbukhapeter]

If this is serious, why don't you join the U.S. military with it's many benefits towards college and careers and become one of the many servicemen already here? Anyways why throw away American citizenship? In Thailand you'll always be an American and never truly a Thai. A dual citizenship is the rational option.

Edited May 27, 2009 by dizbukhapeter

[oldsparrow]

1. For the officer career

1.1 After the 10 grade, enter the Pre-Cadet School. You select to take exam into your choices be it Army, Navy, Air Forces and Police. They all get training together in boarding school, go home during weekend if there is nothing wrong wih your performance during the week. It offers high school certificate.

Then, to your academy, be it Army, Navy etc. 4 more years and get enlisted as Lt.

1.2 After University degree, pass the exam to be Lt. candicate, get some month of training and get enlisted. The position is very limited and this kind of officer will not command the force nor get to top brass position, unwritten rule.

2. For the NCO career

2.2 Same as 1.1 but to NCO school to be corporal after 2-3 years I am not sure

2.2 Volunteer to be private.

Starting as NCO the highest rank when you retire is around Maj. or Lt.Col.

It's only the citizenship that counts, no need for pure blood Thai.

BUT at 31 you are too old for any school.

You only choice is to volunteer as private and will most likely be sent to the 3 Southern Province trauble zone. Similar chance of being bomb or head chop off like GI in Iraq.

Edited May 27, 2009 by oldsparrow

[oldsparrow]

I am not quite sure what the private's net pay is but less than 200 Bucks / month for sure.

Medication - you can be short, no problem, 5'2" or 5'3" is still OK for private volunteer.

[BigSnake]

If all else fail you could opt to be a volunteer Tourist Policeman in your Area It is worthy of a thought.

[whitewolf329]

Sorry I should have mentioned this it would have saved some trouble I humbly apologize. Some of you must have thought that I asked without figuring out if it was even possible. I am vary sorry for that. I have learned that once you the Thai Citizenship you have the same oppurtunities and rights as every other thai born citizen. That includes military service. So it is possible. Since you are an immigrant you are limited but you can enlist. What happens is that once you have the citizenship then you have to apply for the draft if eligible, and most of the DQs are related to age ( you have to be under 45 years) and background ( were you in a forign military or a cadet and so on instead of origin) and medical history( but they really say medically unfit for duty which can mean just about anything) This is the part that I need to get answered. I applied as an AMerican soldier but I was DQed because I have an eye disease that is treatable but the US military neither likes the eye disease nor the treatment for it, which has an 80% success rate, and its not even invasive, and its permenant so its not like jumping out of an airplane is going to cause trouble for me. So anyway I mostly got my sources from thai military and immigration related websites and I was careful to be sure that they were thai gov't websites. I have even researched international law regarding the recruitment of forigners. It basically says they have to be a permenant something in the country French Forign Legion being the exception sense they are not really tied in with any specific nation. France just tolerates their existence. Thailands case because I am an AMerican citizen then I have to apply for Thai Citizenship. So these are the Questions I need answered really? Everything else is either I have already found the answer to or I have not thought of. This is not meant to discourage opinions for one thing maybe I have not looked up something if so then please tell me it may save me some trouble and you would probubly be alot of help. Anyway here are the questions.

What is considered medically unfit for duty?

What do their regs say about eye disease and eye disease treatments?

Can an immigrant with full citizenship apply for OCS?

Oh yeah and I am not sure which one mentioned this but something about ( well the summarized version) Weather or not I know the Thai language and customs and courtesies. I think that is why they have the 5 year time in country so you can be properly assimilated into thai society. It seems that way because the immigration laws seem to be similar to the US immigration laws. In fact we also have the time in country policy for the vary same reason. It also comes in handy for taking the time you need to study what you need to study for the green card. So far everything I have learned about thai military, and immigration laws is that they are modeled after the American systems. So they are going to be similar but from what I can tell is that they are not the same. US systems of these are vary strict and even stressful. Thai system doesn't seem that way at least on the websites they don't.

[whitewolf329]

1. For the officer career

1.1 After the 10 grade, enter the Pre-Cadet School. You select to take exam into your choices be it Army, Navy, Air Forces and Police. They all get training together in boarding school, go home during weekend if there is nothing wrong wih your performance during the week. It offers high school certificate.

Then, to your academy, be it Army, Navy etc. 4 more years and get enlisted as Lt.

1.2 After University degree, pass the exam to be Lt. candicate, get some month of training and get enlisted. The position is very limited and this kind of officer will not command the force nor get to top brass position, unwritten rule.

2. For the NCO career

2.2 Same as 1.1 but to NCO school to be corporal after 2-3 years I am not sure

2.2 Volunteer to be private.

Starting as NCO the highest rank when you retire is around Maj. or Lt.Col.

It's only the citizenship that counts, no need for pure blood Thai.

BUT at 31 you are too old for any school.

You only choice is to volunteer as private and will most likely be sent to the 3 Southern Province trauble zone. Similar chance of being bomb or head chop off like GI in Iraq.

thank you thats vary useful. I appreciate your help.

[whitewolf329]

I smell a troll that is trolling around

I respect your caution. You are quite possibly vary wise, but even though I can't prove it I am no spy. Besides I don't like lieing to me its a serious integrity issue to me. Good analogy though it made me laugh.

[whitewolf329]

If all else fail you could opt to be a volunteer Tourist Policeman in your Area It is worthy of a thought.

That sounds like a good idea, and I have noticed that they are incredably active especially in Bangkok. Thank you vary much.

[whitewolf329]

If this is serious, why don't you join the U.S. military with it's many benefits towards college and careers and become one of the many servicemen already here? Anyways why throw away American citizenship? In Thailand you'll always be an American and never truly a Thai. A dual citizenship is the rational option.

Well that is true in the cherokee tradition there is no word in the language for half in regards to origin. It just doesn't exist anywhere in cherokee. So you are either are or are not because it is not the quantity of your blood that matters but its the quality of your blood that matters. So the way I see it I can't change my origin, but as long as I know who I am and where I come from then it doesn't really matter. The only difference is that my allegiance is with a different country instead of my homeland.

[whitewolf329]

Me thinks the boy (26 year old) has gotten into the firewater stash.

Not a bad guess you might as well had ended that with Indian but I thought it was funny. Besides if it sounds funny then why be offended. Anyway actually I am a christian and have 2 older brothers who had alcohol problems ( their better now) but I don't drink alcohol because of that. Well more or less because of my brothers then my religion. To be honest if hearing about your brother pointing his gun at his family doesn't convince you that being an alcoholic is a bad idea then I don't know what will. Either way it convinced me and I have never touched the stuff.

[Nagatus]

Just in case if you really are not a troll.

There is absolutely 100% way that your plan will work in practice, in theory yes, in practice no!

I mean really! come on

[Monroe]

I'm wary of your premise, but that aside, you'd be better off fixing your eyes and reapplying to the US Military. I know you didn't mention which branch you applied to, but maybe go for one of the branches with lax entrance requirements: like the Army, Marines, or the Navy.

Even by Thai standards, Thai military wages are low and benefits nonexistent. Post-increase, a private (or the Thai equivalent) makes about THB 8000 a month, or USD 233. Compared to USD 1500-1800/month and USD 50 thousand toward college for enlistees in one of the US branches.

Also, being realistic, Thai citizenship is harder to get than it really needs to be and you will most likely be denied.

I happen to be an Airman in the US Air Force and my brother is in the ROTC program.

[whitewolf329]

Just in case if you really are not a troll.

There is absolutely 100% way that your plan will work in practice, in theory yes, in practice no!

I mean really! come on

thats why I said it was possible. I must have searched the entire internet on information on just the immigration laws. So far what I have come up with is that it is possible. In other words if there is a law I have missed somewhere then its a law or more then likely a by-law that is vary easy to miss unless you know where to find it.

[whitewolf329]

I'm wary of your premise, but that aside, you'd be better off fixing your eyes and reapplying to the US Military. I know you didn't mention which branch you applied to, but maybe go for one of the branches with lax entrance requirements: like the Army, Marines, or the Navy.

Even by Thai standards, Thai military wages are low and benefits nonexistent. Post-increase, a private (or the Thai equivalent) makes about THB 8000 a month, or USD 233. Compared to USD 1500-1800/month and USD 50 thousand toward college for enlistees in one of the US branches.

Also, being realistic, Thai citizenship is harder to get than it really needs to be and you will most likely be denied.

I happen to be an Airman in the US Air Force and my brother is in the ROTC program.

Actually what I have is classified as a permanent disqualifier even the coast guard Rejected me which surprised even the guy who suggested that branch to me. Even if I was to get the operation they still can say no across the board. Besides I don't mind the pay. Pay is not my main interest neither is benefit. In my opinion, and don't get me wrong I do think that the majority of american soldiers are this, way but if your just joining for benefits or even better pay then you are joining for the wrong reasons.

[whitewolf329]

1. For the officer career

1.1 After the 10 grade, enter the Pre-Cadet School. You select to take exam into your choices be it Army, Navy, Air Forces and Police. They all get training together in boarding school, go home during weekend if there is nothing wrong wih your performance during the week. It offers high school certificate.

Then, to your academy, be it Army, Navy etc. 4 more years and get enlisted as Lt.

1.2 After University degree, pass the exam to be Lt. candicate, get some month of training and get enlisted. The position is very limited and this kind of officer will not command the force nor get to top brass position, unwritten rule.

2. For the NCO career

2.2 Same as 1.1 but to NCO school to be corporal after 2-3 years I am not sure

2.2 Volunteer to be private.

Starting as NCO the highest rank when you retire is around Maj. or Lt.Col.

It's only the citizenship that counts, no need for pure blood Thai.

BUT at 31 you are too old for any school.

You only choice is to volunteer as private and will most likely be sent to the 3 Southern Province trauble zone. Similar chance of being bomb or head chop off like GI in Iraq.

thank you thats vary useful. I appreciate your help.

So the cutoff age for officers and noncoms is 30 correct?

[dizbukhapeter]

How much about Thailand and it's military do you know? In my opinion it's a piss poor military if you're shopping around for foreign militaries. It'll be pretty hard for a white boy to form an esprit de corp among thais, especially with hardly any understanding of them. I don't think you'll be treated equally and probably taken advantage of. What exactly are you looking for? To be one of the thousands of corrupt military officers with no real jobs? Reality is far from what is shown on the military websites.

Also I think that if you join another country's military, the U.S. will revoke your citizenship and people who join the French Foreign Legion gain French citizenship after a five year contract, so they are serving for the French nation and not as an autonomous entity.

I'm joining up in the Army next year after I get out of college.

Edited May 27, 2009 by dizbukhapeter

[whitewolf329]

How much about Thailand and it's military do you know? In my opinion it's a piss poor military if you're shopping around for foreign militaries. It'll be pretty hard for a white boy to form an esprit de corp among thais, especially with hardly any understanding of them. I don't think you'll be treated equally and probably taken advantage of. What exactly are you looking for? To be one of the thousands of corrupt military officers with no real jobs? Reality is far from what is shown on the military websites.

Also I think that if you join another country's military, the U.S. will revoke your citizenship and people who join the French Foreign Legion gain French citizenship after a five year contract, so they are serving for the French nation and not as an autonomous entity.

I'm joining up in the Army next year after I get out of college.

You are not that far off. By US forign policy if an American Citizen joins a forign military then he has to denounce his citizenship otherwise he would be in violation of the law. Thats why I am going through the immagration process so this way no US laws are being broken, and another american born citizen faced a similar challenge. He was in Taiwan and enlisted in the Army. Amazingly as his fellow soldiers developed the esprit de corps he developed one with them. At first his fellow recruits couldn't figure out what the hel_l he was doing there. Imagine their surprise when they discovered he was going to be training with them. After his Basic Training he got along vary well with them. Even forming a comaradery with even the toughest guys in his unit. So I found that to be vary encouraging when I heard about him. He even wrote a book about his experiance in the Taiwanese Army.

[samran]

I think the OP is getting ahead of himself.

Firstly he will have to get PR, which will require a salary in the vicinity of 80K per month with tax receipts on that for the past three years before applying. Hard to earn that in Thailand without a degree. Getting PR as a student is a no-go.

Secondly, you'll need that level of salary to put you into contentition to apply for citizenship, a process which if it works well takes another three years.

I reckon he is looking at 8 to 10 years before he is even in the ball park for getting himself when he will even be in the position to be considered for citizenship.

As for military service, compulsory military service cuts out at 30. It is also not compulsory for someone who has been naturalised as a Thai. Simply being over 30 is reason enough to be rejected from the draft.

Furthermore if he were to volunteer, I think he'll find that the same medical problems preventing him from joining the US armed forces will prevent him from joining the Thai armed forces.

[samran]

Just in case if you really are not a troll.

There is absolutely 100% way that your plan will work in practice, in theory yes, in practice no!

I mean really! come on

thats why I said it was possible. I must have searched the entire internet on information on just the immigration laws. So far what I have come up with is that it is possible. In other words if there is a law I have missed somewhere then its a law or more then likely a by-law that is vary easy to miss unless you know where to find it.

I take it then you have read this

Guide to PR

more generally this

general rules

and this guide to the citizenship application

Edited May 27, 2009 by samran

[whitewolf329]

I think the OP is getting ahead of himself.

Firstly he will have to get PR, which will require a salary in the vicinity of 80K per month with tax receipts on that for the past three years before applying. Hard to earn that in Thailand without a degree. Getting PR as a student is a no-go.

Secondly, you'll need that level of salary to put you into contentition to apply for citizenship, a process which if it works well takes another three years.

I reckon he is looking at 8 to 10 years before he is even in the ball park for getting himself when he will even be in the position to be considered for citizenship.

As for military service, compulsory military service cuts out at 30. It is also not compulsory for someone who has been naturalised as a Thai. Simply being over 30 is reason enough to be rejected from the draft.

Furthermore if he were to volunteer, I think he'll find that the same medical problems preventing him from joining the US armed forces will prevent him from joining the Thai armed forces.

Well first off I have found out that thai law doesn't hinder getting a job. In fact I have a thai friend who is thoroughly researching different jobs ( within reason of course, hey I maybe naive but I am not a crook) So far it just says that my corpse has to be in physical existance in thailand for 5 years to qualify the others help one of them is marry a local ( I would have to take my wifes family name but still) Going to school in thailand helps. So if I focus on those areas that help me then I can get it within the minimum timeframe. Thats assuming there isn't a by-law hurdle that doesn't get passed within the next 5 years. So far I have not found one. As for medical problems well thats one reason why I need to find their military medical regs. There is going to be something that covers what is medically unfit for service. I don't know if your thai or not or if you can read the language but what we are looking for is something that translates as grounds for disqualification for military application. It should be a vary specific area. If you can find this reg then we will go from there.

[whitewolf329]

Just in case if you really are not a troll.

There is absolutely 100% way that your plan will work in practice, in theory yes, in practice no!

I mean really! come on

thats why I said it was possible. I must have searched the entire internet on information on just the immigration laws. So far what I have come up with is that it is possible. In other words if there is a law I have missed somewhere then its a law or more then likely a by-law that is vary easy to miss unless you know where to find it.

I take it then you have read this

Guide to PR

more generally this

general rules

and this guide to the citizenship application

No but I have been looking for that thanks this will be great help. That should have all of the immigration questions answered. Do you know how hard these things are to find. The site I was at was just a link from the Thai Embassey website. It was pretty general. So the first step upon arrival is besides collage we will assume for now that that is taken care of. Is get a job of somekind Getting the right amount pay to get the PR will be the hard part. I will diffenently want to take some classes in thai language. Make no mistake about it if I want that citizenship then there is not a moment to lose. If you can find anything on the Thai military regs on the information I am looking for then that will be even more helpful. Keep in mind that its going to be pretty specific. I don't mind being a private the pay may suck but if they need people to help stabilize the southern provinces then I have no problem with the duty assignment. Oh yeah and one more thing can you see what kind of MOS ( military occupational specialties) are offered to privates. In any of there branches just post the link if you find it. Thanks again you are vary helpful.

[Briggsy]

:D

Maybe OP has been or perhaps he's just

Or even a troll

[sanook2me]

:D

Maybe OP has been or perhaps he's just

Or even a troll

This loser is over the top with his queries and is playing us but

It may not be unreasonable for someone in the West to think they can take any job in Thailand such as Armed forces, Polic or the Civil Service/Government.

If you have no experience here I think it would be easy to assume you can apply for this sort of job/career