Pilot Error Blamed For Thai Crash

[Haydn]

Pilot error blamed for Thai crash

BBC News 14:03 GMT, Tuesday, 2 June 2009 15:03 UK

Alex Collins and Bethan Jones were among 89 people who died

A report on a plane crash in Thailand in which two Welsh students were killed has blamed pilot error and fatigue.

Alex Collins, from Maesteg in Bridgend county, and his girlfriend Bethan Jones, from Porth in the Rhondda, were among more than 80 people who died.

The One-Two-Go jet crashed trying to land in bad weather at Phuket airport in September 2007.

A Thai civil aviation report said there had been a lack of coordination between the pilot and co-pilot.

It also pointed to a failure to follow standard operating procedure after an aborted landing, failure to operate cockpit equipment properly and a sudden change in weather conditions.

Last July, One-Two-Go planes were grounded for 30 days by the Thai authorities.

In April, the airline was added to the European Commission's blacklist of operators which are banned from the EU because of safety concerns.

The report urged that One-Two-Go intensifies flight and emergency training for its pilots and adjusts schedules so pilots and cabin staff get adequate rest.

Poor visibility

Other recommendations included upgrading safety management and encouraging personnel to report irregularities.

The report said that Airports of Thailand, a partly state-owned company that operates most of the country's airports, should expand and upgrade the runway at Phuket airport or improve landing systems that guide aircraft in poor visibility.

It also said the airport's layout should be altered to allow quicker access by fire and rescue teams.

The Welsh pair, both 22, were a few days into a round-the-world trip to celebrate their graduation.

They met while they were studying at Cardiff University and had been saving for and planning the trip for more than a year.

[bravingbangkok]

It's all smiles and teddy bears flying an airplane on a perfect day, then try landing one in a tropical storm with horrific wind shear.

This guy was probably a good pilot on a nice day, when it came to making quick do or die decisions and being able to do 20 things at one time as well as fly the plane, I am sorry he just could not hack it and that is why they crashed. As the report says, they should have gone around or diverted to another airport and they should probably turn on the wind shear measure which was actually off and was in the process of being replaced with an updated version.

My belief is AOT is to blame for this one, the guy clearly not going to make it and had already tried and failed. Phuket is a shitty runway as well.

[bkkjames]

It's all smiles and teddy bears flying an airplane on a perfect day, then try landing one in a tropical storm with horrific wind shear.

This guy was probably a good pilot on a nice day, when it came to making quick do or die decisions and being able to do 20 things at one time as well as fly the plane, I am sorry he just could not hack it and that is why they crashed. As the report says, they should have gone around or diverted to another airport and they should probably turn on the wind shear measure which was actually off and was in the process of being replaced with an updated version.

My belief is AOT is to blame for this one, the guy clearly not going to make it and had already tried and failed. Phuket is a shitty runway as well.

Why would AOT be to blame for this? It's like saying they didn't push the go-around button for him. He chose to try to land in the shitty conditions and did not divert to his alternate. Fruck all to do with AOT IMO.

[F1fanatic]

Which organisation made the report?

A pilot relies on the info he's receiving from traffic controllers about conditions. Did he receive good or bad information?

Having said that if (as previous posts imply) he tried to land and conditions were so bad he couldn't, but decided to try again anyway.....!!!

Why didn't traffic controllers tell him to divert to another airport if conditions were so bad?

Edited June 3, 2009 by F1fanatic

[Old Man River]

I remember in the original thread on this, someone posting a link to a forum for pilots. I read on this forum where several pilots knew this pilot and said that it was well known that One Two Go was pushing its pilots to fly to where they were all completely exhausted. Now, the conclusion is pilot error and fatigue. It kind of misses the whole point as to why the pilot was fatigued.

[bkkjames]

Which organisation made the report?

A pilot relies on the info he's receiving from traffic controllers about conditions. Did he receive good or bad information?

I wonder if what you are suggesting is the case, then why has 12Go not filed suit against AOT?

[asia_pilot]

Why do you blame AOT ? No Airtraffic Controller will tell a Flight Crew to Go Around or to divert to an alternate Airport. The Captain is the Pilot in Command and he has the authority in what he wants to do. The controllers are just there to 'assist' and 'help' him. They might could have pointed out the situation, but I am sure the Pilot knew about it himself.

[F1fanatic]

Which organisation made the report?

A pilot relies on the info he's receiving from traffic controllers about conditions. Did he receive good or bad information?

I wonder if what you are suggesting is the case, then why has 12Go not filed suit against AOT?

Early days yet. But I still want to know who issued the report.

[ratio]

Once going into Phuket the pilot stopped the landing circled saying it was to stormy or words like that and landed 20 min later this has also happened to us going to Bankok on our last trip.Since talking to a trainer of pilots ,most problems come from relying on auto pilot.If the strip is flooded or storms any bad situation can happen.

[bravingbangkok]

It's all smiles and teddy bears flying an airplane on a perfect day, then try landing one in a tropical storm with horrific wind shear.

This guy was probably a good pilot on a nice day, when it came to making quick do or die decisions and being able to do 20 things at one time as well as fly the plane, I am sorry he just could not hack it and that is why they crashed. As the report says, they should have gone around or diverted to another airport and they should probably turn on the wind shear measure which was actually off and was in the process of being replaced with an updated version.

My belief is AOT is to blame for this one, the guy clearly not going to make it and had already tried and failed. Phuket is a shitty runway as well.

Why would AOT be to blame for this? It's like saying they didn't push the go-around button for him. He chose to try to land in the shitty conditions and did not divert to his alternate. Fruck all to do with AOT IMO.

Because their ground instrument landing system was way below par and I am sure it was not even working at the time. Having a report of wind shear at a range of 0-20metres above the runway is very important, especially in conditions such as that day. I think there was something wrong with the glide slope as well.

[bravingbangkok]

+ ATC should advise the pilot and I am sorry the conditions at which the airport was in the plane should not have been allowed to land or even attempt a landing.

one2go = low cost airlines = save money at all costs = land asap = try not to go around = landing at another airport and diverting costs more money = delays = costs more money = etc etc etc

I am not saying the airline was not to blame either because they should of had some sort of practice in place for these situations.

The pilots were missing a lot of information and the ATC are there to help them, they failed as well.

[bravingbangkok]

Once going into Phuket the pilot stopped the landing circled saying it was to stormy or words like that and landed 20 min later this has also happened to us going to Bankok on our last trip.Since talking to a trainer of pilots ,most problems come from relying on auto pilot.If the strip is flooded or storms any bad situation can happen.

Are you saying that planes are landed on auto-pilot ? They follow the glide slop on auto-pilot but will take control in the last minute. The pilot was in control of this plane when he landed it.

[bravingbangkok]

I wanted to confirm but the wind-shear detection-equipment was not working properly on that day. This is a vital instrument to have when landing a plane in bad weather, it may have been the pilot did not receive the wind shear alert until ti was too late, the system might of had a delay who knows...the Thai authorities have done a good job sweeping that one under the carpet...no law suit there then.

You do not ask a batter to go onto the field with a straw do you ?

[bravingbangkok]

Which organisation made the report?

A pilot relies on the info he's receiving from traffic controllers about conditions. Did he receive good or bad information?

I wonder if what you are suggesting is the case, then why has 12Go not filed suit against AOT?

Early days yet. But I still want to know who issued the report.

The phrase under the table springs to mind !

[Livinginexile]

I have heard that the pilots of these Asian budget airlines are pressured not to abort landings and circle around again because it saves fuel.

As a matter of fact they get a bonus if they can use less fuel than is alocated for the flight.

[bravingbangkok]

I have heard that the pilots of these Asian budget airlines are pressured not to abort landings and circle around again because it saves fuel.

As a matter of fact they get a bonus if they can use less fuel than is alocated for the flight.

It would not surprise me, the general public know very little about these budget airlines.

For example say a plane has to have a certain(certain systems and parts have different flying hours checks allowances) system checked every 300hours of flying time, that very system should actually be check every 200-250hours but these low cost airlines take the full 300hours. major airlines would probably do it every 200hours.

I never fly low cost airlines and I never fly airlines who I know are in financial difficulty, financial difficult means bumping the 200 hours too 300 hours....sometimes even more as I expect one2go have and do do on a regular basis hence them being black listed from European air space and airports.

SEE http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaska_Airlines_Flight_261

Edited June 3, 2009 by bravingbangkok