Comprehansion

[tgeezer]

This is from a schoolbook chapter on classes of words,, in this case conjuction ก็

เชื่อมประโยคความซ้อน Introduction to type of conjunction

ถึงเม่ยรักก็อย่าไว้วางใจใคร That is the example, now the explanation:

ประโยคหลัก คือ อย่าไว้ใจใคร ประโยคขยาย คือ เมียรัก

That is all there is and it is sufficient to understand the meaning I presume.

I am reading the explanation as: Q. whom should you not trust, A. loving wife

The problem is: this is not the sentiment I would expect to be taught to children. I thought of 'a loving wife shouldn't trust anyone', 'when you have a loving wife don't trust anyone'. Can anyone come up with a better solution to the puzzle?

Edited July 10, 2009 by tgeezer

[tgeezer]

I have just had another thought, On becoming a loving wife, you don't trust anybody.

Throw me a bone here someone, is it a culteral thing? I know the meaning of รัก is not covered very well in English perhaps this helps here and makes the sentiment more acceptable for children.

[aanon]

It didn't immediately make sense to me but I'd say that the meaning is: Even if your wife loves you, don't trust anyone. Or, to put it another way: Even if you're sure that your wife loves you, you still shouldn't trust other men.

So, the main point of the sentence is: Don't trust anyone.

The additional information is: Even if your wife loves you, ....

Yes, a strange sentiment to appear in a school book. You've definitely copied it correctly, right?

aanon

"when you're in love with a beautiful woman, you watch your friends"

[tgeezer]

Yes, a strange sentiment to appear in a school book. You've definitely copied it correctly, right?

aanon

"when you're in love with a beautiful woman, you watch your friends"

I have copied it correctly, without a Thai insight we will have to go with what we have. Here is the other example of เชื่อมประโยคความซ้อน :

กว่าตำรวจจะมาถึงผู้ร้ายก็หนีไปไกลแล้ว

ประโยคหลัก คือ ตำรวจมาถึง ประโยครอง คือ ผู้ร้ายหนีไปไกล

Reading รอง as 'subordinate.' there is not a problem there I think.

I thought that perhaps someone with grammar in English might discover it.

Actually I am learning by the 'monkey see, monkey do' system so maybe should n't get too involved, I just don't get this and think it is the difference in thought process between us and Thai.

[yoot]

ถึงเมียรีก ก็อย่าไว้วางใจใคร This sentence sounds a bit strange, but if I have to translate it, it should be "Don't trust anyone, even your beloved wife."

[tgeezer]

ถึงเมียรีก ก็อย่าไว้วางใจใคร This sentence sounds a bit strange, but if I have to translate it, it should be "Don't trust anyone, even your beloved wife."

Much obliged Yoot, I was hoping you would help me 'drop the bone' I don't feel so stupid now.

'

[aanon]

ถึงเมียรีก ก็อย่าไว้วางใจใคร This sentence sounds a bit strange, but if I have to translate it, it should be "Don't trust anyone, even your beloved wife."

Much obliged Yoot, I was hoping you would help me 'drop the bone' I don't feel so stupid now.

'

So you're saying ถึง should be read as "ถึงแม้กระทั่ง", rather than ถึงแม้ว่า, Yoot? Or something else?

[yoot]

ถึงเมียรีก ก็อย่าไว้วางใจใคร This sentence sounds a bit strange, but if I have to translate it, it should be "Don't trust anyone, even your beloved wife."

Much obliged Yoot, I was hoping you would help me 'drop the bone' I don't feel so stupid now.

'

So you're saying ถึง should be read as "ถึงแม้กระทั่ง", rather than ถึงแม้ว่า, Yoot? Or something else?

No, I was saying ถึง should be read as "ถึงจะเป็นเมียรัก".

It's very common for spoken langauge to shorten it this way. Ex. ถึงเพื่อนก็เถอะ ตัวดีนักแหละ ชอบก่อปัญหาให้เรา (They often cause us troubles, even a friend. Well, especially a friend.)

[aanon]

Oh, I see. Thanks Yoot. I kept thinking of รัก as a verb, instead of "beloved" [child, wife, friend, etc.].

[tgeezer]

Oh, I see. Thanks Yoot. I kept thinking of รัก as a verb, instead of "beloved" [child, wife, friend, etc.].

I think that this is worth discussion : เมียรัก is a sentence with the verb รัก and no object because the requirement of a verb is : คำที่แสดงอาการ สถาพ หรือ การกระทำของคำนาม One of the simplest examples of a sentence with an intransitive verb is นกบิน (การกระทำ). Another example เด็กฉลาด(สภาพ) a verb in Thai but mostly translated as 'clever', an adjective in English. What do you think?

[thaigold]

I just ran this one by my wife. She says it means don't trust anyone outside of the immediate family. That is, blood is thicker than water.

[agent69]

ถึงเมียรีก ก็อย่าไว้วางใจใคร This sentence sounds a bit strange, but if I have to translate it, it should be "Don't trust anyone, even your beloved wife."

you've got the thumb up from me.

The last sentence said that the main sentence is "อย่าไว้วางใจใคร". And the "ถึงเมียรีก" is a support sentence.

My version of translation would be "Do not trust anyone, even your wife who loves you".

Edited July 13, 2009 by agent69

[yoot]

I'd like to make it clears for the term "เมียรัก". รัก can be both verb and adjective. In this case, it's used as an adjective. These are words which have same construction.

เมียรัก - the wife who you love.

คนรัก - the one who you love.

เพื่อนรัก - the friend who you love (close friend).

น้องรัก - the brother/sister who you love.

ของรัก - thing that you love.

The same as the word "โปรด" which can be used as a verb or an adjective.

ฉันโปรดอาหารจานนี้เป็นพิเศษ

- นี้เป็นอาหารจานโปรดของฉัน

สีฟ้าเป็นสีที่ฉันโปรดปรานมากที่สุด

- สีโปรดของฉันคือสีฟ้า

[agent69]

well, in this case 'รัก' is a verb.

the word 'ถึง' means although. so the whole sentence means 'although your wife loves you, don't trust any one".

[tgeezer]

I'd like to make it clears for the term "เมียรัก". รัก can be both verb and adjective. In this case, it's used as an adjective. These are words which have same construction.

เมียรัก - the wife who you love.

คนรัก - the one who you love.

เพื่อนรัก - the friend who you love (close friend).

น้องรัก - the brother/sister who you love.

ของรัก - thing that you love.

The same as the word "โปรด" which can be used as a verb or an adjective.

ฉันโปรดอาหารจานนี้เป็นพิเศษ

- นี้เป็นอาหารจานโปรดของฉัน

สีฟ้าเป็นสีที่ฉันโปรดปรานมากที่สุด

- สีโปรดของฉันคือสีฟ้า

[tgeezer]

well, in this case 'รัก' is a verb.

the word 'ถึง' means although. so the whole sentence means 'although your wife loves you, don't trust any one".

Its not worth much but I think that I agree with yoot, รัก คือ คำกริยาวิเศษณ์ which I am translating as an adverb or intransitive verb, if it were a simple verb it would have an object, dogs, food etc., lacking that, it describes the wife as 'loving' ถึง is perhaps the key but it is a verb, does it establish the fact of a 'loving' 'loveable' wife? Even if we come to a conclusion on this I still don't think it is moot and maybe there is nothing more to be gained.

All the contributions are gratefully received, I have learnt something and hope others may have, thanks.

[tgeezer]

Its not worth much but I think that I agree with yoot, รัก คือ คำกริยาวิเศษณ์ which I am translating as an adverb.

I am glad that noone took any notice of this it is quite wrong, I wanted to call it only an intransitive verb.

In order to make Thai and English compatable grammatically I get into an awful mess, but I don't have enough Thai to do anything else. I am not the only one though. Consider the definition of a verb: กริยา น. คำที่แสดงอาการของนามหรือสรรพนาม then อาการ น. ความเป็นอยู่, ความเป็นไป,สภาพ,กิริยาท่าทาง and so it goes on, nothing about 'doing' ฉลาด looks like a verb to me in Thai but an adjective in English. Could a verb not be การกระทำของคำนามในประโยค as well. ? after all we call it a 'doing word' in English, when we say clever we don't see 'doing' . I will leave it there, I am all at sea.

[agent69]

I don't trust anyone anyway ........ even my wife.

hahaha

[Harcourt]

It didn't immediately make sense to me but I'd say that the meaning is: Even if your wife loves you, don't trust anyone. Or, to put it another way: Even if you're sure that your wife loves you, you still shouldn't trust other men.

So, the main point of the sentence is: Don't trust anyone.

The additional information is: Even if your wife loves you, ....

Yes, a strange sentiment to appear in a school book. You've definitely copied it correctly, right?

aanon

"when you're in love with a beautiful woman, you watch your friends"

I'm just a beginner but I lurk here in "Language" because I get insight and encouragement.

I asked my partner her thoughts, and she pretty much said the same as aanon: Firstly, the sentence seems without context and is probably a snippet from a poem or prose, and thus is a little nonsensical just by itself, but literally is "trust nobody even if you have a loving wife (and thus not her either)"

[tgeezer]

It didn't immediately make sense to me but I'd say that the meaning is: Even if your wife loves you, don't trust anyone. Or, to put it another way: Even if you're sure that your wife loves you, you still shouldn't trust other men.

So, the main point of the sentence is: Don't trust anyone.

The additional information is: Even if your wife loves you, ....

Yes, a strange sentiment to appear in a school book. You've definitely copied it correctly, right?

aanon

"when you're in love with a beautiful woman, you watch your friends"

I'm just a beginner but I lurk here in "Language" because I get insight and encouragement.

I asked my partner her thoughts, and she pretty much said the same as aanon: Firstly, the sentence seems without context and is probably a snippet from a poem or prose, and thus is a little nonsensical just by itself, but literally is "trust nobody even if you have a loving wife (and thus not her either)"

This at least makes my question valid because the context is; an example of a complete sentence in a children's book, if this is a sentiment which is good for first year secondary school kids to embrace, then does it show a gulf between our cultures?

[Harcourt]

It didn't immediately make sense to me but I'd say that the meaning is: Even if your wife loves you, don't trust anyone. Or, to put it another way: Even if you're sure that your wife loves you, you still shouldn't trust other men.

So, the main point of the sentence is: Don't trust anyone.

The additional information is: Even if your wife loves you, ....

Yes, a strange sentiment to appear in a school book. You've definitely copied it correctly, right?

aanon

"when you're in love with a beautiful woman, you watch your friends"

I'm just a beginner but I lurk here in "Language" because I get insight and encouragement.

I asked my partner her thoughts, and she pretty much said the same as aanon: Firstly, the sentence seems without context and is probably a snippet from a poem or prose, and thus is a little nonsensical just by itself, but literally is "trust nobody even if you have a loving wife (and thus not her either)"

This at least makes my question valid because the context is; an example of a complete sentence in a children's book, if this is a sentiment which is good for first year secondary school kids to embrace, then does it show a gulf between our cultures?

GF says it's probably from a poem, thus it may be a complete sentence, technically, but it is out of context for any reasonable meaning (without the rest of the poem). Perhaps the quote is well known.

Quotes from Shakespeare could sound quite odd if only one sentence was quoted and you didn't realise from whence the quote came. And I mean odd in meaning, and odd in subject matter, as the case seems to be here.