Thai Wife Scams My Blue Book

[galowgala]

I got married about 1 and a half years ago to a Thai lady, My house is owned by my company,

She noticed on my blue book for my house that the name in it was the German builders Thai wife's name was in the blue book, so she went to the Amphur office to change it for me, but unbeknown to me as i was signing the documents in Thai.

she was actually putting the house book in here name and not my company as i thought. now she has the house in her name she has made all efforts to split us up and tells me now that the house is hers and i cant have it back. I went to a Thai lawyer and he tells me that the chanute is still my company's name so i own the land but she owns the building now.

The lawyer tells me i can knock the house down as her house is on my company's land, that really is not going to help me as i need to sell it to try and retrieve some of the money she has creamed out of me, with all her stories, i don't want to bore you with all them stories and lies. but basically what can i do, if anything to get my house back, please can i have constructive and correct info, as i really don't need to be told what a " Stupid Farang " I am. Im distressed enough as it is.

[Marksamui]

I thought that the blue book just is used to who is registered to live at that address. Every Thai needs to be in one, and it should be for the property where they live. If your wife lives in the house she would need to be in the book.

It does not mean that she owns the house. Unless I am confused by another blue book?

[lopburi3]

She noticed on my blue book for my house that the name in it was the German builders Thai wife's name was in the blue book

I am not a lawyer but I would tread very lightly - there seems to be current concern about nominee/company ownership to obtain property rights for foreigners here and would not want to be a test case in that saga. I would not burn the barn down at this point.

[Bobsyouruncle]

I got married about 1 and a half years ago to a Thai lady, My house is owned by my company,

She noticed on my blue book for my house that the name in it was the German builders Thai wife's name was in the blue book, so she went to the Amphur office to change it for me, but unbeknown to me as i was signing the documents in Thai.

she was actually putting the house book in here name and not my company as i thought. now she has the house in her name she has made all efforts to split us up and tells me now that the house is hers and i cant have it back. I went to a Thai lawyer and he tells me that the chanute is still my company's name so i own the land but she owns the building now.

The lawyer tells me i can knock the house down as her house is on my company's land, that really is not going to help me as i need to sell it to try and retrieve some of the money she has creamed out of me, with all her stories, i don't want to bore you with all them stories and lies. but basically what can i do, if anything to get my house back, please can i have constructive and correct info, as i really don't need to be told what a " Stupid Farang " I am. Im distressed enough as it is.

I am sorry to hear about your troubles galowgala, you will need to think very carefully about this one before proceding.

If I was you I would be contacting Issan Lawyers as they have a vast amount of experience regarding property settlements between husband and wife.

Only a good lawyer will be able to give you the right advice.

Best of luck to you, please keep us informed as to your progress.

[Heng]

I thought that the blue book just is used to who is registered to live at that address. Every Thai needs to be in one, and it should be for the property where they live. If your wife lives in the house she would need to be in the book.

It does not mean that she owns the house. Unless I am confused by another blue book?

Yes, that's all a house registration is. Just a list of people who live at a particular house. The chanote is king.

Edited July 3, 2009 by Heng

[Carib]

Who has got the chanote of the place and on who`s name is it written out to??

That is what counts.

So you think you are scammed because of the blue book?? Something wrong in your relationship me thinks.

[galowgala]

Who has got the chanote of the place and on who`s name is it written out to??

That is what counts.

So you think you are scammed because of the blue book?? Something wrong in your relationship me thinks.

I still have the chanute and blue book in my safe at home and my wife has gone, she is now getting very nasty with all sorts of threats. it was a con from the 1st day she met me, she continuously gave me story's to extrude money from me, for her and her family.I told her from the start that i don't send money to her family they are not my responsability and she said not a problem. then we got married then it all changed, I gave in to some of the lies and gave money out. I then put a stop to it, as i could not financially afford to do it anymore.

[Bobsyouruncle]

Who has got the chanote of the place and on who`s name is it written out to??

That is what counts.

So you think you are scammed because of the blue book?? Something wrong in your relationship me thinks.

I still have the chanute and blue book in my safe at home and my wife has gone, she is now getting very nasty with all sorts of threats. it was a con from the 1st day she met me, she continuously gave me story's to extrude money from me, for her and her family.I told her from the start that i don't send money to her family they are not my responsability and she said not a problem. then we got married then it all changed, I gave in to some of the lies and gave money out. I then put a stop to it, as i could not financially afford to do it anymore.

I think you are safe from her now.

My wife also told me the same as Heng's advice...the blue book only records the people living at that residence. Chanote is king.

Dig your heals in mate. It is your property and she can't take it away from you.

Perhaps you are wise to sell it quickly and then build somewhere else in the future.

Good luck.

[Mario2008]

He did tell that he had to sign some papers in Thai. We don't know what those papers were.

She noticed on my blue book for my house that the name in it was the German builders Thai wife's name was in the blue book, so she went to the Amphur office to change it for me, but unbeknown to me as i was signing the documents in Thai.she was actually putting the house book in here name and not my company as i thought.

[imaneggspurt]

Who has got the chanote of the place and on who`s name is it written out to??

That is what counts.

So you think you are scammed because of the blue book?? Something wrong in your relationship me thinks.

With all due respect. nothing like stating the obvious, "Something wrong in your relationship me thinks."

[jcon]

Whoever is listed as the "Chao" in the bluebook doesn't necessarily own the house. It's all about the chanote. Like others have said, the bluebook is just a register of who is living in the house, or at least who is registered there. I have bluebooks with no names in them at all, because I only register in one residence.

You're ok, as long as you didn't sign away your rights when you signed the 'other' documents.... be careful there. If she's scamming you already, she probably will try to scam you out of this one, too... check the chanote - now.

[Heng]

I still have the chanute and blue book in my safe at home and my wife has gone

As long as the chanote is not in her name, you should be free and clear. If it IS in her name (for some folks), it doesn't matter where you keep the chanote as she can report it lost and get a new one issued (true, it can take more time, but in the end, it's inevitable).

As to whether the whole company (and I assume she's not a shareholder) as owner thing will ever come down, that's another issue as at least it won't be hers.

[jerrylee]

Who has got the chanote of the place and on who`s name is it written out to??

That is what counts.

So you think you are scammed because of the blue book?? Something wrong in your relationship me thinks.

I still have the chanute and blue book in my safe at home and my wife has gone, she is now getting very nasty with all sorts of threats. it was a con from the 1st day she met me, she continuously gave me story's to extrude money from me, for her and her family.I told her from the start that i don't send money to her family they are not my responsability and she said not a problem. then we got married then it all changed, I gave in to some of the lies and gave money out. I then put a stop to it, as i could not financially afford to do it anymore.

You've failed twice, fooled by the girl, and fooled by the Business Game, cannot afford a third mistake?

in my opinion, it'll cost least to your wallet and your head if you just walk away from it now.

Based on a similar case that happened to somebody I know - the lawyer proposed a 6 month period for the guy to either come up with 50% of the land costs to buy it off the common law wife (before you can have a say to the structure on it) or simply pack up and leave ... your're over-ruled by the majority shareholder and the company is illegal.

[oracle]

I got married about 1 and a half years ago to a Thai lady, My house is owned by my company,

She noticed on my blue book for my house that the name in it was the German builders Thai wife's name was in the blue book, so she went to the Amphur office to change it for me, but unbeknown to me as i was signing the documents in Thai.

she was actually putting the house book in here name and not my company as i thought. now she has the house in her name she has made all efforts to split us up and tells me now that the house is hers and i cant have it back. I went to a Thai lawyer and he tells me that the chanute is still my company's name so i own the land but she owns the building now.

The lawyer tells me i can knock the house down as her house is on my company's land, that really is not going to help me as i need to sell it to try and retrieve some of the money she has creamed out of me, with all her stories, i don't want to bore you with all them stories and lies. but basically what can i do, if anything to get my house back, please can i have constructive and correct info, as i really don't need to be told what a " Stupid Farang " I am. Im distressed enough as it is.

Your wife maybe did this with the best of intentions, so don’t judge her to soon about this. For you it's not important who is registered in the house book as the owner.

More important is who is on the building permit. If this is the builder’s wife, she is technically the owner. The only way to solve this is by transferring the house at the land department to your name or your company’s name. Who is on the building permit?

[FarangRed]

The blue book is the Tabien Baan which means house registration only shows who lives there and mostly for Thai people not farang.

For your wife to say she owns the house she would have to have a lease contract produced by your company allowing her to rent the house from your company for however many years.

The building permit was in who's name? not your wife's then not problem.

I think if it came to it she could not even produce one reciept or a purchase agreement

[imaneggspurt]

I got married about 1 and a half years ago to a Thai lady, My house is owned by my company,

She noticed on my blue book for my house that the name in it was the German builders Thai wife's name was in the blue book, so she went to the Amphur office to change it for me, but unbeknown to me as i was signing the documents in Thai.

she was actually putting the house book in here name and not my company as i thought. now she has the house in her name she has made all efforts to split us up and tells me now that the house is hers and i cant have it back. I went to a Thai lawyer and he tells me that the chanute is still my company's name so i own the land but she owns the building now.

The lawyer tells me i can knock the house down as her house is on my company's land, that really is not going to help me as i need to sell it to try and retrieve some of the money she has creamed out of me, with all her stories, i don't want to bore you with all them stories and lies. but basically what can i do, if anything to get my house back, please can i have constructive and correct info, as i really don't need to be told what a " Stupid Farang " I am. Im distressed enough as it is.

Your wife maybe did this with the best of intentions, so don't judge her to soon about this. For you it's not important who is registered in the house book as the owner.

More important is who is on the building permit. If this is the builder's wife, she is technically the owner. The only way to solve this is by transferring the house at the land department to your name or your company's name. Who is on the building permit?

Did you miss this bit ?........".The lawyer tells me i can knock the house down as her house is on my company's land, that really is not going to help me as i need to sell it to try and retrieve some of the money she has creamed out of me, with all her stories"

[BigSnake]

Find another wife

[eljeque]

......I am with the majority who believe that you are fine.

...... And think the first thing you should do is find another lawyer.

I got married about 1 and a half years ago to a Thai lady, My house is owned by my company,

..... This would be land and house. I am sure that when you bought the property from, or had it built by the German developer, he sold you/your company both land and a house. See the contract.

She noticed on my blue book for my house that the name in it was the German builders Thai wife's name was in the blue book,

..... very common, as they need a name to start out

so she went to the Amphur office to change it for me, but unbeknown to me as i was signing the documents in Thai.

...... What documents were you signing?, as the wife of the German builder should have been there signing her name off the Tabien Bahn and your wife would have been signing her name onto it, as a resident.

.......Just a note: City Hall holds the office which provides the permit to build "Anuwatbuksan". This does not imply ownership. And, I am not familar with the name being changed after the building is completed. The permit was given to the German builder to construct the property. Your wife did not become the new builder.

..... The Amphur's office is for the Tabien Bahn, IT IS NOT THE LAND OFFICE for the chinote, AND IS NOT THE COMMERCIAL OFFICE for the company registration. The tabien ban is a document for showing who lives in the house. No ownership is implied.

she was actually putting the house book in her name and not my company as i thought. now she has the house in her name she has made all efforts to split us up and tells me now that the house is hers

....... If the info from you above is accurate, then your wife is sorely mistaken. She has no rights to the property based on the tabien bahn. That does not mean that she does not know that she has no rights, only that she has no rights based on it. She may very well think that she is in power.

and i cant have it back. I went to a Thai lawyer and he tells me that the chanute is still my company's name so i own the land but she owns the building now.

....... I would bet that there was a misunderstanding in the translation. You need to find a new lawyer, and or go to the land office and see if the house is shown on your chinote or not. Or, see your accountant who takes care of your company every year, and ask him/her. Also, if you or your company paid the German builder for the house to be built, then you are on solid ground.

The lawyer tells me i can knock the house down as her house is on my company's land,

...... He tells you that the house belongs to her and also that you can knock it down... if so, then why can't you sell it? Odd, don't you think?

that really is not going to help me as i need to sell it to try and retrieve some of the money she has creamed out of me, with all her stories, i don't want to bore you with all them stories and lies. but basically what can i do, if anything to get my house back,

........ I don't think that you have lost your house. Calm down and see another lawyer, go to the land office, see your accountant who takes care of everything on the company for you.

Your wife maybe did this with the best of intentions, so don’t judge her to soon about this. For you it's not important who is registered in the house book as the owner.

..............Yes!!!

Best of luck, but don't worry.

[InterestedObserver]

You should get a copy of the document you signed and have it translated. If your wife did not somehow secure land rights, such as a lease, then she can't own the house, your company does. Look at the chanote, make sure that nothing new has been recorded on the back. If a new 'sale agreement' for the house was not registered at the land office, then the original building permit should still be valid as proof of ownership. The Tabien Bahn alone does not establish house ownership. What concerns me is the statement by your lawyer that your wife owns the building now, how so. What does he know that we don't? On the face of it, a piece of the puzzle is missing.

[aussiebebe]

She noticed on my blue book for my house that the name in it was the German builders Thai wife's name was in the blue book, so she went to the Amphur office to change it for me, but unbeknown to me as i was signing the documents in Thai.

she was actually putting the house book in here name and not my company as i thought. now she has the house in her name

The blue book isn't anything to do with ownership of the house. I think it's a legal requirement for all Thais to be registered in the book, it isn't realated to ownership.

[Vang2x]

I got married about 1 and a half years ago to a Thai lady, My house is owned by my company,

She noticed on my blue book for my house that the name in it was the German builders Thai wife's name was in the blue book, so she went to the Amphur office to change it for me, but unbeknown to me as i was signing the documents in Thai.

she was actually putting the house book in here name and not my company as i thought. now she has the house in her name she has made all efforts to split us up and tells me now that the house is hers and i cant have it back. I went to a Thai lawyer and he tells me that the chanute is still my company's name so i own the land but she owns the building now.

The lawyer tells me i can knock the house down as her house is on my company's land, that really is not going to help me as i need to sell it to try and retrieve some of the money she has creamed out of me, with all her stories, i don't want to bore you with all them stories and lies. but basically what can i do, if anything to get my house back, please can i have constructive and correct info, as i really don't need to be told what a " Stupid Farang " I am. Im distressed enough as it is.

I can't really digest how cruel some people are. That is ABUSE,CHEATING,STEALING, SWINDLING and still a CRIME. The problem is there's no LAW that support such inhumane act. I'm very "impressed" as it is such the "safest" way to do ROBBERY without being LIABLE to it, yes, MARRIAGE. Can you sue your marital partner anyway regarding that matter? Or has anyone asked for justice to those who had done the crime to them? I know...the answer is __________(just blank.) It seems like it's a "system" planned attainable in years, luring the prey until the time is right to trap them! Better than a business plan! I wouldn't say it's a perfect crime but definitely a WAY of INCOME at the expense of others. Instead of being GRATEFUL for what the other person has offered to them which we are all aware one could HARDLY HAVE and ENJOY, look what they give back? I should say I have more respect for those who commit petty crimes than these kinds of felonious creatures- just no shame!

It's definitely beyond imagination that people who are doing this can still walk with their heads up and enjoying the things which they don't really OWN. I'm not sure if I can still speak of the word GUILT, I doubt if there is.

I'm sorry to hear about your situation. We are all prone to errors, you may be outsmarted by someone you never thought had the capabilities to do such a thing to you. You just trusted her, that's all. Moreover, you are not alone who has the experience. But it doesn't mean that you don't have to do anything about it. If you just sit right there then it's as pointless for you to complain or criticize any system or anything else (in case you'd think of this) when you can't defend your own self. These crimes are continously happening, getting worse and more practiced as of course, they're very effective. Maybe because no victim hadn't really done something about this.

Good luck and hope that'd be cleared up soon.

On the other hand,it's in the hard way but still this serves a lesson. Then perhaps those who wish to marry can consider PRE NUPTIAL AGREEMENT to protect themeselves. Better be safe than sorry so to speak.

[Maestro]

Somebody please tell me if this is wrong, but I believe the house registration book (blue book) has two sections for names:

1. At the very top is the section for the head of the household.

2. This is followed by the section with the names of the people registered to live in this household.

3. If the head of the household also lives in the house, his name will be both in the first and in the second section.

4. The person shown as the head of the household has the authority to approve new names as residents and to have names deleted in the second section.

5. I understand that even if the name in the first section, the name of the head of the household, is changed that does not mean a change in the ownership of the house, because the “blue book” does not denote ownership.

6. I also understand that the “blue book” is the basis for getting the Thai ID card and for the voting register. For this reason every Thai national is allowed to have his name in the second section of only one “blue book”

Like I said, I am not sure about all this so if anybody has the facts, please correct any of the above points.

At this point we do not know into which section of the "blue book" the name of the OP's wife has been entered but as said by others, even if it were in the first section this would not make her the owner of the house if she was not the owner previously.

--

Maestro

[Carib]

Again, Blue book has nothing to do with ownership of the house. Neither does a building permit and the name which is on it. It is a permit to BUILD. If selling a house would it always belong to the builder?? Right !

[thaiwanderer]

As the OP is in a hurry to sell can he easily establish to a prospective buyer that he actually owns the house?

Chanote for the land alone does not.

Has ownership of the house been registered at the land office?

If not, isn't the blue book required (along with a number of other documents) as part of the registration process (which includes a 30 day public notice inviting objections to the house being registered in the OP's company's name)?

Is the building permit in the OP's company's name?

Is there an appropriately detailed construction contract or house sale and purchase contract (or suffcient such clauses included in the land sale and purchase contract)?

IMHO the blue book being in the wife's name does not necessarily denote her ownership or ensure the house cannot be registered to the OP's company but it is certainly a stumbling block (particularly if in a hurry to sell) and registered ownership of the land alone (with the a blue book in the name of an aggrieved wife) is unlikely to be attractive to a buyer.

(edit - also who knows what the OP signed - maybe a 3year lease / right of habitation ?

Edited July 3, 2009 by thaiwanderer

[galowgala]

Who has got the chanote of the place and on who`s name is it written out to??

That is what counts.

So you think you are scammed because of the blue book?? Something wrong in your relationship me thinks.

With all due respect. nothing like stating the obvious, "Something wrong in your relationship me thinks."

Wow i knew there would b some rocket scientist wanting to comment

[katabeachbum]

I got married about 1 and a half years ago to a Thai lady, My house is owned by my company,

She noticed on my blue book for my house that the name in it was the German builders Thai wife's name was in the blue book, so she went to the Amphur office to change it for me, but unbeknown to me as i was signing the documents in Thai.

she was actually putting the house book in here name and not my company as i thought. now she has the house in her name she has made all efforts to split us up and tells me now that the house is hers and i cant have it back. I went to a Thai lawyer and he tells me that the chanute is still my company's name so i own the land but she owns the building now.

The lawyer tells me i can knock the house down as her house is on my company's land, that really is not going to help me as i need to sell it to try and retrieve some of the money she has creamed out of me, with all her stories, i don't want to bore you with all them stories and lies. but basically what can i do, if anything to get my house back, please can i have constructive and correct info, as i really don't need to be told what a " Stupid Farang " I am. Im distressed enough as it is.

Seems like your lawyer has given you wrong info. The land and the house belongs to the co ltd, nomatter who is registered living in it in tabien baan.

Managing director of the co ltd can go to Amphur and get a new Tabien baan (costs 20 baht) without any resident registered, or have her deleted from existing Tabien baan. Then your ex wife does not have access to the property any more, unless you let her in.

[galowgala]

I got married about 1 and a half years ago to a Thai lady, My house is owned by my company,

She noticed on my blue book for my house that the name in it was the German builders Thai wife's name was in the blue book, so she went to the Amphur office to change it for me, but unbeknown to me as i was signing the documents in Thai.

she was actually putting the house book in here name and not my company as i thought. now she has the house in her name she has made all efforts to split us up and tells me now that the house is hers and i cant have it back. I went to a Thai lawyer and he tells me that the chanute is still my company's name so i own the land but she owns the building now.

The lawyer tells me i can knock the house down as her house is on my company's land, that really is not going to help me as i need to sell it to try and retrieve some of the money she has creamed out of me, with all her stories, i don't want to bore you with all them stories and lies. but basically what can i do, if anything to get my house back, please can i have constructive and correct info, as i really don't need to be told what a " Stupid Farang " I am. Im distressed enough as it is.

I can't really digest how cruel some people are. That is ABUSE,CHEATING,STEALING, SWINDLING and still a CRIME. The problem is there's no LAW that support such inhumane act. I'm very "impressed" as it is such the "safest" way to do ROBBERY without being LIABLE to it, yes, MARRIAGE. Can you sue your marital partner anyway regarding that matter? Or has anyone asked for justice to those who had done the crime to them? I know...the answer is __________(just blank.) It seems like it's a "system" planned attainable in years, luring the prey until the time is right to trap them! Better than a business plan! I wouldn't say it's a perfect crime but definitely a WAY of INCOME at the expense of others. Instead of being GRATEFUL for what the other person has offered to them which we are all aware one could HARDLY HAVE and ENJOY, look what they give back? I should say I have more respect for those who commit petty crimes than these kinds of felonious creatures- just no shame!

It's definitely beyond imagination that people who are doing this can still walk with their heads up and enjoying the things which they don't really OWN. I'm not sure if I can still speak of the word GUILT, I doubt if there is.

I'm sorry to hear about your situation. We are all prone to errors, you may be outsmarted by someone you never thought had the capabilities to do such a thing to you. You just trusted her, that's all. Moreover, you are not alone who has the experience. But it doesn't mean that you don't have to do anything about it. If you just sit right there then it's as pointless for you to complain or criticize any system or anything else (in case you'd think of this) when you can't defend your own self. These crimes are continously happening, getting worse and more practiced as of course, they're very effective. Maybe because no victim hadn't really done something about this.

Good luck and hope that'd be cleared up soon.

On the other hand,it's in the hard way but still this serves a lesson. Then perhaps those who wish to marry can consider PRE NUPTIAL AGREEMENT to protect themeselves. Better be safe than sorry so to speak.

very interesting reading and all very true, thank you for your insight and i totally agree with all you have said and by the way i also had a prenuptual agreement, but this being Thailand i don't trust that now.

[glegolo]

I got married about 1 and a half years ago to a Thai lady, My house is owned by my company,

She noticed on my blue book for my house that the name in it was the German builders Thai wife's name was in the blue book, so she went to the Amphur office to change it for me, but unbeknown to me as i was signing the documents in Thai.

she was actually putting the house book in here name and not my company as i thought. now she has the house in her name she has made all efforts to split us up and tells me now that the house is hers and i cant have it back. I went to a Thai lawyer and he tells me that the chanute is still my company's name so i own the land but she owns the building now.

The lawyer tells me i can knock the house down as her house is on my company's land, that really is not going to help me as i need to sell it to try and retrieve some of the money she has creamed out of me, with all her stories, i don't want to bore you with all them stories and lies. but basically what can i do, if anything to get my house back, please can i have constructive and correct info, as i really don't need to be told what a " Stupid Farang " I am. Im distressed enough as it is.

----------------------------

Dont think too much about that lawyer.. I just checked with my best friends wife (Isaan), and she clearly can confirm what other guys had said ealier here.

Blue book is just a confirmation of what THAI people living in the house, the Yellow book tells only what FALANG lives in the house And the Chanote is the big paper. This one proves ownership.

Good luck, and I am sad that your marriage has gone bad.

Glegolo

[geriatrickid]

To those of you that gave simple easy to follow answers, thank you. I am one of those people planning on purchasing something at some point down the road, and this thread has been helpful. I know that there are others like me reading and following closely.

[Detox]

to the OP.

IMO, Many times a Thai spouse thinks they know how the law works, but they really do not.

Your company owns the land. Unless you signed a lease agreement leasing the home to her in those papers you spoke of, she has no rights at all.

The blue book as many have stated in this thread is just the tabian baan and means little in the scheme of things.

If your bought the house prior to your marriage to her, this will also strong point in the divorce in relation to dividing of assets. (just an point that has not been mentioned thus far).

In my limited experience, I think you will be fine. Karma catches up on us all.

I wish you well Sir.

Let us all know how your get on.

Edited July 4, 2009 by Detox