Kingpower Talks Back!

[wefearourdespot]

i agree with Laopo, by letting go such acts (extortion), KP discredit itself.

Yes the thieves must be punished .

But it seems obvious that KP don't care that a band of thugs have set up

an extortion business (bound to problems that all stores can enconter : shoplifting)

involving KP shops.

From now on I will not put a foot in these stores and i will advise all my friends

to avoid them.

Aren't the sky high prices by themselves enough to stay away already ?

[fred2007]

i agree with Laopo, by letting go such acts (extortion), KP discredit itself.

Yes the thieves must be punished .

But it seems obvious that KP don't care that a band of thugs have set up

an extortion business (bound to problems that all stores can enconter : shoplifting)

involving KP shops.

From now on I will not put a foot in these stores and i will advise all my friends

to avoid them.

Aren't the sky high prices by themselves enough to stay away already ?

Yeah they might be sky high but they are duty free

[BigSnake]

WOW!! pretty DAMAGING EVIDENCE if CCTV is right on, however; maybe for the sake of the Country or good tourists relation maybe just showing them this CCTV proof, make them pay and send them on their way with a Blacklisting for any return trip to Thailand could have suffice >just a thought.

[jackspratt]

i agree with Laopo, by letting go such acts (extortion), KP discredit itself.

Yes the thieves must be punished .

But it seems obvious that KP don't care that a band of thugs have set up

an extortion business (bound to problems that all stores can enconter : shoplifting)

involving KP shops.

From now on I will not put a foot in these stores and i will advise all my friends

to avoid them.

Between you and your friends, and the others on TV who have made the same vow, we are probably up to 1000+ boycotters by now.

Given the 40+ million passengers each year at Swampy, King Power are no doubt shaking in their boots.

[ukrules]

Also, courts in Thailand do not use juries, for small cases, just a single judge, and he is literally your jury, judge and executioner all rolled into one. You don't stand a chance.

In the UK you can choose to have a trial by jury if you want to. Within the last couple of weeks I read about a case where someone reported a lady for littering when a sweet wrapper came out of the back window of her car, it was a small child who threw it out. A fixed penalty notice was sent to the registered car owner, it ended up in crown court and the judge was furious that something like this could get into his court as it costs so much to process through the system, he threw the charges out. Thousands of pounds were wasted, the local council pursued this prosecution and would not back down.

[isanb]

i agree with Laopo, by letting go such acts (extortion), KP discredit itself.

Yes the thieves must be punished .

But it seems obvious that KP don't care that a band of thugs have set up

an extortion business (bound to problems that all stores can enconter : shoplifting)

involving KP shops.

From now on I will not put a foot in these stores and i will advise all my friends

to avoid them.

Between you and your friends, and the others on TV who have made the same vow, we are probably up to 1000+ boycotters by now.

Given the 40+ million passengers each year at Swampy, King Power are no doubt shaking in their boots.

I think they are, because this case has a negative impact on their brand image around the world.

Why do you think they "talks back" if it's inconsequential for them.

[AnnAnn]

Also, courts in Thailand do not use juries, for small cases, just a single judge, and he is literally your jury, judge and executioner all rolled into one. You don't stand a chance.

In the UK you can choose to have a trial by jury if you want to. Within the last couple of weeks I read about a case where someone reported a lady for littering when a sweet wrapper came out of the back window of her car, it was a small child who threw it out. A fixed penalty notice was sent to the registered car owner, it ended up in crown court and the judge was furious that something like this could get into his court as it costs so much to process through the system, he threw the charges out. Thousands of pounds were wasted, the local council pursued this prosecution and would not back down.

If justice is given, it doesn't not matter at what cost.

[AnnAnn]

Did the British replied after KP put out the CCTV clips?

Not head from them for a while.

What about the British Embassy?

[wayfarer108]

it's a bit like George Bernard Shaw on the train isn't it. Where he meets and strikes up a conversation with a young lady, which leads to talk of sex.

He asks her if she would 'do it' for a million pounds' She thinks for a moment and says, Yes, she would.

Would you do it for five pounds GBS asks.

The young lady is shocked and insulted. 'What do you take me for, what do you think I am?' She wails

Miss, I have already established what you are, we are just haggling about the price.

I think that is what is going on among you here. These two are not just thieves, IMHO they are well practiced ones.

regardless of what transpired later, KP itself has no case to answer in my book and anything else is argumentative.

(feel free to correct my version of the above story if i am wrong in any part, memory, getting old)

[ukrules]

WOW!! pretty DAMAGING EVIDENCE if CCTV is right on, however; maybe for the sake of the Country or good tourists relation maybe just showing them this CCTV proof, make them pay and send them on their way with a Blacklisting for any return trip to Thailand could have suffice >just a thought.

It takes a lot more than petty theft to get someone blacklisted from coming to a country.

[wayfarer108]

I don't know if this has been posted yet but this kind of messages is of great influence in Scandinavia with it's more than 750.000 tourists to Thailand.

Warning: Suvarnabhumi-Scam with terrible consequences

http://www.scandasia.com/viewNews.php?coun...mp;news_id=5547

In the same link someone provided a search in Google:

http://www.google.com/search?client=safari...-8&oe=UTF-8

Kingpower doesn't seem to understand that the whole case isn't -by far- anymore about someone who stole something -or not-, it's about the follow up extortion (also confirmed by the Danish Embassy with one of their citizens, a Lady, who was forced to pay more than GBP 4,500) and the word -extortion- will be remembered.

Not the theft.

LaoPo

I disagree. Virtually ever media mention of the case, till now, implicates King Power in a 'scam.' So it is still very much the point, until that is cleared up. What security did afterward is a second, separate issue.

[LaoPo]

I don't know if this has been posted yet but this kind of messages is of great influence in Scandinavia with it's more than 750.000 tourists to Thailand.

Warning: Suvarnabhumi-Scam with terrible consequences

http://www.scandasia.com/viewNews.php?coun...mp;news_id=5547

In the same link someone provided a search in Google:

http://www.google.com/search?client=safari...-8&oe=UTF-8

Kingpower doesn't seem to understand that the whole case isn't -by far- anymore about someone who stole something -or not-, it's about the follow up extortion (also confirmed by the Danish Embassy with one of their citizens, a Lady, who was forced to pay more than GBP 4,500) and the word -extortion- will be remembered.

Not the theft.

LaoPo

I disagree. Virtually ever media mention of the case, till now, implicates King Power in a 'scam.' So it is still very much the point, until that is cleared up. What security did afterward is a second, separate issue.

As far as I know there isn't any prove yet that Kingpower is or was involved, as much as there is nothing to prove the guilt of the tourists involved, apart from a video, supplied by KP.

That's all.

LaoPo

[GungaDin]

<snip>The rise of rackets like these is a reflection of two things: economic hardship, which usually makes crime attractive, and weak government, which means the perpetrators do not fear the law. Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva's coalition government is drifting, policy-wise. There is no focus, nor any demonstrable executive competency.

The military and now large sections of the police ignore the ministers. The government is also constantly distracted by political problems. It has just lost two by-elections in a row, and going by these results, the pro-Thaksin Puea Thai party is set to win big in the next general election, though whether that would resolve anything in the country's protracted power struggle should not be assumed. When a government has a doomed air about it, and the prospect of a succeeding government being any more effective remote, bureaucrats and police officers start to think only of their own interests, of which lining their own pockets must surely lie at the top of the list.

This is a nasty mix: economic stress, paralysed government, constitutional gridlock.

More

[AnnAnn]

I don't know if this has been posted yet but this kind of messages is of great influence in Scandinavia with it's more than 750.000 tourists to Thailand.

Warning: Suvarnabhumi-Scam with terrible consequences

http://www.scandasia.com/viewNews.php?coun...mp;news_id=5547

In the same link someone provided a search in Google:

http://www.google.com/search?client=safari...-8&oe=UTF-8

Kingpower doesn't seem to understand that the whole case isn't -by far- anymore about someone who stole something -or not-, it's about the follow up extortion (also confirmed by the Danish Embassy with one of their citizens, a Lady, who was forced to pay more than GBP 4,500) and the word -extortion- will be remembered.

Not the theft.

LaoPo

I disagree. Virtually ever media mention of the case, till now, implicates King Power in a 'scam.' So it is still very much the point, until that is cleared up. What security did afterward is a second, separate issue.

As far as I know there isn't any prove yet that Kingpower is or was involved, as much as there is nothing to prove the guilt of the tourists involved, apart from a video, supplied by KP.

That's all.

LaoPo

I felt sorry for KingPower.

Since their name have gone down the drain, it is a good time to change it.

[caf]

A couple of things on this:

1) KP don't have to prove anything to us. We are not the judge or jury. Why would they trot out all their evidence for public consumption? I think they've proven that they had every reason to call security and have the couple taken into custody. What happens beyond that is not KP's business nor their responsibility...even in Thailand.

2) Just in case some of you have forgotten, this is Thailand. Your f*#king British laws don't apply here. I agree with those posters that the couple are lucky they could buy their way out of facing the Thai legal system. Maybe now they will &lt;deleted&gt; and get on with their lives sans ripping people off. Frankly, I hope they DO return to Thailand and insist on their innocence, but I seriously doubt if they will. In the meantime, I see no reason to avoid going into KP shops.

Legally, you are right, KP do not need to prove anything to us. It is a PR damage limitation exercise to save face and note they are not supporting the police on this. That says rather a lot.

They dont have to return to prove their innocence. They already have the police letter confirming that. It was even posted on the internet for people like you to read so that you have all thye facts before you post.

[caf]

Yes, In his statement the Sri Lankan said the couple were extorted.

I have not seen a statement where the Sri Lankan claims the couple were extorted.

We have seen a poor quality video in which a couple probably stole a wallet. Anyone who claims to be able to positively identify the couple from that video is a liar. If I showed a video of an Asian/Farang couple taken from that angle and such poor quality,

Andrew Drummond claims to have seen other video footage and says it is the same couple

A selective and old quote. Andrew has spoken to the Ingrams who have denied the video shows any guilt. If you are going to quote read the entire Drummond site first. The facts show 1. extortion 2. an admission by the police that they are innocent.

[caf]

maybe I've missed it, but have the British couple made a statement regarding the CCTV footage? Or have they gone quiet?

Andrew Drummond has spoken to them. Look on his site. He gives as much as he is legally able to on what the Ingrams said. Kp is not the issue. No accusations towards them are made or implied.

Always speculation of course from their rather chequered history.

[daveb1]

It always amazes me on this forum that when ever it comes to any kind of dispute or argument regarding foreigners and Thais that many people on this forum always take the side of the foreigners and always accuse the Thais of corruption and bad will. I know this country has problems, I know that corruption happens but surly in this case the video evidence of the crime is pretty overwhelming! It would be nice if people looked at the facts a bit more instead of just indulging in constant Thai bashing, I wonder why many of you even bother to live here I By the way I am British before you ask!!!

Edited July 11, 2009 by daveb1

[jacobbells]

Yes, In his statement the Sri Lankan said the couple were extorted.

I have not seen a statement where the Sri Lankan claims the couple were extorted.

We have seen a poor quality video in which a couple probably stole a wallet. Anyone who claims to be able to positively identify the couple from that video is a liar. If I showed a video of an Asian/Farang couple taken from that angle and such poor quality,

Andrew Drummond claims to have seen other video footage and says it is the same couple

A selective and old quote. Andrew has spoken to the Ingrams who have denied the video shows any guilt. If you are going to quote read the entire Drummond site first. The facts show 1. extortion 2. an admission by the police that they are innocent.

I've searched that through Drumond's site. How the fuc_k do you know "Andrew's spoken to the Ingrams who have denied the video shows any guilt"? Are you a work colleague or drinking mate of his? You seem to know a lot about the man and your style of writing is right down his alleyway.

I have read the entire Drummond site and have found No admission by the police that they are innocent. A Sri Lankan translator in books does not count as Thai Police.

This couple are as guilty as fuc_k and as written before they are bloody lucky they aren't rotting in a 10x10 cell in Samut Prakarn Central with a hundred ball-scratching room mates.

Bribing their way out of the justice system makes them them as corrupt as the hands they buttered.

Edited July 11, 2009 by jacobbells

[samran]

maybe I've missed it, but have the British couple made a statement regarding the CCTV footage? Or have they gone quiet?

Andrew Drummond has spoken to them. Look on his site. He gives as much as he is legally able to on what the Ingrams said. Kp is not the issue. No accusations towards them are made or implied.

Always speculation of course from their rather chequered history.

This is the only thread I could find. Maybe I've missed it, but it doesn't appear that he's spoken to them post the CCTV footage being released.

http://www.andrew-drummond.com/2009/06/28/809/

[FreedomDude]

The crimes committed by these individuals are pretty damning, and they certainly received less punishment than they deserved. King Power has done a good job of defending their actions here

HOWEVER, the crimes committed by the police officers who made a windfall profit on this extortion was much, much, much worse.

[loong]

I've searched that through Drumond's site. How the fuc_k do you know "Andrew's spoken to the Ingrams who have denied the video shows any guilt"? Are you a work colleague or drinking mate of his? You seem to know a lot about the man and your style of writing is right down his alleyway.

at http://www.andrew-drummond.com/2009/06/28/809/

Andrew Drummond states July 8, 2009 at 6:01 am ....

The system as it operates, is the only system Thailand has and King Power have to operate under this system. And there are worse cases.

In relation to the videos I have been in touch with Stephen Ingram. He states that the videos do not implicate either Xi Lin or himself. He made a statement off the record, which of course I cannot repeat. He will, I believe, make a statement on the record at a later date.

You didn't search very well did you?

Edited July 11, 2009 by loong

[samran]

I've searched that through Drumond's site. How the fuc_k do you know "Andrew's spoken to the Ingrams who have denied the video shows any guilt"? Are you a work colleague or drinking mate of his? You seem to know a lot about the man and your style of writing is right down his alleyway.

at http://www.andrew-drummond.com/2009/06/28/809/

Andrew Drummond states July 8, 2009 at 6:01 am ....

The system as it operates, is the only system Thailand has and King Power have to operate under this system. And there are worse cases.

In relation to the videos I have been in touch with Stephen Ingram. He states that the videos do not implicate either Xi Lin or himself. He made a statement off the record, which of course I cannot repeat. He will, I believe, make a statement on the record at a later date.

You didn't search very well did you?

the thing that confuses me is that they were so keen to be on the record before the CCTV, but now only want to be off the record?

Edited July 11, 2009 by samran

[loong]

the thing that confuses me is that they were so keen to be on the record before the CCTV, but now only want to be off the record?

I would imagine that if they have something that proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that they are innocent and DO intend to continue with this, it would be unwise to show their hand now.

In all honesty, I really can't think of anything that they can add to their statement. I doubt that they have any videos or photos to support their statement of innocence. I would imagine that they have seen the original video though.

If King Power have access to other videos that can shed some more light on this case, it would be good to see them. Even a better quality video would be useful. I don't believe that the video is a fake, but I am a little suspicious of the quality. I'm sure that the original must be much higher quality than what we have seen. Even the date and time is difficult to read and that should be crystal clear as is added by the computer. It does make me wonder if it is possible that the video has been pixellated on purpose. After all many people found it difficult to read the time stamp, yet are able to make a positive ID of the couple.

[dbrenn]

A thief is a thief. They are obviously thieves. No sympathy here.

Right - people always assume that Thailand is at fault, but these two are nothing more than common thieves and liars. They were caught red-handed and deserved to be punished.

[Mario2008]

A thief is a thief. They are obviously thieves. No sympathy here.

Right - people always assume that Thailand is at fault, but these two are nothing more than common thieves and liars. They were caught red-handed and deserved to be punished.

Guilty or not, that doesn't change the fact that there seems to be a scam going on by the police. That is much more serious than shoplifting and so far no comment from the government.

[LaoPo]

A thief is a thief. They are obviously thieves. No sympathy here.

Right - people always assume that Thailand is at fault, but these two are nothing more than common thieves and liars. They were caught red-handed and deserved to be punished.

Guilty or not, that doesn't change the fact that there seems to be a scam going on by the police. That is much more serious than shoplifting and so far no comment from the government.

Exactly and I fully agree!

I posted about this earlier:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Kingpower-Ta...04#entry2860804

What is most disturbing in this thread is the fact that over and over again some members play the Judge here and claim that the couple involved is guilty, purely based on the footage supplied by Kingpower, although this video is very vague whilst the couple claims that it is not them on the video.

I don't know, but in my vision EVERYBODY is innocent until found guilty and at least the suspect has had a chance to try and prove that they are not guilty.

It's disgusting that some members claim they know the truth, knowing they can't claim to know the truth because they weren't there.

Apart from the theft -or no theft- some members also seem to agree with the extortion scam and even cry out loud: let them rot in jail. How disgusting.

I really hope for the sake of the family of those members that they don't have to call expensive lawyers to try and bail out the same member(s) if they end up in a kind of big trouble themselves, innocent.

The ultimate nightmare for everybody !

It's not the first time, also in Thailand, innocent people are scammed, extorted and put in jail

================================================================================

==

"What generally happens is this.

When an outbound traveller buys anything from a shop in the airport -- and it could well be a small-value purchase, not necessarily an expensive one -- one of three things can happen:

a: the cashier either drops an extra item into your shopping bag without you noticing;

b: the cashier gives you that extra item saying it's a free gift; or

c: if you're buying more than one item, the cashier charges you for one less than you're buying.

A few metres out of the shop, a security guard stops you, saying you have been fingered as a shoplifter. Your shopping bag is searched and sure enough, you have one unpaid item in it.

You are taken to a police station and miss your flight. Your passport is taken away from you, and you are thrown into a lock-up. At this point, you're totally desperate. Out of the blue, a fixer appears. He tells you that he knows how to handle the police. For a fee. The first step is to post bail, because you really don't want to stay in a police lock-up for days on end. He comes back and tells you he has negotiated bail for such and such an amount. You arrange for a wire transfer of money from your friends and family in your home country to post bail and pay his fee.

But you still can't leave the country, nor check in to any hotel without your passport. The fixer then arranges for you to stay in a no-questions-asked love motel, which charges you an above-market price.

Finally, your passport re-appears, and you are told the police have found no evidence and have dropped charges. Yet, your bail money is not returned to you, though at least you are free to fly home. By then, you're easily S$20,000 poorer."

From, thanks to member GungaDin:

http://www.yawningbread.org/arch_2009/yax-1051.htm

LaoPo

[stumonster]

although this video is very vague whilst the couple claims that it is not them on the video.

and Andrew Drummond says he has seen some more video and believes it is the couple in both ?

"What generally happens is this.

When an outbound traveller buys anything from a shop in the airport -- and it could well be a small-value purchase, not necessarily an expensive one -- one of three things can happen:

a: the cashier either drops an extra item into your shopping bag without you noticing;

b: the cashier gives you that extra item saying it's a free gift; or

c: if you're buying more than one item, the cashier charges you for one less than you're buying.

A few metres out of the shop, a security guard stops you, saying you have been fingered as a shoplifter. Your shopping bag is searched and sure enough, you have one unpaid item in it.

You are taken to a police station and miss your flight. Your passport is taken away from you, and you are thrown into a lock-up. At this point, you're totally desperate. Out of the blue, a fixer appears. He tells you that he knows how to handle the police. For a fee. The first step is to post bail, because you really don't want to stay in a police lock-up for days on end. He comes back and tells you he has negotiated bail for such and such an amount. You arrange for a wire transfer of money from your friends and family in your home country to post bail and pay his fee.

But you still can't leave the country, nor check in to any hotel without your passport. The fixer then arranges for you to stay in a no-questions-asked love motel, which charges you an above-market price.

Finally, your passport re-appears, and you are told the police have found no evidence and have dropped charges. Yet, your bail money is not returned to you, though at least you are free to fly home. By then, you're easily S$20,000 poorer."

and this - is there any evidence that it actually happens ?? or is it just a story to scare the easily led ?

people seem to have the idea that if you have enough money for an international flight you don't thieve

[Livinginexile]

Whatever the truth is one thing is for sure.

I will never risk buying duty free again.

[LaoPo]

although this video is very vague whilst the couple claims that it is not them on the video.

and Andrew Drummond says he has seen some more video and believes it is the couple in both ?

"What generally happens is this.

When an outbound traveller buys anything from a shop in the airport -- and it could well be a small-value purchase, not necessarily an expensive one -- one of three things can happen:

a: the cashier either drops an extra item into your shopping bag without you noticing;

b: the cashier gives you that extra item saying it's a free gift; or

c: if you're buying more than one item, the cashier charges you for one less than you're buying.

A few metres out of the shop, a security guard stops you, saying you have been fingered as a shoplifter. Your shopping bag is searched and sure enough, you have one unpaid item in it.

You are taken to a police station and miss your flight. Your passport is taken away from you, and you are thrown into a lock-up. At this point, you're totally desperate. Out of the blue, a fixer appears. He tells you that he knows how to handle the police. For a fee. The first step is to post bail, because you really don't want to stay in a police lock-up for days on end. He comes back and tells you he has negotiated bail for such and such an amount. You arrange for a wire transfer of money from your friends and family in your home country to post bail and pay his fee.

But you still can't leave the country, nor check in to any hotel without your passport. The fixer then arranges for you to stay in a no-questions-asked love motel, which charges you an above-market price.

Finally, your passport re-appears, and you are told the police have found no evidence and have dropped charges. Yet, your bail money is not returned to you, though at least you are free to fly home. By then, you're easily S$20,000 poorer."

and this - is there any evidence that it actually happens ?? or is it just a story to scare the easily led ?

people seem to have the idea that if you have enough money for an international flight you don't thieve

1. I don't know if Andrew Drummond said that he believes it IS the couple in the videos (more than one); do you have a link where he says/wrote that ?

2. The evidence that these scams actually happen (if one could call it "evidence") is as strong or weak as the "evidence" KP provided.

In the case of the Irish Lady: she bought 2 items, hands them to the cash register staff and the rest is according to scam #3 in the list above.

3. Like yourself, I don't know if it is a story or not but it seems to have happened too many times now: The English couple, the Irish Lady, a Danish woman; all made-up stories and all the same ?

How on earth did the Irish Lady, Dr. Norris escape from Thailand (with her husband and one-year old son who came to BKK to help her) without her original passport ?

The Irish Embassy helped her and good on them; every Embassy should help their citizens if they come for help and explain the horrible situation they ended up in on the airport.

The Irish Lady wasn't a normal tourist, she is a scientist and was in BKK on invitation of Kasetsart University for the ‘10th International Symposium on Genetics and Aquaculture.”.

Of course that doesn't imply that she did not steal but it is very unlikely. It is more likely she was scammed.

I said it before: thieves should be punished accordingly but to extort them is more of a crime that the theft itself..IF it was theft

LaoPo

Edited July 11, 2009 by LaoPo