Ubc Max Tv Size? For Good Quality

[media]

Sorry for the Geeky post but I got a Samsung 50" plasma Series 5. DVDs are very clear but UBC`s analogue reception is of course not that good.

Maybe i should have got a slightly smaller Box? I think UBC rez is about 720 x 420 It is obviously being stretched too much.

Can anyone comment? Seeing as I watch UBC 85% of the time, Maybe i should swap this TV for one that doesnt have to stretch the pic so much? for a clearer pic?

Would LCD make any difference? I doubt it cause the sourse is not HD or not even high quality.

Im thinking about swapping this 50" plasma for a 46" LCD, or maybe a 42" I think 50" is too big for UBC.

Comments please.. asap i have to swap this one by tomorrow if i am going to swap it..

Funnilly enough they dont have UBC at NumChai so you cant test it there, all they show you are the Megga high Rez blue ray discs that are of course Stunningly clear.

Thanks in advance..

[loong]

I can't suggest anything but maybe if you posted this in the "Internet, computers, communication, technology in Thailand " forum you'll reach more people that might be able to.

I expect one of the Mods will move it for you and delete my post. (It wouldn't be relevant then)

[soundman]

Not really Pattaya specific - will move to the tech. forum.

[Smile4u]

I use LG Plasma 42" and no problem here with UBC.

UBC remote control, have you checked the options there?

from 4:3 to 16:9 ?

: Menu - Installation.

Your TV have many Options like: Zoom 1 - Zoom 2 - Spectacle - 4:3 and 16:9. Have you tried a l l of them too?

If still seem stretched, call NumChai and ask them come your home and try adjust the TV to UBC, before you downsize your TV.

If you just went from traditional TV size 29" or less, it takes some time for your eyes to get adjusted to the new format. When we visit family and look standard TV size, I always feel my TV is strange the first days after getting home, stretched like you say.

When you watch Sophon cable, picture not "stretched" ?

Sorry if this to no help, but have never heard about your problem before.

(dont think the size is the problem here, many bars have 50" and even bigger without streching)

Edited July 14, 2009 by Smile4u

[sotsira]

Sorry for the Geeky post but I got a Samsung 50" plasma Series 5. DVDs are very clear but UBC`s analogue reception is of course not that good.

Maybe i should have got a slightly smaller Box? I think UBC rez is about 720 x 420 It is obviously being stretched too much.

Can anyone comment? Seeing as I watch UBC 85% of the time, Maybe i should swap this TV for one that doesnt have to stretch the pic so much? for a clearer pic?

Would LCD make any difference? I doubt it cause the sourse is not HD or not even high quality.

Im thinking about swapping this 50" plasma for a 46" LCD, or maybe a 42" I think 50" is too big for UBC.

Comments please.. asap i have to swap this one by tomorrow if i am going to swap it..

Funnilly enough they dont have UBC at NumChai so you cant test it there, all they show you are the Megga high Rez blue ray discs that are of course Stunningly clear.

Thanks in advance..

LCD's do give a clearer picture than Plasmas cos they usually have more pixels per sq2 inch area on the screen.

You need to know what your pixel rating is on your tv and then compare with an LCD similar size, as you suggested 42" or 46",

I think you'll find that the 42" LCD will work best with UBC unless you can find a 46" with more pixels per sq2 inch

[media]

This 50" plasma screen has 2.000.000 pxls. which is already very high. an over kill for UBC,

The problem is that the format of UBC is quite small 720 x 420 so when you try to put that on a massive screen you loose quality when it stretches it.

I have tried changing the set up options from 4.3 to 16.9.. it doesnt make much difference.

The picture problem that Im having is Not that its stretched or distorted its just that the clarity is not there when you watch UBC. I know that the screen is able to produce stunning clarity if you look at a jpg image or play a blu Ray movie, but UBC is not High Quality.

I agree with you, i recon that a 42 might be slightly clearer since it doesnt have to stretch the pixels as much.

Shame that ive got to get rid of this 50" for a 42" though the size is great for movies..

The only thing that I am trying to avoid is that i dont swap for a 42" and end up with the same problem.. Im sure that they will only let me exchange once.. i cant go exchanging every day until i get the right one can I

If they had UBC in the shop would be a lot easier.. maybe i should have a drive round until i find a TV shop that has UBC to demo the quality..

Thanks for your help.

[citizen33]

This 50" plasma screen has 2.000.000 pxls. which is already very high. an over kill for UBC,

The problem is that the format of UBC is quite small 720 x 420 so when you try to put that on a massive screen you loose quality when it stretches it.

I have tried changing the set up options from 4.3 to 16.9.. it doesnt make much difference.

The picture problem that Im having is Not that its stretched or distorted its just that the clarity is not there when you watch UBC. I know that the screen is able to produce stunning clarity if you look at a jpg image or play a blu Ray movie, but UBC is not High Quality.

I agree with you, i recon that a 42 might be slightly clearer since it doesnt have to stretch the pixels as much.

Shame that ive got to get rid of this 50" for a 42" though the size is great for movies..

The only thing that I am trying to avoid is that i dont swap for a 42" and end up with the same problem.. Im sure that they will only let me exchange once.. i cant go exchanging every day until i get the right one can I

If they had UBC in the shop would be a lot easier.. maybe i should have a drive round until i find a TV shop that has UBC to demo the quality..

Thanks for your help.

UBC is a digital satellite service, not analogue as stated in the OP. However, this doesn't necessarily mean excellent picture quality because some providers, including Truevisions, reduce the picture resolution to fit more channels on to each satellite transponder (cheaper for them). I don't know about UBC but many UK Sky Channels have a resolution of 544 x 576i, which is not as good as Terrestrial digital with 704 x 576i. The video bitrates used by satellite channels are typically in the 2-3Mbps range, which is quite a bit less than the 6Mbps-8Mbps of commercial DVD. Like most, UBC are still using MPEG-2 and the picture will improve when they change to the newer MPEG-4.

[quiksilva]

It still seems stretched with plenty of artefacts on my 46" LCD, but the picture is very clear on my ageing pixel plus 29" CRT HDTV.

[LivinLOS]

The quality of an upscaled signal (which is what your doing) will depend on many factors including the signal source and the upscaling hardware / software used to do it..

Theres some superb upscalers out there with noise controls, MPEG artifact reduction etc etc etc.. But not many people will pay the kind of money for them..

If your keen to do it on beer budget money dScaler and ffdshow MPEG filters can work wonders on a MPEG data stream in the digitial domain.. I run al my signal sources, IPTV, HDTV, SDTV, etc through a HTPC to clean them up and tweak them before rotuing them to the LCD screen and a hidef DLP projector, at a suitable viewing distance even a 100 plus inch screen can look clean if its well deinterlaced and scaled.

[nikster]

One thing's for sure, the UBC True Visions signal is shit, best watched on a 28" CRT. The only thing I watch is sports and there are horrible artifacts all over the screen. Football looks like a video game (worse, actually) when zoomed out. If I watch Tennis, I can often not see the ball. The artifacts are not upscaling artifacts, they are compression artifacts and they come from True cramming too many channels on the signal. They basically do not care about image quality in the least. Of course a few years back you'd see the artifacts only on really expensive large CRTs so maybe that explains it. But these days, you can see them on any modern LCD or plasma.

I don't think these are upscaling issues -the issue is that the source is very bad, and if you have a very sharp display you can see all the errors. If you have an old CRT you don't see these things.

I guess there are better and worse brands for upscaling, but IMO all of the later models seem to do a pretty good job. Might want to check and see if your analogue cables are good... the ones that connect the UBC box to the TV.

I am hoping they'll offer HD channels soon, then all that should go away. The programming I watch is all available in HD, e.g. live sports events.

PS: Maybe explain what you mean by stretching. If you mean it's stretched too much horizontally (all people look fat, even the ones that aren't) or vertically (long faces), then you can just change the aspect ratio on your TV. 4:3 is what UBC is broadcasting for the most part - but not always.

Edited July 15, 2009 by nikster

[PattayaPete]

Not all screens are created equal. Some are great at high definition but awful with standard definition, some the other way. Samsung TVs do seem to struggle with True Visions (UBC).

Part of the problem is that True Visions broadcasts at 544 x 576 and at very low data rates produce sub par pictures. Some TVs handle this better than others but the picture will never be great.

You actually have two problems here. The bad picture which is as described above and the aspect ratio. True are broadcasting at a ratio of 4:3 or virtually a square picture which you are trying to view on a 16:9 or rectangular screen. There are various ways to handle this and you will find your TV can show a 4:3 picture with black or grey bands at either side or can stretch the picture to the full 16:9 but distort the image. Good TVs have a variable stretch mode that only stretch the edges of the picture leaving the middle basically undistorted. This is more pleasing to the eye. You need to find the button on the remote that controls aspect ratio and find which setting works best for you. (I don't think Samsung TVs have the variable stretch mode).

The next thing you can look at is how the picture gets from the True box to your TV. A standard True box has two choice, composite or Svideo. Composite is the worst choice and most common. If you use the Svideo output you will get a big picture improvement. The Svideo cable is round with 5 pins. You can buy a suitable cable in most shops that sell TVs.

If you have a True Visions DVR you can use the component output of the box to your TV and get an even bigger improvement. Component cables have 3 connectors at each end usually colored blue red and green.

Pioneer make the best Plasma screens by far and they handle poor broadcast quality the best. I have a 50 inch Pioneer Plasma, in variable stretch mode connected by component cable to a True DVR. While I would not describe the picture as stunning it is acceptable and by far the best True Visions picture I have ever seen on a screen that size.

[media]

Ok Its sortred now. I have to say that NumChai service is superb. they didnt even blink an eye when i said i want to change. they let me choose another 1 and said they would be over in 2 hours to swap it. they turned up and put the 50" back in the box carried it all downstairs and brought the new 40" LCD one up. its much better. much clearer on UBC. so now im a happy chap. problem sorted the 40" one still looks nice and is big enough for this room.

Numchai didnt charge me a penny to swap or any delivery money or anything.

For the DVD player its connected with a HDMI cable, I compared the picture using the old Phono cables.. it really does make a lot of difference. more detail.

Thanks everyone for your comments. the bottom line of this story is dont buy a samsung plasma 50" if you mainly watch UBC. get a 40" LCD

Edited July 15, 2009 by media

[LivinLOS]

One thing's for sure, the UBC True Visions signal is shit, best watched on a 28" CRT. The only thing I watch is sports and there are horrible artifacts all over the screen. Football looks like a video game (worse, actually) when zoomed out. If I watch Tennis, I can often not see the ball. The artifacts are not upscaling artifacts, they are compression artifacts and they come from True cramming too many channels on the signal. They basically do not care about image quality in the least. Of course a few years back you'd see the artifacts only on really expensive large CRTs so maybe that explains it. But these days, you can see them on any modern LCD or plasma.

I don't think these are upscaling issues -the issue is that the source is very bad, and if you have a very sharp display you can see all the errors. If you have an old CRT you don't see these things.

I guess there are better and worse brands for upscaling, but IMO all of the later models seem to do a pretty good job. Might want to check and see if your analogue cables are good... the ones that connect the UBC box to the TV.

I am hoping they'll offer HD channels soon, then all that should go away. The programming I watch is all available in HD, e.g. live sports events.

PS: Maybe explain what you mean by stretching. If you mean it's stretched too much horizontally (all people look fat, even the ones that aren't) or vertically (long faces), then you can just change the aspect ratio on your TV. 4:3 is what UBC is broadcasting for the most part - but not always.

The source is bad.. But theres something you can do to clean it up if your prepared to do the time and energy..

For example most people are connected via a UBC box with (urg !!) composite connector.. Some might have a box with s-vid connected.. How many have gone out and bought a sat box that can output component to the TV.. they spend 10's of 1000's on the display and zero on the source then they blame the signal.

If you capture the actual MPEG data stream in the digital domain, and scale that signal again in the digital domain using ffdshow filters, with the final connection being DVI or HDMI the results are night and day.. If I switch between my PC hidef upscaled output and my lowdef component output it looks like 2 totally different signals, and that lowdef component is probably head and shoulders above what 99% of the people watch.

Edited July 15, 2009 by LivinLOS

[LivinLOS]

Ok Its sortred now. I have to say that NumChai service is superb. they didnt even blink an eye when i said i want to change. they let me choose another 1 and said they would be over in 2 hours to swap it. they turned up and put the 50" back in the box carried it all downstairs and brought the new 40" LCD one up. its much better. much clearer on UBC. so now im a happy chap. problem sorted the 40" one still looks nice and is big enough for this room.

Numchai didnt charge me a penny to swap or any delivery money or anything.

For the DVD player its connected with a HDMI cable, I compared the picture using the old Phono cables.. it really does make a lot of difference. more detail.

Thanks everyone for your comments. the bottom line of this story is dont buy a samsung plasma 50" if you mainly watch UBC. get a 40" LCD

And did you get the refund in price difference from 50 to 40 downgrade ??

[nikster]

The source is bad.. But theres something you can do to clean it up if your prepared to do the time and energy..

For example most people are connected via a UBC box with (urg !!) composite connector.. Some might have a box with s-vid connected.. How many have gone out and bought a sat box that can output component to the TV.. they spend 10's of 1000's on the display and zero on the source then they blame the signal.

If you capture the actual MPEG data stream in the digital domain, and scale that signal again in the digital domain using ffdshow filters, with the final connection being DVI or HDMI the results are night and day.. If I switch between my PC hidef upscaled output and my lowdef component output it looks like 2 totally different signals, and that lowdef component is probably head and shoulders above what 99% of the people watch.

That's interesting. Come to think of it, I might have the cheapest possible composite cables as well. My DVD is connected with high end component cables and the picture is excellent. I figured the UBC signal is so bad it doesn't really matter - but I now realize that might not be true.

Would a dreambox help the signal? E.g. are there ones that can upscale on the digital path? Would be nice for occasionally recording to HD too. HTPCs scare me, I don't want yet another box, and my past experience with PCs as TVs was so bad I never want to do that again. Though now they at least make Atom based mini PCs that might work in our living room in terms of size/noise. Thinking of that Mac-mini-sized Acer.

[Digitalbanana]

Numchai didnt charge me a penny to swap or any delivery money or anything.

But you didn't say if they refunded you the downgrade price?

I had a similar issue at a Sony dealer in Bangkok 3 yrs ago. They were trying to sell me a 42inc LCD screen and I said show me UBC (now True Visions) TV on it. They said sorry no can do, as the DVD pic looks so much better in the shop. After a lot of hassle they finally plugged into UBC and I saw a crap picture that was only worth looking at standing further back that the dimensions of my intended room would not have allowed. I opted for a 32inch in the end. The UBC still looks crap on some channels even today, but torrent downloads are fairly good. I don't think my next TV will be bigger than 42inch.

Edited July 16, 2009 by Digitalbanana

[sorensen]

Ok Its sortred now. I have to say that NumChai service is superb. they didnt even blink an eye when i said i want to change. they let me choose another 1 and said they would be over in 2 hours to swap it. they turned up and put the 50" back in the box carried it all downstairs and brought the new 40" LCD one up. its much better. much clearer on UBC. so now im a happy chap. problem sorted the 40" one still looks nice and is big enough for this room.

Numchai didnt charge me a penny to swap or any delivery money or anything.

For the DVD player its connected with a HDMI cable, I compared the picture using the old Phono cables.. it really does make a lot of difference. more detail.

Thanks everyone for your comments. the bottom line of this story is dont buy a samsung plasma 50" if you mainly watch UBC. get a 40" LCD

I don't agree what that at all. I use a 50" Pioneer with UBC and it is crystal clear. Just use the S-video signal from the UBC box and make sure the signal strangth is good (-/+ 250).

Robert

[Hssl]

Media you never stated what output you were using from the ubc box. Still with your swapped LCD try and use the Svideo - 200 baht cable if you know where to buy and a vast improvement over composite.

Using composite with a modern LCD/Plasma TV is kinda of like plugging in an old wax cylinder and expecting it to sound like a CD

[Benjie]

I don't agree what that at all. I use a 50" Pioneer with UBC and it is crystal clear. Just use the S-video signal from the UBC box and make sure the signal strangth is good (-/+ 250).

Robert

How can it be crystal clear with all the macroblocking, never mind the resolution thats 1/2 to 1/4 that of your TV's.

It may be acceptable, but crystal clear is not a phrase I've ever heard about UBC.

[sorensen]

I don't agree what that at all. I use a 50" Pioneer with UBC and it is crystal clear. Just use the S-video signal from the UBC box and make sure the signal strangth is good (-/+ 250).

Robert

How can it be crystal clear with all the macroblocking, never mind the resolution thats 1/2 to 1/4 that of your TV's.

It may be acceptable, but crystal clear is not a phrase I've ever heard about UBC.

It is a very sharp and clear picture. I agree it is not as good as DVD quality, but it is close.

[joncl]

Part of the problem is that True Visions broadcasts at 544 x 576 and at very low data rates produce sub par pictures.

All except for channel RS100 which is in 1920x1080 HD with the SD version playing on channels RS101 but the current truevisions decoders will not be able to watch this channel (RS100) where many 3rd party boxes do.

[media]

Numchai didnt charge me a penny to swap or any delivery money or anything.

But you didn't say if they refunded you the downgrade price?

I had a similar issue at a Sony dealer in Bangkok 3 yrs ago. They were trying to sell me a 42inc LCD screen and I said show me UBC (now True Visions) TV on it. They said sorry no can do, as the DVD pic looks so much better in the shop. After a lot of hassle they finally plugged into UBC and I saw a crap picture that was only worth looking at standing further back that the dimensions of my intended room would not have allowed. I opted for a 32inch in the end. The UBC still looks crap on some channels even today, but torrent downloads are fairly good. I don't think my next TV will be bigger than 42inch.

REPLY: Sorry The replacement was the same price, there was no refund needed. it was a smaller screen but was an upgrade from plasma to LCD and a newer model. series 6.

39.999thb, if you purchased it 3 months ago it was priced at 79.999

[goonerthegooner]

Ok Its sortred now. I have to say that NumChai service is superb. they didnt even blink an eye when i said i want to change. they let me choose another 1 and said they would be over in 2 hours to swap it. they turned up and put the 50" back in the box carried it all downstairs and brought the new 40" LCD one up. its much better. much clearer on UBC. so now im a happy chap. problem sorted the 40" one still looks nice and is big enough for this room.

Numchai didnt charge me a penny to swap or any delivery money or anything.

For the DVD player its connected with a HDMI cable, I compared the picture using the old Phono cables.. it really does make a lot of difference. more detail.

Thanks everyone for your comments. the bottom line of this story is dont buy a samsung plasma 50" if you mainly watch UBC. get a 40" LCD

Who or what is Numchai??,where are they based??.

[torrenova]

Who or what is Numchai??,where are they based??.

Google is your friend

http://www.numchai.com/ecomm/store/

[TopDogger]

I don't agree what that at all. I use a 50" Pioneer with UBC and it is crystal clear. Just use the S-video signal from the UBC box and make sure the signal strangth is good (-/+ 250).

Robert

How can it be crystal clear with all the macroblocking, never mind the resolution thats 1/2 to 1/4 that of your TV's.

It may be acceptable, but crystal clear is not a phrase I've ever heard about UBC.

It is a very sharp and clear picture. I agree it is not as good as DVD quality, but it is close.

I have a 55" LED TV and it looks fine also. It's UBC so as expected its no where near as good as DVD or downloaded HD movies but it's not blurry as some people have reported.

It would also depend on how close your sitting to the TV and how good your eye sight is?..

Edited July 23, 2009 by TopDogger

[MarkBKK]

UBC is a digital satellite service, not analogue as stated in the OP. However, this doesn't necessarily mean excellent picture quality because some providers, including Truevisions, reduce the picture resolution to fit more channels on to each satellite transponder (cheaper for them). I don't know about UBC but many UK Sky Channels have a resolution of 544 x 576i, which is not as good as Terrestrial digital with 704 x 576i. The video bitrates used by satellite channels are typically in the 2-3Mbps range, which is quite a bit less than the 6Mbps-8Mbps of commercial DVD. Like most, UBC are still using MPEG-2 and the picture will improve when they change to the newer MPEG-4.

Still delivered to some TrueVisons customers as an analogue signal (until September, or the end of the year, depending who you talk to). And of course, it can depend a lot on who has done the MPEG2 encoding.

[Smile4u]

Can someone please explain: what was the bottleneck ?

Resolution ?

Brightness cd/m2 ?

Contrast ratio ?

refresh rate 100/200/600Hz?

or simply the screen size?

What TV spesifications will be "safe" when watching (Ubc) True vision?