How Long Before We All Get Kicked Out?

[Jimjim]

You always see different officials coming out with things like this now and again, and they are soon shouted down by other officials. There are those who want to be tough like the article you cite, and frankly, it is a common occurrence. Don't go overboard with the interpretation. You cannot own property as a foreigner, and using a company to do so has always been a loophole. I have also heard many times that using a company merely to buy property should not be allowed, but it's been going on for a while. Anyway, feel uncomfortable, but unless it applies to you, do you have anything other to worry about beyond just wanting to be paranoid?

Edited June 8, 2009 by Jimjim

[samran]

Your comments really do not deserve a response. And you still refuse to compare the situation in 1999 to now.....wonder why?

But for those who are interested, this link might be instructive:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/forum/viewtopic...f=29&t=2120

This is a fact........interpret it any way you want.

And this in contrast to the past, when Thai women who married foreigners were not allowed to own any property at all. So, in this case it's gotten better, not worse. So sorry it doesn't fit your argument this time. Try again. Oh, and this article is about a law that has already been in existence, and it's there to be abused by the officials, but frankly I think many can attest here (perhaps they don't want to) that they have had no problem giving money to their wives and then having the wife buy property. It happens way too often to be controlled, and is one of those huge gray areas that can be exploited either way.

In the past you purchased property via a company.......that situation changed (two years ago?) causing major problems. I do not remember a Thai official from the Land Dept. ever coming out and publicly proclaiming that the property can and will be seized.....that is a major change in attitude. As I said, interpret it as you like.........statements like that, however, are making many of us very uncomfortable.....not just me.

the law has always been clear, if you are married to a foreigner that you must sign a declaration that the money is hers. Of course, this has always been abused by foreigners.

[samran]

You always see different officials coming out with things like this now and again, and they are soon shouted down by other officials. There are those who want to be tough like the article you cite, and frankly, it is a common occurrence. Don't go overboard with the interpretation. You cannot own property as a foreigner, and using a company to do so has always been a loophole. I have also heard many times that using a company merely to buy property should not be allowed, but it's been going on for a while. Anyway, feel uncomfortable, but unless it applies to you, do you have anything other to worry about beyond just wanting to be paranoid?

I actually feel for the politicians on this one. A number of policy makers I've spoken to in the past have said that there is nothing more they'd like to do that to offer certain forms of foreign ownership of land.

Problem is though, that the general public (like in most countries) are scared to death of foregin ownership, and there is a real fear that if a foreigner bought the land, a big fence would be put around it and no one allowed in.

Of course, you hear these stories all over the world. Down in NZ, there was a big fuss a few years back as hollywood stars bought up chunks of farmland up near Queenstown, and a similar fear of outsiders.

But there you go....

[Moonrakers]

And to think that this whole thread was born from the recent changes in border run regulations, the same changes that are likely to have NO EFFECT whatsoever on the vast majority of foreigners yet spark pages of "they don't want us here" type comments.

Personally, I find it all quite easy and did so even before I got my Non-O through marriage. Vientiane may not be my first choice of places to stay for a couple of days but once every 3 or even 6 months is not such a bad thing and certainly better than multiple trips across the border.

Sure it would be nice for it to be a bit easier. Personally I would like to see my wife's income taken into consideration applying for extension of stay although I already qualify and so won't be spitting out any dummies there. It'd be nice also if there where fewer hoops to jump through when getting a WP etc, but then hey ho I have a WP despite the obstacles before me and so do xxx thousands of others here.

Are we all going to get kicked out? I really can't see it and see no reason why people get so worried, as mentioned before the recent changes should have no effect and many of those complaining either seem to be paranoid conspiracy theorists or just those that don't understand the options that are available to them.

[Soutpeel]

the law has always been clear, if you are married to a foreigner that you must sign a declaration that the money is hers. Of course, this has always been abused by foreigners.

.....Of course one would have to wonder who is abusing who in this situation, seems to me Thai national is on a win-win and the farang the loser if things go wrong...

[samran]

the law has always been clear, if you are married to a foreigner that you must sign a declaration that the money is hers. Of course, this has always been abused by foreigners.

.....Of course one would have to wonder who is abusing who in this situation, seems to me Thai national is on a win-win and the farang the loser if things go wrong...

to the extent that the declaration is a legal document, you are right. If anything goes wrong, you are screwed, in the sense that someone may be acting as your proxy.

But then again, I always though leases on the land were the go to ensure you had the legal right to live in it...

A lawyer friend once also told me, it is illegal for a foreginer to own the land. It is legal for the foreginer to own the house upon which it stands. Seemed to me like a sensible form of insurance...

[tomahawk]

I have not witnessed or experienced any of this mistreatment by Thais or Thai government. But apparently others have. Is this because of where they live? Perhaps it is like that in Bangkok. I rarely go there so I don't know. People are always very friendly and respectful here towards me. Even the police. Really I have to admit I don't know what OP is talking about. Perhaps he has an attitude which is offensive to people. I am not saying this as I do not know the perrson. I am only trying to understand why some farangs have problems and others do not. One thing I am sure of is that Thailand is not about to kick out the foreigners. I think that idea is ridiculous and found no evidence to support this theory in this whole discussion.

[Geekfreaklover]

I have not witnessed or experienced any of this mistreatment by Thais or Thai government. But apparently others have. Is this because of where they live? Perhaps it is like that in Bangkok. I rarely go there so I don't know. People are always very friendly and respectful here towards me. Even the police. Really I have to admit I don't know what OP is talking about. Perhaps he has an attitude which is offensive to people. I am not saying this as I do not know the perrson. I am only trying to understand why some farangs have problems and others do not. One thing I am sure of is that Thailand is not about to kick out the foreigners. I think that idea is ridiculous and found no evidence to support this theory in this whole discussion.

I think you may be onto something here. I lived in Isaan for many years, running a business. The department of labour who issue work permits were very easy to deal with in Surin. Immigration were very helpful. Tax offices and amphur offices were easy to deal with. I won a custody case in the courts there. I since moved to korat, which were slightly stricter and now live in Bangkok where the system seems more difficult and timely. I can not tell if that is due to passage of time and new regulations. Or to do with the location.

I agree that if you meet the required criteria then you should not have a problem anywhere in Thailand. But it seems the more rural areas are more accomadating. Perhaps this is a sign that they appreciate the wealth that foreginers bring into the area more.

[samran]

I have not witnessed or experienced any of this mistreatment by Thais or Thai government. But apparently others have. Is this because of where they live? Perhaps it is like that in Bangkok. I rarely go there so I don't know. People are always very friendly and respectful here towards me. Even the police. Really I have to admit I don't know what OP is talking about. Perhaps he has an attitude which is offensive to people. I am not saying this as I do not know the perrson. I am only trying to understand why some farangs have problems and others do not. One thing I am sure of is that Thailand is not about to kick out the foreigners. I think that idea is ridiculous and found no evidence to support this theory in this whole discussion.

I think you may be onto something here. I lived in Isaan for many years, running a business. The department of labour who issue work permits were very easy to deal with in Surin. Immigration were very helpful. Tax offices and amphur offices were easy to deal with. I won a custody case in the courts there. I since moved to korat, which were slightly stricter and now live in Bangkok where the system seems more difficult and timely. I can not tell if that is due to passage of time and new regulations. Or to do with the location.

I agree that if you meet the required criteria then you should not have a problem anywhere in Thailand. But it seems the more rural areas are more accomadating. Perhaps this is a sign that they appreciate the wealth that foreginers bring into the area more.

I suspect it is a case of living in the country, everyone tends to know each other, and treats each other more friendly. Isn't this the same world over? Sounds like you are an agreeable person.

Move to the big smoke, well everything is a bit more impersonal, but I dare say you'll 'survive'......

[Jingthing]

While I can see there are some troubling signs, such as the announcement that real estate bought by spouses of foreigners is under threat, I think the most serious threat to our continued existence in Thailand is the political stability situation. Should it deteriorate much further it isn't hard to image scenarios where we would either be booted out (for our own good) and/or mostly want to leave willingly. I doubt there were too many non-immigrant expats in Atlanta in the early 1860's ...

Edited June 8, 2009 by Jingthing

[Geekfreaklover]

I have not witnessed or experienced any of this mistreatment by Thais or Thai government. But apparently others have. Is this because of where they live? Perhaps it is like that in Bangkok. I rarely go there so I don't know. People are always very friendly and respectful here towards me. Even the police. Really I have to admit I don't know what OP is talking about. Perhaps he has an attitude which is offensive to people. I am not saying this as I do not know the perrson. I am only trying to understand why some farangs have problems and others do not. One thing I am sure of is that Thailand is not about to kick out the foreigners. I think that idea is ridiculous and found no evidence to support this theory in this whole discussion.

I think you may be onto something here. I lived in Isaan for many years, running a business. The department of labour who issue work permits were very easy to deal with in Surin. Immigration were very helpful. Tax offices and amphur offices were easy to deal with. I won a custody case in the courts there. I since moved to korat, which were slightly stricter and now live in Bangkok where the system seems more difficult and timely. I can not tell if that is due to passage of time and new regulations. Or to do with the location.

I agree that if you meet the required criteria then you should not have a problem anywhere in Thailand. But it seems the more rural areas are more accomadating. Perhaps this is a sign that they appreciate the wealth that foreginers bring into the area more.

I suspect it is a case of living in the country, everyone tends to know each other, and treats each other more friendly. Isn't this the same world over? Sounds like you are an agreeable person.

Move to the big smoke, well everything is a bit more impersonal, but I dare say you'll 'survive'......

Yes. I've been living in the smoke (BKK) for alomst a year now. Much prefer it. Grew up in London so no biggy. On my soi there are a mix of Thais. The Isaaners seem to never work, sit outside gossip. The Thai Chinese are friendly and spend most of the time working or cleaning their cars. The Bangkok or central Thais seem the most friendly of the bunch. I think most Thais wouldn't have a clue about the restrictions with immigration, working, land ownership that farangs face. Why should they?

[Oberkommando]

My two daughters have blond hair and blue eyes, and if you dropped them into Sweden or Denmark, they wouldn't look any different to the natives. Oh, and they are Thai citizens, and enjoy the full rights accorded to Thai citizens.

"Enjoy the full rights."

You make it sound as if Thailand is a country that actually values freedom of speech and free, critical thinking.

[samran]

My two daughters have blond hair and blue eyes, and if you dropped them into Sweden or Denmark, they wouldn't look any different to the natives. Oh, and they are Thai citizens, and enjoy the full rights accorded to Thai citizens.

"Enjoy the full rights."

You make it sound as if Thailand is a country that actually values freedom of speech and free, critical thinking.

did I say that? Or you just reading mistakenly into things?

In terms of rights, I dare say, somewhat sadly, my daughters, because of their looks, will always enjoy more rights in Thailand than most other Thai's. Or should we all act like all downtrodden helpless so and so's.....???

[bravingbangkok]

I have not witnessed or experienced any of this mistreatment by Thais or Thai government. But apparently others have. Is this because of where they live? Perhaps it is like that in Bangkok. I rarely go there so I don't know. People are always very friendly and respectful here towards me. Even the police. Really I have to admit I don't know what OP is talking about. Perhaps he has an attitude which is offensive to people. I am not saying this as I do not know the perrson. I am only trying to understand why some farangs have problems and others do not. One thing I am sure of is that Thailand is not about to kick out the foreigners. I think that idea is ridiculous and found no evidence to support this theory in this whole discussion.

I think you may be onto something here. I lived in Isaan for many years, running a business. The department of labour who issue work permits were very easy to deal with in Surin. Immigration were very helpful. Tax offices and amphur offices were easy to deal with. I won a custody case in the courts there. I since moved to korat, which were slightly stricter and now live in Bangkok where the system seems more difficult and timely. I can not tell if that is due to passage of time and new regulations. Or to do with the location.

I agree that if you meet the required criteria then you should not have a problem anywhere in Thailand. But it seems the more rural areas are more accomadating. Perhaps this is a sign that they appreciate the wealth that foreginers bring into the area more.

I suspect it is a case of living in the country, everyone tends to know each other, and treats each other more friendly. Isn't this the same world over? Sounds like you are an agreeable person.

Move to the big smoke, well everything is a bit more impersonal, but I dare say you'll 'survive'......

Yes. I've been living in the smoke (BKK) for alomst a year now. Much prefer it. Grew up in London so no biggy. On my soi there are a mix of Thais. The Isaaners seem to never work, sit outside gossip. The Thai Chinese are friendly and spend most of the time working or cleaning their cars. The Bangkok or central Thais seem the most friendly of the bunch. I think most Thais wouldn't have a clue about the restrictions with immigration, working, land ownership that farangs face. Why should they?

I like the point about the average Thai not having a clue about immigration policy and business rules for foreigners, judging from some peoples comments they probably think all Thai's are given a yearly brief on updated farang rules, what we can do and what we cannot do and what to look out for and a number to report us hahaha

Edited June 8, 2009 by bravingbangkok

[bravingbangkok]

I get the down points of Thailand and I have traveled well enough to know that this is the same everywhere you go. What I cannot understand is when people honestly think that the Thai gov is out to get us ????

The west and Thailand have a long history together and I do not see why they would suddenly throw us out, I put it to you that if you have been thrown out or are in the future, did you deserve it ? probably yes. There are hundreds of things that annoy me about this country but I have never felt like everyone loathes me as I walk down the street, of course you are going to get the odd patriotic Thai but they do not control the country thank God, the big man does and he along with the rest of them have a very good personal relationship with the west, always have.

Yes there are a lot of problems in Thailand and yes we are often on the wrong end of fairness but in no way are the Thai's thinking up some evil scheme as we chat away on TV to throw us out and claim all our assets. That theory really is crazy

Couldn't agree more.

Totally disagree.........you said it is "the same everywhere you go." No, it is not the same and that is why so many expats have left Thailand for better places and others are contemplating it.

The bulk of the visa/business rule changes that have taken place in Thailand over the past ten years are based on xenophobia and not security.

At times it does seem like somebody is making changes to the system in order to "throw us out."

Most recently a high ranking govt. official proclaimed that it is illegal for a foreign spouse of a Thai wife to use his money to buy property (land, house, etc)........he went on to say that such property could be seized by the government.

Is that part of a plan to seize our assets?

In no other country would such a policy stand. If that happened in the United States, a collective class action lawsuit would ensue and the person who made the statement would no longer be employed by the government.

How long before we all get kicked out? I don't think there will ever be a time when "all of us will be kicked out." But Thailand is no longer expat friendly and the situation continues to get worse each year.

People like Bravingbangkok and Spysee are selective when it comes to looking at all the facts. Throw facts back at them and they either disappear or make even more illogical or badly thought out comments.

whose a big man behind his computer then. CR you are a waste of my and most people's time so just hush and keep the personal comments to the kiddies section of TV.

Edited June 8, 2009 by bravingbangkok

[bravingbangkok]

Your comments really do not deserve a response. And you still refuse to compare the situation in 1999 to now.....wonder why?

But for those who are interested, this link might be instructive:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/forum/viewtopic...f=29&t=2120

This is a fact........interpret it any way you want.

And this in contrast to the past, when Thai women who married foreigners were not allowed to own any property at all. So, in this case it's gotten better, not worse. So sorry it doesn't fit your argument this time. Try again. Oh, and this article is about a law that has already been in existence, and it's there to be abused by the officials, but frankly I think many can attest here (perhaps they don't want to) that they have had no problem giving money to their wives and then having the wife buy property. It happens way too often to be controlled, and is one of those huge gray areas that can be exploited either way.

In the past you purchased property via a company.......that situation changed (two years ago?) causing major problems. I do not remember a Thai official from the Land Dept. ever coming out and publicly proclaiming that the property can and will be seized.....that is a major change in attitude. As I said, interpret it as you like.........statements like that, however, are making many of us very uncomfortable.....not just me.

Look JR it is pointless in listing fact after fact after fact just to prove what we already know and that is that you think Thai's are out to get us, that is your opinion and you are perfectly entitled to have it.

I for one do not have the time to argue over this topic as from my view point I continue to make lots of money, be accepted socially and able to maintain a relationship with many Thai's. Now if you cannot seem to do any of that then maybe you should think about leaving.

Best wishes, BravingBangkok

[Soutpeel]

Judging from some peoples comments they probably think all Thai's are given a yearly brief on updated farang rules, what we can do and what we cannot do and what to look out for and a number to report us hahaha

Didnt you know ?...its true...every BG in Pattaya, Nana and Patpong has a 24 hours toll free number they can call...

Edited June 8, 2009 by Soutpeel

[JR Texas]

People like Bravingbangkok and Spysee are selective when it comes to looking at all the facts. Throw facts back at them and they either disappear or make even more illogical or badly thought out comments.

whose a big man behind his computer then. CR you are a waste of my and most people's time so just hush and keep the personal comments to the kiddies section of TV.

From JR Texas to Bravingbangkok: Who is CR? If you meant JR Texas, I was not the one who originally made this comment: "People like Bravingbangkok and Spysee are selective when it comes to looking at all the facts. Throw facts back at them and they either disappear or make even more illogical or badly thought out comments."

[bravingbangkok]

People like Bravingbangkok and Spysee are selective when it comes to looking at all the facts. Throw facts back at them and they either disappear or make even more illogical or badly thought out comments.

whose a big man behind his computer then. CR you are a waste of my and most people's time so just hush and keep the personal comments to the kiddies section of TV.

From JR Texas to Bravingbangkok: Who is CR? If you meant JR Texas, I was not the one who originally made this comment: "People like Bravingbangkok and Spysee are selective when it comes to looking at all the facts. Throw facts back at them and they either disappear or make even more illogical or badly thought out comments."

Sorry I meant 'CAF', Sorry bro my apologies.

So let me reiterate CAF is the muppet and not JR Tex

[bravingbangkok]

Judging from some peoples comments they probably think all Thai's are given a yearly brief on updated farang rules, what we can do and what we cannot do and what to look out for and a number to report us hahaha

Didnt you know ?...its true...every BG in Pattaya, Nana and Patpong has a 24 hours toll free number they can call...

and an instruction book on how to fake a suicide.

[CrossBones]

Well we all know that Thailand is a bit of a mickey-mouse country with an inflated ego and most of us have learnt that the powers that be in this country despise ordinary farangs. We have come to accept that unless we are especially wealthy our presence here is mildly tolerated. Thai culture teaches the uneducated locals that they are superior to us, and the educated Thais resent us because they know in all honesty that this is not true. Perhaps they have an inferiority complex.. but one thing for sure is that in Thailand they most certainly call the shots and stick together for their own interested so in that respect when we are in Thailand we are most certainly at the bottom of the barrel.

I am wondering how long it will be before we are evicted from this country permanently, and what will happen if we lose the right to own condos and the right to be married to a Thai.

I say this seriously because I dont think its too far fetched that things may actually come to this eventually.

With an attitude like that why are you here in the first place? If you contribute to this society and are part of the solution not the problem you will find Thai people are very accepting including the high ranking officials who happen to be my dear friends and employers and they don't treat you any differently than anyone else. Piss one off though and... well it's the same anywhere including the USA.

Thai's don't want us helping them with their social problems they see it as a bit of an insult. Its best not to mention and social problems, politics etc

[Soutpeel]

Judging from some peoples comments they probably think all Thai's are given a yearly brief on updated farang rules, what we can do and what we cannot do and what to look out for and a number to report us hahaha

Didnt you know ?...its true...every BG in Pattaya, Nana and Patpong has a 24 hours toll free number they can call...

and an instruction book on how to fake a suicide.

+ "The Idiots guide to Sin Sot"

[samran]

Well we all know that Thailand is a bit of a mickey-mouse country with an inflated ego and most of us have learnt that the powers that be in this country despise ordinary farangs. We have come to accept that unless we are especially wealthy our presence here is mildly tolerated. Thai culture teaches the uneducated locals that they are superior to us, and the educated Thais resent us because they know in all honesty that this is not true. Perhaps they have an inferiority complex.. but one thing for sure is that in Thailand they most certainly call the shots and stick together for their own interested so in that respect when we are in Thailand we are most certainly at the bottom of the barrel.

I am wondering how long it will be before we are evicted from this country permanently, and what will happen if we lose the right to own condos and the right to be married to a Thai.

I say this seriously because I dont think its too far fetched that things may actually come to this eventually.

With an attitude like that why are you here in the first place? If you contribute to this society and are part of the solution not the problem you will find Thai people are very accepting including the high ranking officials who happen to be my dear friends and employers and they don't treat you any differently than anyone else. Piss one off though and... well it's the same anywhere including the USA.

Thai's don't want us helping them with their social problems they see it as a bit of an insult. Its best not to mention and social problems, politics etc

tell that to Father Joe down at the Klong Teoy slums, or Senator Meechai, half scottish and Australian educated.

[bravingbangkok]

Judging from some peoples comments they probably think all Thai's are given a yearly brief on updated farang rules, what we can do and what we cannot do and what to look out for and a number to report us hahaha

Didnt you know ?...its true...every BG in Pattaya, Nana and Patpong has a 24 hours toll free number they can call...

and an instruction book on how to fake a suicide.

+ "The Idiots guide to Sin Sot"

A-Z of buffalo illnesses

[bonobo]

The bottom line is that over the last handful of years, there is a perception that Thailand has become less ex-par friendly while other nations in the region have become more ex-pat friendly.  Quite frankly, I think there is valid reasons for that perception, but whether true or not, the perception becomes its own reality.  

So ex-pats need to decide if Thailand still has the benefits which make staying here a better option than moving home or to another country.  If Thailand is the choice, then just comply with new regualtions and go in with your life.  But if the new regualtiosn are too onerous, and if movign to the Philippines or Camodia seems like a better option, then just got for it.

[CrossBones]

I get the down points of Thailand and I have traveled well enough to know that this is the same everywhere you go. What I cannot understand is when people honestly think that the Thai gov is out to get us ????

The west and Thailand have a long history together and I do not see why they would suddenly throw us out, I put it to you that if you have been thrown out or are in the future, did you deserve it ? probably yes. There are hundreds of things that annoy me about this country but I have never felt like everyone loathes me as I walk down the street, of course you are going to get the odd patriotic Thai but they do not control the country thank God, the big man does and he along with the rest of them have a very good personal relationship with the west, always have.

Yes there are a lot of problems in Thailand and yes we are often on the wrong end of fairness but in no way are the Thai's thinking up some evil scheme as we chat away on TV to throw us out and claim all our assets. That theory really is crazy

Well if you have bought your wife a house here, you NOW currently stand in a position where the government might take ownership of it because they could claim she is a nominee for you to own a property. Whether they will do that or not, I don't know - it might just be for people who make significant investments and generally taking the p*ss but the fact that they CAN now do just this should make alarm bells start to ring. You might upset a "respectable" official and suddenly you lose your families assets here. You might try to hob-nob with senior police and government people to get a degree of protection, or you might get a "good job" doing something "useful for the culture" but there's a good chance this will back-fire in your face at some point.

Now if you own a condo, how do you know they wont suddenly change the law and confiscate that from you? I wouldn't feel secure owning a condo right now! If you do own a property don't try renting it out... that could be seen as working here, happened to a mate of mine he didn't get deported as he has the opportunity to pay a "fine". It just takes some big-wig to dream up another "crackdown" and suddenly we lose our condos making condo land-owners suddenly very wealthy.

If you bought an Elite card... you might soon find that is useless, you wont be able to buy land as was "suggested" when they were first sold and you might find you are no longer able to use it for long-stay - I notice the government are now making an issue of the 5 year visas they promised (sold) with the Elite card. Scammed by the government... do they despise the "Elite" ones amongst the most? As far as I can tell the officials are jealous of most of us for having come from countries where we get a better chance than them, whether we are rich and successful, poor and divorced, or retired and drunk at least we started off with a better chance than them (maybe).

You might have married your wife X number of years ago,then the laws change and suddenly you might be in a position where you dont have enough cash in the bank to get the marriage visa and might have to leave your wife and abandon your kids. Who knows what the future holds. All this is done with no notice or warning whatsoever. Im not rich ive got some investment in property and would find it hard to come up with a million baht cash in bank at the drop of a hat.

There are countless examples where the authorities suddenly throw a spanner in the works and try to keep us jumping through hoops, much to their amusement. I admit there are some foreigners here who are pretty bad, and there are good ones, and there are ones who came here for the love or the culture and the people and got burnt too many times and became jaded and bitter.

Basically as far as I can tell, a lot of government policies and laws here are made "on a whim" with very little foresight, planning or consideration of how these might affect Thais and foreigners living or visiting here. Others I believe have been made out of a general dislike of foreigners and foreign culture.. whilst at the same time they like to drive western cars, use western products like computers and adopt our technology and fashions.. that's called western hypocrisy isnt it? (yeah I stole that idea from a Bond film set in north Korea)

All it takes is a change of leadership in the government or department and suddenly everything has changed again.

For those who still think we are welcome here, just go down to the immigration in Chiang Mai, dress well and try to strike up some friendly conversation asking visa advice about how you might stay here legally and see how respectful and friendly they are to you... "YOU GO LAOS"!

I am glad I am not Indian or Black.

.

[CrossBones]

Your comments really do not deserve a response. And you still refuse to compare the situation in 1999 to now.....wonder why?

But for those who are interested, this link might be instructive:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/forum/viewtopic...f=29&t=2120

This is a fact........interpret it any way you want.

And this in contrast to the past, when Thai women who married foreigners were not allowed to own any property at all. So, in this case it's gotten better, not worse. So sorry it doesn't fit your argument this time. Try again. Oh, and this article is about a law that has already been in existence, and it's there to be abused by the officials, but frankly I think many can attest here (perhaps they don't want to) that they have had no problem giving money to their wives and then having the wife buy property. It happens way too often to be controlled, and is one of those huge gray areas that can be exploited either way.

too right. Plus the relaxation on laws that allow dual citizenship, and to pass on Thai nationality no matter where a child is born.

My two daughters have blond hair and blue eyes, and if you dropped them into Sweden or Denmark, they wouldn't look any different to the natives. Oh, and they are Thai citizens, and enjoy the full rights accorded to Thai citizens.

Oh, but yes. This is a government which hates all things farang. So hatefull in fact, that the ladies at the Thai passport office were falling overthemselves to look after them a few weeks ago, and that two people at a time rushed to put on my older daughters shoes at the reclining buddah the other day.

Yep, them hateful thai's.

In their eyes your daughter is half Thai (the good half)!

[samran]

In their eyes your daughter is half Thai (the good half)!

wrong.

I'm "half" Thai. Quotation marks becase my grandfather was born in Shanghai, by my Grandmother is of burmese decent. My fathers side, all Irish.

They are "1/4" Thai. But you couldn't tell they had an asian gene between them. Most people reckon their Thai grandmother is their nanny.

Edited June 8, 2009 by samran

[CrossBones]

In their eyes your daughter is half Thai (the good half)!

wrong.

I'm "half" Thai. Quotation marks becase my grandfather was born in Shanghai, by my Grandmother is of burmese decent. My fathers side, all Irish.

They are "1/4" Thai. But you couldn't tell they had an asian gene between them. Most people reckon their Thai grandmother is their nanny.

You are half Thai... but you still feel like an expat and hang out on expat forum? Is that because you dont feel accepted here as a Thai then? Sorry if I am jumping to conclusions...

Let me put it another way.... when did some government policy make us feel WELCOME here, or when did they do something to make it EASIER for us to come here (no need to mention temporarily giving free tourist visas or waiving enterance fee to national parks)

[JR Texas]

I get the down points of Thailand and I have traveled well enough to know that this is the same everywhere you go. What I cannot understand is when people honestly think that the Thai gov is out to get us ????

The west and Thailand have a long history together and I do not see why they would suddenly throw us out, I put it to you that if you have been thrown out or are in the future, did you deserve it ? probably yes. There are hundreds of things that annoy me about this country but I have never felt like everyone loathes me as I walk down the street, of course you are going to get the odd patriotic Thai but they do not control the country thank God, the big man does and he along with the rest of them have a very good personal relationship with the west, always have.

Yes there are a lot of problems in Thailand and yes we are often on the wrong end of fairness but in no way are the Thai's thinking up some evil scheme as we chat away on TV to throw us out and claim all our assets. That theory really is crazy

Well if you have bought your wife a house here, you NOW currently stand in a position where the government might take ownership of it because they could claim she is a nominee for you to own a property. Whether they will do that or not, I don't know - it might just be for people who make significant investments and generally taking the p*ss but the fact that they CAN now do just this should make alarm bells start to ring. You might upset a "respectable" official and suddenly you lose your families assets here. You might try to hob-nob with senior police and government people to get a degree of protection, or you might get a "good job" doing something "useful for the culture" but there's a good chance this will back-fire in your face at some point.

Now if you own a condo, how do you know they wont suddenly change the law and confiscate that from you? I wouldn't feel secure owning a condo right now! If you do own a property don't try renting it out... that could be seen as working here, happened to a mate of mine he didn't get deported as he has the opportunity to pay a "fine". It just takes some big-wig to dream up another "crackdown" and suddenly we lose our condos making condo land-owners suddenly very wealthy.

If you bought an Elite card... you might soon find that is useless, you wont be able to buy land as was "suggested" when they were first sold and you might find you are no longer able to use it for long-stay - I notice the government are now making an issue of the 5 year visas they promised (sold) with the Elite card. Scammed by the government... do they despise the "Elite" ones amongst the most? As far as I can tell the officials are jealous of most of us for having come from countries where we get a better chance than them, whether we are rich and successful, poor and divorced, or retired and drunk at least we started off with a better chance than them (maybe).

You might have married your wife X number of years ago,then the laws change and suddenly you might be in a position where you dont have enough cash in the bank to get the marriage visa and might have to leave your wife and abandon your kids. Who knows what the future holds. All this is done with no notice or warning whatsoever. Im not rich ive got some investment in property and would find it hard to come up with a million baht cash in bank at the drop of a hat.

There are countless examples where the authorities suddenly throw a spanner in the works and try to keep us jumping through hoops, much to their amusement. I admit there are some foreigners here who are pretty bad, and there are good ones, and there are ones who came here for the love or the culture and the people and got burnt too many times and became jaded and bitter.

Basically as far as I can tell, a lot of government policies and laws here are made "on a whim" with very little foresight, planning or consideration of how these might affect Thais and foreigners living or visiting here. Others I believe have been made out of a general dislike of foreigners and foreign culture.. whilst at the same time they like to drive western cars, use western products like computers and adopt our technology and fashions.. that's called western hypocrisy isnt it? (yeah I stole that idea from a Bond film set in north Korea)

All it takes is a change of leadership in the government or department and suddenly everything has changed again.

For those who still think we are welcome here, just go down to the immigration in Chiang Mai, dress well and try to strike up some friendly conversation asking visa advice about how you might stay here legally and see how respectful and friendly they are to you... "YOU GO LAOS"!

I am glad I am not Indian or Black.

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That says it all.......very insightful......you have reached the core of it. Thanks for that post!