Nuclear Power Plant For Chonburi

[nakachalet]

soutpeel, pls have no fear.... lol

may i assure you, i am neither a head hunter nor a bureaucrat looking for ways to enrich myself or to entrap you or anyone else.

it just so happened that i was working and researching in the states as the three mile island nuclear power plant became an enormous concern, and serious issues were raised in the senate chamber. testimonies after testimonies from credentialised scientists and experts from company that operated the plant testifying that:

the physical plant construction was perfect, the nuclear power plant as a whole was practically indestructible--exactly like the thai official proclaimed in the advert video. it was constructed beyond basic structural requirements. all the testifying scientists and experts concluded that it was the human error, human oversight, human fallability that caused the radioactive rods to overheat.... culminating in almost-a-total-meltdown in america....

many graduate students still want to find out, after so many years, why the senate refuses to allow the three mile island nuclear power plant to be retrofited and reactivated.... even though the nation is screaming for additional energy sources....

general comment from the senate committee members was that.... as a nation we were very fortunate once--to have escaped practically unscratched from total destruction.... we'll not allow the slightest possibility of the second time.... and several times, the question of decommissioning the site was also brought up.... the cost would be prohibitive and

especially those morally responsible senators wanted to know--under which states' mountain ranges could the spent radioactive rods be stored? because each has a half-life of about 150 years (?) which means each could cause human destruction for that long period of time.... frightening !

the state of utah refused to be considered as a possible storage site. even though billions was promised as aids.

subsequently, the states of colorado, utah and nevada even refused to allow the specially constructed and designed convey to be even driven throgh their highways for fear that one in a million chance, one of the stainless steel containers would leak the radioactive isotopes, the orange illuminating liquid on their freeway endangering the life and safety of the people....

yes, at that time, washington was then persistent too, the conveys were already rolling.... (for the benefits of those who were too young to witness all these).... "smokeys" (referenced to states troopers/highway police officers) were summoned and they showed up at their borders with their lights blazing.... they too take the personal responsibility to protech their own states and their own people from possible nuclear contamination....

at the time, it was very scary, for me at least.... the states were going to war with the govt so as to protect their states and their citizens. each governor was threatened with obstruction of justice.... which never came to pass....

bravo for the states and their people. washington finally backed down.... convoys were recalled.

as stated i am neither a headhunter nor bureaucrat. but as a human being currently being very grateful for the opportunity of being allowed to be living in thailand and feeding off its rich and abundant resources, i am naturally becoming extremely concerned for this country's welfare and safety....

i am also open to contrary opinion as well....

so.... soutpeel et al, you are welcome to rebut, ok?

should nuclear power generator plants be built in thailand?

you all are welcome to express your personal opinion at [email protected]

whatever your personal opinion is, after recording as FOR or AGAINST or NEUTRAL, it will be totally deleted from the hard drive itself. the result will be tabulated on august 1, 2009. so have no fear.

[Soutpeel]

All the testifying scientists and experts concluded that it was the human error, human oversight, human fallability that caused the radioactive rods to overheat

especially those morally responsible senators wanted to know--under which states' mountain ranges could the spent radioactive rods be stored? because each has a half-life of about 150 years (?) which means each could cause human destruction for that long period of time.... frightening !

for fear that one in a million chance, one of the stainless steel containers would leak the radioactive isotopes, the orange illuminating liquid

Nakachalet,

Guess I owe you an apology then...??...

Just to pick up on a couple of your points:

Human error, oversight, incompetance causing both Three mile Island and Chennoble...Yes... most certainly....it wasnt the equipment or design that caused both these accidents....it was the people pushing the buttons, or not pushing the buttons as the case maybe....

Every time a aircraft goes down, and pilot error is the root cause, is there an outcry to ban air travel ?, No, because it is accepted that planes will and do occasionally fall out the sky.

Most people accept this risk when they get on a plane. I would suggest that an average person has a greater probability of being in an airplane which falls out the sky, than being being irradiated to death by a nuclear power plant. Granted the conseuquences of a nuclear accident are possibly higher, depends on what the accident is..

On the subsequent paragraphs, there appears to be lot of misunderstanding, confusion or even mis-information in the quotes you have used (not saying you misunderstand, but source of this misunderstands) for example:

Spent fuel rods are not stored under any mountains anywhere in the world, they are held in the fuel pool of the power plant until such time as there are enough to send to another facility for reprocessing (yes the nuclear game re-cycles).

The materials stored under mountains, in mine shafts etc are what is called low level waste...ie concrete drums of contaminated overalls, tools etc etc. Generally over the life of a facility, the amount of low level waste is equal to the area of a football field (soccer field, for our colonial cousins.. )

As regards the "illuminating orange liquid"....what illuminating orange liquid ??...the only illuminating liquid I ever saw in my years in the nuclear game was in the reactor/fuel pool water during the operation where the neutron radiation emitted by the process "hits" the water and energy level is reduced to beta radiation, which gives off a "electrical blue" colour...

It may sound by reading all this I am pro-nuclear and trying to defend the business, in reality, I dont care either way, as long as when I throw a light switch a light comes on, I dont really care which way we get our power....so suppose you could say I have a neutral opinion on whether Thai goes commerical nuclear..

[doctormann]

to soutpeel and doctormann

i find some of your statements in regard to neuclear power plants construction in thailand very unsettling.

would you both gentlemen care to enlighten everyone reading this forum

by giving us your

1--academic training and background,

2--professional qualifications and

3--actual professional experiences within the neuclear power plant industries, pls? and lastly,

if you don't mind--exactly which companies compensate you?

no, you are not under investigation.... lol

on the contrary, some days i might need to solicit your wisdom and seek your counsel.

specifically, recently there have been on air several neuclear power plant advert advising

thai citizen not to be afraid of neuclear power generator plants which the govt are planning

to construct along the coastal areas both on the andaman and gulf of siam seaboards.

besides, the authority figure in the advert said that it is practically fail-safe.

the accidents, people unfamiliar with neuclear power generator plants, are talking about, rarely happens....

categorically, it is completely safe.... china has several, japan has them, u.s. has them, european countries have them as well....

besides, modern science is coming up with new technologies and unimaginable measures to contain radiation leakage and its spent fuse rods within even safer containments than nowadays....

the man also said that he has been working with neuclear power generator plants for many years, and

'look at me', he said, i am just as ordinary and healthy as you and everyone else....

is either of you appearing in any of those adverts by any chance?

much thanks in advance for each of your honest responses. i for one will be greatly indebted to your personal disclosure for the benefits of forum readers also.

OK, if you really want to know: -

Bachelor's degree in Applied Physics

PhD in Nuclear Instrumentation Engineering

Chartered Physicist

20 years on-site experience designing, developing, and commissioning nuclear plant instrumentation and safety mechanisms.

Used to earn my crust at that place up in W. Cumbria that has been subject to a few name changes over the years.

Retired for the last ten years.

I do NOT glow green, orange or any other colour.

Not currently appearing in any adverts, propaganda or anything else - BUT I am open to offers

DM

[nakachalet]

soutpeel--no apology necessary. on the contrary, much appreciate your info. korp-koon-mark-krup. vote is also duly noted.

doctormann--thx much also for your info. geographically, we are practically a stone throw from each other.... lol

when rae gamma and pds 100 spectro start ticking, i'll know who to call.... lol

[yabaaaa]

I saw an article on the front page of the Nation last week about Chonburi being considered as a site for a nuclear powerplant. Surely this isnt a good idea. What do you think.

They have a job doing it safely in the west, what confidence have you got in Thailand ability to do it ?

[thaihome]

.....So, we'll be OK just so long as Somchai presses all the right buttons!

That's the thing! knowing how local business handle stuff, do you think they will manage a nuclear plant any different? it's not the technology itself which is scary but who it's going to be operating it...and obviously at the end of the investigation nobody will be found to be guilty of anything....TIT

You have no idea of the highly sophisticated plants that are operated by Thais everyday in Thailand. The reason you have no idea is they are operated safely everyday and that never makes the newspaper.

TH

[surayu]

You have no idea of the highly sophisticated plants that are operated by Thais everyday in Thailand. The reason you have no idea is they are operated safely everyday and that never makes the newspaper.

TH

i guess we do however have a real clear picture of what reach the news and what we can see first hand in our everyday lifes, that will do it for me

[Soutpeel]

You have no idea of the highly sophisticated plants that are operated by Thais everyday in Thailand. The reason you have no idea is they are operated safely everyday and that never makes the newspaper.

TH

Agreeing with Thaihome on this one....98.9% of our esteemed posters on TV have never worked in Thailand, let alone worked in any form of industry anywhere, so they basically dont have clue what they are talking about other than repeating what they hear while sitting on a bar stool.

I have worked with a lot of very capable Thai nationals in industry over the years in Thailand, in fact a lot of them were/are a lot better than the farangs they replaced in the O&G game......

The only exposure the vast majority of TV posters have to working Thai's are the one working in shops, restaurants,their gardener, their maid or their favorite BG...

[surayu]

....98.9% of our esteemed posters on TV have never worked in Thailand, let alone worked in any form of industry anywhere, so they basically dont have clue what they are talking about other than repeating what they hear while sitting on a bar stool.

I have worked with a lot of very capable Thai nationals in industry over the years in Thailand, in fact a lot of them were/are a lot better than the farangs they replaced in the O&G game......

The only exposure the vast majority of TV posters have to working Thai's are the one working in shops, restaurants,their gardener, their maid or their favorite BG...

Obviously we forgot you hold that secret book with names, profession and background information of any kind about all TV members(and possibly even the details of whoever is just passing by just once), that's how you can give us a so detailed percentange if you keep going this way, soon you will be telling us about all exported thai made technology in the needy western world, ah ah, you made my day SP

[thaihome]

You have no idea of the highly sophisticated plants that are operated by Thais everyday in Thailand. The reason you have no idea is they are operated safely everyday and that never makes the newspaper.

TH

i guess we do however have a real clear picture of what reach the news and what we can see first hand in our everyday lifes, that will do it for me

So I guess in your everyday life you see Thais operating the 5 Gas Separation Plants, or the several offshore riser and compression facilities, or the gas pipeline control center controlling the 1,000km or more of pipelines in Thailand, to say nothing of the many complex petro chemical plants that are owned and operated by Thai companies.

That is what I see in my every day life. What do you see?

TH

[surayu]

That is what I see in my every day life. What do you see?

TH

...i see that high end foreigner professionals hired or partecipating somehow in almost any sector are simply been given the boots as soon as the local other parts thinks they are able to manage things by their own, i also noticed a certain local trend to keep foreigner collaboration almost "secret" even when all the vital know hows are provided by non-thai and if they really have to mention a foreigner partecipation they try to play it down, as something almost useless....

[Cobalt60]

There are several irradiation plants in Thailand run by Thai's and operated by them.

[yabaaaa]

.....So, we'll be OK just so long as Somchai presses all the right buttons!

That's the thing! knowing how local business handle stuff, do you think they will manage a nuclear plant any different? it's not the technology itself which is scary but who it's going to be operating it...and obviously at the end of the investigation nobody will be found to be guilty of anything....TIT

You have no idea of the highly sophisticated plants that are operated by Thais everyday in Thailand. The reason you have no idea is they are operated safely everyday and that never makes the newspaper.

TH

yep just like all those shootings that dont make the paper right? free press here too?

[sbk]

A post containing racial slurs has been deleted as well as all posts responding to that post. Please do not respond to such posts in the forum but use the report button. thanks

[DickWong]

Darn. Pattaya beat Phuket to it again.

[Soutpeel]

That is what I see in my every day life. What do you see?

TH

...i see that high end foreigner professionals hired or partecipating somehow in almost any sector are simply been given the boots as soon as the local other parts thinks they are able to manage things by their own, i also noticed a certain local trend to keep foreigner collaboration almost "secret" even when all the vital know hows are provided by non-thai and if they really have to mention a foreigner partecipation they try to play it down, as something almost useless....

Your post shows great naviety of how things actually work, as the description you give applies in countries all over the world, not just Thailand, many countries in the middle east spring to mind doing exactly what you are talking about... ...know this from personal experience and trust me Thailand is a light weight when it comes to things like this...

Expats getting involved in the international engineering/construction game know this happens and expect nationalisation, and "Xenophobia" in the course of their international careers, at the end of the day most guys are interested only in one thing....the cash going into their banks accounts, and provided they are paid what they looking for (generally very well paid) for the period agree to then they dont really give a rats ar*e about the "political" games going on..

Thaihome....you concur on this ???

[oldsparrow]

Personally, I think most of the whole operation will be just foreign contract.

Where there is the need of experts any experts will be hired foreign or not, advertised or not, like the ex-Yugo. Professor in leading UK U. like the IC.

If it will really happened the gov. may allocate more scholarship and more Thais can be in this field.

[Soutpeel]

Personally, I think most of the whole operation will be just foreign contract.

If it will really happened the gov. may allocate more scholarship and more Thais can be in this field.

You are sort of right, the contract will be managed by an international nuclear construction company, if for example, its the French who are awared the contract, it will be Framatome (what ever they are called these days), Framatome will then award parts of the contract to other companies...ie all civil works will be done by Spie...etc etc..

As with any international contract, there will be "local content clauses" ie so many percent of the work force will be local, certain equipment, materials will be sourced locally etc etc..

The one thing I can tell you for certain, all the critical equipment ie reactor vessels, steam generator, turbines etc etc, will be coming from overseas..ie France or where-ever...so please dont be under the impression that reactor vessels etc will be fabricated in Thailand....they wont...

As to your second point....this will happen, it goes without saying...in fact it will not be the Thai goverment offering the scholarships, it's generally the Nuclear construction company who puts up the money, as within their contract there is provision for training/mentoring and education in the Construction, operation and maintenance of these plants..

[oldsparrow]

Thank for information Soutpeel. In Thai style, I think there will be general advertisement of the project and nuke study fashion among the nerds.

We also have to avoid foreign operators from involving too much in local entertainment that may impair their concentration/performance. We don't want to see this on TV "What a horrible world! my Thai GF ran off, for I work night shift at the nuke plant!"

[thaihome]

That is what I see in my every day life. What do you see?

TH

...i see that high end foreigner professionals hired or partecipating somehow in almost any sector are simply been given the boots as soon as the local other parts thinks they are able to manage things by their own, i also noticed a certain local trend to keep foreigner collaboration almost "secret" even when all the vital know hows are provided by non-thai and if they really have to mention a foreigner partecipation they try to play it down, as something almost useless....

Your post shows great naviety of how things actually work, as the description you give applies in countries all over the world, not just Thailand, many countries in the middle east spring to mind doing exactly what you are talking about... ...know this from personal experience and trust me Thailand is a light weight when it comes to things like this...

Expats getting involved in the international engineering/construction game know this happens and expect nationalisation, and "Xenophobia" in the course of their international careers, at the end of the day most guys are interested only in one thing....the cash going into their banks accounts, and provided they are paid what they looking for (generally very well paid) for the period agree to then they dont really give a rats ar*e about the "political" games going on..

Thaihome....you concur on this ???

In my experience in building many major projects in Thailand there was never any attempt to keep secret the foreign involvement. When the contract is signed, the press release states the name of the company. Every project has our company’s logo on the sign board and as well as any other foreign company that may be involved. There is never any issue with buying foreign equipment that is not made in Thailand and it is never hidden. Owners (Thai) will often insist that it be foreign (and not Chinese) for a variety of reasons.

I have no idea where anyone would get the impression that foreign companies involvement is kept “secret”. As far as getting rid of foreigners as soon as they feel they can do it themselves, that is obviously an economic decision not xenophobia.

TH

[sibeymai]

Once it's built all those people who will now glow in the dark should have a positive effect on the night time motorcycle accident rate.

[oldsparrow]

thaihome,

I think that foreigners who oftenly do concern of Thailand' s gratitude to imported civilisation have not contibuted to the development of this country themselves.

[Birdman]

[surayu]

thaihome,

I think that foreigners who oftenly do concern of Thailand' s gratitude to imported civilisation have not contibuted to the development of this country themselves.

methinks that whoever is pointing out his "perplexity" to the host, it's already making them a huge favour, as the most of the time there is a real and very sound reason to complain, just because we are the "guests" doesn't make them automatically right, but apparently that's not so clear to someone

[surayu]

....I have no idea where anyone would get the impression that foreign companies involvement is kept "secret"....

Does the Architect Council of Thailand (ACT) making pressure on the local government to legally recognize foreign works in their project rings any bells to you? Do you have ever asked yourself how comes for so many famous monuments or art works around BKK(but not only BKK), the names or nationality of the artists seems just to have been missed on the official information on display?Guess why? .....probably many people would have recognized something familiar looking at these not so oriental looking places, the same thing is happening with the most modern structures.....

[Dakhar]

You have no idea of the highly sophisticated plants that are operated by Thais everyday in Thailand. The reason you have no idea is they are operated safely everyday and that never makes the newspaper.

TH

i guess we do however have a real clear picture of what reach the news and what we can see first hand in our everyday lifes, that will do it for me

I spent the day at a "Health Fare" held at the Impact arena. While there I was surounded by medical equipment that cost any where from 10 Baht to several 100K USD. I observed a Chochlear Implant that can allow the deaf to hear, a pure modern miracle--- by all rights.

The news was there, so I watched the news tonight.... After cutting up their footage, what did the news focus on?

Exercise equipment that was made out of used scrap iron, and dumbells made out of cement & paint cans.....

modern Thailand.... God Help us

[PingManDan]

I saw an article on the front page of the Nation last week about Chonburi being considered as a site for a nuclear powerplant. Surely this isnt a good idea. What do you think.

OMG who would build and run it, surely not Thais, then we are all in deep $hit!!, run for the hills.

Remember Chernobal

[nakachalet]

nuclear power generator plants for thailand?

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[oldsparrow]

thaihome, I think that foreigners who oftenly do concern of Thailand' s gratitude to imported civilisation have not contibuted to the development of this country themselves.

methinks that whoever is pointing out his "perplexity" to the host, it's already making them a huge favour, as the most of the time there is a real and very sound reason to complain, just because we are the "guests" doesn't make them automatically right, but apparently that's not so clear to someone

Quiet right.. Whwever, what matter are the quality of such "perplexity" and the "channel".

[thaihome]

....I have no idea where anyone would get the impression that foreign companies involvement is kept "secret"....

Does the Architect Council of Thailand (ACT) making pressure on the local government to legally recognize foreign works in their project rings any bells to you? Do you have ever asked yourself how comes for so many famous monuments or art works around BKK(but not only BKK), the names or nationality of the artists seems just to have been missed on the official information on display?Guess why? .....probably many people would have recognized something familiar looking at these not so oriental looking places, the same thing is happening with the most modern structures.....

As is often the case, we live in different worlds and I have no idea what you are talking about. All I know is you can go look at the billions of dollars worth of projects going on right now on the Eastern Seaboard and see foriegn companies names all over them.

TH