Hsbc Start Online International Bank Transfers

[chiang mai]

Thanks for the explanation, Chiang Mai... Now I understand what you're doing... with Premier... In the U.S., fyi, if you don't meet their $100,000 minimum balance requirement, the monthly maintenance fee is $50 to keep Premier status... a bit expensive for the benefits offered.

It does seem, though, that some of the other posters above are doing some different thing with HSBC UK, since they're talking about paying 17 pounds per international transfer initiated online. Your transfers from HSBC to HSBC in Thailand, with Premier. are free of fees.

The monthly fee in Thailand, if you fall below the threshold, is Baht 2,000 month and in Hong Kong it's HKD 380 month. I haven't done the costing for a years worth of activities but it would include about three international funds transfers per year, improved exchange rates on transfers (preferred rate), ability to pay credit card charges in local currency rather than in a foreign currency and the opportunity cost of being able to chose the date and time of day for currency conversion. Of significant value to me personally is the ability to exchange currencies on line in Hong Kong in real time and at minimum spreads. Intangible benefits are that I have someone on the end of the phone 24/7 if I have a problem and they do respond well - it also negates the need for a second back up account in the case of lost cards etc since that telephone call means they will cover all my costs until new cards are received. In summary, Premier may not be the absolutely cheapest way to go but it is very cost effective, all aspects considered.

[SantiSuk]

Yes - I should have pointed out with my examples above that I am an HSBC UK Premier customer. I'm not sure what the requirements are to get one, but my balance is typically and on average less than £40,000, probably half that - and I do not get monthly charges. But I do have my monthly early retirement allowance going in there (and then typically out again!).

Also you do get some valuable freebies - I rely on their free worldwide insurance for trips less than 31 days for instance - and it did pay out when the hotel staff stole money and an i-Pod from my Thai hotel safe 9 months ago. Also I'm status conscious (a bit too much for my own liking) so I value having a separate line to call with a bank manager, except he is always on his answerphone and you get called back by the 'normal' staff!! I like it when the counter staff say a special welcome to our Premier customer - oh you shallow shallow person you.

Anyway - thanks to Chiang Mai for posting details about the Global linked accounts. I was aware of these, but the info that you can easily transfer the bahts remotely once it arrives in LoS (important for us Issan trogs) was useful and I shall definitely look at opening one soon, depending on the cost of any incremental fees for maintaining an HSBC account in Thailand. Maybe i will end up -Wishing I'd done it before I built the house (not literally) and bought the car.

If the international transfers to other banks and global linked accounts are indeed only available to HSBC Premier customers that weds me even more to keeping my current account arrangements with HSBC and I think it would be worth other Brits (or others where HSBC operates) checking out the local qualification requirements.

Edited October 19, 2009 by SantiSuk

[jfchandler]

Thanks Santisuk for adding in more info on this...

It's interesting that you don't seem to be meeting what are the UK balance requirements for Premier, 50K pounds (about $81,500 U.S.) As I mentioned above, the minimum in the U.S. is $100,000. And the amount for Thailand that Chiang Mai mentioned, 3m baht, is close to that... But... you mentioned that HSBC is not charging you any kind of monthly maintenance fee.

Here's what the UK HSBC Premier web site says about eligibility:

Am I eligible?

HSBC Premier is available free of charge to:

* Customers with savings or investments of at least £50,000 with HSBC Bank plc. We request that your annual income is paid into your HSBC Premier Bank Account

or

* Customers who have an individual annual income of at least £100,000 which is paid into their Premier Bank Account and are a customer of our Independent Financial Advisory Service*

*excluding mortgage related insurance products

It's also interesting that they say they don't charge an HSBC fee for foreign ATM withdrawals, but they do say they charge a 2.75% "exchange rate adjustment charge" on foreign currency withdrawals... That's a bit of a steep fee... just for using a non-HSBC ATM in another country.

And indeed, the HSBC web site for Thailand says their minimum relationship balance for Premier status is 3 million baht combined balance.

What's more interesting, though, is if/whether HSBC doesn't really end up enforcing those balance minimums, without then resorting to charging those folks the monthly maintenance fee.

Edited October 19, 2009 by jfchandler

[chiang mai]

I have always wondered what would happen if I were to close my account in Hong Kong, that's the one that measures and monitors me for paid or unpaid Premier membership, would the other branches where I have Premier accounts find out and how long would it take. In case that doesn't make sense to someone, once you have the first Premier account in any given country, additional Premier accounts can easily be opened free of charge, in other countries and the fee in the new countries is waived.

[SantiSuk]

Thanks Santisuk for adding in more info on this...

It's interesting that you don't seem to be meeting what are the UK balance requirements for Premier, 50K pounds (about $81,500 U.S.) As I mentioned above, the minimum in the U.S. is $100,000. And the amount for Thailand that Chiang Mai mentioned, 3m baht, is close to that... But... you mentioned that HSBC is not charging you any kind of monthly maintenance fee.

Here's what the UK HSBC Premier web site says about eligibility:

Am I eligible?

HSBC Premier is available free of charge to:

* Customers with savings or investments of at least £50,000 with HSBC Bank plc. We request that your annual income is paid into your HSBC Premier Bank Account

or

* Customers who have an individual annual income of at least £100,000 which is paid into their Premier Bank Account and are a customer of our Independent Financial Advisory Service*

*excluding mortgage related insurance products

It's also interesting that they say they don't charge an HSBC fee for foreign ATM withdrawals, but they do say they charge a 2.75% "exchange rate adjustment charge" on foreign currency withdrawals... That's a bit of a steep fee... just for using a non-HSBC ATM in another country.

And indeed, the HSBC web site for Thailand says their minimum relationship balance for Premier status is 3 million baht combined balance.

What's more interesting, though, is if/whether HSBC doesn't really end up enforcing those balance minimums, without then resorting to charging those folks the monthly maintenance fee.

Hmmm - perhaps they are about to cut me off!

I do pay my annual income into HSBC and it meets that other minimum requirement mentioned, but I am not a customer of their (or any other) financial advisory service - that's partly why I can afford to retire early to Thailand (because I look after my own affairs and don't give it away to advisory firms who are staffed by young graduates with no experience and who cannot even match a general market benchmark). My average balances used to be above £40,000 but since moving to Thailand they are now nearer £20,000.

Perhaps once you are in the club they have a certain amount of loyalty to you. Oh, sorry I just slipped into a dream world!!

[Lite Beer]

Only wish I could do the same with my Nationwide account.

Chris

You can now but you need the Card Reader.

[PattayaParent]

Ahhh!!!! OK Chiang Mai.... You finally said the magic word.... HSBC Premier....

Yes, of course, I believe for quite a long time, HSBC has offered its Premier accounts the ability to move funds online to different HSBC accounts in different countries. I don't believe there's anything new about that. I don't believe that online transfer capacity, however, extends to sending funds to NON-HSBC banks in other countries.

<snip>

I DON'T have a HSBC Premier account and I've been transferring funds online from my regular HSBC account to non HSBC banks in other countries (Korea, Thailand, Viet Nam) for the 6 years that I've had the account.

Edit: Just register for Internet Banking and it's one of the drop down options in one of the menus for Transfers.

Edited October 20, 2009 by PattayaParent

[jfchandler]

Pattaya.... what is the home country where your HSBC account is held?

And just to be clear, do you mean a direct transfer online using HSBC Internet banking from your home country to those others you mentioned, initiated and ordered all online? And free, or for some per transaction fee???

I have an HSBC account (non-Premier) with Internet banking in the U.S. I can do as you say for free to any other banks in the U.S. But it has absolutely no capability to do online transfers to banks outside of the U.S.

[chiang mai]

I think you will find that HSBC restricts its transfer services based on local laws and requirements hence the HSBC capabilities in the US will be different from those in say the UK or Thailand. In Thailand for example there is fairly tight control by the central bank over funds transfers both inbound and outbound and the receiving/initiating banks are required to adhere to those BOT rules - restrictions in the UK are less onerous which is why a two step process is sometimes necessary. PP will likely tell us that his HSBC account is in the UK but I shall be interested to understand the charges he pays for transfers to Asia and whether he is transferring GBP or local currencies.

[jfchandler]

I understand your idea, Chiang Mai.... But I'm not sure local laws and requirements explains it... Here's why...

I believe if I was an HSBC Premier account holder in the U.S., I'd be able to use their Global view feature online to move money for free between my HSBC accounts in different countries. I don't have that account, but that was the explanation I received when inquiring about it a couple years ago.

I know from personal experience that Bank of America this year added the capability to do entirely online wire transfers, for a fee, from their regular U.S. accounts to pretty much anywhere in the world. I know, from TV reports here, that Citibank account holders in the U.S. have the ability thru online banking to do international wire transfers as well, for a fee.

If there was something about U.S. laws or regulations that prevented HSBC from offering online international wire transfers (from one bank to a different bank) to its customers in the U.S., then I would think those same kind of restrictions would have prevented BofA and Citibank from doing what they're doing. But obviously, they have not.

I can understand HSBC not wanting to "step on" one of the better perks they give to Premier account holders... moving money for free between HSBC accounts in different countries. But if they're offering that service to regular (non-Premier) customers in the UK for 17 pounds per pop, then why not the U.S.?

[chiang mai]

Almost certainly this has something to do with anti money laundering regulations and the associated reporting requirements, HSBC in the US is a foriegn bank whilst Citi is one of the larger US banks and there's probably a clue there. HSBC to HSBC transfers to different countries still means that funds remain within HSBC Group whereas HSBC to non HSBC accounts in different countries almost certainly has to be reported to some authority, even in the UK. I can't fully understand all of the mechanics of this because I don't understand all the Fed reporting requirements nor the requirements of law enforcement agencies in the UK. But it would be surprising is the reasons were solely based on marketing alone. I recall that about two years ago there was an issue that UK banks needed approval from some UK government agency before UK funds could be transferred to a number of countries on a watch list and Thailand was one of them. The result was that transfers took an awful long time to complete although the rules have now been relaxed or changed somewhat.

[PattayaParent]

Pattaya.... what is the home country where your HSBC account is held?

And just to be clear, do you mean a direct transfer online using HSBC Internet banking from your home country to those others you mentioned, initiated and ordered all online? And free, or for some per transaction fee???

I have an HSBC account (non-Premier) with Internet banking in the U.S. I can do as you say for free to any other banks in the U.S. But it has absolutely no capability to do online transfers to banks outside of the U.S.

My HSBC account is in UK and I have accounts in Sterling and US$ that I can transfer from online.

There is a fee, 35 Quid for Sterling transfers and I think US$65 for $$ transfers.

If I transfer to another HSBC acccount then there is no transfer fee even if for example it is to my Alliance & Leicester savings account as A&L hold their money in a HSBC account.

[dudemeister]

When I transfer through UK telephone banking i get asked the question,

"How do I want to pay the charges? This end, that end, split the charges?"

Can somebody please explain exactly what this is, and what option i should choose.

Note: this is seperate to the 20 GBP charge to use the service.

And i did ask the bank what was best deal for me, but of course in there lies a conflict of interest.

[chiang mai]

When I transfer through UK telephone banking i get asked the question,

"How do I want to pay the charges? This end, that end, split the charges?"

Can somebody please explain exactly what this is, and what option i should choose.

Note: this is seperate to the 20 GBP charge to use the service.

And i did ask the bank what was best deal for me, but of course in there lies a conflict of interest.

As a general rule the charges are cheaper in Thailand. The cost you're being asked about is the cost to wire the funds which as you correctly say is separate from the user fee for the service.

[chiang mai]

Pattaya.... what is the home country where your HSBC account is held?

And just to be clear, do you mean a direct transfer online using HSBC Internet banking from your home country to those others you mentioned, initiated and ordered all online? And free, or for some per transaction fee???

I have an HSBC account (non-Premier) with Internet banking in the U.S. I can do as you say for free to any other banks in the U.S. But it has absolutely no capability to do online transfers to banks outside of the U.S.

My HSBC account is in UK and I have accounts in Sterling and US$ that I can transfer from online.

There is a fee, 35 Quid for Sterling transfers and I think US$65 for $$ transfers.

If I transfer to another HSBC acccount then there is no transfer fee even if for example it is to my Alliance & Leicester savings account as A&L hold their money in a HSBC account.

The A&L account sounds like an offshore UK account, IOM or similar so not really an overseas transfer per se.

[PattayaParent]

^But now maybe I'll open a HSBC account in Bangkok and transfer money there if it's free transfers, then I can transfer the money to my TMB account by ATM.Anyone know the maximum amount that can be transferred by ATM?

[chiang mai]

^But now maybe I'll open a HSBC account in Bangkok and transfer money there if it's free transfers, then I can transfer the money to my TMB account by ATM.Anyone know the maximum amount that can be transferred by ATM?

I might be wrong on this but I'm pretty sure you cannot do interbank transfers in Thailand involving HSBC, using ATM's. I say that because I pay two bills monthly from my HSBC Bangkok account and both go to accounts with Bangkok Bank - the only way that can be done is by setting up a direct debit and the way HSBC does it is almost medieval. HSBC cuts a cashiers cheque which they then courier to Bangkok Bank (granted it's only one block away) for deposit - Bangkok Bank then takes three days to clear the cheque! Really.

[jfchandler]

My HSBC account is in UK and I have accounts in Sterling and US$ that I can transfer from online.

There is a fee, 35 Quid for Sterling transfers and I think US$65 for $$ transfers.

If I transfer to another HSBC acccount then there is no transfer fee even if for example it is to my Alliance & Leicester savings account as A&L hold their money in a HSBC account.

The A&L account sounds like an offshore UK account, IOM or similar so not really an overseas transfer per se.

I'm not versed in the ins and outs of British banking... But above, Pattaya Parent talked, as I understood it, about being able to do direct international transfers online from the UK HSBC account to banks in Vietnam and a couple other Asian countries... And clearly not thru an HSBC Premier account, and not free.

But PP didn't answer my query about whether they are direct, bank-to-bank international transfers only between HSBC and the destination bank, or, as Chiang Mai wondered, sent from HSBC to some intermediary bank and then onward to Asia...

So, it's still not quite clear what kind of transaction is occurring.....

[chiang mai]

My HSBC account is in UK and I have accounts in Sterling and US$ that I can transfer from online.

There is a fee, 35 Quid for Sterling transfers and I think US$65 for $$ transfers.

If I transfer to another HSBC acccount then there is no transfer fee even if for example it is to my Alliance & Leicester savings account as A&L hold their money in a HSBC account.

The A&L account sounds like an offshore UK account, IOM or similar so not really an overseas transfer per se.

I'm not versed in the ins and outs of British banking... But above, Pattaya Parent talked, as I understood it, about being able to do direct international transfers online from the UK HSBC account to banks in Vietnam and a couple other Asian countries... And clearly not thru an HSBC Premier account, and not free.

But PP didn't answer my query about whether they are direct, bank-to-bank international transfers only between HSBC and the destination bank, or, as Chiang Mai wondered, sent from HSBC to some intermediary bank and then onward to Asia...

So, it's still not quite clear what kind of transaction is occurring.....

Two different types of transactions are being discussed, HSBC to HSBC which is free (including the example to HSBC IOM and on to A & L) and HSBC to Asian bank examples for which there is a fee. Sorry if I confused things by guessing at the IOM A&L scenario but that's still a UK transaction really.

[PattayaParent]

My HSBC account is in UK and I have accounts in Sterling and US$ that I can transfer from online.

There is a fee, 35 Quid for Sterling transfers and I think US$65 for $$ transfers.

If I transfer to another HSBC acccount then there is no transfer fee even if for example it is to my Alliance & Leicester savings account as A&L hold their money in a HSBC account.

The A&L account sounds like an offshore UK account, IOM or similar so not really an overseas transfer per se.

I'm not versed in the ins and outs of British banking... But above, Pattaya Parent talked, as I understood it, about being able to do direct international transfers online from the UK HSBC account to banks in Vietnam and a couple other Asian countries... And clearly not thru an HSBC Premier account, and not free.

But PP didn't answer my query about whether they are direct, bank-to-bank international transfers only between HSBC and the destination bank, or, as Chiang Mai wondered, sent from HSBC to some intermediary bank and then onward to Asia...

So, it's still not quite clear what kind of transaction is occurring.....

The transfers from HSBC to Korea, Thailand and Viet Nam have been to local national banks, non-HSBC affiliated, and incur a fee. I don't know how they are routed eg. HSBC UK to HSBC Bangkok to TMB Bangkok then to my TMB account Pattaya, or HSBC UK direct to TMB Bangkok then to my TMB account Pattaya.

The transfers to ALIL in IOM have been free as ALIL funds are held in their HSBC account.

[jfchandler]

Thanks Pattaya Parent...for filling in the details.. That's a nice feature to have, even for a price... Wish more U.S. banks were doing the same... I think they will come around...eventually...

Who wants to go down to the local branch every time, stand in line, fill out a long crappy document by hand, wait around for the bank staff to process it...and then drive home.... when you ought to be able to do it all from the comfort of your home...

[SantiSuk]

I'm pleased to hear that I will still be able to transfer money on-line if my account gets degraded form Premier!

Did a big transfer today (to buy car). Had to be by telephone banking. £26,000 and the lady did not mention charges once, and I forgot to ask. I will tweak their tales when I get the charge and ask them to listen to their tapes to see if I can get it free.

The rate was better than the rate publicised for online transactions - 54.569 cf 53.9548. No idea whether this is any good - I'm not near my usual benchmark plethora of exchange booths in Bangkok. If anyone can demonstrate by reference to some website that I would have been better off sending pounds without having HSBC fix the rate I would be interested in retrospect.

Boy did the telephone banking transaction take a long time - exactly 25 minutes as they bounced me from initial help line to 'payments team' to 'treasury team' (twice - once to fix a rate to offer me then once to confirm it had gone through) and then back around again. Luckily I was on Skype and the 25 mins cost only £1.95. Luckily the TOT internet connection held up throughout.

[jfchandler]

The pound-baht rate quoted Tuesday by Xrates.com was 54.8623. They didn't have a Wednesday rate posted yet, as of Weds. evening. That rate is approximate to the Interbant Exchange Rate, meaning it's about the best you can do. So it serves as a yardstick...

[PattayaParent]

I'm pleased to hear that I will still be able to transfer money on-line if my account gets degraded form Premier!

Did a big transfer today (to buy car). Had to be by telephone banking. £26,000 and the lady did not mention charges once, and I forgot to ask. I will tweak their tales when I get the charge and ask them to listen to their tapes to see if I can get it free.

<snip>

There's a limit on the amount that can be transferred by Internet Banking, around £8,000 last time I tried. Any more and you have to telephone or send a fax, or make the transactions over several days.

[SantiSuk]

I'm pleased to hear that I will still be able to transfer money on-line if my account gets degraded form Premier!

Did a big transfer today (to buy car). Had to be by telephone banking. £26,000 and the lady did not mention charges once, and I forgot to ask. I will tweak their tales when I get the charge and ask them to listen to their tapes to see if I can get it free.

<snip>

There's a limit on the amount that can be transferred by Internet Banking, around £8,000 last time I tried. Any more and you have to telephone or send a fax, or make the transactions over several days.

Yes - my earlier posting was correct on the thai baht limit - 350,000 baht (maybe 349,999 in fact as I discussed), but wrong about the sterling limit. I assumed it would be £10,000, but it is the rough sterling equivalent of the thai baht limit. So a bit less than £8,000.

The exact £ limit - and the baht limit - is posted on the exchange rates website that you can access once you have set up a recipient, and maybe you can find it earlier in the process if you search).

If you want to send more you have to do it over time (I assume you can only do one transaction a day - maybe wrong) and incur charges each time at both ends or do telephone banking which can take up to 30 minutes on the phone

[chiang mai]

Coincidentally I exchanged £10k yesterday (because I had to) at HSBC BKK - sent the email in the morning and got a call in the afternoon saying that the indicative rate would be 54.62 but they were going to wait until later in the day to see if things improved. Finally exchanged at 55.02.

Also checked the HSBC UK transfer costs for overseas transfers and to a non HSBC account outside of the UK the charge is £17.

[jim1563]

10,000 is the limit for on-line transfers 17 pounds the charge sent in sterling

[chiang mai]

10,000 is the limit for on-line transfers 17 pounds the charge sent in sterling

And this received from HSBC Premier UK today:

"There are no limits on the amount you want to transfer online, however there might be a charge for doing a wire transfer...may be £20-30 pounds.The alternative obviously is to issue a cheque which will be free".

[PattayaParent]

After checking with HSBC they told me that my transfer limit is GBP 20,000 or currency equivalent and checking previous transfers the cost has been GBP 35

[SantiSuk]

After checking with HSBC they told me that my transfer limit is GBP 20,000 or currency equivalent and checking previous transfers the cost has been GBP 35

Odd that. Surely if you have the money in your account they should let you transfer it?

I transferred GBP 26,000 this week as stated above. Had GBP 38,000 in the account after transferring in some cash from a non-HSBC savings account. Maybe they are less tough on Premier customers like me.

Cost for the GBP 26,000 was GBP 30 by the way. I wait to see how much Siam Bank take off before they hand it to the Toyota dealer.