A Much Bigger Problem With Atm Withdrawals

[heybruce]

On the second of June I made a 15000 baht withdrawal from an ATM in Chiang Mai, I think it was a Bangkok Bank ATM. The exchange rate at the time was between 34 and 35 bath to the dollar, with the 150 fee I expected a charge of about $440 U.S. to my account. When I checked my account yesterday I saw that $589.88 had been withdrawn from my account, about what I would expect for a 20000 baht withdrawal. I checked my ATM receipt to verify the amount withdrawn then e-mailed my bank. I received the following reply:

Your email was forwarded to me by one of our member service representatives. We have actually been having quite a few transactions like this from Thailand . There is some sort of error going on with ATM’s in that country. We have to wait until the end of the month to receive a credit from them. Please let me know if I can be of further assistance.

XXXXXXX

Fraud/ Document Specialist

I have been in Thailand for three years and this is the first time that I've had this kind of problem. The reply indicates that this is happening a lot. I advise everyone using ATM's to check their bank balance and make sure the withdrawal amount is correct. If anyone else has had a similar problem, please post it here so the ThaiVisa members can get a sense of how widespread the problem is. If I get more information from my bank/credit union I will post it here.

[lopburi3]

I think it was a Bangkok Bank ATM.

This I do not understand - you say you checked the receipt - that will say what bank it was.

[heybruce]

I think it was a Bangkok Bank ATM.

This I do not understand - you say you checked the receipt - that will say what bank it was.

The receipt is all in Thai except for the numbers. It was from the ATM at the Rimping next to the Ping river, I think that's Bangkok Bank or Siam Commercial. Next time I'm there I will check.

[cmsally]

I think it was a Bangkok Bank ATM.

This I do not understand - you say you checked the receipt - that will say what bank it was.

The receipt is all in Thai except for the numbers. It was from the ATM at the Rimping next to the Ping river, I think that's Bangkok Bank or Siam Commercial. Next time I'm there I will check.

Rimping has Bangkok Bank machines.

[BigSnake]

Hey why don't you go take a picture of that ATM machine and post it here we can tell you in a Heartbeat what bank it is.

Edited June 5, 2009 by BigSnake

[heybruce]

Ok, we have established it was a Bangkok Bank ATM. We have not established that the problem is unique to Bangkok Bank ATM's. The fraud department of my U.S bank said they were having a lot of problems with ATM withdrawals from Thailand, they didn't say it was with just one bank.

I started this thread to caution people about a fraud or software glitch that cost me 5000 baht on one ATM withdrawal and may be costing a lot of other people a lot of money. Once again, I suggest everyone check and make sure they are not having much more money taken out of their bank accounts than they are taking out of Thailand ATM's. I don't know if my experience was a one-off fluke or if this is a wide spread problem. Just in case it is a wide spread problem let's try and keep the thread focused.

[longball53098]

You do not mention you're US bank by name. I am surprised by the answer to wait almost a month to see if the system corrects the mistake. Reconciling the atm balances against the system and then you're bank should not take a month. But TIT. Did you're US bank discuss the transaction with you? Did they ask questions about how much cash you actually received? Did you're bank suggest what to do if the system does not reverse the extra cash? Seems odd that the system at the atm worked and the debit amount to you're account was more by an exact amount like 5k. Computers don't usually make this kind of error. People do.

[heybruce]

You do not mention you're US bank by name. I am surprised by the answer to wait almost a month to see if the system corrects the mistake. Reconciling the atm balances against the system and then you're bank should not take a month. But TIT. Did you're US bank discuss the transaction with you? Did they ask questions about how much cash you actually received? Did you're bank suggest what to do if the system does not reverse the extra cash? Seems odd that the system at the atm worked and the debit amount to you're account was more by an exact amount like 5k. Computers don't usually make this kind of error. People do.

I have been omitting the irrelevant. The key point that I keep getting back to is that people who use Thai ATM's should check and make sure the correct amount has been withdrawn from their account. Perhaps my experience is a one-off, or perhaps there is a widespread problem. If other people have encountered the same problem, please report it here.

I gave full details of transaction amounts in my e-mail reporting the problem. My original post gave the full body of the response from them, which stated that the problem would be corrected at the end of the month. However if anyone has a similar problem and does not report it to their bank in a timely manner, they may lose their money. Once again, check and make sure the amount withdrawn from your bank account matches your ATM withdrawal.

I realize that it is slightly easier to reply to a post than than to check your bank balance, though checking your finances is much more in your interest. But if it makes you happy: Kirtland Federal Credit Union, technically not a bank but well regulated, decades old, and in my twenty one years of business with them I've never encountered a problem until now. For those unfamiliar with U.S. banking, credit unions are, to the customers, identical to banks. I think there are slightly different governmental regulations, but none of consequence to the average customer. Please don't go off-topic on a discussion of the differences between credit unions and banks and please don't try to help me with my problem, I have it under control. I'm trying to warn people of a problem with withdrawals from international banks using Thai ATM's.

[rak sa_ngop]

Maybe the recently announced ATM charge in Thailand is actually 150 USD and not 150 baht. That works out to almost exactly 5000 baht!

[JR Texas]

You do not mention you're US bank by name. I am surprised by the answer to wait almost a month to see if the system corrects the mistake. Reconciling the atm balances against the system and then you're bank should not take a month. But TIT. Did you're US bank discuss the transaction with you? Did they ask questions about how much cash you actually received? Did you're bank suggest what to do if the system does not reverse the extra cash? Seems odd that the system at the atm worked and the debit amount to you're account was more by an exact amount like 5k. Computers don't usually make this kind of error. People do.

I have been omitting the irrelevant. The key point that I keep getting back to is that people who use Thai ATM's should check and make sure the correct amount has been withdrawn from their account. Perhaps my experience is a one-off, or perhaps there is a widespread problem. If other people have encountered the same problem, please report it here.

I gave full details of transaction amounts in my e-mail reporting the problem. My original post gave the full body of the response from them, which stated that the problem would be corrected at the end of the month. However if anyone has a similar problem and does not report it to their bank in a timely manner, they may lose their money. Once again, check and make sure the amount withdrawn from your bank account matches your ATM withdrawal.

I realize that it is slightly easier to reply to a post than than to check your bank balance, though checking your finances is much more in your interest. But if it makes you happy: Kirtland Federal Credit Union, technically not a bank but well regulated, decades old, and in my twenty one years of business with them I've never encountered a problem until now. For those unfamiliar with U.S. banking, credit unions are, to the customers, identical to banks. I think there are slightly different governmental regulations, but none of consequence to the average customer. Please don't go off-topic on a discussion of the differences between credit unions and banks and please don't try to help me with my problem, I have it under control. I'm trying to warn people of a problem with withdrawals from international banks using Thai ATM's.

Thanks for posting the warning.........whether or not anything deliberate is going on aside, theft is a way of life here. No sector seems immune at the moment.

[lopburi3]

Maybe the recently announced ATM charge in Thailand is actually 150 USD and not 150 baht. That works out to almost exactly 5000 baht!

That would make sense - a programing error causing the fee to be in native currency - but I can not believe others would not have been screaming about it in that case - as every transaction would have been grossly overcharged. Why it should not be corrected until the end of the month is also a new one on me - the only time it has happened to me (atm did not have funds years ago to pay it all) my account was credited within 3 days.

Sorry if my query about the ATM receipt sounded doubting - just wanted to know which bank you were having a problem with. In my daily use of Thai ATM's I have never seen a receipt that did not have the bank information/symbol on it (if a normal bank ATM machine). But perhaps that is just here in the big city?

Edited June 6, 2009 by lopburi3

[bdenner]

Maybe the recently announced ATM charge in Thailand is actually 150 USD and not 150 baht. That works out to almost exactly 5000 baht!

Good point -- Computer programming error in applying the Thai charge? Auditing my bank statements now even though they are Australian.

[bails]

On the second of June I made a 15000 baht withdrawal from an ATM in Chiang Mai, I think it was a Bangkok Bank ATM. The exchange rate at the time was between 34 and 35 bath to the dollar, with the 150 fee I expected a charge of about $440 U.S. to my account. When I checked my account yesterday I saw that $589.88 had been withdrawn from my account, about what I would expect for a 20000 baht withdrawal. I checked my ATM receipt to verify the amount withdrawn then e-mailed my bank. I received the following reply:

Your email was forwarded to me by one of our member service representatives. We have actually been having quite a few transactions like this from Thailand . There is some sort of error going on with ATM's in that country. We have to wait until the end of the month to receive a credit from them. Please let me know if I can be of further assistance.

XXXXXXX

Fraud/ Document Specialist

I have been in Thailand for three years and this is the first time that I've had this kind of problem. The reply indicates that this is happening a lot. I advise everyone using ATM's to check their bank balance and make sure the withdrawal amount is correct. If anyone else has had a similar problem, please post it here so the ThaiVisa members can get a sense of how widespread the problem is. If I get more information from my bank/credit union I will post it here.

You are not the only one having atm problems at the moment. I recently tried to withdraw 20000 baht from a Krung Thai atm and the transaction was completed except for the fact the atm did not dispense the 20000 baht.I have an Australian debit card and my account was debited the 20000 baht.

Krung Thai bank could not have cared less but as i do not have an account with them they just told me i needed to take it up with my Australian bank and i am in the process of doing that at the moment.

I am hopeful of a good outcome as the atm i used is the only one in the village and according to the police there have been numerous occassions when this atm has not dispensed any cash.

[Carmine6]

You do not mention you're US bank by name. I am surprised by the answer to wait almost a month to see if the system corrects the mistake. Reconciling the atm balances against the system and then you're bank should not take a month. But TIT. Did you're US bank discuss the transaction with you? Did they ask questions about how much cash you actually received? Did you're bank suggest what to do if the system does not reverse the extra cash? Seems odd that the system at the atm worked and the debit amount to you're account was more by an exact amount like 5k. Computers don't usually make this kind of error. People do.

I have been omitting the irrelevant. The key point that I keep getting back to is that people who use Thai ATM's should check and make sure the correct amount has been withdrawn from their account. Perhaps my experience is a one-off, or perhaps there is a widespread problem. If other people have encountered the same problem, please report it here.

I gave full details of transaction amounts in my e-mail reporting the problem. My original post gave the full body of the response from them, which stated that the problem would be corrected at the end of the month. However if anyone has a similar problem and does not report it to their bank in a timely manner, they may lose their money. Once again, check and make sure the amount withdrawn from your bank account matches your ATM withdrawal.

I realize that it is slightly easier to reply to a post than than to check your bank balance, though checking your finances is much more in your interest. But if it makes you happy: Kirtland Federal Credit Union, technically not a bank but well regulated, decades old, and in my twenty one years of business with them I've never encountered a problem until now. For those unfamiliar with U.S. banking, credit unions are, to the customers, identical to banks. I think there are slightly different governmental regulations, but none of consequence to the average customer. Please don't go off-topic on a discussion of the differences between credit unions and banks and please don't try to help me with my problem, I have it under control. I'm trying to warn people of a problem with withdrawals from international banks using Thai ATM's.

What card network is your card on? I mean Plus, Cirrus, etc. Since no one else has mentioned any problems, but your credit union seems to have many instances, perhaps it is a coding issue, but only on a certain network. One thing I remember about credit unions is you have to hunt down ATMs that'll take the card because they don't sign up with as many networks as banks generally do.

[heybruce]

What card network is your card on? I mean Plus, Cirrus, etc. Since no one else has mentioned any problems, but your credit union seems to have many instances, perhaps it is a coding issue, but only on a certain network. One thing I remember about credit unions is you have to hunt down ATMs that'll take the card because they don't sign up with as many networks as banks generally do.

My credit union ATM card is has the Plus, Pulse, and something called Co-Op Network emblems on it. I've used it in ATM's in many countries around the world and can't ever recall having a problem finding a machine that takes it.

[longball53098]

Hope it all sorts out. If you're credit union has a good fraud department they will surely get an answer to this for you and recover the cash

[JimGant]

there have been numerous occassions when this atm has not dispensed any cash.

The three cherries didn't line up?

[Carmine6]

What card network is your card on? I mean Plus, Cirrus, etc. Since no one else has mentioned any problems, but your credit union seems to have many instances, perhaps it is a coding issue, but only on a certain network. One thing I remember about credit unions is you have to hunt down ATMs that'll take the card because they don't sign up with as many networks as banks generally do.

My credit union ATM card is has the Plus, Pulse, and something called Co-Op Network emblems on it. I've used it in ATM's in many countries around the world and can't ever recall having a problem finding a machine that takes it.

Plus is Visa's network so that's probably why it has worked everywhere. Pulse comes up as owned by Discover.

Could be the network, but seems like there'd be more complaints here if it were Plus having issues with Bangkok Bank ATMs. Maybe it's just certain ATMs, but then it would be long odds that members of your credit union are also in Thailand and also using the same type of ATMs. Unless the fraud department was refering to some notice that went to every bank and not just internal cases.

Maybe pass along the news of the new fee and the coincidence that it looks like it's adding $150 instead of 150 baht. They at least might be able to tell you if it's not always the same amount or if the other cases are also $150.

[heybruce]

Maybe pass along the news of the new fee and the coincidence that it looks like it's adding $150 instead of 150 baht. They at least might be able to tell you if it's not always the same amount or if the other cases are also $150.

Seems unlikely, but who knows? Thanks for the suggestion, I'll e-mail my credit union.

[lopburi3]

Maybe pass along the news of the new fee and the coincidence that it looks like it's adding $150 instead of 150 baht. They at least might be able to tell you if it's not always the same amount or if the other cases are also $150.

Seems unlikely, but who knows? Thanks for the suggestion, I'll e-mail my credit union.

Agree it seems unlikely but knowing the US they are not known for thinking beyond the dollar. As there have not been any other reports here (and Plus/Visa/BBL are the main players) it does seem to be your home bank problem. Wonder if BBL is charging the 150 baht outside the Plus/Visa system and your bank is paying it as $150 rather than the 150 baht it is supposed to be?

[vagabond48]

You are not the only one having atm problems at the moment. I recently tried to withdraw 20000 baht from a Krung Thai atm and the transaction was completed except for the fact the atm did not dispense the 20000 baht.I have an Australian debit card and my account was debited the 20000 baht.

Krung Thai bank could not have cared less but as i do not have an account with them they just told me i needed to take it up with my Australian bank and i am in the process of doing that at the moment.

I am hopeful of a good outcome as the atm i used is the only one in the village and according to the police there have been numerous occassions when this atm has not dispensed any cash.

Although, not quite as large an amount, awhile back, I used a Bangkok Bank ATM to withdraw 2000b but only got 1500b. As I usually do, I use ATM machine next to the bank during banking hours. I went into the branch went to customer service. I showed them my receipt and the 1500b cash. I waited 15 minutes and the woman returned with a 500b note. I am not sure what they did to check my claim. Lost 15 minutes but got my money.

[samui04]

Although, not quite as large an amount, awhile back, I used a Bangkok Bank ATM to withdraw 2000b but only got 1500b. As I usually do, I use ATM machine next to the bank during banking hours. I went into the branch went to customer service. I showed them my receipt and the 1500b cash. I waited 15 minutes and the woman returned with a 500b note. I am not sure what they did to check my claim. Lost 15 minutes but got my money.

I always use ATM with a bank attached on their back....

The machine can eat the card, give no money with ok receipt or give bad money count .

A bank close will help a lot

[Bizz]

Glitch here

[endure]

Glitch here

This has nothing to do with ATMs. The problem was that Nationwide customers couldn't access their online banking. It's now been fixed.

[Bizz]

I must be going blind Endure I bow to your superior knowledge.

Nationwide online problem fixed

More than one million of Nationwide's 15m members use its online banking service.