Thailand's International Image, Just Sex Tourism?

[thailandlover]

It seems like half of the stories about Thailand that make the international news are about its sex tourism image and industry.

Do you think the David Carradine death will contribute to this bad image or do you think most people will assume he would have done it anywhere and not equate it with Thailand alone?

[Jingthing]

I don't think the Caradine case hurts Thailand. His hotel room could have been anywhere.

[jumnien]

If you are under the illusion that sex tourism is the only thing that attracts tourists to Thailand just visit Hua Hin and watch all the elderly Scandinavian couples prancing about.

[IanForbes]

Sex makes the world go round. Anything of a sexual nature sells. You see it on billboards, in magazines, on television, in advertising and in newspapers. People eat it up. The puritans of the world are so hung up on their own sexuality that they have to denigrate others. Anything a bit out of the ordinary is always blown up in the press.

It really is too bad that the private details of David Carradine's death had to be published. I say shame on whomever first told the inside story and leaked it to the press. However, I highly doubt that his death will tarnish the image of Thailand. There are already too many foreigners who have no idea what really goes on in Thailand, or what Thailand is really like, and only want to believe the bad stuff.

[Ohio]

A Part of Thailands Image is SLEAZE & will always be. Carradines mode of death will make no difference either way.

[jaideeguy]

People will see what they want and make their own opinions dispite the fact that David [RIP] went on a shopping spree to buy bondage and sex paraphenalia in L.A. before comming here.

If he had stuck to 'run of the mill' BKK sex, maybe he would still be with us????

[samran]

If you are under the illusion that sex tourism is the only thing that attracts tourists to Thailand just visit Hua Hin and watch all the elderly Scandinavian couples prancing about.

unfortunately most people don't think of Hua Hin when they think of Thailand.

They don't know it, but people automatically associate images of Pattaya, Patpong etc with Thailand.

The only market I beleive which doesn't, are the younger backpackers, who in the main, see Thailand as an essential part of their tourist trail through Asia. For them, wild parties at full moon and excellent beaches the main attractions.

Edited June 11, 2009 by samran

[waza]

Sex isnt what origanally brought me to Thailand, it was the sights, beaches and cheap prices. I wasnt even aware of that side of Thailand. Now I have seen the sights, the beaches are too dirty to swim in and the price keep going up, but I keep coming back. The David Carradine episode doesnt put me off, just seems par for the course now.

Edited June 11, 2009 by waza

[bonobo]

Most reports I have read indicate that 10% of Thailand's visitors are sex tourists (sex tourists being defined as people who only come for the sex). I actually think this number is fairly accurate with the caveat that others come for other reasons, but might experience the sex side as well.  For example, a person may come for the golf, but might also hit a bar or two after the day's round.  I would say that maybe 50% of the foreign businessmen who have visted our factory have indulged in that aspect of Thailand, even though their purpose to come here was for business.

Regardless of the actual number, the perception of Thailand is far more heavily weighted as a sex destination.  I am just thowing out a number here, but maybe 50% of the people who travel would think of Thailand as a sex destination rather than a food/beach/temple/golf/cultural destination.

For them, Mr. Carradine's unfortunate death would not change their preception, but rather bolster it. This despite the fact that if Mr. Carradine's death is as reported in the news, it really has nothing to do with the sleaze factor for Thailand.  He could have done the same in Jeddah.

For the people who don't consider Thailand a sex destination, I doubt that Mr. Carradine's death will have any effect on their perceptions.

[jerrylee]

It seems like half of the stories about Thailand that make the international news are about its sex tourism image and industry.

Do you think the David Carradine death will contribute to this bad image or do you think most people will assume he would have done it anywhere and not equate it with Thailand alone?

Not really, Thailand's image is about Rice and Buddhism.

[Birdman]

If you are under the illusion that sex tourism is the only thing that attracts tourists to Thailand just visit Hua Hin and watch all the elderly Scandinavian couples prancing about.

unfortunately most people don't think of Hua Hin when they think of Thailand.

They don't know it, but people automatically associate images of Pattaya, Patpong etc with Thailand.

The only market I beleive which doesn't, are the younger backpackers, who in the main, see Thailand as an essential part of their tourist trail through Asia. For them, wild parties at full moon and excellent beaches the main attractions.

For the millions of package tourists Thailand is an exotic place full with culture, temples, beautiful landscapes, good food, shopping and nice beaches.

[Scott]

I didn't come for the sex, but it sure kept me here!

As for David's death negatively affecting the country, I highly doubt it. I think what is affected is his legacy and his family. The geographical location of his death is of little importance. If anything, it will add to the idea of Thailand as being a mystic and exotic place.

Now rumors of him being murdered will have a negative effect.

[imaneggspurt]

It seems like half of the stories about Thailand that make the international news are about its sex tourism image and industry.

Do you think the David Carradine death will contribute to this bad image or do you think most people will assume he would have done it anywhere and not equate it with Thailand alone?

Not really, Thailand's image is about Rice and Buddhism.

This quote from married men coming to visit i take it,.

[JamDown]

He could have done the same in Jeddah.

In Jeddah? Maybe you know more interesting places in Jeddah than I saw when I was there.

What is ruining Thailand's image is its political problems, not the sex tourism angle. This red versus yellow shirt protests havdone far more damage to Thailand's international image than any issues with sex tourism.

Mr Carradine's death is tragic, but most people are relieved it was not suicide. Just that he happened to meet up with an unusually strong Katoey. I hope he was having a good time before he departed.

[eek]

It seems like half of the stories about Thailand that make the international news are about its sex tourism image and industry.

Do you think the David Carradine death will contribute to this bad image or do you think most people will assume he would have done it anywhere and not equate it with Thailand alone?

I didnt notice so much about that side in International news, to be honest. What I see in the International news about Thailand is its political problems, talk of human rights abuse, insurgency, reports of tourists going missing/getting sick/illnesses/dying, and occasional reports of pedophilia. I dont recall noticing anything particularly reported about the sex tourism side, although of course most seem to know.

I dont think David Carradine's death has done anything to contribute to the bad image really, mainly because it seems he died alone, in a respectable hotel, without any real reference to Thailands 'nightlife' (or any talk of him being around that side of Thailand on his trip here either). The only bad thing regarding Thailands image that his death may contribute to, imo, is people thinking "Thailand again?!". Just that there has been quite a bit of negative press, so anything shocking or negative may add to an overall negative picture in peoples minds (particularly how the police/forensics etc may be portrayed.)

[Lancelot]

Regardless of the actual number, the perception of Thailand is far more heavily weighted as a sex destination.  I am just thowing out a number here, but maybe 50% of the people who travel would think of Thailand as a sex destination rather than a food/beach/temple/golf/cultural destination.

I agree.

When I return home and the subject of Thailand is discussed, most people react in onw of two ways: 1) Don't know and don't care, and 2) give me the "We know what you've been doing look..."

I see many couples and families in Pattaya

[AndyBlueEyes]

I don't know if the publicity about David Carradine will hurt Thailand but it sure isn't going to do anything to enhance Thailand's already somewhat tarnished reputation in the West. I try to read at least 4 western newspapers everyday and on the very few occasions that I find an article about Thailand, it is usually about government instability, corruption, islamic violence in the south, sex tourism or prostitution. Most of the expats in Thailand probably enjoy the comparatively cheap prices compared to the west so be careful what you wish for with regards to the reputation and desirabilty of Thailand because if LOS was a tremendously desired travel destination for well off travelers, I am sure the prices would soon rise accordingly to accomodate the increased demand.

[Ulysses G.]

I didn't come for the sex, but it sure kept me here!

An VERY honest moderator!

[bravingbangkok]

I do not think it has any one image, it is a more of a country that has a flavour for everyone.

[patklang]

When most of my friends talk about my early retirement in Pattaya,they actualy talk about Bangkok as the sleaze area and not Pattaya or Thailand in general.Most of the sex industry on the tv/news etc relate to Bangokok more than anywhere

[camerata]

In Carradine death Thailand's sex caricature endures

By Greg Barrett

When Kung <deleted> star David Carradine died last Thursday, I wasn't surprised. He was 72. When I read how he'd died -- hanging naked in a closet with a rope tied around his genitals, wrist and throat -- I was surprised only at the suspected cause of death: auto-erotic asphyxiation.

The location of death, however, no shocker. Bangkok. The Thai capital isn't exactly known for the missionary position. The city and the nation are (in)famous for things recreational, not conventional.

That's more or less what I told a New York City consulting firm hired by the Royal Thai Government. The firm had phoned to interview me two months before Carradine's death. A representative explained that Thailand's policymakers wanted an assessment of the country's global image. How is Thailand viewed by foreigners and how much polish is needed to make it shine world class? Having written a book on Bangkok's famous slum priest, a cursing, blunt American Catholic known as Khun Phaw Joe ("Mister Father Joe"), my opinion apparently warranted a phone call and a modest honorarium.

Full story here.

[MrHammer]

Well Thailand is known for many things around the world and sex and prostitution is on the top for sure. Lets not kid ourselves, Thailand IS the number one destination for sex tourism in the world, among other Asians, Middle Easterners, Europeans, Americans.

[anothertorres]

Carradine had a fetish that was most likely going to kill him no matter where he hung his rope (to his junk). anyone who associates his death with the darker side of Thailand surely hasn't ventured outside of their own country much less their own gossip-rags.

[sassienie]

It seems like half of the stories about Thailand that make the international news are about its sex tourism image and industry.

Do you think the David Carradine death will contribute to this bad image or do you think most people will assume he would have done it anywhere and not equate it with Thailand alone?

The Western media will lap this up.

When my Thai wife and I first married 22 years ago in England, she used to sieve in anger at the way Thailand was portrayed on UK TV and I doubt if things have changed much.

Most of the documentaries about Thailand shown in Britain either depicted dirt poor peasants, bar girls or sex tourist bar crawlers.

Very rarely was anything showing Thailand in a positive light ever broadcast.

[Pierrot]

It seems like half of the stories about Thailand that make the international news are about its sex tourism image and industry.

Do you think the David Carradine death will contribute to this bad image or do you think most people will assume he would have done it anywhere and not equate it with Thailand alone?

The Western media will lap this up.

When my Thai wife and I first married 22 years ago in England, she used to sieve in anger at the way Thailand was portrayed on UK TV and I doubt if things have changed much.

Most of the documentaries about Thailand shown in Britain either depicted dirt poor peasants, bar girls or sex tourist bar crawlers.

Very rarely was anything showing Thailand in a positive light ever broadcast.

What do you want them to talk about? Thailand's thriving hi-tech industry ? its sizzling cultural life ? Honestly, when people talk about the "magical kingdom" it's not Thailand they have in mind.

Indonesia has Bali; Cambodia, Angkor Wat; Vietnam, Halong Bay; Thailand has Pattaya !

The only advantage Thailand has among the above mentioned countries is Thailand is a relatively safe, modern, developed place. But it won't last, they're catching fast.

A lot of high earning expat are looking for a base in Asia, Thailand has many advantage but if it doesn't evolved fast as an international business friendly place ... well ... Thailand will still have Pattaya.

[samran]

It seems like half of the stories about Thailand that make the international news are about its sex tourism image and industry.

Do you think the David Carradine death will contribute to this bad image or do you think most people will assume he would have done it anywhere and not equate it with Thailand alone?

The Western media will lap this up.

When my Thai wife and I first married 22 years ago in England, she used to sieve in anger at the way Thailand was portrayed on UK TV and I doubt if things have changed much.

Most of the documentaries about Thailand shown in Britain either depicted dirt poor peasants, bar girls or sex tourist bar crawlers.

Very rarely was anything showing Thailand in a positive light ever broadcast.

What do you want them to talk about? Thailand's thriving hi-tech industry ? its sizzling cultural life ? Honestly, when people talk about the "magical kingdom" it's not Thailand they have in mind.

Indonesia has Bali; Cambodia, Angkor Wat; Vietnam, Halong Bay; Thailand has Pattaya !

The only advantage Thailand has among the above mentioned countries is Thailand is a relatively safe, modern, developed place. But it won't last, they're catching fast.

A lot of high earning expat are looking for a base in Asia, Thailand has many advantage but if it doesn't evolved fast as an international business friendly place ... well ... Thailand will still have Pattaya.

I agree mate. But.....

when you want to plant a new garden you must dig out the weeds first.

Thailand, and in particular bangkok, needs a media loving, larger than life Governor who for the first 4 years of his/her term spends their entire time in front of international media pulling down farang orientated bars, brothels, arresting both the prositutes and the punters, basically scaring off anyone who is even vauguely interested in travelling here to visit that aspect of Bangkok.

Then, and only then, is it possible to hang a 'open for business' sign out for international investors. Impressions are important. They need to be changed first before you can do anything about the rest of it...

Edited June 12, 2009 by samran

[Pierrot]

when you want to plant a new garden you must dig out the weeds first.

Thailand, and in particular bangkok, needs a media loving, larger than life Governor who for the first 4 years of his/her term spends their entire time in front of international media pulling down farang orientated bars, brothels, arresting both the prositutes and the punters, basically scaring off anyone who is even vauguely interested in travelling here to visit that aspect of Bangkok.

Then, and only then, is it possible to hang a 'open for business' sign out for international investors. Impressions are important. They need to be changed first before you can do anything about the rest of it...

The problem is if you don't offer an alternative to all the bar / hotel / restaurant owners, their employees and dependents, it won't work. You can't say, you will be out of job for 4 years but then it will get better, they won't wait that long. It has to be done simultaneously.

The situation is not that bad, even Pattaya has its nice side. Curb overstay and visa run in a progressive manner, ease the LEGAL stay of professionals and things will get better by themselves. But for this, Thailand needs to realize that to get the foreigners they court, it need to give them equal rights compare to Thais. Is Thailand ready for that? Not so sure.

[samran]

when you want to plant a new garden you must dig out the weeds first.

Thailand, and in particular bangkok, needs a media loving, larger than life Governor who for the first 4 years of his/her term spends their entire time in front of international media pulling down farang orientated bars, brothels, arresting both the prositutes and the punters, basically scaring off anyone who is even vauguely interested in travelling here to visit that aspect of Bangkok.

Then, and only then, is it possible to hang a 'open for business' sign out for international investors. Impressions are important. They need to be changed first before you can do anything about the rest of it...

The problem is if you don't offer an alternative to all the bar / hotel / restaurant owners, their employees and dependents, it won't work. You can't say, you will be out of job for 4 years but then it will get better, they won't wait that long. It has to be done simultaneously.

The situation is not that bad, even Pattaya has its nice side. Curb overstay and visa run in a progressive manner, ease the LEGAL stay of professionals and things will get better by themselves. But for this, Thailand needs to realize that to get the foreigners they court, it need to give them equal rights compare to Thais. Is Thailand ready for that? Not so sure.

I'm being incredibly pragmatic, cause I'm talking about image, and not the exact reality. If you could close down nana, lower sukhumvit, cowboy, and sell it as an 'end of an era, Thailand is moving on' to the world media, I'm guessing that would be enough to start the image change in peoples minds.

Most hotels and people in the tourist sector don't even cater to that demographic, so I don't think you are going to see many problems bar a few more sick bufallo's.

As for the rest of it, visa situation, 100% agree, but it is a huge uphill battle, and to be honest, needs to be done with stealth. Also to take into consideration, I know quite a few successful foreign businesses here who get on fine with the current rules. Sure they are clunky, but not too onerous so as they take their business elsewhere.

Based on that, I'm more convinced that if you change the image, there is already a fairly welcoming structure to take advantage of (but yes, more can be done).

[Oberkommando]

The only market I beleive which doesn't, are the younger backpackers, who in the main, see Thailand as an essential part of their tourist trail through Asia. For them, wild parties at full moon and excellent beaches the main attractions.

Which Thailand has been doing its best to alienate in recent years, with limits on visa exempt stamps and the announcement they were looking for a better class of tourist.

I visit Cambodia, Vietnam and Laos frequently and most of the backpackers I speak to have had enough of Thailand and are seeking more adventurous and untrodden territory.

Thailand, and in particular bangkok, needs a media loving, larger than life Governor who for the first 4 years of his/her term spends their entire time in front of international media pulling down farang orientated bars, brothels, arresting both the prositutes and the punters, basically scaring off anyone who is even vauguely interested in travelling here to visit that aspect of Bangkok.

Bangkok doesn't have much of substance to offer other than the sex industry and closing it down would kill the few tourists that it still attracts.

Might make a few bitter, conservative, holier-than-though, moralising Thais feel better about themselves though.

[Birdman]

You guys are too much involved in the bar scene. You do not know about the hordes of tourists which visit Wat Phra Kaeo, Wat Arun, Budhamonton, the Floating Market, Wat Po, Traimitr, Ayuthaya, the Klongs, the crocodile farm, Damnoen Saduak...day by day. Big tour groups flock to Bangkok for that daily from Asia and Europe. And none of that package tourists is interested in the bar scene at all.

Of course they don't write their comments here on this expat forum. But if you would read the major tourist forums on the net, you would get a completely other picture of personal views from Bangkok. No one mentions bgs and piss ups.

Edited June 12, 2009 by Birdman