Toyota Sportrider Or Volvo V70 ... Opinions Please

[Presto]

Hi everyone, I'm new to this forum, so a short introduction might be in order. I'm from the Netherlands, 56 now, and planning on moving to Thailand at the end of this year. For the past 10 years I've been to Thailand often, so many things are at least not completely new to me. Although a huge part of the charm of Thailand is its ability to surprise me again and again ...

On to the topic of my post. I plan to buy a secondhand car when here, I need to get around, want to see more of the country and will carry 1 or 2 bikes (bicycles wil be the topic of another post I wil make, I'm an avid bike rider) with us.

So I've come to 2 options: a Toyota Sportrider D4D (diesel, lots of room, strong) or a Volvo V70 stationwagon (lots of room again, more comfortable, petrol engine). They would come in about the same price range, the Sportrider being about 5 years old, and the Volvo about 10. I've been driving Volvo's (850T5 and S70R) over here for 10 years now, and am quite happy with the reliability, the roadfeel, the whole package really. I've never driven a SUV like the Toyota.

I can see the obvious differences: ruggedness, fuel efficiency and probably more dealers in favor of the Toyota, and comfort and speed in favor of the Volvo. But I'd like opninions of you people that live in Thailand and can comment on everyday experiences.

Thanks in advance!

[HDRIDER]

HI

Dont have any of them but would go for Volvo, think about safety as well, how much safety do you think the Toyota have

[BSJ]

Hi Presto, I've had a few Volvo's over the years, the last being an 850. I do like them but Ford took over Volvo and that was the end for me. I know things change but I want change for the better and I doubt Ford had the right attitude to make the cars better. Whatever product that Volvo have in the showroom now will have Ford's fingerprint on it.

Toyota v Volvo??? My guess is if your comparing the 2 you must be prepared for compromises....go with the Volvo!

[Plus]

Sportrider is quite slow by today's standards, especially on highways. Forget overtaking over 120 though it's adequate below that.

On the other hand, if it's only five year old, it will last forever with minimum maintanance. But it's based on pickup truck so don't expect a soft ride.

There's tons of interior space, a lot more than in a taxi, probably more than in an Camry.

[TVmonitor]

I think you'll find the extra age and need for parts will be the killer with the Volvo (check the TAX rates too!!)

The Toyota is familiar to more mechanics in Thailand and is simpler to run and repair - it is in essence a pick-up truck.

dep0ending on where you want to cycle - an what kind of cycling - you might find the 4WDb and extra ground clearance on the Toyota more suitable.

I actually prefer diesels too - the engines last longer - even than a Volvo! - and the cost of fuel tends to be less and ton for ton, they get better mileage.

PS - I've lost count of the number of Volvos I've owned.

[katabeachbum]

I think you'll find the extra age and need for parts will be the killer with the Volvo (check the TAX rates too!!)

The Toyota is familiar to more mechanics in Thailand and is simpler to run and repair - it is in essence a pick-up truck.

dep0ending on where you want to cycle - an what kind of cycling - you might find the 4WDb and extra ground clearance on the Toyota more suitable.

I actually prefer diesels too - the engines last longer - even than a Volvo! - and the cost of fuel tends to be less and ton for ton, they get better mileage.

PS - I've lost count of the number of Volvos I've owned.

I like the Volvo V70 very much, but its considered a luxury car in LOS. A new V70 2,0T costs 2,7 mill baht, and thats the old body replaced in the rest of the world a year ago.

Very few dealers/servicecenters, and difficult to find spareparts for a 10 year old outside BKK.

Most Volvo 940 get a Toyota engine when the Volvo engine breaks down.

I looked at a XC70 2,3T (2004/50k km) the other day, but it was 1 mill baht

On the other hand the Toyota mentioned is like 25 years old as a model, with terrible crash safety and the handbrake still under the steering wheel.

700k you get a Fortuner

[Plus]

On the other hand the Toyota mentioned is like 25 years old as a model, with terrible crash safety and the handbrake still under the steering wheel.

In Thailand it was introduced as Hilux tiger just over ten years ago, before that it was MightyX.

Later the engine was upgraded to d4d.

There's one dirvers airbag, ABS, and seat belts with pretension. The body was designed according to Toyota's GOA that is used on all their passenger vehicles.

[tominchaam]

I would not go for a Sportrider as I find a 4-5 year old Fortuner has much better comfort. To buy a ten year old Volvo is like gambling unless you are well aware of the history of the car you want to buy.

Take a look at Ford Everest which I find to be a good alternative and should come with a low price as well.

[Plus]

Yeah, Sportriders were completely replaced by Fortuners in late 2004, but I think the price difference would be significant.

Fortuners have shorte wheel base, btw, they could have less interior space.

Ford Everest guarantees a low price, that's for sure, it's the image thing.

[katabeachbum]

Yeah, Sportriders were completely replaced by Fortuners in late 2004, but I think the price difference would be significant.

Fortuners have shorte wheel base, btw, they could have less interior space.

Ford Everest guarantees a low price, that's for sure, it's the image thing.

Fortuners have shorter wheelbase and is shorter all over, but is more spacious in front, 2nd row and 3rd row. As I said, Hilux, Mighty, Tiger, Sportsrider was introduced in the 80s, and replaced by Vigo and Fortuner 2004.

Everest is almost as old, with handbrake still under steeringwheel, narrow frame and leafsprings. Its called new Everest now

[Presto]

Thanks for the helpful responses so far. I was aware that cars like the Sportrider are pick-up derived, and have leaf springs at the back. Sophisticated leafsprings I hope , but I would have to make a testdrive to know if I can live with that. I assume that a 2004 Sportrider would have decent brakes and a passenger side airbag? All this is not like a '99 Volvo V70 of course, which is much much more safety oriented.

I have owned a 850T5R for 5 years and driven it till 260k kms, and now have a S70R which has 135k so far; and 10 years old at that. reliability is never a problem, although repairs for things that wear out like suspension can be pricey.

So the simplicity of a Toyota (or Isuzu for that matter) has its attractions, plus the widespread service network.

Btw, don't all the pick-up derived SUV's have leafsprings at the back? I'm certain the MU-7 has them, not sure about the Fortunuuuuh. The Fortuner seems to be quite expensive 2nd hand, the MU-7 seems cheaper. Specific reason for that?

And to answer another poster, I won't be using the car for hard-core 4x4 stuff, but the quality of roads can vary quite a bit is my experience, once you get out into the countryside. (And I'm not a mountainbiker, I'm a roadie ...)

[katabeachbum]

Thanks for the helpful responses so far. I was aware that cars like the Sportrider are pick-up derived, and have leaf springs at the back. Sophisticated leafsprings I hope , but I would have to make a testdrive to know if I can live with that. I assume that a 2004 Sportrider would have decent brakes and a passenger side airbag? All this is not like a '99 Volvo V70 of course, which is much much more safety oriented.

I have owned a 850T5R for 5 years and driven it till 260k kms, and now have a S70R which has 135k so far; and 10 years old at that. reliability is never a problem, although repairs for things that wear out like suspension can be pricey.

So the simplicity of a Toyota (or Isuzu for that matter) has its attractions, plus the widespread service network.

Btw, don't all the pick-up derived SUV's have leafsprings at the back? I'm certain the MU-7 has them, not sure about the Fortunuuuuh. The Fortuner seems to be quite expensive 2nd hand, the MU-7 seems cheaper. Specific reason for that?

And to answer another poster, I won't be using the car for hard-core 4x4 stuff, but the quality of roads can vary quite a bit is my experience, once you get out into the countryside. (And I'm not a mountainbiker, I'm a roadie ...)

Only Fortuner and Pajero Sport have rear coil springs. Since Pajero Sport is only a year old as model, Fortuner starting at 6-700k is your only coilspring SUV option.

Volvo breaks from 100 kmh in 42-44 meters. Fortuner 55-60 meters. Sportrider 70-80 meters. Sorry, facts.

[Chunkton]

Hi Presto, I've had a few Volvo's over the years, the last being an 850. I do like them but Ford took over Volvo and that was the end for me. I know things change but I want change for the better and I doubt Ford had the right attitude to make the cars better. Whatever product that Volvo have in the showroom now will have Ford's fingerprint on it.

Toyota v Volvo??? My guess is if your comparing the 2 you must be prepared for compromises....go with the Volvo!

That is very interesting. So what were the changes that Ford made to the Volvo to make it into a substandard vehicle? Did they downgrade the safety? What did they actually do?

[pj123]

"Volvo breaks from 100 kmh in 42-44 meters. Fortuner 55-60 meters. Sportrider 70-80 meters. Sorry, facts."

I am interested to know in where you got these numbers from.

[katabeachbum]

"Volvo breaks from 100 kmh in 42-44 meters. Fortuner 55-60 meters. Sportrider 70-80 meters. Sorry, facts."

I am interested to know in where you got these numbers from.

German braking tests. I used to import US trucks made in Canada to Europe. Sold company 8 years ago, but still has acces to testresults from TUV.

Edit Actually remember some numbers. Several sleepless nights dreaming how to improve stoppers to qualify for Euro brake-standards.

Edited June 9, 2009 by katabeachbum

[Plus]

I seriously doubt they sold Sportriders in Europe, ever.

[katabeachbum]

I seriously doubt they sold Sportriders in Europe, ever.

Who are they?

The world has been crowded with Toyota Hilux since the 80s, including Sportsrider/Sportscruiser 2003/2004 with ABS. If you want one of them to be registered in EU, you need a brake test.

Isuzu Dmax ABS 72 meters. Why? Cause only 3 sensor ABS.

[Plus]

You mean to say that Toyota Hilux sold all over the world for decades didn't pass EU brake test? Or only Hiluxes imported from Thailand?

I'm still pretty sure they didn't export Sportriders. I can't find any second hand Sportriders on UK used car sites, for examples.

And yes, it was most likely due to safety issues.

"They" is Toyota.

[Presto]

So it seems to boil down to a choice between safety+road handling+expensive maintenance (Volvo) vs. ruggedness+economy+trucklike ride (Sportrider or equivalents). A rock and a hard place?

Since Im not willing to buy a new car, thats what it seems to be at first glance. Or maybe 2nd hand prices of Fortuners will come down a bit, they seem like a fair compromise.

5 year old Sportriders do have multiple airbags I hope?

[ozsamurai]

Volvo. For Life! Easy choice..

Oz

[Plus]

Only dirver's airbag on Sportriders.

safety+road handling+expensive maintenance (Volvo) vs. ruggedness+economy+trucklike ride (Sportrider or equivalents).

Yes, but things like expensive maintanance will hit you for sure, while safety advantages are a matter of chance. Sportdriders are undesctructable and heavy, it's hard to get yourself killed in one, at Thai speeds anyway, and so goes for handling.

I don't think they are actually comparable - station wagon and a genuine seven seater.

[katabeachbum]

You mean to say that Toyota Hilux sold all over the world for decades didn't pass EU brake test? Or only Hiluxes imported from Thailand?

I'm still pretty sure they didn't export Sportriders. I can't find any second hand Sportriders on UK used car sites, for examples.

And yes, it was most likely due to safety issues.

"They" is Toyota.

Hiluxes sold al over the world have passed EU brake tests. I compared the brakes between Volvo V70, which brakes excellently, and Hilux wgich brakes like most pickups/pickupsuvs.

Most Hilux sold in Uk and EU are made in South Africa, not Thailand. I have friends in EU who still drive 2003-2004 2/4 doors pickup called Sportsrider/Sportscruiser. 3,0 D4d ABS. Purchased from Toyota dealers.

Anyway I think OP has recieved enough info to make a desicion on what vehicle to get, so it doesnt really matter what you think Toyota has sold in Europe. Australia and New Zealand is crowded with Hilux Sportsrider/Sportscruiser made in LOS, so I guess your wrong about Toyota Thailand exporting too.

[Plus]

I think you confuse Sportrider the OP was talking about with a pickup truck. It is an SUV, truck based, but still and SUV, with SUV body and three rows of seats.

They are unique to Thailand, never been assembled or exported anywhere else.

They were designed to take advantage of low taxes on pickup assembly and public demand for SUVs, as investing or importing proper SUVs was not competitive. At that time Toyota was selling smaller RAV4 for 1.6mil here.

Braking power and other features are shared with Thai build Hilux Tigers that were indeed sold all over the world, and I bet it brakes better than a loaded Tiger as it still weighs less.

[TVmonitor]

If you're concerned with passive safety stay well away from the Sportrider - it can't compare with Volvo

[Plus]

Correct.

It's also a question of how much value one should put on safety. Even if selling price is the same, it's a good idea to estimate how much the maintance would increase that price over the years, or, conversly, how old must be the Volvo to cost the same as Sportrider after five years of driving.

Or one could think that it's the upfront money that matters, and regular maintance is affordable, even if it seems like a lot when all totalled up.

Should really go to Thai boards to read what people say about ten year old Volvo V70, you'll get good summary of costs and troubles and advanrages. Thai specs might be different to the rest of the world, so experience in the US is not the same, especially comparing to the rest of the car market. I mean it could be slow by western standards but more than adequate for Thailand, or vice versa, if engines are different.

[Presto]

The OP is happy with the opinions and facts offered by you all .... but the rock and the hard place are still firmly in place of course!

Some more thoughts.

In my experience, expensive maintenance with the Volvo 850/S70/V70 comes with higher mileage (from lets say 200.000 kms) and not age itself. So a 10-year old low-mileage V70 could be a good deal. Of course I have no idea how much maintenance in Thailand would cost, but certainly more than for a Toyota.

I'm not looking for high-performance in a car in Thailand; I'm happy with my chip-tuned S70R over here in Holland, 300+ bhp is quite adequate, and I have a stack of speeding tickets to prove it. Since I will be moving to the land of sabai sabai, those 300 horses will not be needed anymore. I've seen V70 2.4T for sale, thats a good engine no worries.

Plus, what Thai boards are you referring to? Not in Thai language I hope?

To illustrate my muddled decision making: I'm now looking (on the web) into 1997 Isuzu Trooper, 3.2 l V6 petrol engine. Seems an indestructable car, with relatively good road manners. And lots of Isuzu service point around of course.

[katabeachbum]

I think you confuse Sportrider the OP was talking about with a pickup truck. It is an SUV, truck based, but still and SUV, with SUV body and three rows of seats.

They are unique to Thailand, never been assembled or exported anywhere else.

They were designed to take advantage of low taxes on pickup assembly and public demand for SUVs, as investing or importing proper SUVs was not competitive. At that time Toyota was selling smaller RAV4 for 1.6mil here.

Braking power and other features are shared with Thai build Hilux Tigers that were indeed sold all over the world, and I bet it brakes better than a loaded Tiger as it still weighs less.

My neighbor has a 7 seat SUV/ actually called van in Australia/ with a 3000cc petrolengine, identical to Sportsrider/Sportscruiser. Its imported secondhand from Australia (embassy employee), made in Thailand. So I guess it was exported from here at some time. But whatever, I dont care.

Sportsrider and Sportscruiser brakes identically with same total weight, cause they are technical identical, except for body behind center of 2nd row seats. But whatever, I dont care.

I just like facts

Edited June 11, 2009 by katabeachbum

[Plus]

Thai language boards, of course. Find someone interested enough to read a couple for you. Panthip.com would be a good place to start.

There has never been a 3,000 cc petrol engine in Sportriders, and they were never called vans. If you go to Australian used car websites, they don't have a "Sportrider" entry under Toyota models at all.

Sportrider/Sportcruiser brakes should be identical anyway. So was it Toyota made Hiluxes that failed Euro brake tests? That's the only thing that is really important. I googled it and saw some site mention 42m from 80km/h, but I didn't bookmark it.

>>>

Isuzu Trooper is very very fuel thirsty. Once we were considering it but were told not to buy it by the seller himself, it was a friendly advice, he was a collegue. Besides, I doubt it has enough actual power for the size, despite large displacement.

Another option in that category is Mitsu G-wagon. It had some nice reviews as an all-round package. There were also pickup based SUVs from Nissan and Isuxu but no one was raving about them.

[katabeachbum]

Thai language boards, of course. Find someone interested enough to read a couple for you. Panthip.com would be a good place to start.

There has never been a 3,000 cc petrol engine in Sportriders, and they were never called vans. If you go to Australian used car websites, they don't have a "Sportrider" entry under Toyota models at all.

Sportrider/Sportcruiser brakes should be identical anyway. So was it Toyota made Hiluxes that failed Euro brake tests? That's the only thing that is really important. I googled it and saw some site mention 42m from 80km/h, but I didn't bookmark it.

>>>

Isuzu Trooper is very very fuel thirsty. Once we were considering it but were told not to buy it by the seller himself, it was a friendly advice, he was a collegue. Besides, I doubt it has enough actual power for the size, despite large displacement.

Another option in that category is Mitsu G-wagon. It had some nice reviews as an all-round package. There were also pickup based SUVs from Nissan and Isuxu but no one was raving about them.

Plus, please go back and read my posts. Im gonna be rude with you, Hilux NEVER FAILED EURO BRAKE TEST. 42 meter from 80 kmh seems correct, thats when the very small Hilux brakes starts to fade, ending at approx 70 meters from 100 kmh depending on load. Allowed load not same in every country.

Eu brake tests are not 80 kmh for passanger cars. Only trucks larger than 3.500 kg/speedlimit 80 kmh/ speedrecorder, get away with 80 kmh brake tests.

Sportsrider/ Sportscruiser are "stickernames". They are both named Hilux in reg book. I guess you r searching wrong names. Seems like your info comes from websites and my comes from actual people I have contact with all over the world. But then I m not much of a computerguy. Try to search for Toyota 7 seats. Or leave your computer for 2 months and see Hilux all over the world. Similar task, find MB w210, e 220 CDi 7 seats, 2001-2003 modelyear. Or Honda CRV 7 seats, 2003.

OP

Isuzu Trooper 3,2 is a rare one (parts), and engines are normally replaced with something else when they brake down. Expect higher running costs than Volvo

Mitsu G wagon is in some ways more modern than Hilux, and you should get a good 2,8D at 4-500k.

[Plus]

You are just confusing.

So Hilux can pass Euro brake test but Sportrider/Sportcruiser which has the same brakes as Hilux cannot???

>>>

I've never heard of Sportriders being exported anywhere. I can't find any evidence that they have been.

http://www.jim4x4.com/toyota-hilux-tiger.html

"In addition, Toyota manufactured several unique models in Thailand, including the Sport-Rider, among others. Sports Rider was a SUV built on Hilux platform."

I would give you a benefit of doubt, but not if you blindly insist on something and threaten with being rude if you don't get it your way.

>>>

As far as this thread is concerned, if Sportrider has the same brakes, and weighs about as half loaded pickup truck it's based on, it should be enough.