Bank Charges

[pattani]

What are the bank charges when you received and pay.

Our bank Siam Commercial Bank charge for income money THB 220, but sometimes she send to us example USD 100 but the SCB-Bank received USD 89. Intrust Bank send USD 100 from USA to American Express Thailand and AE charge also USD 11 and send USD 89 to SCB-Bank. Is this correct, follow the Intrust Bank when this happend in USA she no charge. Why can the Intrust Bank not send directly to SCB-Bank, we give SWIFT-Code of our bank to our customers. But from some banks comes the transfer not directly to our bank but via other banks in Thailand and they charge also.

Who can give advise how to send directly to our bank account.

Thanks

Pattani

[~G~]

I'd like to know about that as well.

I made a SWIFT transfer of $636 to a bank account in Thailand. They only received $598. Still trying to find out how is that possible. It seems like the money went through a bank in the US and then to Thailand.

[Krub]

USD can only be tranferred between bank accounts within the Fed system in the USA.

When you order bank A to transfer USD to bank B, if both banks are in the US no difficulties. If bank B and or B are not in the uS, the bank not in the US must instruct the bank in the US where it has its USD to pay on its behalf.

The more banks involved the more charges are taken off the amount sent unless instruction has been given to charge the order party who then would be debited later on (this is only posssible if you hold an account in the ordering bank)

It is alwasy cheaper to use a pair of branches of the same bank or at least a receiving bank which has a correspondant agreement with the ordering bank to enable the ordering bank not to have to got through the clearing banks in the US and their charges system.

I for example use Bangkok Bank's Tokyo Branch to send yen or bahts to a Bangkok's bank branch in Thailand. it takes 24 hours and no charges are levied except for the transfer charge at the start. The sent amount is the same as the received amount wether in yen or in bahts. It should work the same with for example their branch in the US and a transfer in USD or bahts

[_Echinochloa_]

I'd like to know about that as well.

I made a SWIFT transfer of $636 to a bank account in Thailand. They only received $598.    Still trying to find out how is that possible. It seems like the money went through a bank in the US and then to Thailand.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

ALL US$ T.T.'s have to go through the US.The US$38 is the fee that your bank charged you to send the T.T.

[~G~]

I'd like to know about that as well.

I made a SWIFT transfer of $636 to a bank account in Thailand. They only received $598.    Still trying to find out how is that possible. It seems like the money went through a bank in the US and then to Thailand.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

ALL US$ T.T.'s have to go through the US.The US$38 is the fee that your bank charged you to send the T.T.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not So. I was charged by my bank additionally to the $38. My bank charged me and notified me (I got the transaction receipt) that they SENT $636. Nothing less. $38 were taken either by the receiving bank or by a bank in between. By the way, I transferred money to other accounts (in other banks) in Thailand in the past and did not experience any extra charge.

As to your first remark - both sending and receiving banks are out of the US. Why should the transfer has to be made via the US?

Edited February 19, 2005 by ~G~

[JimGant]

A common cause for "lost" money when wiring money to Thailand is because the sender checked the wrong box on the transfer paperwork, namely the 'foreign currency' box. For whatever reason, you get a much better exchange rate if you send local currency and have it converted to baht on the Thailand end, e.g. if you're sending from the US, you send dollars and thus check the "USD" box on the paperwork.

Why this is so, I don't know. You do lock in an exchange rate before the wire goes, which takes out the forex risk. But the hefty price you pay sure doesn't make sense in this day and age of speedy wire transfers.

[~G~]

A common cause for "lost" money when wiring money to Thailand is because the sender checked the wrong box on the transfer paperwork, namely the 'foreign currency' box. For whatever reason, you get a much better exchange rate if you send local currency and have it converted to baht on the Thailand end, e.g. if you're sending from the US, you send dollars and thus check the "USD" box on the paperwork.

Why this is so, I don't know. You do lock in an exchange rate before the wire goes, which takes out the forex risk. But the hefty price you pay sure doesn't make sense in this day and age of speedy wire transfers.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Exchange rates do not seem to be the problem in my case (or in the OP's case). The original currency was converted to $636. Then sent. $598 were received. Then converted to baht.

[Krub]

As to your first remark - both sending and receiving banks are out of the US. Why should the transfer has to be made via the US?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

USD can only be moved within the USA inside the FED reserve funds

That is why the sending bank AND the receiving bank must have either a USD account inside the US them selves or have their own branch in the US.

Edited February 19, 2005 by Krub

[JimGant]

Still don't understand why US dollars are involved if you're wiring money to Thailand from outside the US?? This would not be necessary from Britain, France, etc etc..

Where exactly are you from?

[~G~]

Still don't understand why US dollars are involved if you're wiring money to Thailand from outside the US?? This would not be necessary from Britain, France, etc etc.. 

Where exactly are you from?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Israel. And my sheqels are not accepted in Thailand...

[sajal]

Still don't understand why US dollars are involved if you're wiring money to Thailand from outside the US?? This would not be necessary from Britain, France, etc etc.. 

Where exactly are you from?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

pls check bangkok banks exchange rate to see which currencies are acceptable and at what rates...

we have a lot of trade with indian sub continent and most of the currencies arent acceptable.

even if sometimes they do have india in their list, the rate is very high.

as per the current chart sending money to india, the exchange rate is 0.93750, in reality it should be the inverse which is around 1.1.... u should get more indian rupees by giving lesser baht...

so the only option is to convert to US$, or euro, or any currency easily acceptable in both the countries.

whenever when my customers make payment its always routed via the USA.

example ...

1) my customer pays US$30,000 equivalent pakistani rupees + transfer fees to his bank.

2) the local bank pays $30,000 to american express in pakistan.

3) amex deducts some fees.

4) amex paki sends the funds to amex in the US

4) amex US deducts their charges.

5) amex US sends the funds to bangkok bank manhattan branch.

6) bangkok bank manhattan deducts charges (im not sure abt this)

7) bangkok bank manhattan sends the amt to bangkok bank head office.

by now i receive somewhere around 29,900 to 29,950....now this converts to baht.....and the process takes 1 to 3 days......sometimes there is an error somewhere in the chain of these banks....it has actually taken us 3 weeks once....

[Krub]

Still don't understand why US dollars are involved if you're wiring money to Thailand from outside the US?? This would not be necessary from Britain, France, etc etc.. 

Where exactly are you from?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Jim,

The bank to which you give your money to send to Thailand has to phisically pay that money somehow to the paying bank. Tjis can only be done between 2 USD accounts (that both banks will hold typically in New York)

Lets say Mr. X asks Fortis Bank in Belgium to send 100USD to Mr Y at Bangkok Bank in Phuket.

We know that Fortis Bank has a USD account in Citibank New York and that Bangkok Bank has a USD account in its own branch in New York.

Fortis bank will send a SWIFT message to Bangkok Bank in Phuket asking them to pay Mr Y by order of Mr X telling them that they have credited teir account in USD with their New York Branch. In the meantime they send another interbank SWIFT message to Citibank New York asking them to debit Fortis account and credit Bangkok Bank account in USD within New York.

In the real good old days the money was actually sent in cash but in these modern times this is not possible anymore.

The best and cheapest would be to treat with the same bank at both ends so that the USD transfer would nly be a book transfer within their New York Bracnch.

The thing becomes even more complicated if Fortis Bank does not have a correspondant agreement with Bangkok bank. In this case Fortis would have to order Citibank (where they have their USD account) to do it on their behalf which will add to the cost....to the customer.

Cheers

[~G~]

The bank to which you give your money to send to Thailand has to phisically pay that money somehow to the paying bank. Tjis can only be done between 2 USD accounts (that both banks will hold typically in New York)

Cheers

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How does it work when you transfer Euro? Where is that managed?

Anyway, I don't see why my bank cannot notify me in advance that there shall be an extra charge on the way. They should be able to check whether their US branch has an agreement with the US branch of the Thai bank, and give me the REAL cost of the transfer, rather then discovering it later, and having the recipient complain he didn't get the full amount.

[StuartinBKK]

The bank to which you give your money to send to Thailand has to phisically pay that money somehow to the paying bank. Tjis can only be done between 2 USD accounts (that both banks will hold typically in New York)

Cheers

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How does it work when you transfer Euro? Where is that managed?

Anyway, I don't see why my bank cannot notify me in advance that there shall be an extra charge on the way. They should be able to check whether their US branch has an agreement with the US branch of the Thai bank, and give me the REAL cost of the transfer, rather then discovering it later, and having the recipient complain he didn't get the full amount.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

ECB

European Central Bank.

You have all the answers now G so contact your bank.

[Krub]

The bank to which you give your money to send to Thailand has to phisically pay that money somehow to the paying bank. Tjis can only be done between 2 USD accounts (that both banks will hold typically in New York)

Cheers

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How does it work when you transfer Euro? Where is that managed?

Anyway, I don't see why my bank cannot notify me in advance that there shall be an extra charge on the way. They should be able to check whether their US branch has an agreement with the US branch of the Thai bank, and give me the REAL cost of the transfer, rather then discovering it later, and having the recipient complain he didn't get the full amount.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

G

Banks are private companies which have shareholders to satisfy as any other businesses....

Having said that, I agree that they should be able to give you an idea of the cost of the transfer you ask them to do. if you read the small prints on the transfer order, you will probably find out that they do not take responsibility for the charges of the paying bank or you should ahve an option to ask to have all charges for the ordering customer, in thsi case no charges should be deducted at the paying end (it is the most expensive option)

Again it is up to the customer to shop around and believe me the best way is when possible use the branches of the same bank for any international transfer.

[ernieK24]

I would certainly appreciate a little guidance here, if you can help me. Here's where I stand:

I have transferred a sizable amount from Washington Mutual, here in California, USA, to a Citibank branch, for the sole purpose of wire transferring my funds to a Citibank in BKK, hopefully in the near future. I intend, on my very next visit, to open an account in the BKK branch of Citibank.

Can someone tell me if this is a good, or bad, decision. I've been told that the Bkk branch is completely independent of the US bank, and is not, in a sense, a branch of the system in US, as we understand it. Therefore, it's not just a simple matter of transferring funds betweeen accounts on the internet, as you can here, but means that it will have to be a "swift" trnsfr, or the equivalent.

Can someone enlighten me on the best, most efficient, and obviously, the cheapest way of getting funds into Thailand for retirement purposes. My intentions are to apply for a 90 day NI visa and at the proper time apply for a one yr. extension, at which time I will have to have the proper amount in the bank, or enough retirement income to qualify, both of which I have. I will transfer from time to time, enough money to live on, either with a wire transfer, or thru an ATM,

and then transfer the neccessary amount to my Thai account to satisfy my visa requirements, leaving the rest in my US account, and bumping it up from time to time to satisfy immigration. (It's not that important anyway cause I'm getting less than 2% interest here).

Would appreciate your ideas, and input.....Thanks in advance, and I'm sure there are others with some of these same questions....... Ernie

[ProThaiExpat]

I went through this whole process a couple of years ago and listened to a number of posters as to how to do it. I also "shopped" a number of U.S. depositories such as my own bank in Hawaii, IngDirect on line and Charles Schwab international brokerage.

I found,at that time, that Schwab wire transfers was the cheapest at $25 per transfer. However, I also learned on a thread that at SCB, and others, a "teller point of sale" transaction using a debit card entails minimum fees, only the currency conversion cost.

The Schwab recently started providing one free wire transfer per quarter to its international customers so I now have the debit card approach (limitied by SCB, not Schwab to 250k Baht a day) or the free wire transfer approach.

My bank in Hawaii is linked to my Schwab account, so online money can go to my Schwab account free, then free to Thailand using either of the innuciated approaches.

I was quoted as much as $60 per transfer by my own bank in the U.S.

PM me if you need more detail.

[lopburi3]

Any US bank can transfer your funds visa SWIFT to a bank here in Thailand. I would just set up a wire transfer agreement with your current bank that you can perform by mail or by phone the few times you will need to use it. Believe most banks charge about $45 for foreign wire transfer fee and there is a small fee of about $5 at exchange bank and then a small fee (.0025) or so here but you get a good exchange rate by sending USD and only have to do this to keep your account up perhaps once a year. The important thing is to have that wire transfer agreement on file and a password to use for making transactions before you come to Thailand as they are likely to want to see you face to face.

[ernieK24]

Any US bank can transfer your funds visa SWIFT to a bank here in Thailand.  I would just set up a wire transfer agreement with your current bank that you can perform by mail or by phone the few times you will need to use it.  Believe most banks charge about $45 for foreign wire transfer fee and there is a small fee of about $5 at exchange bank and then a small fee (.0025) or so here but you get a good exchange rate by sending USD and only have to do this to keep your account up perhaps once a year.  The important thing is to have that wire transfer agreement on file and a password to use for making transactions before you come to Thailand as they are likely to want to see you face to face.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thank you Lopburi. That's exactly what I wanted to know, whether I should make the arrangements before I leave, then make the transfers either by phone.....or by fax, from Thailand. What a relief. My fears were that I'd have to fly to Thailand for a few days, open the account, fly home, and THEN make the arrangements for the future transfers at my local bank.

I recall in an earlier post that you didn't particularly favor Citibank as a BKK bank to set up an account, to recieve the transfers, and hold my account. Any particular reason.....? My bank here in the U.S. is now Citi and I just figured it would be a little less trouble to transfer from citi in U.S. to citi in Bkk. Thanks for your info. Ernie

[buadhai]

I found,at that time, that Schwab wire transfers was the cheapest at $25 per transfer.  However, I also learned on a thread that at SCB, and others, a "teller point of sale" transaction using a debit card entails minimum fees, only the currency conversion cost.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Can you tell me how this works in a little more detail?

[ProThaiExpat]

I found,at that time, that Schwab wire transfers was the cheapest at $25 per transfer.  However, I also learned on a thread that at SCB, and others, a "teller point of sale" transaction using a debit card entails minimum fees, only the currency conversion cost.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Can you tell me how this works in a little more detail?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I expereienced such a variance in wire transfer policies among the various financial institutions I checked out, including off shore ones, that I offer the following only for the named institutions.

Schwab has an international division at their headquarters in San Francisco with 24 hour telephone and e-mail services. They are also multi-lingual. If you are not a resident in the U.S., they require you to have an international account that does not permit U.S. mutual fund investment. I have since learned that I could have side-stepped the issue by using a friends address in the U.S.

Anyway, I opend an international account which comes with most banking features including wire transfers. I sent in all of the supplied forms linking my Schwab account with the SCB account in Thailand and then did a test trransfer via e-mail. Two days later the money was in my account in Thailand for a $25 charge.

Next month, I was advised about a new pricing policy to go in effect, I will be given a free wire transfer per quarter.

Schwab also links their accounts with any bank account in the U.S. by you merely filing a form with them. Then you access your account at Schwab via the internet and instruct them to send money to or from your bank account without charge. The same linkage system is used by IngDriect, the worldwide saving bank that offers a few percentage points higher interest than banks in any given country. They also have wire transfer services but at a $40 rate. My bank in the U.S. charges $60 per transfer and requires a letter.

Schwab perfers a phone call on their toll free phone line or collect call line to activate a transfer for security reasons. They question you extenisively about personal security questions before doing it, however.

I also have a Schwab debit card that when taken to SCB, can be used for a "teller point of sale" transaction, similar to using your debit card with any merchant, in which up to 250kBaht per day can be transferred into your SCB account. The daily limit is placed on the transaction by SCB, not Schwab. No fees involved.

Since I enjoy internet banking, it is a must for me to feel comfortable. Thus my bank in the U.S. and Schwab are all accessd by internet and I am in the process of doing the same with SCB. You don't want to hear the problems I have had in doing so with SCB, but I am close to completing that with them, hopefully this week.

Any further questions, please PM me.

Edited March 1, 2005 by ProThaiExpat

[devildog683]

What are the bank charges when you received and pay.

Our bank Siam Commercial Bank charge for income money THB 220, but sometimes she send to us example USD 100 but the SCB-Bank received USD 89. Intrust Bank send USD 100 from USA to American Express Thailand and AE charge also USD 11 and send USD 89 to SCB-Bank.  Is this correct, follow the Intrust Bank when this happend in USA she no charge. Why can the Intrust Bank not send directly to SCB-Bank, we give SWIFT-Code of our bank to our customers. But from some banks comes the transfer not directly to our bank but via other banks in Thailand and they charge also.

Who can give advise how to send directly to our bank account.

Thanks

Pattani

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

i know my bank charged $25 for international transfer and my wifes Bangkok Bank Branch takes anywhere from 250-500b

[lopburi3]

Thank you Lopburi. That's exactly what I wanted to know, whether I should make the arrangements before I leave, then make the transfers either by phone.....or by fax, from Thailand. What a relief. My fears were that I'd have to fly to Thailand for a few days, open the account, fly home, and THEN make the arrangements for the future transfers at my local bank.

I recall in an earlier post that you didn't particularly favor Citibank as a BKK bank to set up an account, to recieve the transfers, and hold my account. Any  particular reason.....? My bank here in the U.S. is now Citi and I just figured it would be a little less trouble to transfer from citi in U.S. to citi in Bkk. Thanks for your info. Ernie

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Believe another poster has said Washingtion Mutual would not allow wire transfer other than in person so check that out first.

My reason for not using US banks here is that there is only one - would rather be free to use any atm than be restricted. But other reason is attitude - they have not been happy to serve any but business customers with account on the six figure range ($) in the past so have never considered them for normal banking. They do not seem to offer any advantage over local banks for money transfer either. But I am willing to learn.

[ernieK24]

Thank you Lopburi. That's exactly what I wanted to know, whether I should make the arrangements before I leave, then make the transfers either by phone.....or by fax, from Thailand. What a relief. My fears were that I'd have to fly to Thailand for a few days, open the account, fly home, and THEN make the arrangements for the future transfers at my local bank.

I recall in an earlier post that you didn't particularly favor Citibank as a BKK bank to set up an account, to recieve the transfers, and hold my account. Any  particular reason.....? My bank here in the U.S. is now Citi and I just figured it would be a little less trouble to transfer from citi in U.S. to citi in Bkk. Thanks for your info. Ernie

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Believe another poster has said Washingtion Mutual would not allow wire transfer other than in person so check that out first.

My reason for not using US banks here is that there is only one - would rather be free to use any atm than be restricted. But other reason is attitude - they have not been happy to serve any but business customers with account on the six figure range ($) in the past so have never considered them for normal banking. They do not seem to offer any advantage over local banks for money transfer either. But I am willing to learn.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

ErnieK.....Thankyouverymuch Lop, for the excellent information. I currently have a joint acct. at BKK Bank, with my lady, but fearful they won't let me use THAT acct. to collect my neccessary 800,000 B, making it possible to permanently make LOS my new home. Therefore, I will probably open an additional account in my name only, and have the neccessary funds transferred as required. I also have a pension from previous employment, in addition to my SS income, which will, of course reduce the amount I will need in an account. Thanks again. Ernie

In the meantime.....save a tree.........eat a beaver.

[ProThaiExpat]

The last post seems problematical. Citing pension and bank acount funds to satisfy immigration retirement funds requirements. Most retirees go the personal bank account route. Separate account for mate. It has been posted that immigration will accept double the required amount if it is a joint account.

My route is U.S. depository to personal bank account in Thailand for immigration and then an automatic transfer of funds monthly for living expenses, to a joint account with my Thai. Part of my estate plan is to provide untouchable monthly living expense payments to my Thai upon my death through this method.

[JimGant]

>>Most retirees go the personal bank account route. Separate account for mate. It has been posted that immigration will accept double the required amount if it is a joint account.<<

(quote thingy won't work with Firefox -- but it would if I switched to IE???)

Anyways,

Pro, where'd you read this? I'd been under the impression a joint account would work the same as a separate account(?).

[sbaker8688]

Again it is up to the customer to shop around and believe me the best way is when possible use the branches of the same bank for any international transfer.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Let me see if I understand this correctly. Are you saying that if I live in the U.S., and if I open an account and move my funds to the Bangkok Bank branch in New York, then when I want to wire myself funds in Bangkok, it will be cheaper because I am dealing with two branches of the same bank, one in America and one in Bangkok?

I'd like to know this answer, because I am in the U.S. and am moving to Thailand very soon.

Another question - who do you believe has the best rates for wiring money, and also exchange?

Thanks.

[ProThaiExpat]

JimGant: I can't cite an authority. Whether from speaking with Thai immigration during a visit or reading posts, I am under the definite impression that a savings account in the falangs name is required to qualify for the financial resposibility requirement of long stay.

It does seem logical, that if the joint account is in double the required amount, it might be acceptable, depending on the immigration officer in question.

I can see the logic that if another, such as a "purported bar girl/wife" has the ability to drain your account and take off, you would not have the financials necessary as required by immigration.

I have been tempted to "try" a joint account application to see what reaction I would get, but its just too easy to keep the required amount in my name and draw down on it into a joint account for expenses.

[lopburi3]

There have been several recent posts about being required to have twice the amount in a joint account for it to be accepted - do not know if this is an upcountry interpretation at one office; (and can imagine two retirees getting together in a joint account of 400k each if they could), or real policy, but can understand the rational. I do know that joint accounts have always been accepted for support Thai wife and believe they only require the normal amount in them.

[JimGant]

Mmmmm. A new wrinkle.

I had planned to use our joint account when I applied for an extension based on retirement (discussion on this forum has led me to believe this option is better than a 'support' extension, which I could also do, as the wife is Thai). But if there's any possibility I'll be asked to show 1.6M baht in this joint account, well, I'll just open a single account instead.

Ok, but the purpose of the joint account was "joint access" and "right of survivorship." Does anyone know whether or not I can get two ATM cards with a single account -- and can I set it up so that the wife has access and survivorship rights? Not getting a second ATM is no big deal (she can use mine), but access (e.g., her going to the bank and conducting business with my passbook) and survivorship are. In the latter case, I'd hate for her to have to go thru probate to get the assets (yeah, yeah, she could clean it out with the ATM card or Internet transfer -- but I like things neat and clean).

I'm not completely whistling in the dark here -- I remember someone telling me he had a single account in Thailand, and the wife had privleges to it. But he's not available right now for amplification.

Thanx.