Not Necessary To Close The Borders, Yet

[atyclb]

Has anyone actually read the rationale Chula doctors are using? Their reasoning would be most interesting to read.

I doubt they are xenophobic since the great majority has traveled a lot and/or studied abroad and are licensed in G8 countries including USA, England, etc.

How can they be "elite" if after all they don't even hang out at beer bars or go go's???

Re; exports being effected..... unless a bag of rice and/or inanimate objects can transmit the virus why would exports be effected?

Since there have been reported cases resistant to the antiviral drugs it seems the virus IS changing already.

As far as saying conventional flu kills more people each year; true, right now(a rationalization). But, the big BUT is that swine flu is adding to the numbers morbidity/mortality and absolutely has the potential to do far greater damage.

One could also make the argument that alcohol kills far more people and thus trivialize a viral pandemic.

[Thai at Heart]

Has anyone actually read the rationale Chula doctors are using? Their reasoning would be most interesting to read.

I doubt they are xenophobic since the great majority has traveled a lot and/or studied abroad and are licensed in G8 countries including USA, England, etc.

How can they be "elite" if after all they don't even hang out at beer bars or go go's???

Re; exports being effected..... unless a bag of rice and/or inanimate objects can transmit the virus why would exports be effected?

Since there have been reported cases resistant to the antiviral drugs it seems the virus IS changing already.

As far as saying conventional flu kills more people each year; true, right now(a rationalization). But, the big BUT is that swine flu is adding to the numbers morbidity/mortality and absolutely has the potential to do far greater damage.

One could also make the argument that alcohol kills far more people and thus trivialize a viral pandemic.

It would indeed be very nice to see their entire statement, although after searching for it, I can't find it. Surmising that closing the borders would in some way stop this flu spreading shows that despite being "doctors", some people still lack common sense even after a lifetime of education.

If they closed the borders under this situation, it would probably represent "force majeur" so much in the same way as the Survanabhumi airport closure represented force majeur, all the tourists either here or awaiting travel with reservations would lose their tickets, reservations and a boat load of money. Boom! Another whack in the guts for the tourism business.

Why would exports be effected?

How does a container vessel come into a country where the crew can't enter? Who is going to drive the overland stuff out of the country? Don't presume that if Thailand closes it's borders that the normal practice would be for neighbouring countries isn't to reciprocate. How could you logically allow a Thai driver to move stuff from a country into another when there is a level 6 block on the border for a pandemic? Nothing in and nothing out would be the result.

[hardy1943]

another example of the typical Thai way of thinking. Just like prohibiting the sale of alcohol before 11:30 and between 14:00 and 17:00! Or closing petrol stations after 22:00...

I agree but this move will be second to none, even closing the airport last year, not the brightest move.

I know of several people that lost their job in the USA because the could not return to work on time

and swore to never ever come here again. You are right Thai Government thinking however

know many Thai in my immediate family that agree that all those laws are a joke.

[joker]

Wow. I am back in the States right now and there is NO MENTION of the Swine Flu. Seems that Americans got bored with it, and now have moved on to the new thing...

The sudden and tragic death of a dancing pedophile.

Thailand only cares about the way they look, not if it is right or wrong. They need to give the appearance that they are doing something, regardless if it has results.

It is truly shocking to be outside of LOS.

todd

True, Thailand, these days, only cares about how it looks, not if it's right or wrong. It's so sad!

Don't blame this Government or the doctors, it's the THAIS themselves that need to wake up

and stop looking in the mirror and watching silly soaps. Tourism has suffered for the last 5 years

here and it's not getting better. EDUCATE the people then they might understand more about

real life and the world around them. 'Close the borders' mentality is the same as the recent

parents who took their children away from a school because a kid had HIV. IGNORANCE rules!

[webfact]

I know some Thais who are afraid to visit a doctor because of fear they might get quarantined in a Hospital for a few days.

Dear government and physicians!

Please educate the public!!

Show information at prime time on TV instead of commercials!

At 9:00 pm latest (almost) every Thai seems to be in front of a TV waiting for another soap opera cra_p to run...

So, you got the audience!

[sriracha john]

another example of the typical Thai way of thinking. Just like prohibiting the sale of alcohol before 11:30 and between 14:00 and 17:00! Or closing petrol stations after 22:00...

I agree but this move will be second to none, even closing the airport last year, not the brightest move.

I know of several people that lost their job in the USA because the could not return to work on time

and swore to never ever come here again. You are right Thai Government thinking however

know many Thai in my immediate family that agree that all those laws are a joke.

Chula doctors closed down the airport last year?

Chula doctors make the laws?

[PatinBKk]

just another way to charge for an overstay, the amount of people I know got slagged for 3-5k when the airport was shut......

[markinoc]

I spent 5 hours at Siriraj Hospital last Sunday. It seemed that everybody there had the flu except me. I didn't wear a mask, didn't hide, and didn't get sick. The flu goes around every year. What bothers me is the stupid Bangkok Post. Announcing another swine flu death, when the people they are talking about died of cancer during brain surgery, or kidney failure from years of drinking and partying. The weak die from the flu every year, it isn't because of it being the swine flu. Pandemic doesn't mean epidemic. Pandemic hype to epidemic proportions. paw leaow!

Ha ha, very funny. I've made it out of Thailand to Hawaii. I wish I could get that dam_n flu and put me out of my misery!!!!!!! Just kidding. Thailand is silly about things like the flu. They think that Thais only get aids from foreigners, not from Thais that don't use condoms. Funny but ridiculous!

[gorshar]

I entered Thailand at Aranyaprathet the other day. They have a health screening station - a quick check of your temperature and you're on your way. Hardly took a second per person.

So here's the kicker....

They were only checking foreigners.

Thais could happily pronounce "Khun Thai" as they pointed to themselves in the chest and were waved on with a smile from the health screeners.

[NanaFoods]

swine flu ... absolutely has the potential to do far greater damage.

And you are certain of this because..... ??

Are you, by chance, a virologist?

One could also make the argument that alcohol kills far more people and thus trivialize a viral pandemic.

No, one couldn't.

That is a false comparison.

[Mai Krap]

Nobody is going to be laughing about the flu after it increases in numbers substantially. While it may be no worse than other flu in some ways, it is way more serious for borderline alcoholics and smokers, to those who have questionable health. The Expat Community could really be effected by a large number of deaths compared to the Thais just because of lifestyle choices and poor general health.

[walterego]

Just got to get my 2 satangs worth in to, everyone else is.

I myself are very suspicious about the 'moo flu' Research this century has given us great skills in modifying flu like virus in teh name of 'medicine', 'health' and science. There are those that would argue that HIV is one such experiment (i am not one) and there is some limited evidence to suport them. Indeed the world is overpopulated and a solution needs to be found.

This Virus can and will most likely mutate.. as to how it became existent? from a tiny epicentre? begs question also.

Before any atomic weapon is launched it is normal for a test or several to occur ie:muroa atoll or the koreans of not to far back. Even tests in my own country Australia efecting its own people (Maralinga 1956) Governments have no qualms about this type of thing they only care if they get caught.

What we MAY be seeing here is the testing of a most lethal weapon of mass destruction. As this virus is not a big killer 'in its present state' what is the purpose of governments monitoring its spread so precisely? Are they (or some of them) testing how they will deal with a 'biological weapon'. or perhaps they are dealing with the efectiveness of such a weapon.

I hope for an infection at this point so I may produce some resistance to future strains.

Then again its probably just a flu.

(elvis is still alive on an island with Adolf Hitler and Marilyn Munroe creating a master race Michael just joined them.)

[midas]

swine flu ... absolutely has the potential to do far greater damage.

And you are certain of this because..... ??

Are you, by chance, a virologist?

One could also make the argument that alcohol kills far more people and thus trivialize a viral pandemic.

No, one couldn't.

That is a false comparison.

i was watching a scientist being interviewed on Aljazeera and she was saying that anything is possible......

firstly flu viruses tend to get stronger as time passes and also they are worried about that H1N1 could

somehow join with the Avian flu and mutate into something completely new .............

[Jingthing]

I entered Thailand at Aranyaprathet the other day. They have a health screening station - a quick check of your temperature and you're on your way. Hardly took a second per person.

So here's the kicker....

They were only checking foreigners.

Thais could happily pronounce "Khun Thai" as they pointed to themselves in the chest and were waved on with a smile from the health screeners.

That says it all. Its political theater, not a health prevention measure.

[tracer]

Neither the USA or Mexico closed their borders.

I think that it would have a draconian effect on tourism and those who hold jobs associated with tourism,there would be no "High Season" and dramatically reduce bookings that are being made for 2010

If normal tourists from Europe want to come here they have to book in the next 2 or 3 months.

With the planned Asian meeting in Phuket I would be very surprised if some idiot doesnt manage to screw things up!

[CrossBones]

Its no more dangerous than normal flu...

One day we will have a seriously dangerous virus outbreak and everyone will ignore it.. just like bird flu/ sars etc - public hysteria fueled by greedy drugs companies and the media.

Boy who cried wolf etc.

[CrossBones]

Is he saying all tourists in side Thailand will be not able to leave

What are they trying to do

Not only kill the tourist industry

But wipe ourt all memories it ever existed

Probably prevent us from leaving and then charge us 500 Baht a day overstay! LOL

[CrossBones]

H1N1 seem to be a very nasty old virus, HAD to make a visit to hospital yesterday, many hospital staffer are wearing the mask.

Masks dont stop you catching the flu since the flu is usually caught through the eye balls - someone coughs or sneezes and the virus enters your body through the thin membrane of your eyes.

Masks are only good for fear-mongering

[tracer]

If I'm being lazy and there's another thread dedicated then apols but my wife is pregnant - anyone have any idea of how dangerous this flu is for women in their first / second trimester? I've heard it's serious and would tamiflu or relenza help?

Tamiflu?

This "cure" is worse than the disease.

Read how many children have died after taking tamaflu.

http://drbenkim.com/blog/2005/11/fda-takin...ok-at-anti.html

Lord knows what this stuff will do to a fetus.

As far as I know there is no cure for ANY virus caused infection...

Note, I am not a doctor but I studied chemistry years ago.

All they can do is reduce the side effects and as far as I know it makes absolutely no difference where you live.

[tracer]

I entered Thailand at Aranyaprathet the other day. They have a health screening station - a quick check of your temperature and you're on your way. Hardly took a second per person.

So here's the kicker....

They were only checking foreigners.

Thais could happily pronounce "Khun Thai" as they pointed to themselves in the chest and were waved on with a smile from the health screeners.

That says it all. Its political theater, not a health prevention measure.

Thats easy to defeat: take a Bayer Aspirin an hour before arival and that instrument wont work very well. Unless you obviously have a real serious desease and then you should not be traveling!

Now obviously it can work both ways: get a proper travel insurance and if you get put in hospital claime back...

[sriracha john]

the flu is usually caught through the eye balls

Do you have a source for this assertion?

[CrossBones]

the flu is usually caught through the eye balls

Do you have a source for this assertion?

Umm well I am a trained First Aider and if you do a quick Google search on how influenza is spread you can find pages like this

http://www.med.govt.nz/templates/Multipage...aspx#P709_69260

[churchill]

the flu is usually caught through the eye balls

Do you have a source for this assertion?

If you look hard enough .

[walterego]

Just got to get my 2 satangs worth in to, everyone else is.

I myself are very suspicious about the 'moo flu' Research this century has given us great skills in modifying flu like virus in teh name of 'medicine', 'health' and science. There are those that would argue that HIV is one such experiment (i am not one) and there is some limited evidence to suport them. Indeed the world is overpopulated and a solution needs to be found.

This Virus can and will most likely mutate.. as to how it became existent? from a tiny epicentre? begs question also.

Before any atomic weapon is launched it is normal for a test or several to occur ie:muroa atoll or the koreans of not to far back. Even tests in my own country Australia efecting its own people (Maralinga 1956) Governments have no qualms about this type of thing they only care if they get caught.

What we MAY be seeing here is the testing of a most lethal weapon of mass destruction. As this virus is not a big killer 'in its present state' what is the purpose of governments monitoring its spread so precisely? Are they (or some of them) testing how they will deal with a 'biological weapon'. or perhaps they are dealing with the efectiveness of such a weapon.

I hope for an infection at this point so I may produce some resistance to future strains.

Then again its probably just a flu.

(elvis is still alive on an island with Adolf Hitler and Marilyn Munroe creating a master race Michael just joined them.)

A quick google search of biological weapons shows that prior to it clossing in 1969 (nixon closed it....) that research had gone into using/mutating/manipulating bird flu (fowl plague) African swine fever, bovine etc...

^{http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States..._note-whitby-10} "A U.S. facility at Fort Terry primarily focused on anti-animal biological agents. The first agent that was a candidate for development was foot and mouth disease (FMD).^[14] Besides FMD, five other top secret BW projects were commissioned on Plum Island.^[31] The other four programs researched included RVF, rinderpest, African swine fever, plus eleven miscellaneous exotic animal diseases.^[31][14] The eleven miscellaneous pathogens were: Blue tongue virus, bovine influenza, bovine virus diarrhea (BVD), fowl plague, goat pneumonitis, mycobacteria, "N" virus, Newcastle disease, sheep pox, Teschers disease, and vesicular stomatitis.^[14]

^{http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States...note-wheelis-13}

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States...weapons_program

nah its just a flu.

[sriracha john]

the flu is usually caught through the eye balls

Do you have a source for this assertion?

Umm well I am a trained First Aider and if you do a quick Google search on how influenza is spread you can find pages like this

http://www.med.govt.nz/templates/Multipage...aspx#P709_69260

Thanks for the link. Perhaps you should read it. It says the opposite of what you assert:

"The virus may enter through the eyes, or more commonly through the nose or mouth"

[walterego]

Just got to get my 2 satangs worth in to, everyone else is.

I myself are very suspicious about the 'moo flu' Research this century has given us great skills in modifying flu like virus in teh name of 'medicine', 'health' and science. There are those that would argue that HIV is one such experiment (i am not one) and there is some limited evidence to suport them. Indeed the world is overpopulated and a solution needs to be found.

This Virus can and will most likely mutate.. as to how it became existent? from a tiny epicentre? begs question also.

Before any atomic weapon is launched it is normal for a test or several to occur ie:muroa atoll or the koreans of not to far back. Even tests in my own country Australia efecting its own people (Maralinga 1956) Governments have no qualms about this type of thing they only care if they get caught.

What we MAY be seeing here is the testing of a most lethal weapon of mass destruction. As this virus is not a big killer 'in its present state' what is the purpose of governments monitoring its spread so precisely? Are they (or some of them) testing how they will deal with a 'biological weapon'. or perhaps they are dealing with the efectiveness of such a weapon.

I hope for an infection at this point so I may produce some resistance to future strains.

Then again its probably just a flu.

(elvis is still alive on an island with Adolf Hitler and Marilyn Munroe creating a master race Michael just joined them.)

A quick google search of biological weapons shows that prior to it clossing in 1969 (nixon closed it....) that research had gone into using/mutating/manipulating bird flu (fowl plague) African swine fever, bovine etc...

^{http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States..._note-whitby-10} "A U.S. facility at Fort Terry primarily focused on anti-animal biological agents. The first agent that was a candidate for development was foot and mouth disease (FMD).^[14] Besides FMD, five other top secret BW projects were commissioned on Plum Island.^[31] The other four programs researched included RVF, rinderpest, African swine fever, plus eleven miscellaneous exotic animal diseases.^[31][14] The eleven miscellaneous pathogens were: Blue tongue virus, bovine influenza, bovine virus diarrhea (BVD), fowl plague, goat pneumonitis, mycobacteria, "N" virus, Newcastle disease, sheep pox, Teschers disease, and vesicular stomatitis.^[14]

^{http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States...note-wheelis-13}

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States...weapons_program

nah its just a flu.

[NanaFoods]

This from another physician (the figures are little bit dated, but the letter still makes good points):

Media pigs misinforming public about so-called "epidemic"

Dear Friend,

Those filthy swine... The swine flu "epidemic" is only a few days old, and Big Pharma is already plotting to make a fortune.

European drug maker Roche announced it was scaling up production of Tamiflu, giving a boost to its stock price and sending millions into the Roche coffers. GlaxoSmithKline, which makes the anti-flu drug Relenza, is also seeing its stock price climb, as investors hope this swine flu is the biggest thing since the bubonic plague.

There's only one problem here – it's not going to happen. You read the Daily Dose because I always give you the straight scoop, and because I'm not afraid to tell you when the mainstream has it wrong.

And they have it wrong on swine flu. It won't be an epidemic – it'll barely even be a ripple. I've run medical clinics in Africa – I know what an epidemic looks like.

And this isn't it.

The media is blowing swine flu out of proportion so it can feed its 24-hour news cycle – the same media, mind you, that had us convinced that avian flu was going to destroy the planet a few years ago.

But here are the facts about swine flu – it has affected so few people in America that it's hardly worth discussing. There are 64 confirmed cases in America as I'm writing this – not 6,000 or even 600. There are 64.

Of course, the media is fixated on the 100 or so people who have died in Mexico from the swine flu. But let me clue you into something that no one seems to be discussing – health care in Mexico is ABSOLUTELY TERRIBLE. I know – I've been there more times than I can count.

Disease spreads rapidly through Mexico because large areas of the country lack clean water and basic sanitation. Seeing a doctor – let alone a qualified doctor – is a luxury unavailable to most of the population. Of course the flu is killing people in Mexico – so are a lot of other diseases that are successfully treated in America. People in Mexico still die from diarrhea, for Pete's sake!

Yes, they have apparently had some cases of bad swine flu in Mexico. They've had lots of dengue fever and chagas, too, but you don't need to stay up at night worrying about it. Beating the swine flu isn't any different from beating the regular flu. Wash your hands. Avoid large crowds if you can. Get plenty of rest and fluids if you start getting sick.

And don't be afraid to eat pork or any other meat, for that matter, as it's not the pigs who are getting sick. Of course, I'm not recommending you eat Mexican pork – or any food produced in Mexico, for that matter. Hopefully the tainted peppers outbreak of 2008 taught us that. But don't change your diet because of some so-called swine flu epidemic.

It's no epidemic. It's no public health catastrophe. It's good theatre – and nothing more.

WC Douglas, MD

Seems he agrees with Dr. Ron Paul.

Edited July 9, 2009 by ChefHeat

[G54]

WHO warns swine flu 'unstoppable'

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8130196.stm

Don't these people read the news some time ?

In the mean time, in the UK they organize "flu parties" :

Reports have emerged of people intentionally mixing with friends who have flu. Their reasoning is that it is best to be infected before the winter when the virus could become more deadly.

"I don't think it is a good idea" says Dr Jarvis, chairman of the British Medical Association's public health committee.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/8125191.stm

Everyone used to have Measles and Mumps parties etc back in the 50 & 60's as I recall. Not such a bad idea TBH to do it for Swine Flu.

[cyborg22]

This from another physician (the figures are little bit dated, but the letter still makes good points):

Media pigs misinforming public about so-called "epidemic"

Dear Friend,

Those filthy swine... The swine flu "epidemic" is only a few days old, and Big Pharma is already plotting to make a fortune.

European drug maker Roche announced it was scaling up production of Tamiflu, giving a boost to its stock price and sending millions into the Roche coffers. GlaxoSmithKline, which makes the anti-flu drug Relenza, is also seeing its stock price climb, as investors hope this swine flu is the biggest thing since the bubonic plague.

There's only one problem here – it's not going to happen. You read the Daily Dose because I always give you the straight scoop, and because I'm not afraid to tell you when the mainstream has it wrong.

And they have it wrong on swine flu. It won't be an epidemic – it'll barely even be a ripple. I've run medical clinics in Africa – I know what an epidemic looks like.

And this isn't it.

The media is blowing swine flu out of proportion so it can feed its 24-hour news cycle – the same media, mind you, that had us convinced that avian flu was going to destroy the planet a few years ago.

But here are the facts about swine flu – it has affected so few people in America that it's hardly worth discussing. There are 64 confirmed cases in America as I'm writing this – not 6,000 or even 600. There are 64.

Of course, the media is fixated on the 100 or so people who have died in Mexico from the swine flu. But let me clue you into something that no one seems to be discussing – health care in Mexico is ABSOLUTELY TERRIBLE. I know – I've been there more times than I can count.

Disease spreads rapidly through Mexico because large areas of the country lack clean water and basic sanitation. Seeing a doctor – let alone a qualified doctor – is a luxury unavailable to most of the population. Of course the flu is killing people in Mexico – so are a lot of other diseases that are successfully treated in America. People in Mexico still die from diarrhea, for Pete's sake!

Yes, they have apparently had some cases of bad swine flu in Mexico. They've had lots of dengue fever and chagas, too, but you don't need to stay up at night worrying about it. Beating the swine flu isn't any different from beating the regular flu. Wash your hands. Avoid large crowds if you can. Get plenty of rest and fluids if you start getting sick.

And don't be afraid to eat pork or any other meat, for that matter, as it's not the pigs who are getting sick. Of course, I'm not recommending you eat Mexican pork – or any food produced in Mexico, for that matter. Hopefully the tainted peppers outbreak of 2008 taught us that. But don't change your diet because of some so-called swine flu epidemic.

It's no epidemic. It's no public health catastrophe. It's good theatre – and nothing more.

WC Douglas, MD

Seems he agrees with Dr. Ron Paul.

Having read many things reported by this man. I am inclined to just laugh at most of them. He seems to delight in telling people he is right and everyone else is wrong. How can one man be so right and so many be so wrong? I wonder could MD actually stand for something else other than doctor of medicine?.

[cyborg22]

just another way to charge for an overstay, the amount of people I know got slagged for 3-5k when the airport was shut......

Overstay charges were waived due to the blockade of the airport.