Young Dog Swollen Face - What Bit Him?

[Cuban]

I post this as a point of interest/discussion as the problem has now passed.

The young dog in this picture appeared troubled and scratching his face yesterday morning while I was busy in the kitchen, (Not one of my dogs but spends much of his day wondering around the grounds and joins my dogs for walks most days.) the first look suggested to me that he had been bitten of stung by something. (No chemicals in the area.) My first thought was a snake bite as we have had a few snakes around the house of late, but with hindsight I thinking some type of bee or insect. (Maybe ants but no large nest close to the house and only around the dog's face, no sign of other bite marks.)

The swelling lasted about three hours. Apart from pawing at his face the dog was not otherwise distressed or showing other symtoms. Awake and alert, stable on his feed - accepted food and water the whole time.

I had washed his face and just finished looking carefully for and punchure mark or stinger before taking the pictures - he rubbed his face in the dust again before taking the pictures hence dirty face.

No sign of swelling inside the mouth, tongue or elsewhere on the body. I was going to give a small dose of an antihistamine, but none was availible. The dog's owner was not willing to take a trip to the vet in the nearest big town, so treatment consisted of montoring the swelling and reassuring the dog.

Later the dog appeared completely normal and joined our afternoon walk in the rain.

Any thoughts?

[bina]

i go with stung...... stupid lilee the lhasa ate a bee that got in our house: tongue and lip swollen, no other problems other then a very upset lhasa... did shove a minute amount of ahiston (chlorephen...anti histamine) down her throat... too bad i didnt photo that.

if it was scorpion or snake more probable right smack on the nose itself as thats what dogs do; shove noses in corners. bees on the other hand, fly around and dogs snap up at them... but ya never knows does ya?

did u hear him yelping before hand?????

bina

[Nienke]

Wow, that's quite an allergic reaction! He just turned into a Sharpei for a couple of hours.

I assume that if it would have been bee stung then only around the stung would it be swollen and not the whole face.

Maybe the dog ate something that it's allergic to, is allergic for a certain pant or maybe to some household chemical? Rabies vaccine can also cause such a swelling to the face, but as the owner was unwilling to go to the vet probably that was not the case here.

In other words: I haven't a clue. Solly, not very helpful!

edit: Here some link with pic's I found:

http://drnelsonsveterinaryblog.com/2008/10...ollen-face.aspx

http://blog.360.yahoo.com/blog-uSEyLAQ9cqS...cddXdQRVVIXbA--

http://www.boxerworld.com/forums/1216646-post14.html Here it says <They think she ate a bunch of boganvilla leaves off a flowering plant in the garden.>

[glegolo]

Wow, that's quite an allergic reaction! He just turned into a Sharpei for a couple of hours.

I assume that if it would have been bee stung then only around the stung would it be swollen and not the whole face.

Maybe the dog ate something that it's allergic to, is allergic for a certain pant or maybe to some household chemical? Rabies vaccine can also cause such a swelling to the face, but as the owner was unwilling to go to the vet probably that was not the case here.

In other words: I haven't a clue. Solly, not very helpful!

edit: Here some link with pic's I found:

http://drnelsonsveterinaryblog.com/2008/10...ollen-face.aspx

http://blog.360.yahoo.com/blog-uSEyLAQ9cqS...cddXdQRVVIXbA--

http://www.boxerworld.com/forums/1216646-post14.html Here it says <They think she ate a bunch of boganvilla leaves off a flowering plant in the garden.>

-----------------------------------------

Maybe a Thai bitch bit him...

Glegolo

[elfe]

maybe a reaction to a frog. it shows he has been digging, so maybe dug up a frog. quite common to get reactions from frog'liquids'. did you see any frog lying around?

if it was snake or centipede the swelling wont dissapear in days and is severe. also with snakes he would salivate and appear really ill quickly.

bee sting rather not but possible. also maybe some kind of lightly poisonous caterpillar.

thankfully it vanished quickly!

[Samuian]

I would go for froggy (toad) too!

seems to happen more often...

form the archives of the www.

"Keep toads off food menu"

4 February 2008

Translated from 2 February 2008 MinyHealth Warning Published in Khon Kaen

The Royal Thai Ministry of Public Health has warned consumers not to use toads in cooking because the poisons present in toads are not removed by high heat in cooking. As well, the Ministry has reiterated to the public that there is no scientific evidence present to support the widely-held belief that use of toads in food can cure diseases.

Dr. Yach Boonyuangwirote, Thailand's Permanent Secretary of the Ministry of Health, stated that use of toads as a sidedish when drinking alcohol or beer is an extremely dangerous matter and that each year there are several deaths reported because of this practice. He said that toads are poisonous and that in their poison is a white mucus-like substance called "toad resin," and in addition, the parts of a toad - skin, blood, organs and eggs - all carry poisons.

The doctor indicated that these were all dangerous, especially as when made into food the poisons impact the working of the heart, including heart pressure and heartbeat. As well, the poisons in toads are resistant to heat, so the public is warned. Those who hold the belief that toads can increease scrength or cure diseases are wrong and taking extremely dangerous chances in consuming the poisonous toad.

Khorat Post

[Cuban]

Thank you for your thoughts, for me it is interesting to undergo this type of peer review as a form of learning and sharing experiance.

Bina: if it was scorpion or snake more probable right smack on the nose itself as thats what dogs do; shove noses in corners. bees on the other hand, fly around and dogs snap up at them... did u hear him yelping before hand?????

Indeed I paid close attention to his nose during inspection looking for a stinger or other bite mark, none found even now with the swelling gone. I was cooking at the time I assume it occured; I'm aware that he probably barked, but that is not uncommon and I guessed he was barking at someone visiting the house or 'playing' with another dog etc. nothing unusual.

Nienke: Wow, that's quite an allergic reaction! He just turned into a Sharpei for a couple of hours.

I assume that if it would have been bee stung then only around the stung would it be swollen and not the whole face.

Maybe the dog ate something that it's allergic to, is allergic for a certain pant or maybe to some household chemical? Rabies vaccine can also cause such a swelling to the face, but as the owner was unwilling to go to the vet probably that was not the case here.

Has been vaccined but the real owner is out of the country currently, the caretaker owner is not an animal lover hence he stays at our house most days. I check for ticks etc as I don't want him infecting my pristine ( ) dogs. No chemicals around the house. The swelling was quite firm to the touch. The swollen flesh around the eyes made me think of something sprayed. A neighbor believes it was a cobra spitting venom. No idea if that would only last a few hours, as I said there was nothing else wrong with the dog.

From The Boxer World website link above: "The vet told me to continue to give her regular benedryl tablets 2 every eight hours."

A neighbor offered 500mg paracetamol tablets at the time, I was unsure if paracetamol was toxic to dogs as it is with cats and the dog did not appear distressed enough to investigate pain relief at the time. (I note that paracetamol is lethal to snakes.) I have read that response to antihistamine drugs in dogs can be poor so my natural reaction to reduce a 'human' dose to a mg per Kg dose suitable for a small dog might not be effective. Sigh at the whole human drugs for animals issue!

Elfe: "...maybe a reaction to a frog. it shows he has been digging, so maybe dug up a frog. quite common to get reactions from frog'liquids'. did you see any frog lying around?

if it was snake or centipede the swelling wont dissapear in days and is severe. also with snakes he would salivate and appear really ill quickly. bee sting rather not but possible. also maybe some kind of lightly poisonous caterpillar.

Plenty of toads around, I've seen him watch them before - not witnessed any deep interest or attempt to eat one. I would have expected swelling of the tongue.

So the question remains open till next time, I just hope the dog remembers whatever it was looked like so avoids it in future.

[chuppachops]

The same happened to one of our dogs downstairs outside.. his face looked exactly the same as your picture. We later found a huge black scorpion chewed up on the floor just its big nippers left intact! might be the same..

[bina]

at the vets we used ahiston (chlorephenramne or chlortrimeton as its brand name in the states); we use the dosage for a baby when adminestering to a dog. for an adult goat, we use dosage for children, for goat kids, same as babies... it is a very good anti histamine and saved several of my goat kids (in past job) after receiving , and reacting to, vaccines; and several times for dogs for various reasons.

do not give paracetamol to dogs or cats... NSAIDS (nurofen,/ dyparone) are preferred if needed for pain, but for severe allergic reactions we often gave prednisone pills or as injection, depending on situation(not something u usually have laying around the house unless u have asthmatic kids or chronically ill pets... )

boxers here often get bitten on the nose by snakes (several didnt make it, of the ones i heard of or knew personally) cause they shove their noses in everywhere, and they have that flat nose so their whole head is exposed to the snake. but then so do horses here.

we have fatal and non fatal scorpion stings here; my old staffie got stung, by the time we got to a vet, we were told that if he survived this long (4 hours +-) than he was past the worst... that was 20 yrs ago...

actually it works the other way around; curious dogs will consistently stick noses in where they shouldtn, and dont learn...

bina

israel

[auntyedna]

If the puffy face is accompanied by excessive salivation (and I mean really excessive - body covered with froth, strands of thick saliva coming from mouth) then it's probably a snake bite. It should be possible to find the puncture wounds. My experience is as follows: Within one hour of bite, swelling comes up and the dog looks distressed. Within two hours, salivation starts. Within three hours, the dog is covered with saliva and looks rabid. Within four hours, the dog is listless, appears to have lost the will to live, and will not resist any kind of handling.

In case anyone thinks I'm a callous b*stard for apparently watching my dog die, the above progression was noted during a frantic drive around Phang Nga's towns trying to find (i) cobra anti-venin and (ii) a vet who could put it in. Result (on this occasion): serum found, administered by vet, dog kept on saline drip overnight, fine the next day, lived happily until the next encounter (which unfortunately was fatal).

[Cuban]

If the puffy face is accompanied by excessive salivation (and I mean really excessive - body covered with froth, strands of thick saliva coming from mouth) then it's probably a snake bite.

Within four hours, the dog is listless, appears to have lost the will to live, and will not resist any kind of handling.

.......lived happily until the next encounter (which unfortunately was fatal).

Hello Edna, thank you for taking the time to reply to this thread, as I said in the OP, it was all over in a few hours, no salivation or other distress at all.

The swelling lasted about three hours. Apart from pawing at his face the dog was not otherwise distressed or showing other symtoms. Awake and alert, stable on his feed - accepted food and water the whole time.

I had washed his face and just finished looking carefully for and punchure mark or stinger before taking the pictures - he rubbed his face in the dust again before taking the pictures hence dirty face.

I have read up on snake bites since this took place; if the dog survives the first hour or so then the snake bite is unlikely to have carried a full load of venom (a warning shot) and the dog/person is likely to recover if the bite was from a 'bad' snake.

Also bites from younger 'bad' snakes are potentally more dangerous as they may yet to develop the ability to regulate the amount of venom delivered in a bite.

My dogs and I saw a 'good' snake early this morning while out patrolling the rice fields, it was a Xenochrophis piscator (Checkered Keelback) about one metre.

Good web site link.

[TAWP]

My dog grabbed a toad by the leg tossed it up and carried it in his mouth. Bad idea as his lips started swelling up a lot and he started coughing, seemingly having slight problems to breath. Was the first thing I though about when I saw the above. Even if in my dogs case the lower lips was were the major swelling occurred.