Do You Go Sick From Work When You Have A Cold?

[garro]

I notice in our school that quite a lot of the teachers are going sick at the moment. Some people struggle into work despite their sickness, because they know that otherwise somebody else will need to take their classes. I have always been of this second variety. I believe the more you go sick, the more you want to go sick. I actually get a bit irritated when the same people are constantly taking time off for over trivial illness. Am I unfair? Should I be taking to the sickbed too at even the mere suggestion of a sneeze? What do other people think?

[PeaceBlondie]

In my limited experience teaching here, no foreign teacher got sick. We older farang were as tough as leather. The Thai teachers got sick.

[Ijustwannateach]

At the moment, it makes good sense for anyone who suspects they may have the flu to stay home- both to take care of themselves and to avoid infecting others.

If they could be sure it is only a mild cold, then fine. However, given the paranoia over the flu at the moment, I would surprised if their school didn't encourage them to stay home for that reason alone.

[Scott]

I have a tendency to stay at school through thick and thin. I haven't had a sick day for well over 5 years. We have a significant number of teachers, however, who seem to have to take sick leave for anything as traumatic as a broken nail (and these aren't the ladies I am talking about).

The one I often hear is that they don't want the kids to catch what they have. I have been known to tell them that I don't think alcoholism is that contagious.

[garro]

I'm sorry but the idea of staying at home to protect the kids is wrong in my opinion. Most of these infections will have been caught in school anyway. It is generally accepted that, while the easiest time to pass infection is when symptoms are showing (as coughing and sneezing act as a good means of exchange), in practice the most dangerous time is while the symptoms are not yet showing; but the infected person is spreading the disease. When symptoms are evident universal precautions (i.e. hand washing, covering your mouth while you cough are sneeze) will prevent transmission.

It could be argued that not going to work is actually making things worse because; students are more like to catch any infection while play-acting unsupervised rather than sitting at their desks, and that teachers needing to carry the extra burden will become rundown and more susceptible to infection.

No, I'm sorry. I don't see these skivers as having noble motives. They are often just malingering. It always seems to be the same people as well; with some of them I fear the real problem is that they suffer from Munchausen's disease.

Edited June 18, 2009 by garro

[Scott]

In some schools the only learning that goes on is that of the immune system trying to fight off the local infections. Take that away and there isn't much left.

[rixalex]

In some schools the only learning that goes on is that of the immune system trying to fight off the local infections. Take that away and there isn't much left.

That's good for half past eight in the morning!

[BigSnake]

Most teachers don't, 1. to much work 2. Maybe half of the students will get and stay home for a day or so and teacher has a bit of a break to catach up on work. Most schools have Nurses these days some in many case a quick visit with her will do the trick for most teacher. A highly train Nurse SHOULD be able to detect a serious sickness(?)

[garro]

Our school has just had an emergency meeting because so many teachers and students are off sick (many classes have less than half the students today); the local health authority has sent a representative who claims that only 3 of these actually have the flu (and none of these were swine flu). This type of mass hysteria is reminiscent of the dancing disease that once killed a lot of people in Germany.

[Ijustwannateach]

Your school is handling the current flu situation more realistically than many (though I doubt your local health authority has actually personally looked at all of the sick students- sounds like he's been paid to mouth propaganda himself). If ANY students at a government school are diagnosed with the real swine flu, by government order they must close at least a few days (at least in Bangkok).

I am glad to see there are as many workaholics on this thread as there are claimed alcoholics at their schools- but I would point out that sick days are a worker's right, and though I would encourage teachers not to take them unnecessarily, it seems to me when they have a communicable disease it is the best time for them to be taken. Teachers are humans, not machines.

Management types, of course, will find this inconvenient/annoying- but then many managers don't have as much contact with the students who would expose them to disease as actual, hard-working teachers.

On the other hand, if there is a real endemic problem- perhaps raising wages to the point where more professional types would be interested in the job would be the solution.

[Firelily]

> I would point out that sick days are a worker's right, and though I would encourage teachers not to take them unnecessarily, it seems to me when they have a communicable disease it is the best time for them to be taken.

Well, even if it is a non-communicable disease, like a stomach bug, a migraine, serious eye infection, etc, I don't think it is appropriate or wise to go and try to work. That is just going to make recovery longer, and your lessons are going to be crap anyway. Why not take a day or two off, take a rest, get well, go back feeling healthy, rather then linger around at school like a shadow for a week?

[Scott]

I am afraid this thread will move off-topic and get on to sick leave. First of all, sick leave is to be taken when you are sick, it's not an entitlement. Peopel who misuse it are contributing to a very big problem. Last year, what the director of our school did was deduct from the maximum pay raise for every day that a teacher was absent. I don't like that, but it seemed to have worked, since the use of sick leave is WAY DOWN.

Finally, do I stay home for a cold--no. Will I stay home for the flu, maybe, maybe not--it depends on if I feel like I can go to work. Schools are germ factories. If anything is going around it will hit schools first. It's up to the public health ministry to decide if schools should be closed. At least under the present situation where there is censorship of information.

[Ijustwannateach]

Well, as the thread has been framed, I would argue that discussion of what sick days are for is NOT off-topic, as previous posters including OP have indicated they don't exactly feel that people should be taking them. I would suggest that if someone has trouble defining "the flu" as sick that it raises questions about their self-care; and if staying home because of the flu is perceived as an abuse of sick days then it misunderstands what sick days are for- and yes, I'm afraid that their availability is a kind of entitlement (as are a certain number of "personal business days" for weddings, funerals, etc.) in the sense that a worker can't legally be fired for taking them legitimately (though he may not do so well in terms of raises, as noted). I'm not encouraging abuse of these things, but I don't perceive a huge problem of this sort at my school, and as Scott has mentioned there are responses management can legitimately make, i.e. lower raises. For another example, management could require doctors' notes routinely.

Granted, there will be those teachers who abuse the system and need to be- individually- disciplined. On the other hand, there will be types who would go to work if they were dying and can't understand why others don't do the same (hint: it involves self-esteem and self-care as well as consideration for others in the case of communicable diseases). Both types are at undesirable extremes. I can't help but wonder if a school is full of such types as previous posters have complained if the human resources approach doesn't need a bit of reconsideration.

[garro]

If everyone decided to go sick when a cold bug hit then schools,hospitals, and fire stations would need to close for at least a few weeks of the year. It is people who don't take to their bed at the slightest sneeze who keep these services going. Is that fair?

Edited June 19, 2009 by garro

[Jungian]

After the first 2 years working here I was getting sick 2 or 3 times a year, this never happened in the USA and I worked in a huge hospital exposed to illness everyday. I noticed I didn't get sick until everyone else in my department (all Thai) were good and sick. I am really good about washing my hands I mean almost to the point where it can get obsessive at times (it's not obsessive it just looks that way) I developed this habit when I was a hospital resident working in the trauma field where cleanliness is literally a matter of life and death for a patient. To spite the fact I was washing my hands the soap had little to no effect so I started washing my hands as usual and using antibacterial waterless hand cleaner after regular washing at work. I have not been sick since but everyone else still gets sick. Of course I shared my data with them but they were uninterested.

[ivowatson]

Your school is handling the current flu situation more realistically than many . If ANY students at a government school are diagnosed with the real swine flu, by government order they must close at least a few days (at least in Bangkok).

In Phuket, we now have 7 people infected with Mexican flu, the latest being a student in Samut Prakan, falling ill and her school being shut "just was send home". I hope this isn't part of the government order.

[PeaceBlondie]

As IJWT and others point out, we folks with great immune systems keep on truckin' to work, covering classes for our sick coworkers, not realizing that some immune systems don't work well. Malingerers are a different story.

[garro]

I think there is more to it than immune systems. Some people just seem to be able to adobt the role of an invalid faster than others. On the plus side those who put up more of a fight against disease seem to live longer.

[Mosha]

When I started work years back. Attending work while suffering from a cold or other communicable desease, could get you sacked.

[garro]

I think if your employers have rules in regards to not going to work with a cold that is a different matter. I am not aware of any schools that would sack a teacher who arrived in work with a cold.

[Ijustwannateach]

Garro, your point- which you have made again and again- is well taken, but I somehow doubt you are a medical doctor and are qualified to judge who is truly sick in your school and who is not.

The matter is simple, if it is provoking that much of a drama in your school. Require doctor's notes. It is as unprofessional for you to continue name-calling against coworkers whom you are not professionally qualified to judge the health of, as it is for any of those who are not sick to be taking time off.

Or wouldn't the doctor's assurance be enough for you? Are you better qualified to judge?

[garro]

Garro, your point- which you have made again and again- is well taken, but I somehow doubt you are a medical doctor and are qualified to judge who is truly sick in your school and who is not.

The matter is simple, if it is provoking that much of a drama in your school. Require doctor's notes. It is as unprofessional for you to continue name-calling against coworkers whom you are not professionally qualified to judge the health of, as it is for any of those who are not sick to be taking time off.

Or wouldn't the doctor's assurance be enough for you? Are you better qualified to judge?

As this is an anonymous forum I am not name calling anybody. I have posted a general observation in good faith and don't think that this deserve the accusation of the personal type you have made. These type of observations are made all the time on this forum, without this type of response. It is particularly irritating as you are meant to be a moderator.

[Ijustwannateach]

You're right about the personal comment, Garro, so apologies for that. Mods can have opinions (and off-days) too.

[garro]

Forget about it. Perhaps I came across as a bit uncaring. That was not my intention.

[Ijustwannateach]

Thanks. And to be fair, I know that there are a lot of schools out there with a lot of strange and not-always-very-professional teachers... and if they DO misbehave in the way that you and Scott describe, they're not helping the rest of us.

[Scott]

In spite of being a little bit flippant, I very, very seldom ever question someone is really sick or not. If someone calls in sick, I almost always just thank them for calling and hope they are better soon.

[twschw]

This is from the CDC. You can find it pinned in the Swine Flu sub forum of the Health Forum.

_____________________

What can I do to protect myself from getting sick?

There is no vaccine available right now to protect against swine flu. There are everyday actions that can help prevent the spread of germs that cause respiratory illnesses like influenza. Take these everyday steps to protect your health:

Cover your nose and mouth with a tissue when you cough or sneeze. Throw the tissue in the trash after you use it.

Wash your hands often with soap and water, especially after you cough or sneeze. Alcohol-based hand cleaners are also effective.

Avoid touching your eyes, nose or mouth. Germs spread this way.

Try to avoid close contact with sick people.

If you get sick with influenza, CDC recommends that you stay home from work or school and limit contact with others to keep from infecting them.

What is the best way to keep from spreading the virus through coughing or sneezing?

If you are sick, limit your contact with other people as much as possible. Do not go to work or school if ill. Cover your mouth and nose with a tissue when coughing or sneezing. It may prevent those around you from getting sick. Put your used tissue in the waste basket. Cover your cough or sneeze if you do not have a tissue. Then, clean your hands, and do so every time you cough or sneeze.

_____________________

As an Admin member at my school my advice at this time is stay home if you are sick. Yes, it is a pain in the bottom to arrange cover for all the sick teachers but my concern is both teachers and students. I think some here take a rather cavalier attitude twords the health of others.

By the way, we do not punish our teachers for taking sick days. It is in their contracts so it is their right to take days off when sick. If out 3 days or more a report is required from a hospital that the teacher is recovered enough to return to work.

[Scott]

I have no problem with anyone taking sick leave provided they are either sick or injured (and on rare occasions to care for a family member who is).

I am not impressed with people who can't make it in on the day after payday--especially when they have spent most of the day arranging which pub to meet at right after work. I am not impressed with people who announce they are flying somewhere on Friday (and need to leave early to get to the airport), and then Monday they aren't in. I am not impressed with people who come in toward the end of the school year and know how many days they have left to take--and then promptly decide to be sick at unbelievably inconvenient times until it's all gone.

I am imprssed with their colleagues, who willingly cover their classes without complaint.

Sick leave is for medical purposes. It's not holiday time. And by all means it should be used when a person is sick, but not necessarily because they are sick of work.

[garro]

For goodness sake, these regulations are in regards to the current swine flu epidemic. In regards to the normal regular outbreaks of the common cold, there are no such orders. If everyone stopped when they had a cold then civilisation would collapse. If teachers all stay at home then parents can't go to work, and firemen can't put out fires.

I think that it is a bit rich to accuse those who come to work with the sniffles, and take on the extra work caused by abstenteism, of being the bad guys.

The claims that people don't abuse sick days is the real caviller attitude.

Btw I started this thread in order to let off steam due to needing to cover extra classes. I have been making generalizations rather than reffering to particular individuals.

This is from the CDC. You can find it pinned in the Swine Flu sub forum of the Health Forum.

_____________________

What can I do to protect myself from getting sick?

There is no vaccine available right now to protect against swine flu. There are everyday actions that can help prevent the spread of germs that cause respiratory illnesses like influenza. Take these everyday steps to protect your health:

Cover your nose and mouth with a tissue when you cough or sneeze. Throw the tissue in the trash after you use it.

Wash your hands often with soap and water, especially after you cough or sneeze. Alcohol-based hand cleaners are also effective.

Avoid touching your eyes, nose or mouth. Germs spread this way.

Try to avoid close contact with sick people.

If you get sick with influenza, CDC recommends that you stay home from work or school and limit contact with others to keep from infecting them.

What is the best way to keep from spreading the virus through coughing or sneezing?

If you are sick, limit your contact with other people as much as possible. Do not go to work or school if ill. Cover your mouth and nose with a tissue when coughing or sneezing. It may prevent those around you from getting sick. Put your used tissue in the waste basket. Cover your cough or sneeze if you do not have a tissue. Then, clean your hands, and do so every time you cough or sneeze.

_____________________

As an Admin member at my school my advice at this time is stay home if you are sick. Yes, it is a pain in the bottom to arrange cover for all the sick teachers but my concern is both teachers and students. I think some here take a rather cavalier attitude twords the health of others.

By the way, we do not punish our teachers for taking sick days. It is in their contracts so it is their right to take days off when sick. If out 3 days or more a report is required from a hospital that the teacher is recovered enough to return to work.

Edited June 20, 2009 by garro

[markg]

Whilst all the advice about Swine Flu is all well and good, i think there is also a lot of baloney involved and some of the advice is just unrealistic for many asian schools.

For example. Classrooms are often overcrowded. The lunch hall is overcrowded and food is often left out, uncovered for long periods of time. If it comes to one school, we are all pretty much gonna get it.

I don't believe that one person staying home for a while with a cold is going to really have much impact.

I also dont believe that shutting the school to clean everything in it is anything more than bullshit !

My advice is; if you have a cold or fever, then wear a face mask and understand how to use it. (If you touch the mask with your hand, you need to wash your hand !)

2. Airconditioned classrooms. Seriously, they're terrible for limiting the spreading of diseases. Turn off the aircon, open all the doors and windows and turn on the fans. If there are no fans then ask the school to provide some free-standing ones. That is the best way of stopping air-bourne diseases spreading.

As for taking time off? Nah. I've never been too sick to work in the last 5 years. I always ask myself "if i didnt get paid sick leave, would i still go in?" and if the answer is yes then i go in. I'm proud of my sick record. In over 20 years, it's still in single digits. I do understand the argument that sick people are going to be spreading disease around schools, which is why i posted the advice above.