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Posted

The bottom line is that Doctor John seems to miss the point that people who post on forums without being able to support their rantings are mere trolls.

You and Boris can bleat on and on about 'evil sex tourists' and 'fat white plonkers' until you're blue in the face but I don't think you're upsetting anyone (just wishful thinking on your part) Its more a case of people pointing out how incorrect you are in your assumptions. You have been asked to put up or shut up.

You can't do the former so I suggest you do the latter as repeating yourself ad nauseum is just making yourself look even more foolish.

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Posted

are they gonna be all over the country checking every crumby kareoki bar frequented by Thais ?

No, they are not going to be all over the country, but there is international pressure to put an end to sex tourism and exploitation of Asian children by Westerners, that is why western police forces are getting involved I would assume.

Of course they cannot stop it in a few weeks, but once a few people are busted and exposed in their own countries, it may help stem the flow of other like minded

And how else would they get sex?

thai police know full well what is going on where this sort of thing take place.

and they are PAID OFF BY THE OWNERS OF THE DIVES to keep off their backs .

this is normal business.

even where underage girls are working in issan dives locals could not give a toss

, they just shrug and laugh . its none of their business and they are earning money, thats all it boils down too.

so UK police giving and hand is just plain bolox , because the thai police are on the take and dont give a toss.

Posted
Not by a long shot.  I'd also like to add that the majority of pedohpiles in Thailand do not cross any borders to get here.

Being a nurse, I have seen the physical and mental condition these exploited young

ones have endured... the sad truth is that after living in Pattaya, even the maids will offer their nieces and nephews to come live with you. All for a price of course. Thilands reputation is well known worldwide for the sex trade, it is nice to see the ones who dont

consent to this activity to have someone on their side.

Posted
The bottom line is that Doctor John seems to miss the point that people who post on forums without being able to support their rantings are mere trolls.

You and Boris can bleat on and on about 'evil sex tourists' and 'fat white plonkers' until you're blue in the face but I don't think you're upsetting anyone (just wishful thinking on your part) Its more a case of people pointing out how incorrect you are in your assumptions. You have been asked to put up or shut up.

You can't do the former so I suggest you do the latter as repeating yourself ad nauseum is just making yourself look even more foolish.

You never did answer why you are so against a person that disagrees with sex tourism, is it because if sex tourism did not exist, you could never have sex again?

Posted
The bottom line is that Doctor John seems to miss the point that people who post on forums without being able to support their rantings are mere trolls.

What uttter rubbish, So are you saying that every person that has an opinion that differs to yours is a troll?

How can people Prove an opinion, we are anonymous, I could tell you I was anything or anyone, what difference would it make to my opinions?

I still disagree with sex tourism and you still support it, that's the bottom line.

Posted
The bottom line is that Doctor John seems to miss the point that people who post on forums without being able to support their rantings are mere trolls.

You and Boris can bleat on and on about 'evil sex tourists' and 'fat white plonkers' until you're blue in the face but I don't think you're upsetting anyone (just wishful thinking on your part) Its more a case of people pointing out how incorrect you are in your assumptions. You have been asked to put up or shut up.

You can't do the former so I suggest you do the latter as repeating yourself ad nauseum is just making yourself look even more foolish.

You never did answer why you are so against a person that disagrees with sex tourism, is it because if sex tourism did not exist, you could never have sex again?

I for one Dr J, would like you to honestly answer the questions posed to you.

I am personally not against people who are against sex tourism, infact nothing could be further from the truth.What I can have a problem with is people who always take the moral high ground with an almost religious fervor....always makes me wonder why.. :o

Posted
I still disagree with sex tourism and you still support it, that's the bottom line.

Can't understand why you believe everybody that opposes your views supports sex tourism. Perhaps some people are neutral on this subject, like myself?

Or maybe you're just on the wind-up :o

Posted

Doctor John, I say you are a troll because you make no point. All you do is bang on about 'evil sex tourists' Any fool can name call.

You fail to provide any substance or body to anything you say, and trying to back away from being highlighted as a hypocrite and a fool by saying that we're all anonymous is just laughable.

OK, so we're all 'anonymous' here (although we are nothing of the sort) , however this is still a debating forum where if you have a point to make then do so through your 'anonymous' handle or back down from your one dimensional stance.

Posted (edited)

Doctor John, I say you are a troll because you make no point.

[/quote ]

Seems like you think of my words as a personal affront, why would you think that way?

Are you a sex tourist or a sex tourists apologist?

Answers on a postcard please.

The Sex Tourism Supporters Club is alive and well in sunny UK. :o

Edited by Doctor John
Posted

I haven't said if I am or I'm not. What I do is I like to highlight hypocrites like you Doctor John. Now instead of trying to wriggle out of the argument by trying to lable people, why not reply to the questions asked?

Posted

Nothing like a good morality issue to get the blood boiling and the hackles up.

Dr J has a point when he says that his standing on his soapbox of anonymity has no bearing on this topics. In addition, he claims that not personally knowing the posters and vise versa prevents this from becoming a personal issue. But when the name calling commences, all bets are off and the forum does take on a personal bent.

I firmly believe that all of us here would agree that child prostitution in any form is a social ill that needs to be controlled and eradicated as much as possible. I think there is no argument there.

So what this really boils down to is the opinions and views on the "normal" forms of prostitution. Dr J is entitled to his opinion on this subject as are the rest of us. The bottom line to all prostitution is that it is one h*ll of a way to make easy money after all, it didn't get the label 'the worlds first profession' for its social contributions to society. Does anyone really believe that this forum could ever have an effect on the worlds largest industry. It was, it is and it shall always be.

Dr J, you have stated that it is the plight of the poor to endure the 'beasts' as you so eloquently put it. Have you asked yourself what is the root cause of this poverty and why any government would not immediately resolve such issues. It is really an easy answer, they don't do it because there is no money in it for them. Here in Thailand as with the rest of the world, it would dry up a very lucrative source of easy money, money that is siphoned back to those same governments. That is why prostitution was, is, and ever shall be as I see it and no amount of ranting and raving will ever put a stop to it.

What would your opinion be of the deaths of 1000's of children due to starvation in many third world countries. Are not the people who are in a position to do something to end this starvation but choose not to, the real beasts of the world Is a sin of the flesh really comparable to the sin of murder of this helpless children. My intention is not to lessen the crime of child sexual abuse but to put it in perspective. Would that not be a better target for your energy Dr J, rather than trying to convince others of the horrors of their lustful ways.

Just my humble opinion, not meant to be construed as a personal affront to anyone.

Posted
I haven't said if I am or I'm not. What I do is I like to highlight hypocrites like you Doctor John. Now instead of trying to wriggle out of the argument by trying to lable people, why not reply to the questions asked?

How can you possibly highlight a hypocrite when you have no clue as to who I am?

You only know what I tell you, but as this thread is not about who I am , what is the point (Ok I have never ever paid for sex with a prostitute in Thailand ) Do you feel better now?

Now you will call me a liar and we will get so far off topic it will be closed, maybe that is your intention.

I shudder to think why.

Posted
I firmly believe that all of us here would agree that child prostitution in any form is a social ill that needs to be controlled and eradicated as much as possible.  I think there is no argument there.

Well I for one believe that, but I can only speak for myself.

Posted (edited)
What absolute horse-hocky! These are completely different things.

A man paying a woman for sex is the same the world over. It is what it is, a business transaction for physical pleasure, nothing more, nothing less. Maybe something longer term will come from it, but the chances are extremely remote.

A long term relationship between a Thai woman and a non-Thai man is not even remotely related to a "john-prostitute" relationship.

-

Sorry Spee, but you do realize that there is such a thing as marital prostitution, don't you? I am not saying that all marriages between Thais and non-Thais are of this nature, but there are definitely long-term johns my friend.

If underage sex was not accepet and practiced in this country by its countrymen how on earth do you think some tourist with those leaning could get any action, wake up and smell the coffee

Absolutely correct.

If underage sex was not accepet and practiced in this country by its countrymen how on earth do you think some tourist with those leaning could get any action, wake up and smell the coffee

So because there is a high murder rate in Columbia, would it be Ok for plane loads of western tourists to arrive in Bogota and start murdering people ? :o

There are pedophiles who are Western tourists, but not all sex tourists are pedophiles. Why focus solely on sex tourists? There are husbands, fathers, step-fathers, brothers, and mothers who are pedophiles.

are they gonna be all over the country checking every crumby kareoki bar frequented by Thais ?

99% of the problem is down to the locals.

but good luck to them and i hope they offer to feed the families forced to sell their children to the brothels ,because thats the root of the problem .

last time i was in an issan kareoki there were numerous under age girls selling their wares to thai locals.

the owner of the kareoki was a local director of a school not far away !!

but the girls didnt attend his school- he was smart !

Poverty in Thailand is no longer the root cause of child-selling or prostitution.

This has been old news for at least the last 10 years.  There is also a huge problem in this country with abusive school staff.  I think it is similar to abusive priests in the West, and there have been several scandals involving monks.

Spot on!

The press nowadays really like making trivial things like farangs molesting asian children big just to gain attention!

It is the Thai Nationals themselves FGS!

Although local pedophila is a hugh probelm in SEA, I wouldn't even think of dismissing foreign abuse as "trivial". I believe that foreign abuse has the potential to grow as large as local abuse as more and more foreign pedophiles marry local women with children. I beleive that this is a growing silent "frontier."

And before you all flame me, I am not saying that ALL men who marry women with children are pedophiles, or are victims of maritial prostitution.

Edited for clarity (embedded posts are confusing) and length

Edited by astral
Posted

No, they are not going to be all over the country, but there is international pressure to put an end to sex tourism and exploitation of Asian children by Westerners, that is why western police forces are getting involved I would assume.

Sex Tourism and exploitation of Asian children are not one in the same. World Vision and a great number of other groups would like the Western World's tax payers to think that they are one in the same, but they most certainly are not.

Why do they want to put an end to sexual exploitation of Asian children by Westerners when 99% of the sexual exploiters of Asian children are Asians from the very same country. The writers of these articles will never tell you that because it will not garner charity from donors nor from the government.

Read the book, "Sex Slaves" by Louise Brown. It is an excellent critique on actual sexual slavery and underage prostitution in the world. The inside flap on the front cover states very clearly that the vast majority of the customers of underage girls throughout Asia are ASIANS!!!

And, when it comes to exploitation, let's not forget about the factories and construction sites in Thailand and the rest of SE Asia. Any traveler- or resident of Asia who wants to start casting stones at Sex-Tourists better look at the meal which he/she just ate, the clothes on his/her back and the home in which they stay because nearly every item which they use was produced by $100/month laborers who have been treated like garbage from the time they were old enough to work.

Did you eat rice today? A rice picker might earn 120 baht / day.

If someone picked rice from their own field and sold it to the sole local buyer of rice in that area - known as a monopsony, he paid so little that the workers would more than likely not have earned even this amount.

Are you wearing any clothes?

Take a look at the hundreds of girls, not women, but girls who come out of the factories where they labor for 4000 / month.

The list goes on and on.

Yes, catch the European pedophile and all of the rest of the pedophiles while you are out there, but if anyone is focusing in on the European and Americans, then their concern is not in protecting Asian children from sexual exploitation, but instead in apprehending only a tiny fraction of the villains and only because of their passports.

Posted

".... but if anyone is focusing in on the European and Americans, then their concern is not in protecting Asian children from sexual exploitation, but instead in apprehending only a tiny fraction of the villains and only because of their passports."

Yes, that's right, and deflecting attention from their own status quo.

Posted
".... but if anyone is focusing in on the European and Americans, then their concern is not in protecting Asian children from sexual exploitation, but instead in apprehending only a tiny fraction of the villains and only because of their passports."

Yes, that's right, and deflecting attention from their own status quo.

Kat, couldn't agree more.

Are you feeling better now?

Posted

I firmly believe that all of us here would agree that child prostitution in any form is a social ill that needs to be controlled and eradicated as much as possible.  I think there is no argument there.

Well I for one believe that, but I can only speak for myself.

well why not than clean your own back yards up first, child abuse/prostition is common the world over :D

let the thai's deal with their own back yard problem's first :o

Posted

I firmly believe that all of us here would agree that child prostitution in any form is a social ill that needs to be controlled and eradicated as much as possible.  I think there is no argument there.

Well I for one believe that, but I can only speak for myself.

well why not than clean your own back yards up first, child abuse/prostition is common the world over :D

let the thai's deal with their own back yard problem's first :o

Huh? :D

Posted (edited)
UK police are in Thailand to help train their south-east Asian counterparts in methods of combating sex offending.

Children from the region are frequent victims of the sex trade, either being forced to work in brothels or used for pornographic images on the internet

full story

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4248595.stm

One worries that if the UK police train Thai police the sex trade here will take on the characteristics of the UK sex trade; a largely pimp and drug driven thing, with no redeeming features whatsoever.

Edited by wilko
Posted
Maybe they should start with the Thai Nationals first.That's where most of it occurs. :o

The Thai Nationals are not Sex Tourists in Thailand. 

Please stick to the topic.   :D

It is right on topic.

Look at the title. No mention of tourism, just the Sex Trade.

The Sex Trade here is like an iceberg. The part the tourist sees is is One Tenth,

the other 9 tenths are out of sight in the Thai part of the trade.

The actions of the UK police have nothing to do with helping children here,

it is all about publicity.

They talk about a growing concern.................??

As someone who has lived here for 20 years, I can tell you that the level of the

child sex trade today, is a fraction of what it was when I arrived!!

The laws have changed here, as they have in many South and SE Asian nations,

and those new laws are being enforced.

These "Johnny come lately's" from the UK do not know what they are talking about,

they just want to make a name for themselves in the media.

Posted
ขอโทษที่ต้องใช้ภาษาไทยค่ะ ( ถ้าใช้ภาษาอังกฤษ คงอีกสามวันค่ะ กว่าจะส่งข้อความได้ ) แต่หนูคิดว่าคงมีคนอ่านออก  ไม่ได้อ่านหัวข้อกระทู้แบบละเอียดนะคะ แต่หนูขอสรุปเนื้อหาว่า การที่ตำรวจอังกฤษจะมาช่วยเหลือแบบนี้ ในฐานะคนไทยก็ขอขอบคุณมาก แต่มันไม่ใช่การแก้ปัญหาที่ต้นเหตุค่ะ  ตำรวจอังกฤษควรจะเอาเวลาไปปราบปราม และปรับปรุงทัศนคติของนักท่องเที่ยวชาวอังกฤษมากกว่า ในเรื่องการเที่ยวโสเภณี  อยากให้เกิดการรณรงค์เช่นเดียวกับการค้าขนสัตว์ การค้าเนื้อสัตว์ผิดกฎหมายที่ไปรณรงค์กับผู้ซื้อน่ะค่ะ เพราะของแบบนี้มันไม่มีอุปสงค์ก็ไม่มีอุปทาน ( no demand no supply ) หนูขอยกข่าว( หรืออาจจะเป็นงานวิจัย )ที่ค่อนข้างน่าเชื่อถือ  เรื่องลูกค้าชายชาวญี่ปุ่น ที่ชอบใช้บริการทางเพศ  เรื่องนี้เกิดขึ้นในอินโดนีเซียค่ะ รัฐบาลอินโดพยายามปราบปรามซ่องโสเภณีอย่างหนัก จนแทบไม่เหลือซ่อง แต่ผลที่ได้กลับตรงกันข้าม  มันเพิ่มขึ้น แต่เปลี่ยนเพียงแค่รูปแบบให้ดูลึกลับขึ้นเท่านั้น มันแสดงอะไรหรือคะ ...มันแสดงว่าตราบใดที่ลูกค้ายังไม่เลิกซื้อ นั่นหมายถึงมันจะไม่มีวันหมดไป ดังนั้น หนูจึงอยากขอร้องด้วยความจริงใจ ว่าถ้าคุณลุงทั้งหลาย ( หนูเชื่อว่าคนในบอร์ดนี้คงอายุมากกว่าหนูไม่ต่ำกว่า 20 ปี เลยเรียกว่าลุง )  ห่วงใยกับปัญหานี้จริงๆ ขอร้องให้ช่วยกันเลิกซื้อสินค้าเนื้อมนุษย์นี้เสียที จะดีมากๆค่ะ เรามาช่วยกันรณรงค์กันทั้งสองด้าน ทั้งประเทศต้นทางของลูกค้า ( แถวบ้านคุณๆ นั่นแหละค่ะ ) และประเทศที่มีซ่องนั่นก็คือ ไทยแลนด์บ้านหนูเอง  สมมติ ถ้า ลูกค้าแถบตะวันตก ญี่ปุ่น หรือจากที่อื่นๆ ไม่เข้ามาซื้อบริการทางเพศในเมืองไทย แต่ธุรกิจมันยังอยู่ได้ ก็ค่อยมาว่ากันอีกทีค่ะ แต่ตอนนี้หนูอยากตัดสาเหตุที่มีอยู่หลายๆตัวออกไปให้มันเหลือน้อยที่สุด เพื่อที่จะเหลือตัวแปรเดียวที่มีอิทธิพลมากที่สุดต่อการอยู่รอดของธุรกิจนี้ เมื่อถึงตอนนั้นเราก็จะปราบปรามได้อย่างตรงจุดกันเสียที

About as interesting as a glass of water.If you want to post Thai language,there is a section in this forum for that. :o

Posted

I hang out a lot in various places in bangkok. many times I meet people who are really unhappy with their lives. no matter what I did to try to make them happy, they would not smile. during the course of getting to know them, I found out that they enjoyed making other people unhappy.

..whatever it took, an insult, a threat. getting happy people to be miserable was such a high for them.

there are many people out there like this. including some on this board.

their only enjoyment in life is to make other people's lives miserable.

internet forums were made for these kind of people. beware.

Posted
I hang out a lot in various places in bangkok.  many times I meet people who are really unhappy with their lives.  no matter what I did to try to make them happy, they would not smile.  during the course of getting to know them, I found out that they enjoyed making other people unhappy.

..whatever it took, an insult, a threat.  getting happy people to be miserable was such a high for them.

there are many people out there like this.  including some on this board.

their only enjoyment in life is to make other people's lives miserable.

internet forums were made for these kind of people.  beware.

Hmmm.... who were you thinking of when you posted this? :o

And to jurie... sorry mate (I know you are kon Thai), English is the official language of this forum.

I would love to know your thoughts on this subject... in English. :D

Posted
The actions of the UK police have nothing to do with helping children here,

it is all about publicity...

These "Johnny come lately's" from the UK do not know what they are talking about, they just want to make a name for themselves in the media.

very good point, thks ! most of things done by politicians are for publicity. in fact in most of countries the very positions of powere are merely for publicity - the real guys who rule are on behind, on the background, placing forward some polititians who often even belive that they are realy in charge and not even being aware of what is realy going on, or not entirely... anyway, that is another subject.

the point is as you said - laws has changed. and all these current crackdowns and international summits held here, including this case of "cooperation" with UK police - needed for improving country's image in the eyes of influential counterparts. and why not? after all present PM was a telecom tycon and knows how to play the game.

and regarding another point:

The Sex Trade here is like an iceberg.  The part the tourist sees is is One Tenth, the other 9 tenths are out of sight in the Thai part of the trade."

it is not only here - everywhere in the world. the following numbers might be old, but at least reflect some facts (someone else might provide more recent, I couldn't find quickly):

Sex slavery: The growing trade

"...An estimated two million women and children are sold into the sex trade every year, the U.S. research group Protection Project states.

....

Up to 120,000 women are smuggled into western Europe, mainly from central and eastern Europe, and forced into prostitution....

It says more than 15,000 women are trafficked into the United States every year, many of them young girls from Mexico.

The project also claims that Asian women are sold to brothels in North America for $16,000 each.

Almost 200,000 girls from Nepal, many of them under the age of 14, are working as sex slaves in India.

An estimated 10,000 women from the former Soviet Union have been forced into prostitution in Israel.

The Thai government reports that 60,000 Thai children have been sold into prostitution.

As many as 10,000 children aged between six and 14 are virtually enslaved in brothels in Sri Lanka.

Some 20,000 women and children from Burma have been forced into prostitution in Thailand....."

and about UK police - as if they have not enough work back home:

"In Britain, details are surfacing of dozens of teenage girls in the care of social services who may have been kidnapped by organised gangs and forced to work as prostitutes abroad, mainly in Italy.

The girls in question are child asylum seekers from Africa, who enter the care of West Sussex social services after arriving at Gatwick Airport in the south of England.

A West Sussex council spokesman said: "It is true to say that a certain number of asylum seekers, minors, have gone missing from social services care. We believe they may have been taken by gangs abroad.... "

but the Q is - why it happens? trivial answer - because of uncontrolled lust. and one lust (for sex) generates / causes other kinds of lust - money, power etc. so, it is big biz - and all the governments in developed countries aware of that and have all the facts and information and MEANS to stop it - but they won't. why ? coz it is big money..... same like drugs - if Thaksin could do it, say Britain with their famous MI-6 (is it?) or USA with their CIA couldn't arrest all the drug lords - no, no need to shoot them on the spot for what they critised Thaksin, can do in more "civil ways" - but somehow they don't and won't. because a lot depends on such trade - whatever was allowed to show in the movie "Traffic" is a tiny part of that iceberg. yeah, once in a while will pop up some news report that government does its work - after all have to show that tax payers money not wasted completely, right?

but it is very big issue - and chat and talking here won't change much, if even on very high levels these things not allowed :

Woman sacked for revealing UN links with sex trade

"...She was sacked after disclosing that UN peacekeepers went to nightclubs where girls as young as 15 were forced to dance naked and have sex with customers, and that UN personnel and international aid workers were linked to prostitution rings in the Balkans....

During her time in Bosnia as an investigator, Ms Bolkovac, 41, uncovered evidence of girls who refused to have sex being beaten and raped in bars by their pimps while peacekeepers stood and watched. She discovered that one UN policeman who was supposed to be investigating the sex trade paid ฃ700 to a bar owner for an underage girl who he kept captive in his apartment to use in his own prostitution racket....

She was posted to Sarajevo in 1999 to investigate the traffic in young women from Eastern Europe. “When I started collecting evidence from the victims of sex-trafficking, it was clear that a number of UN officers were involved from several countries, including quite a few from Britain,” she said. “I was shocked, appalled and disgusted. They were supposed to be over there to help, but they were committing crimes themselves. But when I told the supervisors they didn’t want to know”. Two Britons, a UN peacekeeper and a policeman, have been sent home after allegations involving the sex trade. Both are being investigated....

Within days of reporting her findings in October 2000 she was demoted and six months later was sacked. She claimed that DynCorp wanted her removed because her work was threatening its “lucrative contract” to supply officers to the UN mission. DynCorp said that she was dismissed for gross misconduct. During the hearing DynCorp admitted that it had dismissed three officers for using prostitutes. Since 1998, eight DynCorp employees have been sent home from Bosnia; none has been prosecuted."

won't be a wonder if after few years since now some similar report comes up that those Johnis from UK police themselves were doing similar stuff.... if their fellow countrymen from UN could - why they couldn't ?

Posted
An estimated two million women and children are sold into the sex trade every year, the U.S. research group Protection Project states.

....

Up to 120,000 women are smuggled into western Europe, mainly from central and eastern Europe, and forced into prostitution....

It says more than 15,000 women are trafficked into the United States every year, many of them young girls from Mexico.

The project also claims that Asian women are sold to brothels in North America for $16,000 each.

Almost 200,000 girls from Nepal, many of them under the age of 14, are working as sex slaves in India.

An estimated 10,000 women from the former Soviet Union have been forced into prostitution in Israel.

The Thai government reports that 60,000 Thai children have been sold into prostitution.

As many as 10,000 children aged between six and 14 are virtually enslaved in brothels in Sri Lanka.

Some 20,000 women and children from Burma have been forced into prostitution in Thailand....."[/size][/i][/color]

But if you ask the average Sex Tourist coming to Thailand they will scream that the sex workers are getting rich from their money, and they choose to do it.

In many many cases this is just not the case, but sex tourists will try to defend their actions , one thing they cannot change however is the fact that are a sad bunch of lowlifes exploiting another persons misfortune.

If you wanna give money to someone that needs it, give it to an AIDS Hospice or an Orphanage, don't make people sleep with you for the money!

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