Thai Education System Fails

[george]

Thai education system fails to promote good citizenship

BANGKOK: -- Thailand’s education system has failed to teach good citizenship, according to a recent study.

An evaluation of the country’s national education system shows it has failed to make the country’s students good citizens.

The schools’ failure was partly the result of the contradiction between the real life of more materialism and what were taught in curricula, according to Assoc. Prof. Dr. Sakchai Niranthavee of Srinakharinvirot University, who supervised the study.

It is also difficult to measure any concrete results of teaching, Mr. Sakchai said.

The study's findings were presented to a seminar on “Children and Youth Development: Indicators and Evaluation”, held by the National Education Council on Monday.

The seminar's participants discussed ways to promote ethical teaching in the country’s schools and institutes of higher education.

Assoc. Prof. Dr. Sakchai urged the government to integrate ethical values, including honesty, generosity, courage, obedience and self reliance, into the national curricula.

Teachers should broaden students’ minds and show Thai youngsters how to live as good citizens and to live peacefully.

--TNA 2005-02-22

[RDN]

Good citizens? Could start by teaching 'em not to throw their empty lunch bags, coke tins, paper cups, etc. into the grass verge as they leave school.

[Golf]

Thai students have never been encuraged to discuss the subjects they are studying, they are told. There are no discussion in the classes, not questions (most of the time). In a higher education sector is even worse. They are focusing on the professional subjects, the ones that they are going to use when they're graduated. There are no studies in moral and ethnical standards, or very few. That's why most Thai college students are graduated without any moral conerns regarding doing good things for the society. This is also a cause of corruption, immorality, lack of honesty in this society.

Golf

[Ajarn]

Thai students have never been encuraged to discuss the subjects they are studying, they are told.  There are no discussion in the classes, not questions (most of the time).  In a higher education sector is even worse.  They are focusing on the professional subjects, the ones that they are going to use when they're graduated.  There are no studies in moral and ethnical standards, or very few.  That's why most Thai college students are graduated without any moral conerns regarding doing good things for the society.  This is also a cause of corruption, immorality, lack of honesty in this society.

Golf

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Golf, some good points. When I was classroom teaching here (I taught at all levels during my career here), it was always difficult, at first, to get students to be more involved with my classes, but after some training, most of my students enjoyed being a part of an interactive classroom.

It is my belief that teachers do have an inherent responsibility in trying to fill in the learning blanks of their students. If the curriculum isn't sufficient, the teacher should do their best to fill in those blanks.

All well and good, but the teacher's position should also be considered. A teacher at the Prathom and Mathayom levels works long hours each day, some teaching multiple-hundreds of students each day, many in ill-equipped classrooms. The schools put enormous pressures on teachers to work outside of the classroom in other school duties, yet offer little in the way of support or even 'thanks'. These are reasons why the teaching profession is such a burn-out job here (as it is in many such schools around the world).

At the university level, teachers have a lot more leeway in teaching, and fewer outside-of-classroom responsibilities, making it more possible for most to be able to focus their teaching and be more student-centered in their teaching approaches. But, still, many of these teachers still do the minimums... Because they can. At the university levels, teachers are less accountable and much better able to blend into the woodwork than their lower-level colleagues, thus avoiding almost any scrutiny from their bosses. Even the 'teacher evaluations' forms given to students each term are often pointless.. In schools where I taught, the completed forms were handed directly to teachers, who then later hand them in to their office. Before handing them in, teachers routinely go through the returned forms, weeding out the negative reports.

Accountability. That's where many of these problems stem from, I feel. Teachers must be held more accountable for their teaching standards and behaviors. But how?

Well, one simple way, using the evaluations as one example, is to keep the process of students evaluating their teacher a private and anonymous process. The student should have assurance that the teacher can't identify the student's remarks on the form, Otherwise, the student would be a bit stupid to write anything except accolades for their teachers... Students have a responsibility to be proactive in their learning and should hold teachers accountable, but they must feel safe from retribution in order to do their part...

Admins should be observing teachers, too, but that rarely, if ever, occurs in most Thai schools. I was doing 'Classroom Management Techniques' training to Thai teachers for a time, and when I initially observed their teaching in order to try to ascertain their teaching and management problems, 99% told me I was the first person to ever observe their teaching... Of course they were nervous, many were even resentful, but afterwards, they all felt the feedback from me was very helpful (or so they told me!)

So much goes on in schools that's not so obvious to anyone outside. Lots of pressure on everyone, but without much in the way of support to help balance the pressures or encourage teachers to do any more than the minimums to get by on...

Just like the students...

Things can change here, but they likely won't in the near future, except on a small scale, with individual teachers and individual schools, as before.... There are many dedicated teachers and admins out there who do give a shit (witness the story above, which centered around a seminar to "discuss ways to promote ethical teaching in the country’s schools and institutes of higher education"). People do care, but they are still in the minority in terms of power, and being able to effect system-wide changes. Unfortunately, that has been left up to politicians to decide- thereby pretty much guaranteeing not much change for the better is likely to occur... As we have clearly seen in this government, where even when the PM himself took over the Ministry of Education, nothing positive ever came out of that.

Hopefully, the discussions will continue, and it will help encourage change to make our educational system here more effective and better prepare our students to become 'good citizens', not only of Thailand, but good citizens of the world, too.

Edited February 23, 2005 by Ajarn

[NedKelly]

It's more than just a problem in the classroom. Theres a whole range of concepts that could address the said issues. For example, sport and other activities such as martial arts may develop the required characteristics in studetns of all ages. In my opinion, there is not enough opportunity for Thai students to participate in sports and activities. So it could be seen as a problem for the Thai government to address.ie provide more facilities, develop sports structure across the country and promoting sport and leisure. If they need me a s a consultant ...please call.....

[otherstuff1957]

Ajarn covered most of the points that I'd like to make, but there are three simple things that could be done to improve Thai Schools:

1) Reduce average class size from 50+ to about 25. Of course this would mean doubling the amount of money spent on education, so it won't happen, but it would make a world of difference to the quality of education that the students receive.

2) Allow students to fail. Right now it is possible for a student to pass though the educational system without learning anything! If a student scores zero, teachers routinely adjust the grades upward so they won't have to deal with failing student. Quite frankly, teachers don't have the time or the resources to help a failing student, so I can't really blame them that much!

3) Discourage cheating. This point is probably the most important one! Right now cheating (copying) is widespread and there are no real consequences. By being allowed to cheat, students are being taught that cheating is not only ok, it's the only way to really get ahead. After all, why should a student work hard when the kid next to him will get the same grade just by copying the more diligent students work? If educators think that this attitude will not be carried on to the students adult life, they are just fooling themselves.

[Ajarn]

2) Allow students to fail. Right now it is possible for a student to pass though the educational system without learning anything! If a student scores zero, teachers routinely adjust the grades upward so they won't have to deal with failing student. Quite frankly, teachers don't have the time or the resources to help a failing student, so I can't really blame them that much!

Yes, big problem here. I did fail students, and I always had ###### to pay with my bosses for being so tough, but I DID offer students help who needed it, and my students KNEW that I wasn't going to pull any punches in grading fairly. Even so, my admins would still pressure me to change my grades for some students (some were friends of my bosses). Admins can't change any official grade forms themselves, for these forms require the signature of the teacher, and that's why the pressure is often brought to bear directly on the teacher who doesn't conform to making sure students don't get 'F's'....

3) Discourage cheating. This point is probably the most important one! Right now cheating (copying) is widespread and there are no real consequences. By being allowed to cheat, students are being taught that cheating is not only ok, it's the only way to really get ahead. After all, why should a student work hard when the kid next to him will get the same grade just by copying the more diligent students work? If educators think that this attitude will not be carried on to the students adult life, they are just fooling themselves.

I absolutely agree. Allowing students to cheat by not making them accountable simply tells them it's okay to cheat. This is the 'good citizenship training' they'll get, as you said.. And, of course, educators are all well aware of that fact... But, in such cases, the test proctors are at the mercy of their bosses, who must counter-sign any official allegation of cheating, but rarely do, instead, allowing the student to take another test- if they do anything at all...

[Golf]

Good points from both of you! I agree with all of them, but:

1. Thai government is more happy to support "Miss Universe 2005" than to help its schools.

2. Thai teachers get "minimum" pays, almost the lowest government workers in the country, yet have long working hours. Why should they try harder?

3. Cheating is almost spelled the same way as the word "smart" in Thai society. How can we change it?

Golf

[Ajarn]

Good points from both of you!  I agree with all of them, but:

How can we change it?

Golf 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, that's the zillion baht question, isn't it? How can we change it?

I think that open discussion, gives a better chance for fullfillment than not having open discussions. It's the things we don't talk about that have the least hope of change...

As an individual fighting a bad system, wow, not many folks win here, history tells us.... But, there have been winners, too. And lets not forget 'TiT', which I interpret as, 'anything and everything is possible here'.

Not giving up in your efforts. Never allowing your voice to be frightened into silence.

It's a good path to change, I believe

[Rhys]

YADA YADA YADA

[Ajarn]

I've always thought is was best to remain silent when all you can do is a Flintstone impression

[kat]

Excellent posts here, and I'm glad to find them today. My last day of teaching, and I'm mentally and physically exhausted. I have a lot to say on this subject, and the issue of ethics has been rolling around in my head all week, but I am too tired to attempt it today. I vigorously enforced a no-cheating rule in all my classes during exams this week, and it was hard, hard work. I taught 13 classes of 50 students each, 26 hours a week. It was a very tough ride. I have a lot to say about these private contractor language institutes

But it's been a bittersweet one, and also very rewarding. Many of my kids actually did well on their tests, to their great surprise! And after a very rocky start, the Thai language administrator pulled me aside today and told me that they want more teachers like me. Made my day.

And finding this thread has just completed it. Great post, Ajarn.

[Ajarn]

Excellent posts here, and I'm glad to find them today.  My last day of teaching, and I'm mentally and physically exhausted.  I have a lot to say on this subject, and the issue of ethics has been rolling around in my head all week, but I am too tired to attempt it today.  I vigorously enforced a no-cheating rule in all my classes during exams this week, and it was hard, hard work.  I taught 13 classes of 50 students each, 26 hours a week.  It was a very tough ride.  I have a lot to say about these private contractor language institutes   

But it's been a bittersweet one, and also very rewarding.  Many of my kids actually did well on their tests, to their great surprise!  And after a very rocky start, the Thai language administrator pulled me aside today and told me that they want more teachers like me.  Made my day. 

And finding this thread has just completed it.  Great post, Ajarn.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Great when a teacher gets that kind of feedback from admins!

I'm so glad that you felt you kept your integrity intact, it seems. That was one of the hardest tasks for me sometimes as a teacher, because it is easier, theoretically, to follow the lowest common denominator, isn't it? But, a person with integrity and honour feels like shit when they go the wrong way, and they feel great when they do the right thing, like you do.... Congrats.

Btw, I didn't know that you were a woman until you chided me for my 'son' remark.... I rarely ever think about those things here

[kat]

Thanks Ajarn. About the 'son' interactions , no worries. Everyday is a new day for me.

Cheers.

[Darknight]

Thai students have never been encuraged to discuss the subjects they are studying, they are told.  There are no discussion in the classes, not questions (most of the time).  In a higher education sector is even worse.  They are focusing on the professional subjects, the ones that they are going to use when they're graduated.  There are no studies in moral and ethnical standards, or very few.  That's why most Thai college students are graduated without any moral conerns regarding doing good things for the society.  This is also a cause of corruption, immorality, lack of honesty in this society.

Golf

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A very enlightened post golf

[Golf]

Thanks, Darknight! I really think that cheating is the root of the education system here. It's a real hard social issue to fix it. If you look around, you will see Thais are cheating and being cheated all the time.

Golf

[joe beets]

Thanks, Darknight!   I really think that cheating is the root of the education system here.  It's a real hard social issue to fix it.  If you look around, you will see Thais are cheating and being cheated all the time.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My father always said cheaters only cheat themselves, and I remember thinking, "Yeah, right." I was looking for any shortcut I could find, and in the end usually wound up right in the middle of the pack, with all the other sleazeballs. Of course back home, there were real repercussions for getting caught, unlike here, and I found out good and hard firsthand. But I had the great fortune to really get that lesson at an early enough age for the counterprogramming to have a chance to set in.

The problem in Thailand, as I see it, is that there aren't enough negative consequences to getting caught. What may be worse, it sometimes seems that cheating well pays off well, not just in school, but later on in life, in one's marriage or climb up the corporate or political ladder. What kind of lesson is that? Is that why it is so tolerated? Is cheating seen as a necessary skill if one is to thrive in this society?

I don't mean to slag off at Thailand or place it on a unique footing here. There are plenty of people in my homeland who have chiseled their way to the top, and evidence of these sleazy success stories can be found in all socio-economic strata. I understand one can even be (s)elected president on the strength of a lifetime of lying, cheating, and stealing, but I fear I may be veering too far off topic.

jb

[Kido]

Most Thai students and parent are more concern about the teacher are imported or local, if it was farang it must be good but they don't know some of those came from hippies in Kao Sarn road. I am not framing anybody,try to take walk in Kao Sarn and you know why so many stall offer degree for sale!

That is why the moral standard are not improving

Edited February 26, 2005 by Kido

[Ajarn]

Most Thai students and parent are more concern about the teacher are imported or local, if it was farang it must be good but they don't know some of those came from hippies in Kao Sarn road. I am not framing anybody,try to take walk in Kao Sarn and you know why so many stall offer degree for sale!

That is why the moral standard are not improving

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In my experience, guess who doesn't buy the KSR degrees?.... 'Hippies' don't. In my experience, it's been straight-looking brits and aussies who either never went to university, or they went to a vocational college, which diidn't count here at the time...

That is why the moral standard are not improving

If only the real world was as simplistic as you imagine...

[george]

Govt moves to solve education problems

KHON KAEN: -- Thailand’s Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra has urged school teachers, parents and students to put forward problems with the country’s education system for the government to discuss.

Speaking on his weekly radio broadcast this morning, Mr. Thaksin said that he travelled to the country's northeastern province of Khon Kaen on Friday to attend a workshop aimed at seeking ways to develop the country's education system.

School administrators, teachers, parents and students in the region participated in the meeting.

Several parents complained that their children were addicted to drugs and spent most of their time playing computer and video games at shops, the prime minister said.

Students offered their views on the syllabus and the school environment.

And teachers spoke of their debts, concerns about promotion and the lack of equipment in the schools.

After listening to their views, Mr. Thaksin said he had asked the participants to compile a detailed list of the problems to help the government develop long-term solutions.

--TNA 2005-02-26

[Ajarn]

Now here's where that Yada Yada Yada might be more appropriate. I had to look at the date because he's said and done the same same before. Results always same same, too. Nada nada

Slow news day, I suppose

[Golf]

Mr. Toxin is just like another Chinese business man. Throw money in the pool and let see what happens, humm? I am ethnic Chinese like him. I am even a Hakka, like Mr. Taxin, but I think runing a country is not the same as runing his company. Money will not solve everything. The root of problem is still there.

Golf

[kat]

Ajarn covered most of the points that I'd like to make, but there are three simple things that could be done to improve Thai Schools:

1) Reduce average class size from 50+ to about 25.  Of course this would mean doubling the amount of money spent on education, so it won't happen, but it would make a world of difference to the quality of education that the students receive.

2) Allow students to fail.  Right now it is possible for a student to pass though the educational system without learning anything!  If a student scores zero, teachers routinely adjust the grades upward so they won't have to deal with failing student.  Quite frankly, teachers don't have the time or the resources to help a failing student, so I can't really blame them that much!

3) Discourage cheating.  This point is probably the most important one!  Right now cheating (copying) is widespread and there are no real consequences.  By being allowed to cheat, students are being taught that cheating is not only ok, it's the only way to really get ahead.  After all, why should a student work hard when the kid next to him will get the same grade just by copying the more diligent students work?  If educators think that this attitude will not be carried on to the students adult life, they are just fooling themselves. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree with you 100 percent.

[Kido]

Should get smaller classes, 40-50 students in one class is to much to focus by a single teacher.

Edited February 28, 2005 by Kido

[Ajarn]

Should get  smaller classes, 40-50 students in one class is to much to focus by a single teacher.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Generally, that's true for most any non-lecture type of course. But even in western universities, some lecture courses have 100 or more students per class.

Math classes, for example, can be large with no problems, but a course like English conversation, where vocalization practice is needed, must have a very limited size in order to give enough speaking time to all students. Such types of interactive classes quickly lose their effectiveness as the numbers grow beyond 15-20, in my experience.