Thaksin: Pheu Thai-democrat Coalition 'possible'

[webfact]

Pheu Thai-Democrat coalition 'possible': Thaksin

By The Nation

Published on July 18, 2009

Ousted prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra will not rule out the possibility of his party and the rival Democrats forming a government together if that is what the country needs.

"For the sake of the country and to enhance reconciliation, it would be possible to join hands in a short period of time even though ideologically we follow different path," the de-facto leader of the Pheu Thai Party said.

Thaksin was responding to media questions conveyed by Pheu Thai MP Surapong Towijakchaikul, who visited Thaksin in Dubai early this week to wish him a happy birthday.

Thaksin turns 60 on July 26.

Asked which he would choose upon returning to the country, a fight to the death or a compromise, Thaksin replied he would fight for justice.

"I've vowed to continue my search for justice as a spirit if I die. In fact, I am dying to return to the country to receive justice and not be bullied," he said.

Asked what he would say to His Majesty the King if he were granted a royal audience, the fugitive ex-premier said he would say he loved, cared about and would willingly work for the country and the monarchy.

He said he did not want anyone else in his family to run the Pheu Thai Party or enter politics regardless of what happened to him.

Thaksin said he divorced his wife, Pojaman last year because of politics.

"I relish political fights, but she does not like politics, so we had to break up. But we remain close and care about each other," he said.

Thaksin also cancelled his birthday party due to business engagements and urged his well-wishers not to travel to Dubai to throw him one, his legal adviser, Noppadon Pattama, said yesterday.

Thaksin had scheduled a party for July 26, and several Pheu Thai MPs were interested in travelling to Dubai for it.

-- The Nation 2009/07/18

[mc2]

sounds good,

it will probably see the PAD party and newin isolated.

my only concern is a coup in response.

[rixalex]

sounds good,

it will probably see the PAD party and newin isolated.

my only concern is a coup in response.

That's your only concern???!! What about ditching all your principles?

One minute it's all about how terrible the Democrats are, the next it's "oh yes, we could jump into bed with them if it helps save our skins it's for the good of the country.

Who buys this crap?

[Insight]

More PR BS. Wake up, The Nation!

[webfact]

SMA = Save my ar5e

thats what he want!

[mc2]

sounds good,

it will probably see the PAD party and newin isolated.

my only concern is a coup in response.

That's your only concern???!! What about ditching all your principles?

One minute it's all about how terrible the Democrats are, the next it's "oh yes, we could jump into bed with them if it helps save our skins it's for the good of the country.

Who buys this crap?

my main objection to the democrat party is that it came to power in dubious conditions and that i think they should have called for new elections a long time ago.

lets face it, the current coalition gov isn't holding together for the good of the country, it is because they fear thaksin getting back into power.

anyhow, i think it is something at least worth considering for the democrats.

surely it would be better than having newin as a partner.

[hammered]

I remember saying a government of national unity should be tried about 2 years ago (I may be exaggerating). Im not sure it can happen now with the divide having worsened though.

Never rule it out on the other hand.

It is also another PR move of course.

There are also court cases around that could leave the senate inquorate, rip the government majority to shreds, disallow Loads of MPs of both sides and not to mention disolve every party in parliament.

[Samuian]

Asked what he would say to His Majesty the King if he were granted a royal audience, the fugitive ex-premier said he would say he loved, cared about and would willingly work for the country and the monarchy.

Yes, the soap opera to be continued..see you tomorrow!

[timekeeper]

Pheu Thai-Democrat coalition 'possible': Thaksin

By The Nation

Published on July 18, 2009

Ousted prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra will not rule out the possibility of his party and the rival Democrats forming a government together if that is what the country needs.

"For the sake of the country and to enhance reconciliation, it would be possible to join hands in a short period of time even though ideologically we follow different path," the de-facto leader of the Pheu Thai Party said.

Thaksin was responding to media questions conveyed by Pheu Thai MP Surapong Towijakchaikul, who visited Thaksin in Dubai early this week to wish him a happy birthday.

Thaksin turns 60 on July 26.

Asked which he would choose upon returning to the country, a fight to the death or a compromise, Thaksin replied he would fight for justice.

"I've vowed to continue my search for justice as a spirit if I die. In fact, I am dying to return to the country to receive justice and not be bullied," he said.

Asked what he would say to His Majesty the King if he were granted a royal audience, the fugitive ex-premier said he would say he loved, cared about and would willingly work for the country and the monarchy.

He said he did not want anyone else in his family to run the Pheu Thai Party or enter politics regardless of what happened to him.

Thaksin said he divorced his wife, Pojaman last year because of politics.

"I relish political fights, but she does not like politics, so we had to break up. But we remain close and care about each other," he said.

Thaksin also cancelled his birthday party due to business engagements and urged his well-wishers not to travel to Dubai to throw him one, his legal adviser, Noppadon Pattama, said yesterday.

Thaksin had scheduled a party for July 26, and several Pheu Thai MPs were interested in travelling to Dubai for it.

-- The Nation 2009/07/18

how low will this man sink ?

sacrificing his own and his followers principles to get back in power

how can anyone trust him?

[Sandstone Art]

Pheu Thai-Democrat coalition 'possible': Thaksin

By The Nation

Published on July 18, 2009

Ousted prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra will not rule out the possibility of his party and the rival Democrats forming a government together if that is what the country needs.

"For the sake of the country and to enhance reconciliation, it would be possible to join hands in a short period of time even though ideologically we follow different path," the de-facto leader of the Pheu Thai Party said.

Thaksin was responding to media questions conveyed by Pheu Thai MP Surapong Towijakchaikul, who visited Thaksin in Dubai early this week to wish him a happy birthday.

Thaksin turns 60 on July 26.

Asked which he would choose upon returning to the country, a fight to the death or a compromise, Thaksin replied he would fight for justice.

"I've vowed to continue my search for justice as a spirit if I die. In fact, I am dying to return to the country to receive justice and not be bullied," he said.

Asked what he would say to His Majesty the King if he were granted a royal audience, the fugitive ex-premier said he would say he loved, cared about and would willingly work for the country and the monarchy.

He said he did not want anyone else in his family to run the Pheu Thai Party or enter politics regardless of what happened to him.

Thaksin said he divorced his wife, Pojaman last year because of politics.

"I relish political fights, but she does not like politics, so we had to break up. But we remain close and care about each other," he said.

Thaksin also cancelled his birthday party due to business engagements and urged his well-wishers not to travel to Dubai to throw him one, his legal adviser, Noppadon Pattama, said yesterday.

Thaksin had scheduled a party for July 26, and several Pheu Thai MPs were interested in travelling to Dubai for it.

-- The Nation 2009/07/18

how low will this man sink ?

sacrificing his own and his followers principles to get back in power

how can anyone trust him?

Unfortunately, there are many reds out there trusting his $$ hand-outs each time they are needed!

[Gary A]

It took a coup to get rid of the last democratically elected government. That coup was planned and carried out by the Thai elite class and NOT by the majority of Thai people. This makes it impossible to have an election. Whatever party Thaksin supports will be elected and that is not acceptable to the powers that be. The fact of the matter is that the Thai people will lose regardless of who controls the government because one side is as bad as the other.

[Insight]

It took a coup to get rid of the last democratically elected government. That coup was planned and carried out by the Thai elite class and NOT by the majority of Thai people. This makes it impossible to have an election. Whatever party Thaksin supports will be elected and that is not acceptable to the powers that be. The fact of the matter is that the Thai people will lose regardless of who controls the government because one side is as bad as the other.

Those tanks were a big draw for locals, tourists and scantily clad female dancers if I recall correctly. Wasn't it referred to as the "flower coup" ?

[ratcatcher]

Asked what he would say to His Majesty the King if he were granted a royal audience, the fugitive ex-premier said he would say he loved, cared about and would willingly work for the country and the monarchy.

Yes, the soap opera to be continued..see you tomorrow!

So do more than 50 million other Thais who love the King, work hard for and love the country.

All he cares about is his money.

More swill from a man getting more desperate for attention as the months pass.

[rixalex]

Whatever party Thaksin supports will be elected and that is not acceptable to the powers that be.

Whatever party Thaksin supports will be the party that white-washes him of all crimes, should they get in power. You might be able to accept that, some Thai people may be able to accept that, but there are a lot of other people who have a belief in justice that don't find that acceptable.

[hammered]

Interesting stuff from Thaksin and camp PTP.

Offer the Dems a coalition

In one report Thaksin is quoted as saying something along the lines of "I would do whatever the person who brought me home wanted including no tre-enetering poltics"

PTP while stating their MPs would not resign if if the EC decided against them in the shareholding case, went otu of their way to stress they understood Suthep's hurt but he should stay strong!

Thaksin's birthday party is cancelled

There is some play going on and clearly there is division between the Dems and their more shadowy supporters.

[rixalex]

In one report Thaksin is quoted as saying something along the lines of "I would do whatever the person who brought me home wanted including no tre-enetering poltics"

And as we all know, he is a man of his word.

[animatic]

Interesting stuff from Thaksin and camp PTP.

Offer the Dems a coalition

In one report Thaksin is quoted as saying something along the lines of "I would do whatever the person who brought me home wanted including no tre-enetering poltics"

PTP while stating their MPs would not resign if if the EC decided against them in the shareholding case, went otu of their way to stress they understood Suthep's hurt but he should stay strong!

Thaksin's birthday party is cancelled

There is some play going on and clearly there is division between the Dems and their more shadowy supporters.

More like a Greek tragedy, chanted by PTP as the chorus.

Better to call them Camp STP (still total prats)

3rd string TRT and showing that scintilating level of competence.

Any port in a storm for Thaksin any idea that MAY either

get him press, and any press is good press,

or get him back in power and cash in hand.

I could say amorality has reached it's zenith, or nadir,

but I doubt that's true yet.

Edited July 18, 2009 by animatic

[Ferwert]

It took a coup to get rid of the last democratically elected government. That coup was planned and carried out by the Thai elite class and NOT by the majority of Thai people. This makes it impossible to have an election. Whatever party Thaksin supports will be elected and that is not acceptable to the powers that be. The fact of the matter is that the Thai people will lose regardless of who controls the government because one side is as bad as the other.

".......one side is as bad as the other" In other words, a pox on all their houses. This approach is one of the cornerstones of the Anti-democracy campaign. If they are successful in demonizing all politicians, and the Election Commission continuing to do this, than an appointive process to select Governors instead of via one-person-one-vote electoral process will be easier to sell. For those who are inclined toward democracy, they should seek to identify those who promote that objective. To suggest that the anti-democracy PAD/New politics crowd is identical to the pro-democracy Red Shirts is ludicrous. To suggest they are both evil, serves the objectives of the anti-democracy forces. I tend to lump those who claim neutrality and try to anoint themselves with unaffiliated credibility as being primarily anti-democratic. I am amazed at how you Farangs coming from Democratic traditions, can embrace anti-democratic POV so easily.

[hammered]

It took a coup to get rid of the last democratically elected government. That coup was planned and carried out by the Thai elite class and NOT by the majority of Thai people. This makes it impossible to have an election. Whatever party Thaksin supports will be elected and that is not acceptable to the powers that be. The fact of the matter is that the Thai people will lose regardless of who controls the government because one side is as bad as the other.

".......one side is as bad as the other" In other words, a pox on all their houses. This approach is one of the cornerstones of the Anti-democracy campaign. If they are successful in demonizing all politicians, and the Election Commission continuing to do this, than an appointive process to select Governors instead of via one-person-one-vote electoral process will be easier to sell. For those who are inclined toward democracy, they should seek to identify those who promote that objective. To suggest that the anti-democracy PAD/New politics crowd is identical to the pro-democracy Red Shirts is ludicrous. To suggest they are both evil, serves the objectives of the anti-democracy forces. I tend to lump those who claim neutrality and try to anoint themselves with unaffiliated credibility as being primarily anti-democratic. I am amazed at how you Farangs coming from Democratic traditions, can embrace anti-democratic POV so easily.

Governors are appointed in Thailand and not elected. There has been little support for this move as it decentralizes power. Oddly enough I think the Democrat party were the only ones to moot the idea some time ago. Thye have probably changed their minds now though. Having provincial governors elected would be a positive move imho.

[Ferwert]

Whatever party Thaksin supports will be elected and that is not acceptable to the powers that be.

Whatever party Thaksin supports will be the party that white-washes him of all crimes, should they get in power. You might be able to accept that, some Thai people may be able to accept that, but there are a lot of other people who have a belief in justice that don't find that acceptable.

"Whatever party Thaksin supports will be the party that white-washes him of all crimes".....It can be said with equal conviction, that "whatever party is threatened by Thaksin will be the party that demonizes him" This is the party/regime currently in power and "there are a lot of people who have a belief in justice" that have been affected by this orchestrated demonization campaign. The Pro-Democracy Red Shirts have as one of their major motto's - "no justice, no peace" It is not only the anti-Thaksin crowd who think they have the judicial high-ground. The pro-democracy Red Shirts don't talk of a "judicial coup" by accident or without foundation.

[Ferwert]

It took a coup to get rid of the last democratically elected government. That coup was planned and carried out by the Thai elite class and NOT by the majority of Thai people. This makes it impossible to have an election. Whatever party Thaksin supports will be elected and that is not acceptable to the powers that be. The fact of the matter is that the Thai people will lose regardless of who controls the government because one side is as bad as the other.

".......one side is as bad as the other" In other words, a pox on all their houses. This approach is one of the cornerstones of the Anti-democracy campaign. If they are successful in demonizing all politicians, and the Election Commission continuing to do this, than an appointive process to select Governors instead of via one-person-one-vote electoral process will be easier to sell. For those who are inclined toward democracy, they should seek to identify those who promote that objective. To suggest that the anti-democracy PAD/New politics crowd is identical to the pro-democracy Red Shirts is ludicrous. To suggest they are both evil, serves the objectives of the anti-democracy forces. I tend to lump those who claim neutrality and try to anoint themselves with unaffiliated credibility as being primarily anti-democratic. I am amazed at how you Farangs coming from Democratic traditions, can embrace anti-democratic POV so easily.

Governors are appointed in Thailand and not elected. There has been little support for this move as it decentralizes power. Oddly enough I think the Democrat party were the only ones to moot the idea some time ago. Thye have probably changed their minds now though. Having provincial governors elected would be a positive move imho.

I am not talking about Provincial Governors. I am referring to a Democracy concept that states the "Governments of any country need to be selected by the Governed" not appointed for them.

[hammered]

It took a coup to get rid of the last democratically elected government. That coup was planned and carried out by the Thai elite class and NOT by the majority of Thai people. This makes it impossible to have an election. Whatever party Thaksin supports will be elected and that is not acceptable to the powers that be. The fact of the matter is that the Thai people will lose regardless of who controls the government because one side is as bad as the other.

".......one side is as bad as the other" In other words, a pox on all their houses. This approach is one of the cornerstones of the Anti-democracy campaign. If they are successful in demonizing all politicians, and the Election Commission continuing to do this, than an appointive process to select Governors instead of via one-person-one-vote electoral process will be easier to sell. For those who are inclined toward democracy, they should seek to identify those who promote that objective. To suggest that the anti-democracy PAD/New politics crowd is identical to the pro-democracy Red Shirts is ludicrous. To suggest they are both evil, serves the objectives of the anti-democracy forces. I tend to lump those who claim neutrality and try to anoint themselves with unaffiliated credibility as being primarily anti-democratic. I am amazed at how you Farangs coming from Democratic traditions, can embrace anti-democratic POV so easily.

Governors are appointed in Thailand and not elected. There has been little support for this move as it decentralizes power. Oddly enough I think the Democrat party were the only ones to moot the idea some time ago. Thye have probably changed their minds now though. Having provincial governors elected would be a positive move imho.

I am not talking about Provincial Governors. I am referring to a Democracy concept that states the "Governments of any country need to be selected by the Governed" not appointed for them.

Well that bit goes without saying in democracy although I would suggest that provincial governors with their power are part of the governing body and should also be elected. They fit in below central government but above the PAO, TAO local government level. Every country has government at various levels and in a democracy these should all be elected.

[animatic]

One does not need to actively demonize MOST polititcians,

they do that so efficiently themselves. My dislike of Thaksin is

from his own words and actions, not some pundit's over wrought

interpretations of same. His own quotes are enough a stake

through his heart to suffice.

Two elements that have recently held the worst elements in check are:

The enforcement of election laws and the banning of party leaders.

While not 100% effective, see: Thaksin and Newin, it has put a

crimp in their chronic gerrymandering plans, to the benefit of all.

Next is the enforcement of anti-Conflict Of Interest laws.

Most recently implemented against some Senators, MPs

and the biggest fish Suthep. Narrow interpretations are needed.

Even to the level of what befell Samak, before he lied in court on top of it.

Levels the field a bit towards the well spoken, but less well heeled or connected.

If that were implemented to include cabinet members

and senior bureaucrats like Visit, then real progress could be made.

But really best down to the Kamnan level so it is seen in villages,

and not just in the news.

This is not with the intention of making things appointment driven,

but cleaning out those not bright enough, or too avaricious, NOT to contravene the laws.

Breaking small laws is an indication of willingness to break big ones, given opportunity...

It also likely cleans out political machine's bad habits, and that is the greatest evil in the land.

And the apparent reason d'etre of PTP by their OWN pronouncements.

Thus allowing space for good people to come in based more on meritocracy

than on clan based allegiance's.

What some call Judicial Coup, others can easily call the new found will to enforce statues.

'National Reconciliation' coupled with 'Constitutional Reforms' loosening those laws,

has become code for letting the political machines back in the game; 111 banned TRT etc.

and a return to the old ways, but under the subverted guise of Democracy.

If we hypothetically;

remove Thaksin and his street manipulation from the equation, forget a coup happened,

these changes and enforcements stand on their own merits.

It's a passion play of greed on display and the powerful worshiping Thais seem to eat this up,

like a soap opera, so far removed from most lives they just root for the big guy.

It's hard to remove the kow tow ethics from a whole culture where that same code is

ancient tradition, and re-enforced by what they see and hear down to the grass roots level.

63 million little culture wars happening daily and it's S.O.P. to try and raise each person a notch

in the pecking order by grabbing the coattails of those above. Or demoting for disloyalty too.

Ferwert, how you expect to get past this BASIC cultural stumbling block?

Edited July 18, 2009 by animatic

[Chunkton]

sounds good,

it will probably see the PAD party and newin isolated.

my only concern is a coup in response.

That's your only concern???!! What about ditching all your principles?

One minute it's all about how terrible the Democrats are, the next it's "oh yes, we could jump into bed with them if it helps save our skins it's for the good of the country.

Who buys this crap?

If you are referring to buying, or even worse actually believing the Nation, there sadly does seem to be no lack of the brain dead. But in all fairness your acerbic vitriol about the Nation really could apply to many foreign mis-labelled "news services" as well, FOX NEWS of course instantly comes to mind as a stand out "food for the feint of thinking".

Cheers...

[Chunkton]

One does not need to actively demonize MOST polititcians,

they do that so efficiently themselves. My dislike of Thaksin is

from his own words and actions, not some pundit's over wrought

interpretations of same. His own quotes are enough a stake

through his heart to suffice.

Two elements that have recently held the worst elements in check are:

The enforcement of election laws and the banning of party leaders.

While not 100% effective, see: Thaksin and Newin, it has put a

crimp in their chronic gerrymandering plans, to the benefit of all.

Next is the enforcement of anti-Conflict Of Interest laws.

Most recently implemented against some Senators, MPs

and the biggest fish Suthep. Narrow interpretations are needed.

Even to the level of what befell Samak, before he lied in court on top of it.

Levels the field a bit towards the well spoken, but less well heeled or connected.

If that were implemented to include cabinet members

and senior bureaucrats like Visit, then real progress could be made.

But really best down to the Kamnan level so it is seen in villages,

and not just in the news.

This is not with the intention of making things appointment driven,

but cleaning out those not bright enough, or too avaricious, NOT to contravene the laws.

Breaking small laws is an indication of willingness to break big ones, given opportunity...

It also likely cleans out political machine's bad habits, and that is the greatest evil in the land.

And the apparent reason d'etre of PTP by their OWN pronouncements.

Thus allowing space for good people to come in based more on meritocracy

than on clan based allegiance's.

What some call Judicial Coup, others can easily call the new found will to enforce statues.

'National Reconciliation' coupled with 'Constitutional Reforms' loosening those laws,

has become code for letting the political machines back in the game; 111 banned TRT etc.

and a return to the old ways, but under the subverted guise of Democracy.

If we hypothetically;

remove Thaksin and his street manipulation from the equation, forget a coup happened,

these changes and enforcements stand on their own merits.

It's a passion play of greed on display and the powerful worshiping Thais seem to eat this up,

like a soap opera, so far removed from most lives they just root for the big guy.

It's hard to remove the kow tow ethics from a whole culture where that same code is

ancient tradition, and re-enforced by what they see and hear down to the grass roots level.

63 million little culture wars happening daily and it's S.O.P. to try and raise each person a notch

in the pecking order by grabbing the coattails of those above. Or demoting for disloyalty too.

Ferwert, how you expect to get past this BASIC cultural stumbling block?

Animatic, at a young age I recognized politicians for what they are, parasites intent on enriching themselves at the expense of society. The country doesn't matter, they are all the same, a blight on humanity. As such all the vitriol about Taksin confuses me as he did exactly as one would expect him to do, and quite frankly there are worse examples out there, and even in our home countries.

Sadly the underside of democracy is that politicians do what is required to (in their minds) be re-elected. Often this is not what the country actually needs though, particularly with interest groups (voting blocks) all with their hands out. That sadly is the payoff to keep dictators at bay, namely rotating them out of office every so many years.

[animatic]

One does not need to actively demonize MOST polititcians,

they do that so efficiently themselves. My dislike of Thaksin is

from his own words and actions, not some pundit's over wrought

interpretations of same. His own quotes are enough a stake

through his heart to suffice.

Two elements that have recently held the worst elements in check are:

The enforcement of election laws and the banning of party leaders.

While not 100% effective, see: Thaksin and Newin, it has put a

crimp in their chronic gerrymandering plans, to the benefit of all.

Next is the enforcement of anti-Conflict Of Interest laws.

Most recently implemented against some Senators, MPs

and the biggest fish Suthep. Narrow interpretations are needed.

Even to the level of what befell Samak, before he lied in court on top of it.

Levels the field a bit towards the well spoken, but less well heeled or connected.

If that were implemented to include cabinet members

and senior bureaucrats like Visit, then real progress could be made.

But really best down to the Kamnan level so it is seen in villages,

and not just in the news.

This is not with the intention of making things appointment driven,

but cleaning out those not bright enough, or too avaricious, NOT to contravene the laws.

Breaking small laws is an indication of willingness to break big ones, given opportunity...

It also likely cleans out political machine's bad habits, and that is the greatest evil in the land.

And the apparent reason d'etre of PTP by their OWN pronouncements.

Thus allowing space for good people to come in based more on meritocracy

than on clan based allegiance's.

What some call Judicial Coup, others can easily call the new found will to enforce statues.

'National Reconciliation' coupled with 'Constitutional Reforms' loosening those laws,

has become code for letting the political machines back in the game; 111 banned TRT etc.

and a return to the old ways, but under the subverted guise of Democracy.

If we hypothetically;

remove Thaksin and his street manipulation from the equation, forget a coup happened,

these changes and enforcements stand on their own merits.

It's a passion play of greed on display and the powerful worshiping Thais seem to eat this up,

like a soap opera, so far removed from most lives they just root for the big guy.

It's hard to remove the kow tow ethics from a whole culture where that same code is

ancient tradition, and re-enforced by what they see and hear down to the grass roots level.

63 million little culture wars happening daily and it's S.O.P. to try and raise each person a notch

in the pecking order by grabbing the coattails of those above. Or demoting for disloyalty too.

Ferwert, how you expect to get past this BASIC cultural stumbling block?

Animatic, at a young age I recognized politicians for what they are, parasites intent on enriching themselves at the expense of society. The country doesn't matter, they are all the same, a blight on humanity. As such all the vitriol about Taksin confuses me as he did exactly as one would expect him to do, and quite frankly there are worse examples out there, and even in our home countries.

Sadly the underside of democracy is that politicians do what is required to (in their minds) be re-elected. Often this is not what the country actually needs though, particularly with interest groups (voting blocks) all with their hands out. That sadly is the payoff to keep dictators at bay, namely rotating them out of office every so many years.

Uh... well not all.

My mother was a politician and NEVER profited a cent from it.

She did it for the good of the community. Gave her pay to a nursing association.

She even paid her way internationally to go to sister city birthdays and the like.

In the process she met many national figures, political and media, and was often

placed next to them at meetings so common sense could be spoken directly.

I won't list the national figures, but you likely have heard of several.

I will say that Walter Cronkite was one.

She was elected by 2 to 1 first try and re-elected twice with higher percentages each time.

And retired at her choice.

[Ferwert]

One does not need to actively demonize MOST polititcians,

they do that so efficiently themselves. My dislike of Thaksin is

from his own words and actions, not some pundit's over wrought

interpretations of same. His own quotes are enough a stake

through his heart to suffice.

Two elements that have recently held the worst elements in check are:

The enforcement of election laws and the banning of party leaders.

While not 100% effective, see: Thaksin and Newin, it has put a

crimp in their chronic gerrymandering plans, to the benefit of all.

Next is the enforcement of anti-Conflict Of Interest laws.

Most recently implemented against some Senators, MPs

and the biggest fish Suthep. Narrow interpretations are needed.

Even to the level of what befell Samak, before he lied in court on top of it.

Levels the field a bit towards the well spoken, but less well heeled or connected.

If that were implemented to include cabinet members

and senior bureaucrats like Visit, then real progress could be made.

But really best down to the Kamnan level so it is seen in villages,

and not just in the news.

This is not with the intention of making things appointment driven,

but cleaning out those not bright enough, or too avaricious, NOT to contravene the laws.

Breaking small laws is an indication of willingness to break big ones, given opportunity...

It also likely cleans out political machine's bad habits, and that is the greatest evil in the land.

And the apparent reason d'etre of PTP by their OWN pronouncements.

Thus allowing space for good people to come in based more on meritocracy

than on clan based allegiance's.

What some call Judicial Coup, others can easily call the new found will to enforce statues.

'National Reconciliation' coupled with 'Constitutional Reforms' loosening those laws,

has become code for letting the political machines back in the game; 111 banned TRT etc.

and a return to the old ways, but under the subverted guise of Democracy.

If we hypothetically;

remove Thaksin and his street manipulation from the equation, forget a coup happened,

these changes and enforcements stand on their own merits.

It's a passion play of greed on display and the powerful worshiping Thais seem to eat this up,

like a soap opera, so far removed from most lives they just root for the big guy.

It's hard to remove the kow tow ethics from a whole culture where that same code is

ancient tradition, and re-enforced by what they see and hear down to the grass roots level.

63 million little culture wars happening daily and it's S.O.P. to try and raise each person a notch

in the pecking order by grabbing the coattails of those above. Or demoting for disloyalty too.

Ferwert, how you expect to get past this BASIC cultural stumbling block?

"How I expect to get past this BASIC cultural stumbling blocks" I could address each one of these "stumbling blocks" you reference in your well thought out and insightfull Post. To get to the quick, "focus on the solutions but retain one-person-one-vote electoral democracy" Electoral Democracy ought to be considered sacrosanct, a basic "human right" and not open to discussion. In other words, "don't throw the baby out with the bathwater". The anti-democratic crowd would have you believe that these problems cannot be solved within an electoral based system. I dont agree with that. It is my firm belief that it is a matter of 'will', and not intractable problems. The anti-democratic systems come with their own problems, but will serve a minority's interests to the detriment of the majority. I could go on and on in this vein, but I think you get the essence of my POV.

[rixalex]

Wow, the English media certainly is having its' way with you. In all fairness, I understand. With no counterweight to their agenda, and being bombarded with it every day because no alternative English language media is available, one could expect nothing else.

When are you going to give it a rest and stop trotting out this nonsense?

Most intelligent people weren't swayed in the slightest by the media propoganda campaign that Thaksin undertook when he was in power, and they aren't swayed any bias that exists in the media now.

[Publicus]

Indeed.

Moreover, the English media were anti-Thaksin before there was a Thaksin.

I remember Thailand from before there was a Thaksin and the TRT. IMHO and from my point of view it was a much better Thailand than Thaksin's Thailand.

During ten years in Thailand one should be able to learn at least a few things beyond representations made by various media, or any common point of view amongst certain media. It also helps to have a Master degree in Journalism and experience in Journalism (even if it is in one's own country).

I prefer to discuss the issues, thank you.

Edited July 19, 2009 by Publicus