Proposition For A Consumer Reporting Website/board

[hhiser]

I have lived in Thailand for almost 5 years. There are many things that I enjoy about this beautiful country. There are many things I do not like about Thailand. One of those things is buying products again and again which should have lasted for years. In 5 years I have bought 3 faucets for my kitchen sink. The first faucet was a cheap brand (I forgot the name) it lasted for a little over a year. Then the next 2 were manufactured by Sanwa and they lasted for almost the same amount of time. This is a recurring problem with many types of products ranging from clothing to household products. With the products from manufactures based in the US, Japan, and Europe, I am curious is the lack of repercussions in selling defective products allowing them to sell products that they would normally not allow on the market in the US, Japan, or Europe. Thus they would receive revenue for what would normally be junk. I have proposed that a website could be setup where we could report products we deemed to be defective. This idea has been unanimously discouraged. Then of course we could do the reverse, instead of reporting bad products, we could instead praise good products. Would this be acceptable? Would it be helpful? 

[ignis]

The list would be endless

[lopburi3]

Actually the item you listed was probably destroyed by sand in the water rather than being defective. Take a look at what Tesco is selling these days in there hardware departments - is that an example of what they currently sell in Europe?

[GungaDin]

Good idea!

If the "Sale Of Goods Act" (UK) was introduced here, 95% of Thai businesses would go to the wall in 3 months.

Now, I only buy goods from the chains who have a returns policy. Tesco, Car4, HomePro et al.

Mom & Pop shops, can go to the dunny.

[Thanh-BKK]

Yeah.

And do something about the built-in life timer in computer parts or other electronics!! I, too have changed faucets and specifically shower knobs a few times, they just don't last here... however what gets me every time is the precise timing in which computer stuff breaks.

I have swapped approximately 100 CD/DVD drives in Thailand. When they come with a two-year warranty they last 25 months. If they have a six months warranty they last 7 months. I have an alarm clock (mechanical! Those are supposed to last 50 years!) which came with a 6-month warranty.. ONE WEEK after warranty expiration it was broken.

Monday and Tuesday (that makes it two consecutive days) each one of my PC case fans failed. Checked the receipt - the case is one year and three weeks old, three weeks over the warranty.

On contrary i have a mechanical alarm clock (off E-Bay) from circa 50's. It keeps going and going and going. I also have a quad-speed CD drive from stone age - it, too, refuses to die - it's still my backup drive if all else fails, that thing has so far worked with every mainboard and every OS i threw it at.

And also do something about "chromed" metal things that are shiny and good looking - until they are out of the package, which is when the chrome starts to peel off and the thing starts to rust faster than one can watch it.

Do i need to mention hand tools that won't survive their very first usage?

And those "solar powered" pocket calculators that stop working because the battery (!) is empty and the solar cell is not even connected to anything..?? Got a dozen of those at my office.

And don't get me started on "empty" ink jet cartridges that are still half full, THAT disease exists worldwide.

Best regards.....

Thanh

[surayu]

Yes pleanty of clever businessman out there, i have been told by Sony-Ericsson that the reason why my previous mobile broke off was because i was using it, so my fault then, it's a bit like if you buy a new car and after a month all doors fall on the floor and they tell you that is your fault because you were using the doors of your car, also i have been to both the 2 big service centers they have here in BKK for a software related problem and the best suggestion they could came off with was to go to Pantip and let one of the "pirates" fix it as they couldn't do the servicing for their own products.....great!

[Emeritus]

hhiser, you may not have to re-invent the wheel. I believe there already is a consumer protection organisation in Thailand:

old.consumerthai.org/cms/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1465&Itemid=37

I also believe that Thailand has consumer protection laws:

www.amchamthailand.org/asp/view_doc.asp?DocCID=1055

[GungaDin]

6 replies out of 80,000 members, Amazing Thailand!

[surayu]

hhiser, you may not have to re-invent the wheel. I believe there already is a consumer protection organisation in Thailand:

old.consumerthai.org/cms/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1465&Itemid=37

I also believe that Thailand has consumer protection laws:

www.amchamthailand.org/asp/view_doc.asp?DocCID=1055

does anybody else get the feeling that some organisation exist just as a way to give some friends/relative a monthly salary and nothing else or is just me?

[ignis]

For me it is air filter pumps, I have 6 on 24/7, 2 larger ones cost 4,600 baht each yet they last 1 or 2 weeks over the warranty.!! and fans forget how many new motors they have all had.

Some things are good.......... I bought a new DVD Ram writer in the UK at 'Dabbs' came here 6 months later with my PC and the writer failed, took it to LG here with the receipt from the UK they changed it no questions asked for a brand new one, that was 6 years ago and I use it every day

[hhiser]

Actually the item you listed was probably destroyed by sand in the water rather than being defective. Take a look at what Tesco is selling these days in there hardware departments - is that an example of what they currently sell in Europe?

Well first if they were destroyed by sand in the water, I would have noticed sand in the water. It is not hard to spot, especially when you stockpile water to be used in times of power outages. Significant sand in the water would be present at the bottom of any container used to hold water. It is not. Second even if I had significant sand in the water, I would have to open the taps for a large portion of the day to wear at the plastic gaskets in just 2 years. Third I never compared the spigots I bought with ones sold in Europe or America.

Thank you for your suggestion though always appreciated!

[filingaccount]

It is actually as simple as providing the general consumer what the consumer wants in any specific region.

If there is high enough demand for certain (quality, probably higher priced) products, then retail outlets will carry those products.

If there is a demand for cheap and cheaper goods, as is the case in Thailand, that is exactly what you will find in abundance.

I can give you a decent example.

Normally I buy Panasonic Oxyride AAA batteries (70 baht or whatever they cost for 2 pieces).

Today, however I happened to pass by a stall selling cheap electronics and tools. As it happened they were selling AAA batteries, 4 pieces for the unbeatable price of 7 Baht (3 packs of 4 costs you 20 Baht). I decided to buy a pack and try it our in my wireless keyboard.

The cheap batteries works fine, but the question is for how long.

Now, I have no illusions about getting something better than what I paid for, but one can always try just for the heck of it.

I guess it is generally expected that thing break quickly here in Thailand, but as things are cheap there is really no need for a service and repairs department. The general idea is just to "buy a new one".

Another great example is "low energy" light bulbs.

Sylvania mini lynx mini twister something. You'd expect the bulbs to last the 5 years promised. But a year in, from 17 bulbs, all 17 have expired. I called Sylvania about this problem and asked what could be done (I kept receipts and detailed records as it were for my new condo), and the answer was plainly: "Nothing. If you don't like, don't buy again."

I buy the Phillips equivalent now, and so far none of them have broken. They cost a little bit more, but it is of no issue as they work...

I guess the general message is, vote with your wallet.

If anyone is interested we could setup an informal group that tests and reports on newly purchased goods. This could be done via a simple blog to begin with. I could maintain the blog and hand out editor accounts to whomever wants one. The products "reviewed" could be anything as long as some ground rules are set (eg. no product bashing).

[Thanh-BKK]

Hi.

I can't say anything about the energy saving bulbs but be very cautious about those no-name batteries. I have had plenty of electronic devices that had fallen prey to those - they start leaking after a rather short period of time, even when they don't appear empty yet, and by doing so they massively corrode the contacts of whatever device you got them in.

Check periodically how the batteries look like, even when the device is still working. If the battery appears to bulge or to grow "warts" (for lack of a better word) throw them out quickly.

I am referring to those "Super Power", "Super Heavy Duty" or "Panasonig" batteries (notice the "g" in the end! Also available as "Pemesonic") that you can usually find at nick-nack shops or stalls along the street, a pack of four for 10 Baht or less.

Don't risk your keyboard for saving a few Baht on batteries. You can get cheap good quality ones as well, for example at Tesco Lotus, the brand is "Tesco Alkaline", they are actually made by Panasonic but re-branded and cheaper.

Best regards....

Thanh

[lopburi3]

Actually the item you listed was probably destroyed by sand in the water rather than being defective. Take a look at what Tesco is selling these days in there hardware departments - is that an example of what they currently sell in Europe?

Well first if they were destroyed by sand in the water, I would have noticed sand in the water. It is not hard to spot, especially when you stockpile water to be used in times of power outages. Significant sand in the water would be present at the bottom of any container used to hold water. It is not. Second even if I had significant sand in the water, I would have to open the taps for a large portion of the day to wear at the plastic gaskets in just 2 years. Third I never compared the spigots I bought with ones sold in Europe or America.

Thank you for your suggestion though always appreciated!

Actually I still believe it is sand/grit. I am talking about microscopic particles that scratch the ceramic valve of current taps - not something you would normally notice. They work great until they develop a scratch and then they are history. The old rubber washer could compensate (you tightened down on it) but these either work or they do not work. I live in Bangkok and still have enough grit in water to case such problems.

[petedk]

Five minutes ago I was going to write about the problems we've had with our Carrier air condition but when I looked at it I noticed another problem that needed to be fixed!

We bought the air con about 5 years ago and have had nothing but problems since. Every two or three months we called the technician to fix it because it simply stopped working. They changed this and that and each time the cost was about 4000 to 5000 baht. About 3 months ago they finally found out that the fan on the compressor was too small ( a mistake in the design as the technician said). I complained like hel_l but still had to pay for a new fan.

After they fixed that problem (yes it seems to work now) the swing seems to stop working and doesn't open.

The air condition cost around 30,000 baht but we have spent just as much if not more on reparations over the 5 years.

[webfact]

IMHO this thread belongs into the "General Topics".

Trust that will draw more attention!

... just a thought

[hhiser]

IMHO this thread belongs into the "General Topics".

Trust that will draw more attention!

... just a thought

Good idea, my first topic had no idea where to put it!

[Pierrot]

Actually, it's the Japanese who teach us quality as we know it today.

In 1990, it was already clear that one day Toyota will take over GM as the biggest car manufacturer. If you want to understand why and how the Japanese completely changed (for the better) our understanding of quality from manufacturing to our every day life, this book is a must read :

THE MACHINE THAT CHANGED THE WORLD

When The Machine That Changed the World was first published in 1990, Toyota was half the size of General Motors. Today Toyota is passing GM as the world's largest auto maker and is the most consistently successful global enterprise of the past fifty years. This management classic was the first book to reveal Toyota's lean production system that is the basis for its enduring success. Now reissued with a new Foreword and Afterword, Machine contrasts two fundamentally different business systems -- lean versus mass, two very different ways of thinking about how humans work together to create value. Based on the largest and most thorough study ever undertaken of any industry -- MIT's five-year, fourteen-country International Motor Vehicle Program -- this book describes the entire managerial system of lean production

http://www.amazon.com/Machine-That-Changed...n/dp/0060974176

[doggie888888]

Good idea!

If the "Sale Of Goods Act" (UK) was introduced here, 95% of Thai businesses would go to the wall in 3 months.

Now, I only buy goods from the chains who have a returns policy. Tesco, Car4, HomePro et al.

Mom & Pop shops, can go to the dunny.

Including farang owned and operated businesses and other foreign rip off merchants, who should know better, but deliver the lower standards whilst hiding behind their "white face" and pretending to promise "European Standards".

[klikster]

Actually, it's the Japanese who teach us quality as we know it today.

In 1990, it was already clear that one day Toyota will take over GM as the biggest car manufacturer. If you want to understand why and how the Japanese completely changed (for the better) our understanding of quality from manufacturing to our every day life, this book is a must read :

THE MACHINE THAT CHANGED THE WORLD

When The Machine That Changed the World was first published in 1990, Toyota was half the size of General Motors. Today Toyota is passing GM as the world's largest auto maker and is the most consistently successful global enterprise of the past fifty years. This management classic was the first book to reveal Toyota's lean production system that is the basis for its enduring success. Now reissued with a new Foreword and Afterword, Machine contrasts two fundamentally different business systems -- lean versus mass, two very different ways of thinking about how humans work together to create value. Based on the largest and most thorough study ever undertaken of any industry -- MIT's five-year, fourteen-country International Motor Vehicle Program -- this book describes the entire managerial system of lean production

http://www.amazon.com/Machine-That-Changed...n/dp/0060974176

One story says that Toyota's "lean" system was actually refined from observations made by a high level manager after he visited a U.S. supermarket ..