Is Thailand Too Dangerous

[chiang mai]

Great, perhaps you could now point readers to the exact WHO URL that relates to the stats you posted?

<snip>

A poster posts some stats (five years old) and says they came from the WHO web site, when quizzed as to their source the posters replies, from the WHO web site (turns out they history files from his personal archives) - give me a break as to attitude, give me facts, source and accuracy. Have you ever visited the WHO web site and tried to navigate your way through it to try and find a specific reference that another poster has referred to in vague terms. Move on with relevance!

Edited July 2, 2009 by raro
flame deleted - please keep it civil

[chiang mai]

Interesting stats, thanks loong

You're welcome Neverdie.

I appreciate that I should have explained that these stats were from a file already downloaded onto my computer and that I couldn't locate the original link. But there really was no need for the sarcastic responses from ChiangMai.

Still at least it made me search and so I've now provided the URL with slightly newer stats. Thank you ChiangMai

Of course these are stats re deaths, not violence etc that does not result in death, but they certainly paint the picture that you are more likely to meet a violent death in SE Asia than in the west. Mind you USA is pretty bad.

No sarcasm intended or implied, just verifying your source so the argument remains factual.

[MeetJohnDoe]

So MJD managed to literally dodge the bullet for 'a couple of years'. Well done.

Huay Yai features in very high percentage of local (ie. Thai on Thai) crime stories, whether it be this unfortunate incident or the numerous young gangbangers shooting at each other on Sukhumvit (they invariably flee towards Huay Yai)...

It's also home to several farangs who probably note with dismay how their dreams of a quiet country retreat, just beyond the city lights, has been slowly eroded; the reality being guard dogs, high walls, cctv systems and the home HAVING to become a castle... or a prison.

There's no statistics that I know of that indicate farang fatalities in the municipality but the increased risk is undeniable.

It changes your mind and attitude when it get's this close, this frequent. I will never accept that the criminals have won but I will be first to admit that I have lost something when I lock myself and family IN every night.

Sorry Nan to disappoint folks like you that have been in Thailand too long for your own good but there were no bullets to dodge. In the 2 years I lived out on the reservoir, I drove into town 4-5 nites a week to party...often returning at 2-3 a.m. and not once was I shot at or held up by a highway gunmen. Maybe you or your friends are just fereng type residents so the locals like to take pot-shots at you when they see you drive by

I did not several impressive "estates" out there...owned by Thais or farangs I don't know. However, any foreigner who builds a mansion out in the middle of nowhere in a country where the average wage is still only B 200-B400 a day is just being stupid and asking to be robbed or worse. They should get a clue.

I think it's very deniable that crime has increased to any great extent. I am sure petty crimes have increased world-wide due to the current hard times. Everybody should take appropriate precautions but no need for paranoia. And I did spend many an evening lounging by our Huay Yai resort's pool and on our private deck without a care in the world.

Isn't locking oneself in at nite (and daytime too) just SOP...where do you people come from that you think this is anything unusual?

Edited June 28, 2009 by MeetJohnDoe

[bobright]

You will be told by all ther old die hards thats thailand is great, no worse than liverpool/los angeles etc, when in fact its 10 times worse, and will get worse while money is short and getting shorter,,gun culture is rife here and most, yes most teenagers carry guns, im talking about the pattaya area of course, but what do you expect when the dregs of thailand converge on the place and 3 generations of pimps and prostitutes offspring are the local population,..yes i know if i dont like it i can go home and we are, i do not want to remain here and bring our daughter up here and possibly become a statistic,..there is nothing to do for families anyway,for those that sing thailands praises i can only wonder where they came from !,,biggest mistake i made in my life was not realising what life is really like here and what the thais really think of us,.if you dont see it the rose color glasses are still doing their work, well done,.

yes, these are third generations of pimps and prostitutes - and drug dealers - running around of late in pattaya. they come from all over thailand and haunt the place today. later, when pattaya was open to the the american g.i.'s then fighting the vietnam , the second wave of sort moved in. ever wonder why the u.s.s. New Orleans and other us ships are now in phuket instead of pattaya - all some 5,000 us military personnels. Phuket , except for a small narrow linkk out the island at krabi is more manageable in terms of security whereas pattaya has all kinds of access out of the city into the hinterland hence providing all kinds of escape routes for the perpetrators of all kinds of crimes. as well, all kinds of conspiracies involving various nationalitieis other than thais are involved today. ( REad the sri lankan copnspiracy involving the bangkok airport scandal involving the duty -free King power shop and the police in other parts of this thai forum). Not too long ago, one pattaya bar beer owner and his wife was shot dead by hired gunmen working in singapore then. Guess who the guy was behind it all. the son of the bar beer - all because his parents refused to give him the money to let him fly to hongkong to meet his hongkong girlfriend whom the former met on the internet chat-room. all for a girl he had never met fact to face before. then there was the burning of bodies on jomtien beach of people murdered . the idea was to get rid of all possible evidence . then there was the go-go bar girl who was butchered and her body was thrown right on the doorstep of the old city hall near dusit thani hotel. this narrative can go and on. remember, a couple of weeks ago about the 81 year granny who headed a drug-pushing ring in the same province? remember the countless dismembered bodies picked up from the seas near pattaya? my friend , if you treasure your family 's life, get the hel_l out of your neighborhood right now. don't wait till the other reports come in as suggested by one panelist here. a nice neighbor to you who gets shot down may not be that nice after all for all you know. still the suggestion is get out right now before it is too late for your family's sake.

[philliphn]

The down turn in the world economy is starting to effect Pattaya. You do need to be more careful. When people become hungry and desperate the level of danger increases. Throw drugs in to the mix and this is compounded

I love Pattaya. But I am now considering another location such as Chiangmai to retire in Thailand. Or initiallly at least spending a few years in Chiangmai.

The authorities need to make Thailand a safer place for expats and tourists. They need to realize that it is a big world and that if you can vacation in Thailand you can also choose other destinations to vacation in and spend your hard earned money. The corruption at the air port will make many think again when considering Thailand as a place to visit!

[bobright]

Crime in Pattaya has increased dramatically the last few years. Especially violent crime against foreigners. With the downturn in revenue we can expect much more trouble. Just check out the "prime" location Pratumnak Hill, more and more buildings and villages resort to barbed wire, high voltage security wires and more. Hardly a building that has not been burglarized at least once, more often several times. Values of real-estate are falling fast and we have not reached bottom yet.

No question that more and more people will leave, also no questions that the die-hards will keep defending their territory and paint it in pink! JL.

Pratumnak Hill was never considered "prime" buy anyone who has lived in Pattaya for any length of time...it was only market as such to newbies and other clueless buyers by the the Pattaya real estate pimps. It has always been know as a high crime area...despite the presence of a notable residence.

pratumnak, prime property? good golly. since when? after all the hypes? remember, pattaya is a sanctuary for laundered monies from around the world. it does not represent thailand at all. not an iota. heard of fools rush in where angels fear to tread? be careful. walls have ears, like they say in israel of the wailing wall. a seemingly nic neighbor may be the king-pin of all these show-downs in pattaya or chonburi where pattaya is itsd pseudo-capital. and, chonburi if you must, has the highest number of mafia-like druglords. a young thai told me the other day a life is worth in pattaya is worth no more than 20 baht - the price of a bullet. tha young thai has witnessed many other young thais - be they go-go bar dancers or runners for the drug-lords or some snooker or illegal gambling dens - be gunned down in mostly public places. are farangs aware a gun - colt or smith wesson - is sold for as cheap as 500 baht in downtown pattaya? sniff around and you will know where they are readily available.

[NanLaew]

Sorry Nan to disappoint folks like you that have been in Thailand too long for your own good but there were no bullets to dodge. In the 2 years I lived out on the reservoir, I drove into town 4-5 nites a week to party...often returning at 2-3 a.m. and not once was I shot at or held up by a highway gunmen. Maybe you or your friends are just fereng type residents so the locals like to take pot-shots at you when they see you drive by

I did not several impressive "estates" out there...owned by Thais or farangs I don't know. However, any foreigner who builds a mansion out in the middle of nowhere in a country where the average wage is still only B 200-B400 a day is just being stupid and asking to be robbed or worse. They should get a clue.

I think it's very deniable that crime has increased to any great extent. I am sure petty crimes have increased world-wide due to the current hard times. Everybody should take appropriate precautions but no need for paranoia. And I did spend many an evening lounging by our Huay Yai resort's pool and on our private deck without a care in the world.

Isn't locking oneself in at nite (and daytime too) just SOP...where do you people come from that you think this is anything unusual?

I pretty much agree with you and I hoped I was striking a balance between the rose-tinted glasses 'go home if you can't hack it' brigade and the paranoid endlessly quoting Nationmaster for local crime stats. Maybe you missed my point. Just because you (and doubtless several friends) personally avoided any trouble over 24-months commuting to/from a resort, notably in much better economic times, this does not preclude it happening eventually to someone less savvy in the current economic downturn. Kind of like stacking the odds against you? Kind of like my house being kamoy-free for years and years and then getting hit multiple times? You are right in saying that sensible precautions should suffice but most of these crimes are by petty criminals not hit-men or mafia and petty criminals are opportunists by nature. One farang, slightly under the influence of Chang on a crotch-rocket after 3 am anywhere on the dark side is all the opportunity they need. The increased use (or reported use) of firearms is NOT deniable. Thai's can be hot-headed at the best of times but when they are so out of their head and desperate for cash for yaabaa, then the likelihood of using the gun is increased, no?

I don't have rose-tinted glasses and I also am aware that we aren't in Kansas anymore either but building your retirement home in some third world country does not give thieves under some misguided label of "indigenous poor" the right to relieve you of your possessions or life does it?

Places where one can leave the house unlocked? Try most of rural New Zealand... for the moment. I am from Scotland by the way and recall summer holidays on the farm where there were no locks on the doors. Admittedly many years ago but I do recall feeling safer back then without the locks. I accept that these are different times requiring different measures and different attitudes but having to add locks and alarms just makes me remember when life was easier and better.

PS. "too long for your own good"...? When violent crime PERSONALLY visits you, get back to me with your thoughts.

Edited June 28, 2009 by NanLaew

[anothertorres]

the 81 year granny who headed a drug-pushing ring in the same province?

i was able to follow you right up until this point. i couldn't read the rest because i had to go and commit suicide. and by suicide i mean, to run from Thailand and head back into the safety of the rest of the world

[MayBeLater]

The following site http://www.nationmaster.com is very usefull for anyone interested in statistics on a wide range of topics about many countries. Its easy to navigate.

Some examples, just look in the top ten for Thailand and gone is the myth Thailand is save.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_gun_...per-100-000-pop

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_...ders-per-capita

See yourself.

MBL

[MayBeLater]

Also check out rankings.........Thailand is worse than Cambodia when the measure of broader (i.e., peace). And you can read about the methodology.

Yeah I'm sure it is if you leave out that little bit about the 1 million+ people were wiped-out in the Killing Fields!

Quite a stupid argument, its the same as calling Germany violent due to WW2 or to call Rome a violent city because of the Colosseum. Please be a bit more constructive Jonny or do you post because you want to see your avatar?

[tattoodrob]

Crime in Pattaya has increased dramatically the last few years. Especially violent crime against foreigners. With the downturn in revenue we can expect much more trouble. Just check out the "prime" location Pratumnak Hill, more and more buildings and villages resort to barbed wire, high voltage security wires and more. Hardly a building that has not been burglarized at least once, more often several times. Values of real-estate are falling fast and we have not reached bottom yet.

No question that more and more people will leave, also no questions that the die-hards will keep defending their territory and paint it in pink! JL.

Pratumnak Hill was never considered "prime" buy anyone who has lived in Pattaya for any length of time...it was only market as such to newbies and other clueless buyers by the the Pattaya real estate pimps. It has always been know as a high crime area...despite the presence of a notable residence.

pratumnak, prime property? good golly. since when? after all the hypes? remember, pattaya is a sanctuary for laundered monies from around the world. it does not represent thailand at all. not an iota. heard of fools rush in where angels fear to tread? be careful. walls have ears, like they say in israel of the wailing wall. a seemingly nic neighbor may be the king-pin of all these show-downs in pattaya or chonburi where pattaya is itsd pseudo-capital. and, chonburi if you must, has the highest number of mafia-like druglords. a young thai told me the other day a life is worth in pattaya is worth no more than 20 baht - the price of a bullet. tha young thai has witnessed many other young thais - be they go-go bar dancers or runners for the drug-lords or some snooker or illegal gambling dens - be gunned down in mostly public places. are farangs aware a gun - colt or smith wesson - is sold for as cheap as 500 baht in downtown pattaya? sniff around and you will know where they are readily available.

500 baht for a smith or colt.........i dont think so........maybe a home made pen gun will sell for that but why would anyone sell a colt for 500 baht...............i dont think there is anywhere in the world where you can buy for that as you cant even buy one in USA where they are legal and in abundance and cheap and not to mention the black market puts prices up not down, they have a lot of copy guns or cheap chinese crap here and small caliber .22 and they go for 15k baht up without a book .

sorry to digress but that was way out and without going into detail but i know people who know people and the dregs that live here who can supply such things!

[Jungian]

More dangerous compared to what Philadelphia, the Bronx, Harlem, Detroit, Miami...

[tropo]

Believe it or not, there really are cities and countries that have almost no violence.

Not.

Go here: http://www.visionofhumanity.org/gpi/home.php

Also check out rankings.........Thailand is worse than Cambodia when the measure of broader (i.e., peace). And you can read about the methodology.

The fact is that some countries are peaceful relative to others.

That implies less violence.

I lived in such a country......did not hear one word raised in anger for the entire time I was there (about seven months)........totally amazing country and people.

It took me less than five minutes to see and hear people angry in Thailand after my stay in that country.

I lived in the most peaceful country on your list for 17 years. Even went to school there. My personal experience wasn't so peaceful. There is a lot of conflict between the indigenous people and the white immigrants. This is one of the reasons why I left there.

Note that Philippines comes in at #114 and Thailand at #118 on the list yet just about everyone on this forum considers the Philippines too dangerous (compared to Thailand) and are scared to go there. I'm not saying that the Philippines is safe, but most expats in Thailand have a totally different perception of the world compared to what your list indicates.

Obvoiusly your list is based on crime statistics. This can really distort the true picture. For example there are some places in the Philippines where it would be too dangerous to even drive a car (Tondo, Manila), yet most of the country consists of idyllic island locations where violent crime is rare. Considering that 20% of the Philippine population live in Manila, which admittedly is a hel_l hole, the country as a whole will be considered statistically very dangerous.

[JR Texas]

Believe it or not, there really are cities and countries that have almost no violence.

Not.

Go here: http://www.visionofhumanity.org/gpi/home.php

Also check out rankings.........Thailand is worse than Cambodia when the measure of broader (i.e., peace). And you can read about the methodology.

The fact is that some countries are peaceful relative to others.

That implies less violence.

I lived in such a country......did not hear one word raised in anger for the entire time I was there (about seven months)........totally amazing country and people.

It took me less than five minutes to see and hear people angry in Thailand after my stay in that country.

I lived in the most peaceful country on your list for 17 years. Even went to school there. My personal experience wasn't so peaceful. There is a lot of conflict between the indigenous people and the white immigrants. This is one of the reasons why I left there.

Note that Philippines comes in at #114 and Thailand at #118 on the list yet just about everyone on this forum considers the Philippines too dangerous (compared to Thailand) and are scared to go there. I'm not saying that the Philippines is safe, but most expats in Thailand have a totally different perception of the world compared to what your list indicates.

Obvoiusly your list is based on crime statistics. This can really distort the true picture. For example there are some places in the Philippines where it would be too dangerous to even drive a car (Tondo, Manila), yet most of the country consists of idyllic island locations where violent crime is rare. Considering that 20% of the Philippine population live in Manila, which admittedly is a hel_l hole, the country as a whole will be considered statistically very dangerous.

New Zealand..........must have been beautiful if not so peaceful........yes, it is interesting how many expats (at least those in Thailand) think the Philippines is very dangerous compared to Thailand. It really does matter where you are living.

Agreed (did I say that)........crime statistics are notoriously error prone, mainly because of lack of accurate reporting. How many crimes are actually reported in Thailand? Far less than occur......same for the Philippines.

Interestingly, you don't see Cambodia on the list. Why? Because it is extremely difficult to get even remotely accurate information on crime rate in Cambodia.

The main point is Thailand is more dangerous than many countries.......less so than others. And in Thailand there are regions that are more dangerous than others, thus skewing national statistics on crime rates (same for the Philippines.....take Midanao out of the picture and the statistics will look very different).

One more thing: from the long term perspective, crime has most certainly increased in Thailand and especially in places like Pattaya.

That is one of the advantages of having lived in the country a long time........if you have only been here a few years and come from a dangerous place, it might look like heaven to you.

It is all about perspective, but we need to get the data right.

[cpofc]

being close to an horrific crime is traumatic, it is no wonder you have so many things racing through your mind right now. I am sure you will calm down in time.

I was only drinking with a Thai mate of mine early last week, together with his girlfriend. And then I find out on Friday night that he is looking at at charge of murder should the victim of his bashing die, he is due to report to the police today as his victim, whom he assaulted on thursday, fights for his life in Hospital. Poo, my friend, I have always found to be 'jai yen yen', with a good, smiling and happy disposition, apparently attacked his victim with a large blunt instrument making a bit of a mess of him, all about woman matters I believe. This was in Lat Phrao. Violence is everywhere mate and when the Thais do arc up, they generally go ballistic. As my friend seems to have done.

As for Pattaya? Pattaya has changed more in this decade than it has in the previous 4. I have ceased visiting the place. it is 'raunchier' now than it was at the height of the VN War. One famous long time businessman and shop owner in walking street told me a couple of years ago, he was getting out. he couldn't nelieve what was going on these days.

Living in Pattaya would be like go to Sydney and living in Kings Cross - and I sure wouldn't be doing that in a hurry!

[Tokay]

This is nothing, wait another 6 months to a year, when the global depression takes its toll, then you'll see dangerous

it'll be years before any recovery

Agreed.

Deaths by intentional violence W.H.O figures for 2002, per 100,000 population

Thailand 9.4

USA 5.4

Colombia 72.4

I've spent a lot of time in Colombia. Even got caught up in the middle of a military police / gang shoot out. We had to take shelter in a doorway. One of the most frightening moments of my life. It's no joke in parts of Colombia. Not all cities are bad, and not all areas in a city are bad, but when they are, they are REALLY bad.

[Tokay]

1/ Life is what you make it.

2/ Don't believe everything you hear on TeleVision.....or the net!

3/ Avoid travel in places less hospitable.

4/ And from my long departed Great Uncle who was a policeman in South Africa: Alway carry a loaded revolver on your person plus a back-up hidden in your vehicle with a sawn off 12 gauge shotgun.

I like your uncle.

2 places i have been where i saw no violence .......Pyong Yang North Korea and

Cuba.

Also have spent a LOT of time in Cuba over the years. Been all over that islands many, many times. Never saw as much as a fist fight among the locals. Though, I'm sure the overwhelming amount of police and spying eyes are the reason for that.

[norrona]

even many years ago I know people who have experienced being in the back of a baht bus and motor bike riders getting aggro with them and trying to stop the bus or ride right behind it, this was family and friends who were frightened out of their skin by the experience down one of the busier sois, nern plub wan!

they were either aggro as there were some nice local girls in the bus or they wanted to rob them...maybe both???

it was later at night and on a full moon, now we all know the locals can go a bit more feral when that moons out

what I will say is its never been safe in Pattaya, in the boom years of Thailand maybe it wasn't so wild west but theres always been an under current, from soi yensabai right down to naklua....as for pratumnak well it would have been safer out that way if some of these villages and projects actually got finished and been inhabited then maybe things may have got better...I doubt it but maybe!

carry at least a can of CS gas if I were you, give you half a chance if something ever happens

[MeetJohnDoe]

I pretty much agree with you and I hoped I was striking a balance between the rose-tinted glasses 'go home if you can't hack it' brigade and the paranoid endlessly quoting Nationmaster for local crime stats. The increased use (or reported use) of firearms is NOT deniable. Thai's can be hot-headed at the best of times... but when they are so out of their head and desperate for cash for yaabaa, then the likelihood of using the gun is increased, no?

I don't have rose-tinted glasses and I also am aware that we aren't in Kansas anymore either but building your retirement home in some third world country does not give thieves under some misguided label of "indigenous poor" the right to relieve you of your possessions or life does it?

Places where one can leave the house unlocked? Try most of rural New Zealand... for the moment...

Well at least now you are beginning to make a little more sense. Before you were slamming an entire area (Huay Yai) and it seemed to me that you may not have ever even lived in the area. (Is that true?) I just wanted to provide an additional perspective from an actual (if former) resident. I can understand your hightend sense of vulnerablity after having your home burguled several times but I think it important not to over generalize or extrapolate from annectecodtal reports that Pattaya is under seige from a crime wave. I think we can all agree that in these depressed economic times, crime is/will increase world-wide and that standard sensible precautions need to be taken both to secure one's home and person from attack. This will not guarantee nothing will happen but surely lessen the chance of becoming a victim.

As you say, we are not in NZ, or Kansas either, anymore and lax attitudes toward home security have no place here I know there are places in the world where people can safely leave doors unlocked and window open but Thailand (and most SE Asian natons) is not one of them. Surely everyone must be aware of this. While certainly no one has the "right" to steal from another in practice, if you show-off your wealth in full view of the poor locals you are just making yourself a target. At least build or buy in a moobaan as there is more security (in theory but that's a whole different discussion).

Those national crime stats someone posted show that among Thailand's fellow SE Asian nations, it is no more or less dangerous (Cambodia, Malaysia, Indonesia, Philippines).

As to the op, sure it would freak one out to have a neighbor shot and killed but to then go on and suggest Pattaya is getting too dangerous or more dangerous than in the past is just not true IMHO. Out here on soi NPW where I live, there have been some killings (among Thais of course) but this doesn't make me feel unsafe or cause me to think about moving someplace else.

[norrona]

Out here on soi NPW where I live, there have been some killings (among Thais of course)

Great way of keeping the numbers down, bit like a natural disaster in the eyes of the authorities

[jobsworth]

are farangs aware a gun - colt or smith wesson - is sold for as cheap as 500 baht in downtown pattaya? sniff around and you will know where they are readily available.

500 Baht you say.

I hope that the automatic is not the one with the crack on the slider which had been expertly welded.

I hope that the revolver is not the one with the broken latch on the revolving chambers

such that when it was fired the bullet traveled alongside the barrel rather than through it.

Both weapons I have fired at the shooting range in Pattaya about 10 years ago.

I am lucky to still have my hand.

[soundman]

are farangs aware a gun - colt or smith wesson - is sold for as cheap as 500 baht in downtown pattaya? sniff around and you will know where they are readily available.

500 Baht you say.

I hope that the automatic is not the one with the crack on the slider which had been expertly welded.

I hope that the revolver is not the one with the broken latch on the revolving chambers

or the gun used in the most recent armed robbery/murder which would normally get tossed after use, however, sometimes people still buy them....

[tropo]

That is one of the advantages of having lived in the country a long time........if you have only been here a few years and come from a dangerous place, it might look like heaven to you.

It is all about perspective, but we need to get the data right.

Often if people have lived in Asia for a long time they become complacent and let their guard down.

I reckon if you live in any 3rd world country where money is scarce, you're a target, be it Thailand, Philippines or Cambodia. I never become complacent about my safely in Pattaya or any other place in SE Asia. A life in this neck of the woods is worth a fraction of what it's worth back at home.

[Ulysses G.]

Tropo, I think that we argued at some point (are you a yellowshirt?), but I sure agree with eveything that you say on this and other Pattaya/Thailand threads!

[tropo]

Tropo, I think that we argued at some point (are you a yellowshirt?), but I sure agree with eveything that you say on this and other Pattaya/Thailand threads!

I hardly ever wear yellow or red. They really don't match my complexion

I choose to stay out of Thai politics. I even chose to stay out of politics back at home.

The moment I find life in Thailand too much to bare, I'll be on the next plane out.

[Ulysses G.]

I agree with that too.

[bikerman]

Believe it or not, there really are cities and countries that have almost no violence.

Not.

Go here: http://www.visionofhumanity.org/gpi/home.php

Also check out rankings.........Thailand is worse than Cambodia when the measure of broader (i.e., peace). And you can read about the methodology.

The fact is that some countries are peaceful relative to others.

That implies less violence.

I lived in such a country......did not hear one word raised in anger for the entire time I was there (about seven months)........totally amazing country and people.

It took me less than five minutes to see and hear people angry in Thailand after my stay in that country.

Noticed most of these countries on your link are of the colder climate …maybe that’s the answer its in hot countries more crime seems to take place, lets face it you never here of the Eskimos fighting and killing each other .

[LennyW]

Could be worse......

BRITAIN was officially named Europe's most violent nation last night.

We also suffer more violence than people in the US or even SOUTH AFRICA, figures show.

A shocking 2,034 per 100,000 people suffer violent crime in the UK, compared to 466 in America and 1,609 in troublespot South Africa.

Britain's damning figures far outstrip those of second-worst EU country — Austria, with 1,677 violent crimes per 100,000 people.

And the UK rate has increased by a shocking 77 per cent since 1998.

The numbers were released by the European Commission.

They also tell how Britain has the second highest OVERALL crime rate in the EU.

Shadow Home Secretary Chris Grayling said: "This is a real damning indictment of this Government's comprehensive failure to tackle the deep-rooted social problems in our society, and the knock-on effect on crime and anti-social behaviour."

Britain also has a higher homicide rate than most of our western European neighbours, including France, Germany, Italy and Spain. But overall we came 13th worst in our rate for murders. Lithuania topped the list, followed by Estonia and Latvia.

The figures, recording crime in 2007, also show the UK has the fifth-highest robbery rate in the EU, and the fourth-highest burglary rate.

We have TWICE as many burglaries as Germany or France.

The country with the lowest rate of violent crime was Romania, with just 32 violent crimes per 100,000 people.

But experts claim Romania as well as Greece, Bulgaria and Turkey — all at the bottom of the list — have different ways of recording crime.

From the UK's The Sun yesterday.

Edited July 2, 2009 by LennyW

[JR Texas]

Believe it or not, there really are cities and countries that have almost no violence.

Not.

Go here: http://www.visionofhumanity.org/gpi/home.php

Also check out rankings.........Thailand is worse than Cambodia when the measure of broader (i.e., peace). And you can read about the methodology.

The fact is that some countries are peaceful relative to others.

That implies less violence.

I lived in such a country......did not hear one word raised in anger for the entire time I was there (about seven months)........totally amazing country and people.

It took me less than five minutes to see and hear people angry in Thailand after my stay in that country.

Noticed most of these countries on your link are of the colder climate …maybe that’s the answer its in hot countries more crime seems to take place, lets face it you never here of the Eskimos fighting and killing each other .

Maybe..........but my guess is that it has more to do with a combination of cultural norms and economic development than anything else. The country I lived in that had virtually no violence was characterized by Islam (non radical version) coupled with a very wealthy general population. I have always thought that if we made everyone rich, crime would go away.

[loong]

You forgot the link Lenny........

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/...se-than-US.html