Swede Wanted For Pattaya Murder

[Heng]

[

Best to make like a rabbit.

I still hope he gets away; because there's no justice even if he gets caught.

IA

Only a bad man would want a murderer to get away. Get away to kill again? Aren't you at least curious to see if he commited murder before?

Your viewpoint is unconscionable. You should be banned from this forum.

IssanAlex has a love/hate relationship (loves his family, would love to live here carefree, BUT hates that he has to work in Korea to make that happen... while many other expats and locals do not have to go to such means) with this place, you have to understand his background before passing judgement.

[Lars]

Latest update in swedish newspaper says that thai police now have 40 officers working the case. Phuket and Bangkok(Kao San rd in particular)have extra attention as well as border crossings and airports. A reward has been issued by merchants in Pattaya for anyone with info about the man in question.

Attention from the police seems high now.

[Pattaya_Fox]

I agree that it's at least second degree murder.

It sounds like manslaughter at best; and with a good lawyer he'd walk.

Even if convicted in Canada it's be 6 years ion jail and out in about 3. The average.

And for anyone who wants to pipe in with any nonsense aboiut how that's too short a time or whatever I'd just ask them to consider the crime rate in Thailand and Canada.

But he's in Thailand; no wonder he ran.

When the police are the biggest criminals of all there's no justice in any case...

Best to make like a rabbit.

I still hope he gets away; because there's no justice even if he gets caught.

IA

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If what we have heard from his interview and the other reports are true I fail to understand how you can think that this is manslaughter.

The victim has her head bashed in and apparently has wounds to her shoulder as well.

He is supposed to have said that he was under the influence of alcohol and drugs (no excuse for killing somebody). The victim went through a glass door and stabbed him in the foot with a shard of glass. He then proceeded to bang her head on the floor with such violence that it killed her.

He then goes out to purchase the items which are used to put her body in and then drags the body away before concealing it, and then does a runner.

So he killed her with such force that he must have expected that death could have occurred (we are talking about a female victim here not a burley farang). He then tries to cover up his crime.

This has to be Murder...and he should be punished in Thailand where the crime was committed...

[Lars]

Latest update:

The suspected killer turned himself in to the police in Bangkok earlier today.

He's now transported back to Pattaya escorted by a representative of the swedish police and is now in Pattaya jail.

[tuky]

Latest update:

The suspected killer turned himself in to the police in Bangkok earlier today.

He's now transported back to Pattaya escorted by a representative of the swedish police and is now in Pattaya jail.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Where did you get that Lars?

[Lars]

Here's the link(swedish only I'm afraid):

http://www.aftonbladet.se/vss/nyheter/stor...,610918,00.html

[Lars]

The article says that the man gave himself up to representatives of swedish police who contacted thai authorities and was the put in a police car and was transported back to Pattaya. He arrived at about 19.30 at Pattaya jail without saying much during the drive.

The swed. pol. rep. says that he was in a low mood,didn't talk much but has taken the desicion voluntarily,and that he wants to have an attorney before talking to thai police.

His earlier story still stands though.

Within two days he'll be in front of a court that will decide whether the evidence are strong enough to keep him in custody or not.

[britmaveric]

Lars - good news looks as if all this publicity paid off.

[Lars]

I agree with pattaya fox....

[tuky]

Thanks Lars, great updates...

[Heng]

If he confesses, he'll probably get a 50% discount (sentence halved). 50 years into 25 years. Of course, someone with a bad temper in a Thai jail probably wouldn't last 5 years.

[Lars]

Another link(a smaller swedish newspaper)

http://www.expressen.se/index.jsp?a=249097

[thaidancer]

Another link(a smaller swedish newspaper)

http://www.expressen.se/index.jsp?a=249097

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It really boggles my mind that a guy who had a good career that would probably allow him to stay in Thailand during the hockey off season, and probably would let him retire early just throws everything away? For what? To be stuck in a Thai jail for the rest of his life? Sometimes during your life you just have to stop and think, for a few minutes and evaluate "what am I doing or going to do and how is my life going right now?" Well I guess it's too late for him right now. One thing I don't understand is when you commit a crime in Thailand wouldn't your first instinct be "Holly sh-it I think I need to get out of this country?" Even if you believe that you are innocent there is absolutely no chance of you getting a decent trail.

Edited March 1, 2005 by thaidancer

[HumbleFlyer]

My hopes and prayers go out to this butcher that he prefered his girlies backsides as that will be his only option for a little bootie in the slamer until he gets the inject! He'll probably die of AIDS before they give him the Hot Shot....no mercy is he hacked up a good bar girl!

[sriracha john]

[

Best to make like a rabbit.

I still hope he gets away; because there's no justice even if he gets caught.

IA

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Only a bad man would want a murderer to get away. Get away to kill again? Aren't you at least curious to see if he commited murder before?

Your viewpoint is unconscionable. You should be banned from this forum.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

IssanAlex has a love/hate relationship (loves his family, would love to live here carefree, BUT hates that he has to work in Korea to make that happen... while many other expats and locals do not have to go to such means) with this place, you have to understand his background before passing judgement.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I would dispute that. Everyone has their own "cross to bear"... everyone has different stressors in life. We ALL have to make do with what life has dealt us and the decisions we have made in response to it. That's no excuse or reason to make the pathetic comments he has made.

[sriracha john]

The article says that the man gave himself up to representatives of swedish police who contacted thai authorities and was the put in a police car and was transported back to Pattaya. He arrived at about 19.30 at Pattaya jail without saying much during the drive.

The swed. pol. rep. says that he was in a low mood,didn't talk much but has taken the desicion voluntarily,and that he wants to have an attorney before talking to thai police.

His earlier story still stands though.

Within two days he'll be in front of a court that will decide whether the evidence are strong enough to keep him in custody or not.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thank you Lars for all your follow-ups. Terrific job and you have my sincere recommendation to become Thaivisa's resident expert on Swedish news...

Turning himself in was the best idea this man has had in the past week.

[Lars]

Thanks John

I agree about the idea to turn himself in(seems like the only good idea he's had for a very long time though).

[IsaanAlex]

Banned from the forum?

To this; knock yourself out.

If you start to ban the people with unconventional or controversial (although just possibly 'correct') views, then you're left with a forum fill of sheep who say things like, "string him up", 'cut off his balls', and 'all men who sleep with 'ladies' under 18 are pedophiles (another thread)...

Get out the shears.

Not manslaughter?

My major is criminology; this means that I can be wrong. But probably less wrong than people who majored in something esle. Or worked 30 years in a dull job and are pensioned out in Thailand.

It's all conjecture at this point, but look at the mans story.

Seems she started to scream whilst they were in the shower together ,he was high on amphetamines, she shoved him ,he showed back, she fell through a glass door & then took a piece of glass and stabbed him in the foot.He then panicked and tried to quiet her down by banging her head on the floor ????

According to him, he as physically assaulted first. His response may have been inappropriate but I wouldn't doubt that he didn't intend for her to go through a glass dorr.

Then she attacked him with a weapon, i.e. a piece of glass.

The he lost the plot.

He states he was on drugs; she probably was too. (birds of the feather and all that).

So, this looks not to be a premeditated attack; that would rule out a type of first degree murder (which is almost impossile to prove; I talked to a hitman who basically told me that if they can't prove 1st they probably can't prove second, and he just copped to manslaughter in a plea bargain. Yes he killed someone. Yes he did time for [i[ that one[/].

It also looks to not even be planned. 2nd degree is therefore out.

It actually looks like a totally unplanned homicide. The result of situation/drugs/high emotion/poor decisions, etc.

This falls squarely within the definition of manslaughter in most places.

And the fact that he planned to dispose of the body does not influence the gacts of the murder. It would, however, have an effect on the length of his sentence.

For the day that you 'accidentally' kill someone in the heat of the moment, this posts nuggest of free advice is to turn yourself in; you've taken a like; you'll most likely be caught; don't aggravate the situation; your situation. don't compound the suffering of your victims family; at least come clean to them and allow them closure...

However, if you're in a country with a corrupt, inefficient, and ill-defined rule of law...run like ######.

Especially if you're in a country where the majority of expats, usually the highest common denominator outside of the west at least...say things like ummm, "string him up". Duh. Cut off his balls. He should be someones bitch inside.

The people who should be banned, if anyone.

My position is a result of my having to flee Thailand?

Laughable and contemptible.

I pick the former as I 'know' and quite like Heng; but his views are easily as slanted as mine.

I left by choice. I was already making more than quite a few teachers. But I wanted more for my family so opted out of the Thai (non)system for awhile to get greater cushion.

In any case, let's call myself a total loser who flopped out of Thailand.

But even then the whole scenario reeks fo one walking up to a blind guy, having a disagreement bout something, and then calling him a blind f.o.k who can't see the facts because he's got no sight...and broadcasting it to everyone.

Not that it had anything to do with the blind foks position in any case.

IA

[Heng]

[

Best to make like a rabbit.

I still hope he gets away; because there's no justice even if he gets caught.

IA

Only a bad man would want a murderer to get away. Get away to kill again? Aren't you at least curious to see if he commited murder before?

Your viewpoint is unconscionable. You should be banned from this forum.

IssanAlex has a love/hate relationship (loves his family, would love to live here carefree, BUT hates that he has to work in Korea to make that happen... while many other expats and locals do not have to go to such means) with this place, you have to understand his background before passing judgement.

I would dispute that. Everyone has their own "cross to bear"... everyone has different stressors in life. We ALL have to make do with what life has dealt us and the decisions we have made in response to it. That's no excuse or reason to make the pathetic comments he has made.

I'm not saying it's a legitimate excuse. I'm merely giving background info regarding the true origins (IMO) of IA's comments. I think if he wasn't wronged (whether real or imagined) by Thais and by his own experiences here, he wouldn't have made such a comment.

[Heng]

My position is a result of my having to flee Thailand?

Laughable and contemptible.

I pick the former as I 'know' and quite like Heng; but his views are easily as slanted as mine.

I left by choice. I was already making more than quite a few teachers. But I wanted more for my family so opted out of the Thai (non)system for awhile to get greater cushion.

In any case, let's call myself a total loser who flopped out of Thailand.

I like you too. You're still fighting the good fight, while real losers have already packed up and gone home AND continue to whinge about the LOS/bargirls/Thai laws/etc. etc.) often years and years removed from Thailand.

Back on topic though, I think you and I both know that justice WILL in fact be served in this case, as the Swede in question is a nobody. If you're poor, or unimportant, justice is swift, certain and severe here, as it should be. That's the only reason why I question your original post. Sure, people get away with it here and the rule of law isn't fair for all (I can think of more than a few places where that happens in the west as well), and the wealthy and powerful often get a pass, but probably not for this guy. Not getting X number of appeals, not being able to draw this trial out for years and years, not getting off on a technicality because Lt. Somchai wore rubber gloves instead of latex gloves doesn't mean there isn't justice here.

Edited March 2, 2005 by Heng

[Simbo]

Pattaya does invite more weirdos than most places. You have to admit this. I think all the misfits in the world find their way there. Thankgod I live on the other side of Sukumvit, where sanity prevails.

[Khun Larry]

My major is criminology; this means that I can be wrong. But probably less wrong than people who majored in something esle. Or worked 30 years in a dull job and are pensioned out in Thailand.

It's all conjecture at this point, but look at the mans story.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Good post. Good to hear from someone other than the "sheep"

The Swede is beginning to sound like a victim.

If the Swede was the one to die it would have been an accident for sure.

And if Thailand was not so corrupt, he probably would have just reported the accident.

[britmaveric]

My major is criminology; this means that I can be wrong. But probably less wrong than people who majored in something esle. Or worked 30 years in a dull job and are pensioned out in Thailand.

It's all conjecture at this point, but look at the mans story.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Good post. Good to hear from someone other than the "sheep"

The Swede is beginning to sound like a victim.

If the Swede was the one to die it would have been an accident for sure.

And if Thailand was not so corrupt, he probably would have just reported the accident.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ok- I agree there seems to be different standards for justice but lets not forget its the same way elsewhere. Those with dosh get off more than those that don't. The swede is a bloody lunatic - lets not forget he comitted a heinous act and he deserves severe punishment.

Edited March 2, 2005 by britmaveric

[Pattaya_Fox]

.....Yes. and he is going to be charged with FIRST DEGREE MURDER......

[IsaanAlex]

I think you and I both know that justice WILL in fact be served in this case, as the Swede in question is a nobody. If you're poor, or unimportant, justice is swift, certain and severe here, as it should be. That's the only reason why I question your original post. Sure, people get away with it here and the rule of law isn't fair for all (I can think of more than a few places where that happens in the west as well), and the wealthy and powerful often get a pass, but probably not for this guy. Not getting X number of appeals, not being able to draw this trial out for years and years, not getting off on a technicality because Lt. Somchai wore rubber gloves instead of latex gloves doesn't mean there isn't justice here.

Hmm.

It seems as if you're suggesting that 'nobody's'; i.e. poor, unimportant and powerless people... deserve swift, certain, and severe punishment.

I respectfully disgree.

It's been said that a measure of a society is the way....

Good post. Good to hear from someone other than the "sheep"

At your service.

The Swede is beginning to sound like a victim.

I think in actual fact he is both victimiser and a victim. Probably the former more than the latter, but nevertheless; I really don't know that he needs to be (pre-)judged as harshly as he has been...

If the Swede was the one to die it would have been an accident for sure.

And this is one reason why.

And if Thailand was not so corrupt, he probably would have just reported the accident.

Quite possibly. It is rare to run from a murder where the authorities already have a bead on you; by his actions it looks as if he just didn't want to be extra-judicially (sp) dispensed with before being processed for his 'crime'-whatever it may be.

Not uncommon that accused turn themselves in to lawyers, or others, subsequent to being taken into custody by the police. Less 'accidents' that way...

The swede is a bloody lunatic - lets not forget he comitted a heinous act and he deserves severe punishment.

Britmaveric.

Let's not forget what he's accused of. Let's not overstate even that; it seems far from a 'heinous' crime the way I've read it. And yes, if guilty, he deserves to be punished; but to the extent that he's due.

I say that he shouldn't recieve a punishment any more (or less) severe than what the alleged trollop would have gotten if she killed him.

And if that means 20 years in jail, tough s.hit. It may not be fair, but if it's a 'Thai crime', and ... it's a 'Thai sentence'; he can't expect anything else...

Should've smashed a Swedes head in.

I would dispute that. Everyone has their own "cross to bear"... everyone has different stressors in life. We ALL have to make do with what life has dealt us and the decisions we have made in response to it. That's no excuse or reason to make the pathetic comments he has made.

That's the spirit!

I don't agree with attacking a person for their financial situation, bad luck, poor choices, pedigree, etc.

Just call an as.shole and as.shole and be done with it.

.....Yes. and he is going to be charged with FIRST DEGREE MURDER......

Lucky him if he is; provided that if they can't prove First Degree he can't still be convicted of the lesser 2nd degree or manslaughter.

For an all or nothing charge, higher is better as it's a higher burden of proof for the Prosecution...and if they don't meet that, you walk...

IA

Edited March 2, 2005 by IsaanAlex

[meadish_sweetball]

If you look at the way his life history is presented in the media (biased, who knows, and then my argument may be less valid, but still), he seems like a man who has perpetually been on the run away from something.

His choices to join the Foreign Legion and work as a Security Guard for a trade suggest that he is attracted to violence.

Again, if the recount of events around the murder are correct, he snaps easily. He chose to take amphetamines, a drug that often induces violent behaviour. There are also stories of screams of pain from the prostitutes he has been using prior to the murder.

In short, judging from what we have been told, he doesnt seem like a particularly nice guy; quite the opposite. I won't mind too much if he gets a severe sentence. Even if this means the justice system is flawed.

[Heng]

It seems as if you're suggesting that 'nobody's'; i.e. poor, unimportant and powerless people... deserve swift, certain, and severe punishment.

IA

Nah, I just said that's the way it is (or seems to be). Whether they "deserve" it or not is all coffee talk in the end.

Both the killer cop and the killer Swede should be punished IF they are guilty. But one being of totally minor importance in his corner of the LOS and the other of no importance whatsoever, the latter is more likely to be punished. Oh well.

[spike]

Issan Alex,

You majored in criminology and read the reports of the situation and figure he is innocent. What a crock of sh-t.

Why don't you just get to the point. She is a Thai and he is a farang. She must have had it coming to her, why else would you proclaim a person you have never met, a thief, a junkie and a scam artist, to be telling the truth. You are quick to come to conclusions before knowing the facts.

You would suck as a cop, but you would be a farang criminals best friend in Thailand.

Where did you get your criminology degree?

"If you can draw this pirate, pictured on the back of the matchbook cover, you too can be an Artist. Simply enclose 29.95 in a self addressed stamped envelope and your, I Am A Artist, certificate will be in the mail shortly."

[IsaanAlex]

Issan Alex,

You majored in criminology and read the reports of the situation and figure he is innocent.

Where did I say this genius?

To say that I read the same things as everyone else, denied the impulse to string him up without knowing first the full facts (still the case), and was probably closest in the thread to calling the 'scenario', real or at least claimed (by the man)....put's me in pretty good stead.

A little trip down memory lane for you;

My initial prediction;

"...And to this 'murder' where so many clowns say just string the guy up, who's to say that the Thai ho didn't instgate a fight with him as she did with others in the neighborhood, possibly with a knife (which could account for her injuries, i.e. her getting it turned around on her!)."

Why don't you just get to the point. She is a Thai and he is a farang. She must have had it coming to her, why else would you proclaim a person you have never met, a thief, a junkie and a scam artist, to be telling the truth.

Nice try fool.

My wife of 7 years in may is a Thai; as is my stepson; and my son is half. Murderers don't get a pass in my book, no matter who they are or who they kill.

That's, um, kinda been a point in a couple of my threads.

[ i.e. One shouldn't get a pass because they're rich, powerful, Thai, etc, or get strung up because they're poor, dumb, a jew, or a farang....].

And you are doubly laughable as you have just called a man that you have likely never met a 'thief, a junkie, and a scam artist"

You are quick to come to conclusions before knowing the facts.

I jumped in with the rest of the armchair sleuths and made a prediction; not a conclusion.

And it wasn't a bad one...

You would suck as a cop, but you would be a farang criminals best friend in Thailand.

I've never wanted to be a cop. And I probably wouldn't have been such a bad cop in any case.

And the Thais could do worse than to put me on the payroll; for starters, I wouldn't be anyones best friend. That would be a good start to clean up the rot...

Where did you get your criminology degree?

Simon Fraser University. Quite a reputable Uni; with a top Crim. Program.

You should check them out; although they probably couldn't help you with your crap critical thinking skills.

IA

Edited March 2, 2005 by IsaanAlex

[Pie Boy]

Sorry to go off topic but did someone mention sheep? Mmmmmmm happy days.