Who's A Dirty Old Man?

[Chaimai]

I pretty much agree with everything that you have said here, but it kind of all works out to: Life is a bitch and then you die!

Or, as a cynical friend once said "Life's a bitch, then you marry one !"

[Chaimai]

I am well aware of the side effects of the prohibition. But I am also quite well aware of the lives of women in those days. Are you? I don't think their ban of alcohol was necessarily the right one, but times have also changed quite dramatically since those days and to "poke fun" at women who had no rights and were considered property of their husbands is immature.

But hey, we are both off topic here.

dirty old man is the enlightening subject of this thread remember? And the need, it appears, as well as to start yet another thread denigrating women.

I am squarely behind Ian on this one Sbk. You've taken his light heartedness way too far. Lighten up.

I also have to agree - the photo was quite funny. I certainly did not think it denegraded women and it is inappropriate to bring such comments into this topic. In the context of this thread the picture was inoffensive.

[threedot]

Or, as a cynical friend once said "Life's a bitch, then you marry one !"

The secret is not to marry. It's a bit of an outdated concept if you ask me, like religion.

Edited July 23, 2009 by threedot

[IanForbes]

Wish I had had a chance to read this ongoing, as there are now so many points I want to address that its making my head spin, and its not even 7am!

Have to say some things that wont go down well but its not an attack, its just a viewpoint...

I think often some things that come up time and time again are pretty hypocritical tbh. Such as men feeling sad about womens rights in 3rd world countries, but then going on to exploit the benefits of that, and at the same time critising the rights woman have in the west.

Also get a bit tired about reading comments along some lines that the roles are reversed for western woman in Thailand as they no longer have power over western men. Because of course, all women in the west manipulate men with their bodies and sex. Must be very frustrating for a woman be young and sexy and not want you (a generic "you", that is. Not pointing at anyone here!). If a young attractive woman in the west rebuffs, shes a bitch, if she smiles, shes a tease. (Yes, ok, a bit extreme, but seems to me woman can never win. Whatever we do will usually affect a mans ego one way or another). Then when a woman gets past a certain age we are of course all jealous and cynical and fat and washed up and dont like sex and etc etc etc.

When western couples visit Thailand our men must be either in heaven or hel_l(as in they run off and have fun with younger girls or feel miserable as sin because they stick with the wife. But, of course, if he says he is happy with his wife and wouldnt play around, hes lying. Biologically he is designed to "####" every attractive available female in sight - For clarification, I am being sarcastic here.).

Anyway...honestly, how often do you get people making negative comments about you when you walk down the street? (Again, a more open generic "you", and not just addressing the possible "dirty old man" comment, but any possible negative comments). If its occasional, if you are doing no wrong, and if you are happy, then just get over it. Life is too short. If its often, then maybe stop and think about what it is that would make people in society say that (and im not saying its right or wrong, im just saying think about it. Either that or put up with it and let it go). (hel_l, in any case, most women get comments 24/7 about them. We put up with it. Some complimentary, some base, but quite often derogatory. Even the worlds most beautiful and/or intelligent women put up with derogatory crap on a daily basis. We are judged far more harshly on everything from our minds to our bodies than men ever are. But, sorry, i dont want to turn this into some kind of 'we are worse off than you' debate. Im just stating what i believe is true and i think its relevant. Men dont get the same rough end of the stick in society, no matter how far woman have progressed). I think the problem also lies within the individual. Some things are clearly going to cause reactions, of course, but some things are peoples own demons playing up. Projecting their own negative ways of thinking onto others. So they go on to think that every western woman that even glances at them if they are with a young woman are giving them "dirty looks" or are jealous or whatever. Some may get an ego boost from that, or some will just resent the women. To some men here, the western woman in Thailand are an embodiment of every woman that ever rebuffed or caused them pain in the west. Damned before we even open our mouths.

I will also admit that I have sometimes had my own negative way of thinking. Ie: when i have seen a young delicate beautiful girl here who is obviously a partner of a much older less attractive man, I have felt sorry that the girl may have had little options in her life, otherwise she wouldnt be with him. But, thats also me projecting my viewpoint onto someone else, and who am i to make those assumptions.

Well..dam_n..im prattling on and its early in the morning ...and i havent had morning coffee ...and ive veered off topic..and Im just not eloquent enough like Mr Orang in my writing ability...so apologies.

I can't say I disagree with anything you wrote there, eek. It's all true. Thanks for taking the time to respond from a woman's point of view. There certainly are men who exploit Thai women... just as there are Thai women who exploit the men. It's tit for tat... or in this case "Old Charlie" (I apologize to all the Charlies out there). But, most of the women working in the bars on Loi Kroh road are there by choice.

Who knows when third world countries will start providing good paying jobs for the bulk of their citizens. Only then will there be some parity. It happened in Japan, but I'm not sure Japanese women are any better off. I haven't spent any time there. I think it is still a patriarch society.

[Lopburi99]

...It's tit for tat... or in this case "Old Charlie" (I apologize to all the Charlies out there). ...

You gotta love that TV humor !!

[Ijustwannateach]

It is an artifact of our modern female dominated western thinking that homosexuality is considered a lifestyle choice, but a 40 (+) year old man attracted to a 20 (+) woman is a pervert.

lol that's a new one, so western women are responsible for the gay rights movement that has been in full swing for the past several generations? LMAO

Me thinks that someone still gives a whole lot of dam_n what other people think

Not to mention that homosexuality is only really considered a 'choice' by people who don't understand it at all, or who don't want gays to have rights. Incidentally, gays who break the same age taboos also get the same kind of 'dirty old man' attitude from people.

I think it says volumes that this poster considers that 'all' men will be in the same boat when they are the same age as he is- as if no man ever becomes attracted to older women as they age (if that were true, why would the younger people be attracted to older men anyway)?

Personally speaking, the oldest guy I've gone out with was several decades older than me at the time, and the youngest relative to me was a bit more than a decade younger. I'm happy that I'm not in some kind of age trap where I can't find guys of all ages attractive, and I feel sorry for people who are trapped like that.

[LeungKen]

Then of course we have the dirty old women & their toy-boys

(I'm trying to add a bit of balance to the thread... .)

[Rasseru]

Then of course we have the dirty old women & their toy-boys

. . . . .

(I'm trying to add a bit of balance to the thread... .)

What are the chances, do you think, that she is the richer of the two?

Edited July 23, 2009 by Rasseru

[neverdie]

I like old sheilas , true, the old ones are much more fun....and I call em sheilas because thats the way I speak when theres none around to belt me

[gpdjohn]

[sylviex]

Don't know who or where, but such images are signs of a decadent society ...

Here, we see the effects of global wealth disparity within a society which has never progressed beyond vast disparities, of many kinds, within.

Has the western world made any real progression, overall? Just in patches?

By the way:

Suffragette is a term originally coined by the Daily Mail newspaper as a derogatory label for the more radical and militant members of the late-19th and early-20th century movement for women's suffrage in the United Kingdom, in particular members of the Women's Social and Political Union (WSPU). However, after former and then active members of the movement began to reclaim the word, the term became a label without negative connotations. It derives from the word "suffrage", meaning the right to vote.Suffragist is a more general term for members of suffrage movements, whether radical or conservative, male or female. American campaigners preferred this more inclusive title, while those Americans hostile to women's suffrage used "suffragette" as a pejorative, emphasizing its feminine "-ette" ending.^{[citation needed]} In Britain, "suffragist" is generally used solely to identify members of the National Union of Women's Suffrage Societies (NUWSS).

Wiki

Is Chiang Mai (or at least this forum) the hub of Dirty Old People?

What about putting this in the language forum? I'll bet there are some interesting Thai equivalent terms.

Edited July 23, 2009 by sylviex

[Puwa]

Hard to abstain on such an entertaining topic. My guiding principles, in the form of cheap aphorisms:

1) In general, people are ridiculous and we do silly things.

2) Death is inevitable and formidable, and our apprehension of it leads us down strange paths.

3) Since there is no God, in the final analysis one is only accountable to his own conscience and to society. Therefore, people with little conscience, or skewed conscience--meaning they can't empathize with others-- who live in a permissive society can basically do as they please without a second thought.

4) The more one tries to explain his actions, the worse he looks.

5) Men have a lot of trouble reading women's intentions, and guessing at them publicly generally just evokes pity.

6) It takes a lot of work, tolerance, and compromise for a foreigner to be genuinely respected in Thai society.

7) My wife tells me that the older I get, the more attractive I am.

8) Puwa's 4th rule of living happily in Thailand (from the forthcoming "Puwa's 10 Rules to Living Happily in Thailand"): Avoid all unnecessary contact with other farang.

[Thakkar]

"Life is a bitch..."

I believe the correct expression is: 'Life is a beach' and it certainly is if one keeps the right attitude.

Eek, even before her morning coffee, has nailed it all down quite nicely in her last post. I would only add that all this exploitation that's being talked about goes both ways: The old man exploits her youth while the young lady exploits his relative wealth. While some of these women come from dire economic circumstances, many, as far as I've seen, don't. They have made a very conscious choice. I'm not talking here about women from the bar scene, which I know little about.

For example, I was at a salon, using the opportunity to practice a little Thai, being scrupulously respectful as always. The twenty-something young lady cutting my hair asked if I'd teach her to swim (never mind how the conversation got to that). This was clearly a come-on. I was flattered but soon snapped out of it. I remembered the Cantonese saying: "take a piss and look at yourself in the reflection" —that is, see yourself as you are. After all, what could this pretty young lass see in me, a greying man (almost?) old enough to be her father. She alluded to my supposed handsomeness, but I know of course that the only person that can truly fool you is yourself. I replied with the truth: that I couldn't swim. Everyone, including the lass, laughed and the conversation went swimmingly after that.

Before the 1960's when it was made illegal, many wealthy Hong Kong Chinese men had two wives, the second one always much younger. There were a few such men among my father's friends. During Chinese New Year there'd be gatherings of family and friends with much drinking, gambling and merriment. With one particular family, the day would invariably end with the two wives going at each other with a year's worth of pent-up hatred. Yet the guy, a shrewd businessman, insisted on hosting the full-family get together every year. The younger wife came from a poor background, but only in relative terms. She just wanted a more comfortable life, which is not to say she didn't care for the old man; there was genuine affection, though maybe not love. I see big-age-gap couplings here (and not just between Farang and Thai, but also Thai-Thai) and almost always there is genuine affection and perhaps even a kind of love. Whatever, sometimes it's best to take things at face value and not be too judgmental.

While I've managed to retain my figure (if I do say so myself), Mrs T is no longer the svelte young lass she used to be (she's right behind me, isn't she...?) though she remains in my eyes as lovely as the day I first saw her twenty years ago. She asked me once, were she to pass away first (not inconceivable considering the way she eats), whether I would remarry a younger woman. A trick question, of course, and one best evaded. I told her that if that came to pass, I'd return to my beloved Hong Kong. And if I wanted sex with a younger woman, I could get that anywhere without the rigmarole of marriage. If I wanted to feel affection, I would bring forth memories of our days together.

As for "dirty old man" that's the code Mrs. T and I use when, erm, playing rough.

[Chaimai]

Then of course we have the dirty old women & their toy-boys

(I'm trying to add a bit of balance to the thread... .)

Balance indeed. But I don't see anyone (myself included) calling her a "Dirty Old Slag".

If she is in a position where she is able to acquire a 'toyboy' then good luck to her.

[orang37]

Hard to abstain on such an entertaining topic. My guiding principles, in the form of cheap aphorisms:

1) In general, people are ridiculous and we do silly things.

2) Death is inevitable and formidable, and our apprehension of it leads us down strange paths.

3) Since there is no God, in the final analysis one is only accountable to his own conscience and to society. Therefore, people with little conscience, or skewed conscience--meaning they can't empathize with others-- who live in a permissive society can basically do as they please without a second thought.

4) The more one tries to explain his actions, the worse he looks.

5) Men have a lot of trouble reading women's intentions, and guessing at them publicly generally just evokes pity.

6) It takes a lot of work, tolerance, and compromise for a foreigner to be genuinely respected in Thai society.

7) My wife tells me that the older I get, the more attractive I am.

8) Puwa's 4th rule of living happily in Thailand (from the forthcoming "Puwa's 10 Rules to Living Happily in Thailand"): Avoid all unnecessary contact with other farang.

Sawasdee Khrup Khun Puwa,

Very interesting set of aphorisms on offer there : could you "discount me" (noat, dai mai ?) if I popped for all eight ?

On #3 : could I order a custom version which implies that those without conscience never have even the "first" thought ?

On #4 : could I order a custom version on which you will append : ", but the more one examines one's own actions using your best attempt at dispassionate loving rationality, the more free one is of concern with appearances." ?

On #6 : could I order a custom version that includes the word "surrender" ?

On #7 : could I order a version which slightly modifies the first statement with : ", but I never mistake kind flattery for love."

On #8 : could I order a version that slightly modifies the first statement with : ", except for those I have found to be wholesome."

I understand that creating a "custom set" will take your time and energy, of course; I am only asking for a ballpark figure on price at this time.

best, ~o:37;

Edited July 24, 2009 by orang37

[bojo]

Many years ago I would head down to Lamai beach on Koh Samui and spend the day down there.

I used to see couples happy there on the beach. The stereoytpical western older man(50+),having worked hard for this 2 week promise of love, usually red faced from the sun, very overweight, and not a chance in hel_l of getting a younger girlfriend in his home country.

The young girl, no doubt from a local bar doing her thing, taking care of him, buying him somtam and corn and frolicking in the sea with him whenever he could manage the walk down to the waves. The point I'm making is that he was happy and so was she, one rewarded with his idea of utopia and the other with cash.

These are the 'dity old men' in anyone's books, however regardless of one's ethical views and assuming that noone was coerced into the situation, there's nothing like watching peole enjoy themselves and having fun.

regards Bojo

[Chunkton]

Actually, I have to agree with eek on one especial point. Posting pictures of the Temperance Union suffragettes in such a way with such asinine comments is not only rather patronizing but also displays an ignorance as to women's lack of rights in prior generations and shows a contempt for what these women fought for.

Poorly played sir. Very poorly played.

Perhaps you miss the point that they were all as ugly as sin, and no one would have kissed them anyway, drunk or sober. Their fight was their fight, what behooves me to respect them? So I take it you don't drink?

Show a picture of me and my friends and I would expect the ladies to pay out the same. It'd called free speech.

Get a sense of humor or cut it off and join those in the picture. This is a forum for fun and conversation after all. I think sometimes people and moderators miss that point, if this is to be western BS PC then announce it, lose your members, and be done with it.

[Chunkton]

Now to the topic in hand. "He who is without sin should cast the first stone." And behold nobody did.

Stop being busybodies into other people's lives. Women with African toyboys is Politically Correct, but old farts with younger girls isn't? Get real. If the girl is too young then she will probably screw him for his money...som nom na.

Otherwise worry about what I presume is your own sad uninteresting life. Ridiculous.

[venturalaw]

Anyway...honestly, how often do you get people making negative comments about you when you walk down the street? (Again, a more open generic "you", and not just addressing the possible "dirty old man" comment, but any possible negative comments). If its occasional, if you are doing no wrong, and if you are happy, then just get over it. Life is too short. If its often, then maybe stop and think about what it is that would make people in society say that (and im not saying its right or wrong, im just saying think about it. Either that or put up with it and let it go). (hel_l, in any case, most women get comments 24/7 about them. We put up with it. Some complimentary, some base, but quite often derogatory. Even the worlds most beautiful and/or intelligent women put up with derogatory crap on a daily basis. We are judged far more harshly on everything from our minds to our bodies than men ever are. But, sorry, i dont want to turn this into some kind of 'we are worse off than you' debate. Im just stating what i believe is true and i think its relevant. Men dont get the same rough end of the stick in society, no matter how far woman have progressed). I think the problem also lies within the individual. Some things are clearly going to cause reactions, of course, but some things are peoples own demons playing up. Projecting their own negative ways of thinking onto others. So they go on to think that every western woman that even glances at them if they are with a young woman are giving them "dirty looks" or are jealous or whatever. Some may get an ego boost from that, or some will just resent the women. To some men here, the western woman in Thailand are an embodiment of every woman that ever rebuffed or caused them pain in the west. Damned before we even open our mouths.

I will also admit that I have sometimes had my own negative way of thinking. Ie: when i have seen a young delicate beautiful girl here who is obviously a partner of a much older less attractive man, I have felt sorry that the girl may have had little options in her life, otherwise she wouldnt be with him. But, thats also me projecting my viewpoint onto someone else, and who am i to make those assumptions.

I get looks from older farang women when I am out with my younger Thai wife. The looks vary from disapproving to an appreciative (less often) smile. My reaction - humor. After all, is it not they who are having the problem? Why should that cause me consternation? And, for that matter, why should negative comments, or gazes that you receive cause you to feel negatively? It is THEIR problem, not yours. I had not thought of the fact that western women experience more negative glances, comments, etc. than men until reading your post. I believe it is because if a negative interaction is put out there it is from both sexes when women are the target, but only from women if men are the target.

Why feel sorry for a younger woman being with an older man? There is much that an older man has to offer - life experiences to start with. Not just money. Furthermore, older men appreciate much more than younger men. It's really great to be appreciated. I have found that younger women here in Thailand love to be truly appreciated - often for the first time in their lives.

Edited July 24, 2009 by venturalaw

[IanForbes]

Why feel sorry for a younger woman being with an older man? There is much that an older man has to offer - life experiences to start with. Not just money. Furthermore, older men appreciate much more than younger men. It's really great to be appreciated. I have found that younger women here in Thailand love to be truly appreciated - often for the first time in their lives.

I wasn't going to reply any more to this topic because I didn't really have anything new to say. However, I DO think you hit one of the nails squarely on the head with that paragraph. I've had many frank discussions with my Thai lady friends and what you wrote there is one point the gals kept stressing... they were appreciated and treated better by older men... just as simple as that.

[Kitsch22]

Don't know who or where, but such images are signs of a decadent society ...

Here, we see the effects of global wealth disparity within a society which has never progressed beyond vast disparities, of many kinds, within.

Has the western world made any real progression, overall? Just in patches?

By the way:

Suffragette is a term originally coined by the Daily Mail newspaper as a derogatory label for the more radical and militant members of the late-19th and early-20th century movement for women's suffrage in the United Kingdom, in particular members of the Women's Social and Political Union (WSPU). However, after former and then active members of the movement began to reclaim the word, the term became a label without negative connotations. It derives from the word "suffrage", meaning the right to vote.Suffragist is a more general term for members of suffrage movements, whether radical or conservative, male or female. American campaigners preferred this more inclusive title, while those Americans hostile to women's suffrage used "suffragette" as a pejorative, emphasizing its feminine "-ette" ending.^{[citation needed]} In Britain, "suffragist" is generally used solely to identify members of the National Union of Women's Suffrage Societies (NUWSS).

Wiki

Is Chiang Mai (or at least this forum) the hub of Dirty Old People?

What about putting this in the language forum? I'll bet there are some interesting Thai equivalent terms.

"Ai Thao Hua Ngoo" - literally "Old Man Snakehead", but it means "Dirty Old Man".

[orang37]

"Ai Thao Hua Ngoo" - literally "Old Man Snakehead", but it means "Dirty Old Man".

Sawasdee Khrup, Khun Kitsch,

Very nice to have a real Thai speaker here.

I once heard an interesting idiomatic expression in Thai that had the meaning of "robbing the cradle" in American lingo, it went something like "the old buffalo like to eat the young grass." Do you happen to know that in Thai. I'm sure the noun "kwai" was used for buffalo (which, as you know, can be used pejoratively, and I would guess there are other levels of cultural meaning, language uses of that also : for example : the "vampire" spirits of Pu Sae and Ya Sae on Doi Suthep needed a buffalo sacrifice every year).

best, ~o:37;

[Scrubber]

"Ai Thao Hua Ngoo" - literally "Old Man Snakehead", but it means "Dirty Old Man".

Sawasdee Khrup, Khun Kitsch,

Very nice to have a real Thai speaker here.

I once heard an interesting idiomatic expression in Thai that had the meaning of "robbing the cradle" in American lingo, it went something like "the old buffalo like to eat the young grass." Do you happen to know that in Thai. I'm sure the noun "kwai" was used for buffalo (which, as you know, can be used pejoratively, and I would guess there are other levels of cultural meaning, language uses of that also : for example : the "vampire" spirits of Pu Sae and Ya Sae on Doi Suthep needed a buffalo sacrifice every year).

best, ~o:37;

It's "wua gair gin yaa aon" - this can be used to refer to both dirty old men & women. Fresh grass - can't beat it.

[Absingjul]

Before the 1960's when it was made illegal, many wealthy Hong Kong Chinese men had two wives, the second one always much younger.

Not much has changed. Today in HK the second wife is often the pinay 'housekeeper'.

[Chris84]

I read somewhere a good rule of thumb method. Is to take your age. For example 70. Then two thirds of that plus an extra 2. So you would get a girlfriend of 50 or above if you were a 70 year old man. It works well with any age.

[ucantbeserious]

seems to me the word "dirty" is the key in the use of the term.

the notion that normal everyday sex is "dirty" in certain circumstances,

i suggest, comes from christian guilt ridden cultures.

why would a difference in age make sex "dirty"?

why not "horny old man", "lecherous old man", "creepy old man" etc,

coz those terms don't infer immorality in the christian sense.

i notice the thai terms mentioned don't actually use the word "dirty".

[muggins]

I read somewhere a good rule of thumb method. Is to take your age. For example 70. Then two thirds of that plus an extra 2. So you would get a girlfriend of 50 or above if you were a 70 year old man. It works well with any age.

How is that good?

Edited July 27, 2009 by muggins

[soic]

After which...mid 30's?...is sort of expected that he will want to "settle down", make a commitment, ties, a family, etc. (Then afterwards comes the middle age itch..lol. ). When a man gets to say 60's plus-ish, i guess its generally expected that he will be more of a grandfather figure, someone reliable, less inclined to want a lot of different woman/sexual encounters in his life.

Sorry eek, but where do you get these ideas from ?

I don't know many men who, if they are being really honest with themselves, truly desire and will want to "settle down" as you put it. This "settling down", being monogamous, always seems to me as something imposed on men demanded by women. The "middle age itch" you refer to doesn't just appear. It's the resurfacing of the desire to "sow wild oats" from a man's earlier years which was forcibly repressed during the "settle down" period (a man may suppress his "appetite" simple because it's easier to eat at home). My guess is that the sexual desire resurfaces as a response to the reduction of sex which typically happens in most marriages over time. Possibly those men who are most successful at monogamy experience less reduction of sexual intimacy in their marriage.

Now, before I get jumped on for expressing my opinion let me say that I'm stating what I believe are men's most basic instincts and motivations for behaviour. Love and cultural beliefs will take greater importance and overrule these for some males.

OK, fire away.

I don't know many humans who, if they are being really honest with themselves... I am male, and I am an older gentleman, 47 to be exact. I've "scratched the itch", so I won't pretend to be holier than thou. I've also been married more than once, and to a lady that was a little younger than I, much younger than I and now about the same age. Each was beneficial in their own way and each had their own, well... difficulties. I must say though, that in none of it, was it dictated "by women" that is was acceptable or not. Society decides what is acceptable, chosen religion decides what is acceptable, the law decides what is acceptable. There is also common sense... Going to an impoverished country where money can buy, rent or enchant you a young nubile female/male that you couldn't otherwise win with your personality, physique or status; that could be a qualifier as a "dirty old man/lady".

No matter which side of the fence you fall on regarding this issue, it's wrong to say that it's the opposite sex that dictates what is or should be acceptable. It is all the other things I mentioned, but irregardless, there's still the inner self. If you know or feel that something is wrong... it is wrong for you to do it, 100 people can tell you it's right, but if it feels wrong to you, you'd be wrong to do it. It all boils down to the end and the beginning of the day, you have to look yourself in the mirror. I'll go to my bunker now and wait for the incoming.... lol

[Ulysses G.]

Going to an impoverished country where money can buy, rent or enchant you a young nubile female/male that you couldn't otherwise win with your personality, physique or status; that could be a qualifier as a "dirty old man/lady".

How about rich men who stay home and do the same thing in their own country? That seems perfectly OK. Why is it any worse going to another place where you are the "rich" guy?

[bojo]

Going to an impoverished country where money can buy, rent or enchant you a young nubile female/male that you couldn't otherwise win with your personality, physique or status; that could be a qualifier as a "dirty old man/lady".

How about rich men who stay home and do the same thing in their own country? That seems perfectly OK. Why is it any worse going to another place where you are the "rich" guy?

Maybe with the safety net of welfare/social security in a richer western society, the young women/men are seen as having a choice in the matter whereby in an impoverished country, third parties observing/attaching a stigma might see the older man as taking advantage of people with little or no choice.

However a 'dirty old man' in my eyes conjures up images of a raincoat clad pervert in Soho looking both ways before clandestinely ducking through a doorway into a peepshow and 5 minutes later scurrying away trying to be invisible.

Regards Bojo