Worried About My Son

[CuriousGeorge77]

long story short:

Our son is 4 years old. His mom is heading to Thailand next week for a month long vacation with our son and my mom. His mom is Thai, from Nakhon St Thammarat, not close to her family. We were married for 5 years, and split a couple months ago. She's going to University here in the US, has a job, friends, and a green card not related to marriage.

My question: I am a bit worried that she might just not come back with him - simply because its been known to happen. Any thoughts / experience out there about being able to find my son should she decide to stay, and what options I would have in that case? thanks

[KingJames]

certainly possible and quite common. children are often treated as bargaining tools and used for extortion by thai women against their farang husbands and are also often sent to live with their grand parents. your wife's attributes would suggest that hopefully she is different.

[kennkate]

The odds would seem to be stacked in your favor.

She is gong to Uni has friends Green card Job Ect. More likely to want to return than stay in Thailand.

What would she do for support in Thailand. Could she get a job that would give her the lifestyle she has in US

She could make things difficult for you. Demand cash to return. Has she got a return Ticket ?

Maybe you would have to call her Bluff. I doubt you could stop her anyway.

[kudroz]

Who has custody?

Does your son has a Thai passport? If your son enters Thailand with a Thai passport, the US consular services won't want to get involved should any problem arises. If your child enters Thailand with his US passport, it's a different story.

A Thai passport for your child can be obtained from the Thai consular services in the US and also from within Thailand. Even if your child enters Thailand with a US passport your wife could take your child to a border crossing and walk back in Thailand using his Thai passport.

Be careful before you consent to this. Good luck.

Edited June 7, 2009 by kudroz

[churchill]

You said your Mother is going so I would not worry too much she can keep a close eye on the situation - Perhaps you could speak to a lawyer in the US to give your mother power of attorney in case of any problems to put your mind at rest ?

[Mario2008]

Who has custody?

Does your son has a Thai passport? If your son enters Thailand with a Thai passport, the US consular services won't want to get involved should any problem arises. If your child enters Thailand with his US passport, it's a different story.

A Thai passport for your child can be obtained from the Thai consular services in the US and also from within Thailand. Even if your child enters Thailand with a US passport your wife could take your child to a border crossing and walk back in Thailand using his Thai passport.

Be careful before you consent to this. Good luck.

It doesn't matter which passport the child enters Thailand on. The child has Thai nationality by way of being born to a Thai mother. As the US State deperment points out, tthey can not do anything if the mother decides to stay with the child in Thailand. You would be fighting a custody attle in a Thai court and who would win is uncertain. A US court ruling will have no meaning in Thailand.

However, as others pointed out, i wouldn't worry too much. It seems her future is in the US and not in Thailand.

[Mario2008]

certainly possible and quite common. children are often treated as bargaining tools and used for extortion by thai women against their farang husbands and are also often sent to live with their grand parents. your wife's attributes would suggest that hopefully she is different.

That some parents do this, and not only woman or Thais, doesn't mean that all Thai woman use their child as a bargaining tool.

[kudroz]

Who has custody?

Does your son has a Thai passport? If your son enters Thailand with a Thai passport, the US consular services won't want to get involved should any problem arises. If your child enters Thailand with his US passport, it's a different story.

A Thai passport for your child can be obtained from the Thai consular services in the US and also from within Thailand. Even if your child enters Thailand with a US passport your wife could take your child to a border crossing and walk back in Thailand using his Thai passport.

Be careful before you consent to this. Good luck.

It doesn't matter which passport the child enters Thailand on. The child has Thai nationality by way of being born to a Thai mother. As the US State deperment points out, tthey can not do anything if the mother decides to stay with the child in Thailand. You would be fighting a custody attle in a Thai court and who would win is uncertain. A US court ruling will have no meaning in Thailand.

However, as others pointed out, i wouldn't worry too much. It seems her future is in the US and not in Thailand.

Yes it does matter which passport he enters Thailand with. The child can have dual nationality but if he enters Thailand on a US passport, being a US citizen, the child is prevailed with US consular assistance and recognize as a US national when in Thailand.

[spysee]

certainly possible and quite common. children are often treated as bargaining tools and used for extortion by thai women against their farang husbands and are also often sent to live with their grand parents. your wife's attributes would suggest that hopefully she is different.

Rubbish, it is not quite common for Thai ladies to do this. What on earth made you think that?

[greenwood01]

Ya someone from nakhon third world capital would give up a green card and university education from the US(that you probably give to her)

Im sure she's gonna spit on a probable 50k+ us a year job that could help her family tremendously just to extract 500 000 baht from you by running away to thailand.

[spysee]

Ya someone from nakhon third world capital would give up a green card and university education from the US(that you probably give to her)

Im sure she's gonna spit on a probable 50k+ us a year job that could help her family tremendously just to extract 500 000 baht from you by running away to thailand.

A common sense post here. I don't see the OP having any problem at all. Good luck and dont worry about it. The odds are heavily in your favour.

[DP25]

Once she gets that US degree she will be able to get a very high paying job in Thailand, she doesn't need to stay in the US to make lots of money if she doesn't want to.

[greenwood01]

yes thats why 80% of expats are making less than 40k baht a month

[DP25]

yes thats why 80% of expats are making less than 40k baht a month

99% of them don't speak Thai and aren't Thai nationals and therefore ineligible. A lot of them don't even have college degrees.

[Mario2008]

Who has custody?

Does your son has a Thai passport? If your son enters Thailand with a Thai passport, the US consular services won't want to get involved should any problem arises. If your child enters Thailand with his US passport, it's a different story.

A Thai passport for your child can be obtained from the Thai consular services in the US and also from within Thailand. Even if your child enters Thailand with a US passport your wife could take your child to a border crossing and walk back in Thailand using his Thai passport.

Be careful before you consent to this. Good luck.

It doesn't matter which passport the child enters Thailand on. The child has Thai nationality by way of being born to a Thai mother. As the US State deperment points out, tthey can not do anything if the mother decides to stay with the child in Thailand. You would be fighting a custody attle in a Thai court and who would win is uncertain. A US court ruling will have no meaning in Thailand.

However, as others pointed out, i wouldn't worry too much. It seems her future is in the US and not in Thailand.

Yes it does matter which passport he enters Thailand with. The child can have dual nationality but if he enters Thailand on a US passport, being a US citizen, the child is prevailed with US consular assistance and recognize as a US national when in Thailand.

It doesn't matter on what passport the child enters Thailand. Regardless of the passport on which it enters, the child has Thai and US nationality and can request help from both countries embassies and consulates when traveling abroad.

However, the norm in the case of dual nationality is that in the case of a person being in a country which nationality he holds the other country which nationality he holds will not intervene.

Note that the US nor Thailand are parety to the treaty on parental child obduction and as a consequence the US will not act. See the state departments website

[MAC10]

The following words are going to be a bit harsh but its meant as a reality to check from one father to another. Unless you are a expert on Thailand and accompany your son on this trip and stay at nice hotels and rent your own transportation I would advise against allowing your child to come here with his mom and your mom too regardless of the possibility of her not returning.

Your child has evidently never been to Thailand and is not immune to all the local sicknesses that kids here get. Staying at hotels is one thing but staying outside of Bangkok with relatives will undoubtedly put your kid at unnecessary risk to getting sick from things that doctors will not be able to properly diagnose and treat. I have no faith in the medical care system here, none, and anyone who does is simply a fool. Most homes do not even have a thermometer much less segregate their sick kids from kids who are not sick. I can relate hundreds of nightmare health care stories but I do not have the time to do so.

The biggest problem is safety from transportation to ignorant relatives. Most likely your kid will end up riding up and down the highway in the back of a truck as this is the standard here. I have never allowed my baby to ride on a motorcycle but a few months ago on a visit to relatives I left my baby with the wife and went to the store, 15 minutes later I see Grandma driving up and down the street with my 2 year old hanging on the back of the motorcycle. I went off and chewed her butt out and everyone acted like I was some kind of paranoid idiot, In America grandma would have been hauled off to jail for endangering a child.

I have been siting with my kid at relatives when a 2 meter long King Cobra just showed up in the room, If I had not made sure it was killed by doing it myself the family would have just let it crawl off so it could come back. My kid has been taught about snakes and to get away from them and to fear them but outside kids will not have the same knowledge which can led to tragedy. People here consider finding snakes in the bathroom a normal occurrence, sometimes even in the cities.

There is also a huge problem with alcohol and child molestation here. Sorry if this shatters some people but its a known fact. Drunks have no preference over screwing kids, boys or girls, often rape is used as a tool for revenge by ex partners or jealous people. Sure if your sitting there watching your kid nothing will happen but if your half a world away and your kid is playing unsupervised you have no way of protecting your kid. This kind of thing can happen in America too but here nothing is ever done about it, serial rapist and molesters here enjoy a environment that accepts this kind of behavior. Just a example, If you kill a molester in America you will have broken laws but you will have much sympathy from family and other parents. In Thailand everyone will be angry with you because the drunk uncle helps do the rice once a year and after all, the kid will live through the experience so they weren't hurt that bad. There is not much frowning on rape as kids don't complain because they don't understand what happened and there are no therapist here, just take a look around at all the shattered adults in Thailand who were molested as kids, its a huge problem.

You asked on a public forum so here is my advice, go get a emergency injunction to bar your ex wife from taking the kid outside of the United States. Tell her if she wants to go, no problem, go, but do not let her take your kid unless you have time to go yourself and make sure your kid is taken care of according to your standards. This is best not left to chance as even adults who should know better end up dead over here and nobody ever takes any responsibility for anything, not now and not ever.

Thailand is a truly beautiful land and has many wonderful people but it has a dark side like no other place on earth where you are completely on your own as far as health and safety, Beware.

[bonobo]

certainly possible and quite common. children are often treated as bargaining tools and used for extortion by thai women against their farang husbands and are also often sent to live with their grand parents. your wife's attributes would suggest that hopefully she is different.

Rubbish, it is not quite common for Thai ladies to do this. What on earth made you think that?

Depending on how you define "quite common," yes it is quite common anywhere for children to be used as pawns in the divorce/breakups of couples.  And Thailand is no different than other countries in this.  I sincerely doubt that this is the case with a majority of break-ups, but certainly many men and women have used their children as pawns in these cases.

[CWMcMurray]

yes thats why 80% of expats are making less than 40k baht a month

But I bet the same pecentage of Thais who received their degrees from overseas are making more than that...

[Scott]

There is no way of knowing in advance what will happen. It's also normal for a parent to be worried about the welfare of a child on a trip such as this. It is, however, also important that your son learn some things about his roots and background and he will likely appreciate it very much in the future. Since your mother is going along, it sounds like there is a good relationship between your family and her and if her plan was to 'abduct' him, I think she would have made plans that exclude a concerned grandmother coming along.

I hope it all works out and make sure you keep a good (or as good as possible) relationship with the mother. She has a green card and even if she would stay longer, my guess is that eventually she will tire of being back, as most tourists eventually do--and she will really be more of a tourist than anything since she doesn't have a close relationship with her family.

Best of luck.

[MJo]

...snip...

You asked on a public forum so here is my advice, go get a emergency injunction to bar your ex wife from taking the kid outside of the United States. Tell her if she wants to go, no problem, go, but do not let her take your kid unless you have time to go yourself and make sure your kid is taken care of according to your standards. This is best not left to chance as even adults who should know better end up dead over here and nobody ever takes any responsibility for anything, not now and not ever.

Thailand is a truly beautiful land and has many wonderful people but it has a dark side like no other place on earth where you are completely on your own as far as health and safety, Beware.

Jeez, maybe it is time for you to spend some time out of the house and take off the tin foil hat LOL

Talk about negative and pessimistic mindset...

Thailand is ok, good quality health care widely available all over the country. Only valid concern in this post is the transport, local ways are few decades behind the west. So they will try and take your kid in a bike or car without proper seat or belts. But you have your mom there to keep an eye and prevent the most dangerous situations.

And yes, staying in thailand will get your kid stomach to go nuts. Just as it will get to your mother. It happens to almost everyone coming to Asia first time regardless of age in first month or so.

[MAC10]

...snip...

You asked on a public forum so here is my advice, go get a emergency injunction to bar your ex wife from taking the kid outside of the United States. Tell her if she wants to go, no problem, go, but do not let her take your kid unless you have time to go yourself and make sure your kid is taken care of according to your standards. This is best not left to chance as even adults who should know better end up dead over here and nobody ever takes any responsibility for anything, not now and not ever.

Thailand is a truly beautiful land and has many wonderful people but it has a dark side like no other place on earth where you are completely on your own as far as health and safety, Beware.

Jeez, maybe it is time for you to spend some time out of the house and take off the tin foil hat LOL

Talk about negative and pessimistic mindset...

Thailand is ok, good quality health care widely available all over the country. Only valid concern in this post is the transport, local ways are few decades behind the west. So they will try and take your kid in a bike or car without proper seat or belts. But you have your mom there to keep an eye and prevent the most dangerous situations.

And yes, staying in thailand will get your kid stomach to go nuts. Just as it will get to your mother. It happens to almost everyone coming to Asia first time regardless of age in first month or so.

Funny you should mention getting out of the house, I just got back from the hospital and listened to a baby scream for the last hour till she finally passed out. She has a case of Hand, Foot, and Mouth Disease, and has open blisters on her tongue. Its a good thing she was fat and healthy because she refused to drink milk for the last 48 hours and will not eat anything but small amounts of White Rice and drink a little water.

I have lived here for many years, if you claim Thailand is anything but a third world when it comes to health and welfare you are living in some kind of fantasy world. It does not take a genius to walk around and see all the disease that's right in your face. If your like me and know a thing or two about medicine, have some serious first aid and rescue training, you may have a chance in Thailand if things go pear shaped. If your a simple tourist caught up in some kind of western ideas about what doctors can and cannot do in a life threatening situation you are playing Russian Roulette with more than one bullet in the cylinder.

Some may be aware of the spread of Mumps to Australia last year when a group of students was struck by lighting in Thailand and went home to attend the funeral. The Australian Government tracked down every single person on the aircraft that flew them home and that attended the funeral and prescribed medicine to these people whether they showed any symptoms or not.

At the time it occurred I contacted one of the more clued up Doctors that I have 24 hour access to and asked them about it. They said to not worry about it as they have a few hundred cases every year just in our small area and that three months prior to my asking there was a serious outbreak in Northeast Thailand although not one single thing was done to inform anyone about what was going on. In Australia it was a national alert.

I asked my other Doctor (Pediatrician) about Mumps today and he said the vaccine is around 60 to 70% effective for Mumps and that they do not pay much attention to it because there are so many other infectious diseases here going around and that Mumps breaks out yearly in Thailand.

Readers, best regards to all who have kids in Thailand, Its a difficult job to raise them here if you have a ounce of common sense.

MJo, While the price of everything else is going down, the price of Aluminum hats is going up, figure that.

[MSingh]

certainly possible and quite common. children are often treated as bargaining tools and used for extortion by thai women against their farang husbands and are also often sent to live with their grand parents. your wife's attributes would suggest that hopefully she is different.

Rubbish, it is not quite common for Thai ladies to do this. What on earth made you think that?

It certainly isn't rubbish & off the top of my head & including myself, i can think of at least 6 cases of thios happening & that's without even really thinking a great deal..

One that springs to mind other than my own situation a couple of Years back, is a Friend of mine that had to pay his " Wife " 100k THB & that made was sufficient enough for her to " give " the Boy to his Father..

Nice..

Of course however, i'm talking about the bottom of the barrel..

[Geekfreaklover]

...snip...

You asked on a public forum so here is my advice, go get a emergency injunction to bar your ex wife from taking the kid outside of the United States. Tell her if she wants to go, no problem, go, but do not let her take your kid unless you have time to go yourself and make sure your kid is taken care of according to your standards. This is best not left to chance as even adults who should know better end up dead over here and nobody ever takes any responsibility for anything, not now and not ever.

Thailand is a truly beautiful land and has many wonderful people but it has a dark side like no other place on earth where you are completely on your own as far as health and safety, Beware.

Jeez, maybe it is time for you to spend some time out of the house and take off the tin foil hat LOL

Talk about negative and pessimistic mindset...

Thailand is ok, good quality health care widely available all over the country. Only valid concern in this post is the transport, local ways are few decades behind the west. So they will try and take your kid in a bike or car without proper seat or belts. But you have your mom there to keep an eye and prevent the most dangerous situations.

And yes, staying in thailand will get your kid stomach to go nuts. Just as it will get to your mother. It happens to almost everyone coming to Asia first time regardless of age in first month or so.

Funny you should mention getting out of the house, I just got back from the hospital and listened to a baby scream for the last hour till she finally passed out. She has a case of Hand, Foot, and Mouth Disease, and has open blisters on her tongue. Its a good thing she was fat and healthy because she refused to drink milk for the last 48 hours and will not eat anything but small amounts of White Rice and drink a little water.

I have lived here for many years, if you claim Thailand is anything but a third world when it comes to health and welfare you are living in some kind of fantasy world. It does not take a genius to walk around and see all the disease that's right in your face. If your like me and know a thing or two about medicine, have some serious first aid and rescue training, you may have a chance in Thailand if things go pear shaped. If your a simple tourist caught up in some kind of western ideas about what doctors can and cannot do in a life threatening situation you are playing Russian Roulette with more than one bullet in the cylinder.

Some may be aware of the spread of Mumps to Australia last year when a group of students was struck by lighting in Thailand and went home to attend the funeral. The Australian Government tracked down every single person on the aircraft that flew them home and that attended the funeral and prescribed medicine to these people whether they showed any symptoms or not.

At the time it occurred I contacted one of the more clued up Doctors that I have 24 hour access to and asked them about it. They said to not worry about it as they have a few hundred cases every year just in our small area and that three months prior to my asking there was a serious outbreak in Northeast Thailand although not one single thing was done to inform anyone about what was going on. In Australia it was a national alert.

I asked my other Doctor (Pediatrician) about Mumps today and he said the vaccine is around 60 to 70% effective for Mumps and that they do not pay much attention to it because there are so many other infectious diseases here going around and that Mumps breaks out yearly in Thailand.

Readers, best regards to all who have kids in Thailand, Its a difficult job to raise them here if you have a ounce of common sense.

MJo, While the price of everything else is going down, the price of Aluminum hats is going up, figure that.

Have to say that your experience differs from mine. I've brought up two of my own children as a single father and also taken care of two step children in Thailand.

I can only comapre the health care to my home country the UK. In the UK it is difficult to see a doctor at a hosiptal - it often involves hours of waiting in a waiting room. In Thailand, private hospitals are never that far away and you will always be seen by a doctor as soon as you arrive at the hospital.

Most doctors in Thailand are educated in the west. I'm quite well versed in medicine, having studied medicine and to be honest I have never seen a case of malpratice in ten years over here.

But back to the original post. It speaks volumes that your mother is going along with your wife. I think you have nothing to worry about. And if you do I would imagine your mother would alert you as soon as possible.

[MJo]

I only have experience as patient in europe, US, africa and asia. Last 10 years been using Bumrungrad and i can renew my claim here that it is certainly not a third world hospital. To be honest, i've only been concerned in Africa, Ethiopia where i spend couple of years and only even close to hospital was run by Korean missionaries. Care here in private hospitals is frist class and costs the same or less as public ones back in europe. Also others here claim that government hospitals down to a provincial level are providing good quality care and costs are next to nothing.

Anyways myself, wife and kid are within 15 minutes of receiving first class care if the need ever arises. I don't have doctors on call 24 hrs and i do not subscribe to announcements on outbreak status. I generally try to live healthy life and have more or less regular health checks every year or so.

Sure things can go bad here especially with the traffic and yes it takes more time to get you to a hospital here than it takes in the west. I do realize that but somehow i do not feel i'm pointing a loaded gun in my head. I take it what it is, fatal or serious accidents can happen anywhere.

[Geekfreaklover]

I recall going to my GP in england before I first went to Asia and asking him to give me a routine check up as being youg and ignorant I didn't have full trust in the doctors in Asia.

He, a very good English doctor, was quite annoyed at this comment and asked me why I didn't consider the doctors in asia to be up to scratch. I had no answer. He went on to explain that doctors in Singapore, India, Malaysia and Thailand are some of the best in the world.

The west did not invent medicine.

Mac10, I think that maybe you have not looked at the facts.

Edited June 8, 2009 by Geekfreaklover

[Boo]

post deleted, do not refer to the ops wife in a derogatory manner. Yo do not know this women & to call her a whore is out of line. Next one gets a suspension.

[CuriousGeorge77]

I lived an LoS for 3 years, met my ex-wife there, and our son was born in Koh Samui. He has 2 passports.

She is going to Thailand to visit her sister, who just had a baby. Her sister is going to France soon.

I do not think she'll bail - she is doing fine at the university, already has a new boyfriend here. She certainly won't extort him. I don't have the money she wants anyway - I'm a student now, too.

She's just working as a waitress @ a Thai restaurant right now, but she knows that if she gets a degree from a US university she'd be able to go back to Thailand and get quite a good job - especially if she gets a good business degree, which she is planning.

I had one PM that said that the PIs do a good job finding people. anyone else with experience there?

[highlander76]

Mac 10 I have never read such a insulting post what crap you have writen if you dislike Thailand so much you should return to your home country as soon as you can

[MAC10]

I only have experience as patient in europe, US, africa and asia. Last 10 years been using Bumrungrad and i can renew my claim here that it is certainly not a third world hospital. To be honest, i've only been concerned in Africa, Ethiopia where i spend couple of years and only even close to hospital was run by Korean missionaries. Care here in private hospitals is frist class and costs the same or less as public ones back in europe. Also others here claim that government hospitals down to a provincial level are providing good quality care and costs are next to nothing.

Anyways myself, wife and kid are within 15 minutes of receiving first class care if the need ever arises. I don't have doctors on call 24 hrs and i do not subscribe to announcements on outbreak status. I generally try to live healthy life and have more or less regular health checks every year or so.

Sure things can go bad here especially with the traffic and yes it takes more time to get you to a hospital here than it takes in the west. I do realize that but somehow i do not feel i'm pointing a loaded gun in my head. I take it what it is, fatal or serious accidents can happen anywhere.

MJo, Most of us who live in Thailand are familiar with Bumrungrad Hospital and it is a great hospital from what I hear. If one is living 15 minutes from Bumrungrad they are all set with no medical worries as far health care and as long as they have money.

The topic here is having a Thai National take a 4 year old American kid up country in Thailand to live like average Thai people for a month. This is a completely different circumstance so I addressed it as such. If they planned to stay in Bangkok off Sukimvit at a thousand baht a night hotel or better and I would not make any of the comments that I made. If you get up country and need emergency medicine your odds of good service or less than that of a coin toss.

Just go take a look at the Phuket forum where they talk about medical care there in Phuket, A well known international destination with a horrible record concerning its hospitals. I have inspected hospitals all over Isarn and can tell you first hand the majority would not pass as anything close to a western hospital from sterilization to quality of treatment.

If you have a car wreck in America odds are you will have some of the best emergency medical services on the planet, police, rescue, first responders, jaws of life, ambulances, helicopters, whatever is needed. If you have a wreck in Thailand odds are some guys will show up in a little beat up truck with Chinese wrtiing on it and a top light then empty your pockets while you get bounced to whatever hospital they think will give them the most money for you, if your lucky only one group will show up, otherwise they will fight over who gets you. If you are unfortunate enough to have a accident outside of Bangkok or a major city, heaven help you.

Nobody is arguing that accidents only happen here, they happen everywhere. The difference is here you will often die form things that people in the west rarely die from. Just ask around, do you ever here about hospitals being worried if they lose a patient? No way, there is zero accountability, nobody to take responsibility for mistakes, nobody to hold to any standard. Do you believe there is any recourse for a case of malpractice? There is none. That is a huge difference in medical care, one that must be factored in to the equation.

While your family has the benefit of having you a educated westerner here in Thailand to sort out the medical mine field and get them through to the other side. A four year old being cared for by a Thai National and a American Tourist will have no background for making educated decisions about sorting out medicine in Thailand if they are up country and have bad luck. People should think of going up country like a small scale expedition where you need to have a good plan and some redundancy, not as a take it as it comes light hearted holiday, its not that anymore once you get past main street and small mistakes can often never be taken back.

[MAC10]

Mac 10 I have never read such a insulting post what crap you have writen if you dislike Thailand so much you should return to your home country as soon as you can

Thanks for the positive feedback. I must be doing something right as you are clearly affected by my words. By the way, you have misspelled written.