Doctors Claiming To Sell 'vaccine' For Flu Face Ban

[soundman]

Doctors claiming to sell 'vaccine' for flu face ban

By Pongphon Sarnsamak

The Nation

Published on June 19, 2009

Doctors who claim they have a vaccine for the new flu virus could lose their medical licences under penalties proposed by the Medical Council.

Council president Dr Somsak Lohlekha said yesterฌday that no such vaccine was available yet.

The warning comes after a report that doctors at some clinics and private hospitals had advertised that they could provide a vaccine against the new flu virus, prompting many people who fear getting the A (H1N1) virus to crowd at clinฌics and private hospitals to get the "vaccine".

Under Medical Council regulations, doctors who seek to lure patients by causing them to misunderstand their medical services can be put on probation or have their medical licence confiscated as punishment.

"They would face punishment if they try to lure members of public to their service to provide a 'vaccine' injection for the new flu," Somsak said.

He urged doctors around the country to stop providing a testฌing service for the typeA(H1N1) flu virus. He said the tests should be restricted to people most likely to be at risk from the severe flulike illness.

Doctors should also not ask patients with flutype sympฌtoms to stay at hospitals and charge them high prices for treatment.

Somsak said medication at hospitals should be limited to highrisk patients and patients severely ill with flulike symptoms.

Included in this group are children under five, pregnant women and elderly people with chronic conditions like heart disease, high blood pressure and diabetes.

He said patients with mild symptoms of influenza could stay at home for a week and take medicine to reduce any fever. Patients should recover fully and promptly.

Thailand has now 518 confirmed cases of influenza A (H1N1), after 113 new cases reported yesterday. Bangkok has most - 318 patients with the new flu virus.

The World Health Organisation (WHO) has reported 35, 928 cases of influenza A(H1N1) in 76 countries worldwide. Some 163 people have died from the virus.

Dr Somchai Peerapakorn, at the WHO office in Thailand, said the world health body was keeping an eye on the flu pandemic in South America.

He said the WHO feared the typeA(H1N1) flu virus would mix with the common flu spreading in South America and mutate into a form that was more virulent in humans.

"We are worried that the virus will be more virulent and spread to North America if it mixes with the seasonal flu strain in South America. It could mutate again and again, especially in winter," he said.

So, he said every country around the world should report infection cases and outbreak updates to the WHO as the UN's health agencies can monitor and prepare for any global pandemic.

"It would be a bad result if all affected countries around the world hide information," he said.

-- The Nation 2009 06 19

[oevna]

Disgraceful to see doctors capitalizing on people's fear, and in such an unethical way. I wonder what it is that these doctors were giving to their patients?

[Aqualogic]

Disgraceful to see doctors capitalizing on people's fear, and in such an unethical way. I wonder what it is that these doctors were giving to their patients?

That tells you a lot about the lack of ethics here. I heard this locally here in Pattaya yesterday and I was shocked that anyone would be so stupid. But the media are doing a fine job of only reporting a small fraction of the facts and only those that are sensational. mmm

[btunes]

my question is when the vaccine is available is there one that comes without a chip?

[stumonster]

my question is when the vaccine is available is there one that comes without a chip?

they all come with free steak knives and black helicopters

[Nerone]

Disgraceful to see doctors capitalizing on people's fear, and in such an unethical way. I wonder what it is that these doctors were giving to their patients?

If there is something ethical or moral in thai culture please let me know, because I am missing it

[Minniefarang]

As if the Doctors don't have enough money as it already is, driving their new Benz and BMWS. I certainly wouldn't put it past them or any Thai (who doesn't have a stable job) for that fact to make an easy buck off all the sensationalism with the "FLU" hysteria that's going on. Thais are giants in making a "copy' of anything. Hard to figure out what is the real deal sometimes.

[geriatrickid]

Bang on and for once, properly reported. To put in context and provide an explanation to the points, my comments in red.

He urged doctors around the country to stop providing a testฌing service for the typeA(H1N1) flu virus. He said the tests should be restricted to people most likely to be at risk from the severe flulike illness.

This due to the overwhelming of the labs. The samples are being sent to the MoH designated testing oversight facility to confirm diagnosis and those porr people are going nuts dealing with the workload. It's not restricted to thailand either. Every national health agency has the same problem. Legitimate tests are being delayed while non-urgent testing globs up the pipeline.

Doctors should also not ask patients with flutype sympฌtoms to stay at hospitals and charge them high prices for treatment. Somsak said medication at hospitals should be limited to highrisk patients and patients severely ill with flulike symptoms. Included in this group are children under five, pregnant women and elderly people with chronic conditions like heart disease, high blood pressure and diabetes.

Same problem seen elsewhere, except in some countries patients are demanding hospital care. The key issue is that you do not want non acute contagious infections in a hospital since it puts the seriously ill at risk. This is a recommendation not just to protect the consumer but those that are very ill as well.

He said patients with mild symptoms of influenza could stay at home for a week and take medicine to reduce any fever. Provided they are not in contact with others that are susceptible. They are just asking for common sense to prevail.

He said the WHO feared the typeA(H1N1) flu virus would mix with the common flu spreading in South America and mutate into a form that was more virulent in humans. "We are worried that the virus will be more virulent and spread to North America if it mixes with the seasonal flu strain in South America. It could mutate again and again, especially in winter," he said. Unfortunately, the people that were calling this overblown media hype, don't grasp this point.

my question is when the vaccine is available is there one that comes without a chip?

Vaccines are not available. Nothing will be available until late July at best and most likely late August/ September. Clinical trials are needed to ensure no one gets poisoned from vaccines being manufactured now.

Disgraceful to see doctors capitalizing on people's fear, and in such an unethical way. I wonder what it is that these doctors were giving to their patients?

Vitamin B injections usually. These are the same doctors that prescribe antibiotics, viagra etc. on demand. In the west they usually do this in respect to "pain killers' like oxycodone or viagra. It's only a a small number, but boy do they cause damage to people.

[Bagwan]

I suggest that the Health Ministry and Medical Council check out the advertisments that I saw in BPH only this afternoon. Services were offered for a mere 800 baht.

In the matter of doctors with Benzs and BMWs, I know of one doctor who has been working in private hospitals for at least 8 years who lives with his family in a shop house on Pattaya Nua. The percentage of what a hospital charges in relation to what ends up in the sawbones wallet may not be a large as some may think.

[ScubaBuddha]

This is interesting...I have never felt the need to get flu shots. Its pretty rare for me to get sick, but at the urging of my GF I got vaccine injections last week. I was pretty certain there was no vaccine for A/H1/N1 yet, but I went anyway. I asked the lady, "this protect me from the swine flu?" An emphatic "Yeess" was her reply. Lier. I want my 450 baht back.

I suggest that the Health Ministry and Medical Council check out the advertisments that I saw in BPH only this afternoon. Services were offered for a mere 800 baht.

In the matter of doctors with Benzs and BMWs, I know of one doctor who has been working in private hospitals for at least 8 years who lives with his family in a shop house on Pattaya Nua. The percentage of what a hospital charges in relation to what ends up in the sawbones wallet may not be a large as some may think.

Is the shop house a clinic? He needs his own clinic, and to freelance for the big resorts/hotels. That's where they make their money. I know you said private hospital, but a few years ago my doc here told me that all doctors are obliged to put some time in at government hospitals FOR FREE to keep their license. Not sure if there was a required amount of time on that or what.

[KhaoNiaw]

But the media are doing a fine job of only reporting a small fraction of the facts and only those that are sensational.

I don't think that's true. I've seen several Thai TV shows where they've dealt with the virus and they've been very informative, emphasize that there's no need for panic, point out that closing schools is completely unnecessary in most cases etc. etc.

[H2oDunc]

What do you think the big pharmaceutical companies are doing by flogging countries massive amounts of so called vaccines like Tamiflu which has not been proven to do any good. The big companies are making BILLIONS from all these scares. Like Dave, think how many others have gone to get a " Shot " to protect them. As the saying goes. you want to know who is benefiting from all this the " Follow the money "

In the biggest financial melt down in history and companies going to the wall left, right and centre we have an opportune Pandemic to save these companies ???????? Just a coincidence of course!

[geriatrickid]

What do you think the big pharmaceutical companies are doing by flogging countries massive amounts of so called vaccines like Tamiflu which has not been proven to do any good. The big companies are making BILLIONS from all these scares. Like Dave, think how many others have gone to get a " Shot " to protect them. As the saying goes. you want to know who is benefiting from all this the " Follow the money "

In the biggest financial melt down in history and companies going to the wall left, right and centre we have an opportune Pandemic to save these companies ???????? Just a coincidence of course!

You are very confused and are offering conjecture as fact. Tamiflu is NOT a vaccine. It is prescribed to interfere with viral replication, and to help the body's immune system control the virus, so that the infection does not overwhelm the body. The manufacturer never made claims for it to function as a cure, vaccine or prophylaxis.

Here's a reality check. Until 2005, Roche of Switzerland was the sole manufacturer of Tamiflu. Bowing to multiple governments' pressure it agreed to license the product to various generic manufacturers. Some were reputable like Barr (Germany) or Teva (Israel) that followed the normal protocols of allowing the respective nation's MoH decide where the the drugs would be dispensed. Roche wasn't happy, but it knew these manufacturers wouldn't dump the drug into the general population and would behave in a responsible ethical manner.

It would have gone well, but certain people in certain countries decided they would use this as a money maker and supply all sorts of online pharmacies and the general population. There is evidence that there are manufacturers that are producing the drug without license, oversight or care of QC. These manufacturers can hardly be considered to be part of the pharmaceutical industry anymore than a clothing manufacturer that churns out counterfeit copies of designer goods is a representative of the designated licensed manufacturers of those goods. The issue then is one of governmental oversight and why countries like India and others are not more vigilant and handing out stiffer penalties to unlicensed manufacturers. When is the last time China, Thailand or India put someone in jail or seized a factory doing this? You arnger should be directed at the same old group of conencted folks that do this year in and year out, than at Roche.

If people are smart enough to go online to find Tamiflu from questionable suppliers than they are capable of understanding that the drugs from the black market will be suspect. The reputable manufacturers warned governments and industry that if the drug license was released to manufacturers that did not follow responsible behaviours, that the drug would eventually become useless through misuse, or inadequate dosing. The flooding of the market with Tamiflu doesn't add to Roche's profits, rather it will destroy the drug's profits in the longterm because the virus will adapt and mutate to get around the drug. The removal of the profits then cripples original R&D that consumes billions of euro/$ that makes drugs like Tamiflu possible.

The money generated by Tamiflu out of the regulated market isn't flowing to Roche or those western companies legally licensed to make the drug. Easier to blame Roche than to hold the people demanding the drug responsible for their actions isn't it?

[Bagwan]

You are very confused and are offering conjecture as fact. Tamiflu is NOT a vaccine. It is prescribed to interfere with viral replication, and to help the body's immune system control the virus, so that the infection does not overwhelm the body. The manufacturer never made claims for it to function as a cure, vaccine or prophylaxis.

You appear to know what you are talking about so may I ask you to further my education - and maybe of other interested parties? I have been under the impression for years that many antibiotics alleviate or cure disease by disrupting the generation of more biotics so that the body i.e. white blood cells, fight and hopefully overcome the unwelcome invasion which has been denied reinforcements whereas presumably the body is not so handicapped. Is this correct? Should Tamiflu properly be called an antiviral and not a vaccine?

Many thanks.

[Bagwan]

This is interesting...I have never felt the need to get flu shots. Its pretty rare for me to get sick, but at the urging of my GF I got vaccine injections last week. I was pretty certain there was no vaccine for A/H1/N1 yet, but I went anyway. I asked the lady, "this protect me from the swine flu?" An emphatic "Yeess" was her reply. Lier. I want my 450 baht back.

I suggest that the Health Ministry and Medical Council check out the advertisments that I saw in BPH only this afternoon. Services were offered for a mere 800 baht.

In the matter of doctors with Benzs and BMWs, I know of one doctor who has been working in private hospitals for at least 8 years who lives with his family in a shop house on Pattaya Nua. The percentage of what a hospital charges in relation to what ends up in the sawbones wallet may not be a large as some may think.

Is the shop house a clinic? He needs his own clinic, and to freelance for the big resorts/hotels. That's where they make their money. I know you said private hospital, but a few years ago my doc here told me that all doctors are obliged to put some time in at government hospitals FOR FREE to keep their license. Not sure if there was a required amount of time on that or what.

My understanding is that newly qualified doctors who have availed themselves of financial aid from the state while studying have to serve at least two years in a state hospital on qualifying. After this time they are free to go wheresoever they wish. I will quiz my very efficient and professional doctor about this on Wednesday - yeah, I'm a little bit in love with her.

The doctor in Pattaya mentioned in my previous post opened a clinic which specialised in plastic surgery. He also owned 50% of the equity in a pharmacy. Both ventures failed. When prescribing for me he advised me to obtain the medicines from a certain pharmacy rather than the hospital at which he worked telling me that I would save money by doing so. On the second occasion that he did this I got him to admit that he had a financial interest. BTW, the very first time that I consulted him he tried to sell me some land in Sattahip.

TIT. Self interest rules, OK?

[ScubaBuddha]

TIT. Self interest rules, OK?

You'll have no argument there. Especially after being told last week by a nice lady in a white lab coat that the vaccine his I was getting would protect me from swine flu. "Lealy?"

[imjustagirl]

You are very confused and are offering conjecture as fact. Tamiflu is NOT a vaccine. It is prescribed to interfere with viral replication, and to help the body's immune system control the virus, so that the infection does not overwhelm the body. The manufacturer never made claims for it to function as a cure, vaccine or prophylaxis.

You appear to know what you are talking about so may I ask you to further my education - and maybe of other interested parties? I have been under the impression for years that many antibiotics alleviate or cure disease by disrupting the generation of more biotics so that the body i.e. white blood cells, fight and hopefully overcome the unwelcome invasion which has been denied reinforcements whereas presumably the body is not so handicapped. Is this correct? Should Tamiflu properly be called an antiviral and not a vaccine?

Many thanks.

antibiotics are for bacterial infections (e.g. tonsillitus, bronchitus, scepticemia...) not viral infections e.g the flu, measels, chicken pox etc

anti virals (e.g. tamiflu) interfere with the viral replication rate so lessening the severity of the illness

a vaccine (e.g. flu shot) is usually a weakened form of the virus that is given to the individual to trigger the body to create antibodies that will fight the virus in its full blown form. This is why a lot of people get a mild bout of the flu after they have a flu shot.

trouble with flu vaccines is that the flu virus mutates so quickly (tricky little bugger that flu virus) that we cannot develop a vaccine fast enough before the next new strain appears and makes the older vaccine useless or at best less effective....

i think thats how it all works anyway :-)

Edited June 22, 2009 by imjustagirl

[Bagwan]

antibiotics are for bacterial infections (e.g. tonsillitus, bronchitus, scepticemia...) not viral infections e.g the flu, measels, chicken pox etc

anti virals (e.g. tamiflu) interfere with the viral replication rate so lessening the severity of the illness

a vaccine (e.g. flu shot) is usually a weakened form of the virus that is given to the individual to trigger the body to create antibodies that will fight the virus in its full blown form. This is why a lot of people get a mild bout of the flu after they have a flu shot.

trouble with flu vaccines is that the flu virus mutates so quickly (tricky little bugger that flu virus) that we cannot develop a vaccine fast enough before the next new strain appears and makes the older vaccine useless or at best less effective....

i think thats how it all works anyway :-)

As with the Russian Army 1943-5 - many tanks.

Armed with this valuable knowledge I now will progress my plans to open a clinic in Pattyaya. Now, where's my Black and Decker? I intend to specialise in brain transplants - plenty of prospective customers from this board I'm thinking.

[imjustagirl]

antibiotics are for bacterial infections (e.g. tonsillitus, bronchitus, scepticemia...) not viral infections e.g the flu, measels, chicken pox etc

anti virals (e.g. tamiflu) interfere with the viral replication rate so lessening the severity of the illness

a vaccine (e.g. flu shot) is usually a weakened form of the virus that is given to the individual to trigger the body to create antibodies that will fight the virus in its full blown form. This is why a lot of people get a mild bout of the flu after they have a flu shot.

trouble with flu vaccines is that the flu virus mutates so quickly (tricky little bugger that flu virus) that we cannot develop a vaccine fast enough before the next new strain appears and makes the older vaccine useless or at best less effective....

i think thats how it all works anyway :-)

As with the Russian Army 1943-5 - many tanks.

Armed with this valuable knowledge I now will progress my plans to open a clinic in Pattyaya. Now, where's my Black and Decker? I intend to specialise in brain transplants - plenty of prospective customers from this board I'm thinking.

lol, well did my best.....hardly trust myself treating a paper cut!