Thaksin's " Big Surprise " Still A Secret

[Crushdepth]

people were entitled to appeal to His Majesty the King according to Article 91 of the Constitution and the government should let them exercise their rights.

Sure, they can ask. But normally you ask for a pardon while serving your sentence. You'd have to think the chances of one being granted to a fugitive (whose lawyer was busted trying to bribe court officials - by a judge!) are pretty slim. Basically the real reasons for this 'pardon' business and 'Big Suprise II are to:

i) keep Thaksin in the headlines, and (sadly) to

ii) stir up some anti-establishment sentiment (trying to put that gently as I can) should it be turned down.

[Koo82]

Under 191, and 500+ year old precedent, citizens are entitled to petition the king.

But to pressure HRM to act, in an improper manner, is not a right.

Threatening to use force if the petition is found improper is pressure of an untoward amount.

Having a perogative also allows discretion, and such an elevated position obviously has layers of

etiquette and protocol in place, to shield from spurious, usurious, or improper attempts at influence.

And punishments for such actions that are just.

The reds said after they check, list all names who signed, and submit, there won't be any follow up or reminder at all.

The reds said it's up to the Father to consider.

[Koo82]

I can tell many have come to either the reds meetings or Khun Thaksin's Birthday parties with the hope to take 500 Baht but they came home with no money

the usual suitcases full of money from Hong Kong didn't make it in time then?

I don't even know who is living in Hong Kong and what they had to do with Khun Thaksin's Birthday.

Maybe someone you're talking about could carry "suitcases full of money" but why don't they use check or something? Carrying cash is not a safe way.

That is correct, carrying cash round the red-shirt thugs could pove to be dangerous.

Dangerous? You possibly have never been to any red shirt meeting and only read one sided materials.

If I'm wrong, say it.

I've been with the reds 4 times. They only chit chat, shouted someone name with "get out", laughed and discussed.

[Jingthing]

I've been with the reds 4 times

Nothing to brag about ...

BTW, the reds act like they are pro democracy. Remember when Tacky was in power and he made it very clear THIS IS NOT ABOUT DEMOCRACY. Their so called pro democratic messiah is no fan of democracy himself. How hypocritical is that?

[animatic]

Under 191, and 500+ year old precedent, citizens are entitled to petition the king.

But to pressure HRM to act, in an improper manner, is not a right.

Threatening to use force if the petition is found improper is pressure of an untoward amount.

Having a perogative also allows discretion, and such an elevated position obviously has layers of

etiquette and protocol in place, to shield from spurious, usurious, or improper attempts at influence.

And punishments for such actions that are just.

The reds said after they check, list all names who signed, and submit, there won't be any follow up or reminder at all.

The reds said it's up to the Father to consider.

Koo you read it wrong.

I am indicating that the Royal House Hold Bureau will demand a name check

before considering further movement towards the final arbiter.

If they find a significant number of FALSE names, or duplicate handwriting on different names, etc,

they could easily throw it out for good cause, and charge the people filing with

trying to scam the highest authority with deception and lies. Or hold all signer responsible.

[animatic]

The only big surprise is if he backs off and shuts up totally.

I don't expect to be surprised till after November

and the next uprising fails spectacularly.

Edited August 3, 2009 by animatic

[sriracha john]

100 Thaksin's supporters rally against Abhisit

Some 100 supporters of former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra rallied in front of the Government House to denounce the government's campaign against the red-shirt movement gathering of signatures to petition His Majesty for Thaksin's pardon.

The demonstrators called themselves the People's Council for Democracy. They wore black with a red scarf carrying "Truth Today" words.

They demanded the government to stop all campaigns against the Thaksin-pardon petition drive. They moved from the Interior Ministry to the Phitsanulok Road in front of the Government House at 11 am.

-- The Nation 2009-08-03

[sriracha john]

Thaksin Claims More Petition Signatures Remain at Red-shirt Radio Stations

During his latest phone-in, ousted premier and fugitive Thaksin Shinawatra said a considerable number of petitioner signatures have been collected requesting a Royal Pardon on his behalf, but the signatures are still at various red-shirts' provincial radio stations.

During his phone-in to Rak Chiang Mai Group 51's radio station, the former prime minister Thaksin claimed there were a considerable number of petition signatures that were still being kept at various local radio stations. He said that if these signatures were sent via usual postal service they would be lost and would not reach the core red-shirt group in Bangkok.

He added that his supporters should not trust sending their signatures with their district chiefs either, as he claimed there are groups who are trying to stifle people's legitimate political expression by misusing the existing bureaucracy.

He said that even if the government purports itself to be democratic, their attempt to limit citizen rights is mindless.

His latest phone-in shed a new light on Thaksin's role in the petition drive, as he had previously claimed that he has had no part in the red-shirt's petition efforts to ask for a Royal Pardon on his behalf and he has said that his supporters started the movement by themselves.

The movement is deemed inappropriate on two accounts; first, it is deemed an attempt to pressure His Majesty the King and, second, Thaksin is a self-exiled fugitive which renders him ineligible for Royal Pardon.

The movement has been met with much criticism from academics who said it was inappropriate and not in accordance with usual protocol. For those to conventionally seek a royal pardon, they must be a convict whose cases have been finalized and are serving time in prison. Relatives of eligible convicts can also petition for a royal pardon on their behalf.

The phone-in implies that Thaksin is taking a different stance, turning this movement into a matter of citizen rights.

-- Tan Network 2009-08-03

[Samuian]

He said that if these signatures were sent via usual postal service they would be lost and would not reach the core red-shirt group in Bangkok.

He added that his supporters should not trust sending their signatures with their district chiefs either, as he claimed there are groups who are trying to stifle people's legitimate political expression by misusing the existing bureaucracy.

He said that even if the government purports itself to be democratic, their attempt to limit citizen rights is mindless

he always claims he isn't involved but gives instructions about how to be careful and not trust anyone...sawing more diversion..through mistrust....this man needs help - urgently!

The movement is deemed inappropriate on two accounts; first, it is deemed an attempt to pressure His Majesty the King and, second, Thaksin is a self-exiled fugitive which renders him ineligible for Royal Pardon.

The movement has been met with much criticism from academics who said it was inappropriate and not in accordance with usual protocol

Quotes from post #308

[hammered]

The asset seizure case is in court. The temperature is going to increase.

[sriracha john]

UDD to submit petition on August 17

Bowing to a barrage of criticism that Aug 7 is inappropriate, the UDD has set a new date to submit its petition for a Royal Pardon for fugitive former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra.

The United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship has settled on Monday, August 17, the same day the Supreme Court is due to deliver its verdict in the rubber saplings corruption case, which involves many former Thaksin cabinet ministers including Bumjaithai defacto leader Newin Chidchob.

Originally, the red-shirted group planned to submit the petition and lists of supporting signatures on August 7. However, the choice of the date was slammed as being inappropriate by critics who pointed out that it is known as “Gun Explosion Day” -- the date the outlawed Communist Party of Thailand launched its war of liberation against the Establishment in 1965.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/politics/1...on-on-august-17

-- Bangkok Post 2009-08-03

[zzaa09]

T-Squared. Definitely a hard act to follow.

[sriracha john]

Red shirts to petition on August 17

The red shirts will present their petition seeking a Royal Pardon for former PM Thaksin Shinawatra to the palace on August 17, organisers said.

"There are more than 5 million signatures for the petition. Name checks will likely be completed around August 15 or 16, so the petition will be filed on August 17," said organiser Veera Musigapong.

The red shirts will organise a colourful march to the palace to present their petition, Veera said.

Included in the procession will be the petition placed atop a ceremonial bowl, a giant banner inscribed with 100,000 names and more than 1,000 marchers carrying the remaining signatures.

He said the petition was legal, dismissing as futile government attempts to counter the campaign. "Nothing can stop the red shirts from submitting their petition," he said. Veera said the government was trying to spread misinformation in a move to oppose the petition. He said the red shirts, in turn, had challenged the government to verify all the signatures.

Opponents of the petition risk offending the monarchy by trying to prevent people from airing their plight to His Majesty the King, he said.

Red-shirt co-leader Natthawut Saikua voiced suspicion that the opponents were mainly individuals involved in ousting Thaksin. He said Rectors from 26 universities had erred in opposing the petition as they did when they spearheaded a wrongful move to cite Article 7 of the Constitution, seeking a royally appointed prime minister in order to overthrow Thaksin.

He vowed the petition would advance, regardless of the government's intimidation tactics.

-- The Nation 2009-08-04

[sriracha john]

Red Shirts set to submit petition seeking Thaksin pardon August 17

BANGKOK, Aug 3 (TNA) – The Red Shirt movement plans to submit its petitions on August 17 seeking a Royal Pardon for ousted prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra.

Veera Musikapong, Natthawut Saikua and Jatuporn Promphan, leaders of the United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD) told a news conference that verification of the petitions signed by more than five million people will be finished about August 15 or 16 and the UDD would submit the petitions on August 17.

Some 100,000 petition papers will be put on trays while the rest will be boxed and carried by a thousand UDD members to the Bureau of the Royal Household.

The government, Prime Minister, and the Interior Minister oppose the UDD’s move to seek the Royal Pardon, said Veera adding that the Red Shirts group was ready to clarify all related issues and would not allow (the government ) to use its power to hinder their plan to submit the petition.

They will neither stage any protest nor deliver a speech to the crowd. The group will only travel to submit the petition and go home, Nutthawut said.

The UDD collected signatures of Thaksin’s supporters seeking a Royal Pardon for the former prime minister in response to his being sentenced for two years imprisonment last October, despite not being present for the trial or verdict, for abuse of power in helping his then-wife securing a parcel of prime Bangkok commercial land at a price discounted much below the going market price.

-- TNA 2009-08-03

[sriracha john]

Academics come out in opposition

Newin questions so-called 5 million signatures collected; Jatuporn claims figure closer to 10 million

Yesterday more than 100 academics from Chulalongkorn University circulated an open letter opposing the petition seeking a Royal Pardon for ex-PM Thaksin Shinawatra on grounds that the move was unprecedented, illegal, and inappropriate.

In the letter, the academics warned about the adverse impact the petition would have on the monarchy.

"The petition is deemed politically motivated to tarnish this revered institution," the letter said.

It said organisers of the petition campaign had intentionally evaded the prescribed procedures and legal provisions. Plus, in their attempt to have the public endorse the petition, they appeared to have the ulterior motive of undermining the monarchy and involving it in political rivalry, the letter said.

The organisers, especially Thaksin, should remember that they had pledged allegiance to the monarchy and should not be inflicting damage to it, the letter added.

It also called on people not to fall prey to the campaign and urged authorities concerned to help raise public awareness on the issue.

Meanwhile, banned politician Newin Chidchob pointed out yesterday that the signature campaign's actual goal was to create rifts between people and raise a negative attitude toward the monarchy.

"If His Majesty grants amnesty, how will the campaign's opponents feel? And if His Majesty does not grant amnesty, what would the campaign's supporters think?" Newin asked. "I believe the real goal is not to get amnesty for Thaksin because the process is unlawful, but to create a division among people and a negative attitude towards the revered institution," he said.

Newin, once a close ally to Thaksin, also expressed doubts about the 5 million signatures that the campaign organisers claim they have collected over the past month. He said when Weng Tojirakarn, a red-shirt leader, conducted a similar campaign for a constitutional amendment, he only managed to collect 67,000 signatures over two months.

Newin, who is a key figure in the coalition Bhum Jai Thai Party, noted that there are about 49 million people aged 15 and above in Thailand, so the 5 million signatures would translate to 10 per cent of this population. "I phoned more than 100 of my friends and relatives in Bangkok and the provinces, and asked if they had taken part in the signature campaign. And surprisingly, none of them had," the veteran politician said. He then added that "almost one million people" had joined Bhum Jai Thai Party's campaign against the petition.

In a related development, Jatuporn Promphan, one of the red-shirt leaders, said yesterday that more people had joined the petition drive after it was closed last Friday and that now "some 10 million people" had put their names down.

-- The Nation 2009-08-05

[TAWP]

In a related development, Jatuporn Promphan, one of the red-shirt leaders, said yesterday that more people had joined the petition drive after it was closed last Friday and that now "some 10 million people" had put their names down.

Wow, the lies some people spout...

Lie big enough and people will believe it - or atleast that the truth is atleast at the 50% mark (giving them with this latest fantasy number added in) a 5 million man count - which is in itself just pure fantasy.

[sriracha john]

In a related development, Jatuporn Promphan, one of the red-shirt leaders, said yesterday that more people had joined the petition drive after it was closed last Friday and that now "some 10 million people" had put their names down.

Wow, the lies some people spout...

Lie big enough and people will believe it - or atleast that the truth is atleast at the 50% mark (giving them with this latest fantasy number added in) a 5 million man count - which is in itself just pure fantasy.

Besides Jatuporn, Thaksin's other favorite liar, Noppadope, has his say...

[sriracha john]

Noppadon:Thaksin not hiding 1.8 billion baht

Former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra has not laundered 1.8 billion baht through an island tax haven as alleged by privy councilor Gen Phichit Kulwanich, the fugitive former premier's legal aide Noppadon Pattama said on Wednesday. Noppadon challenged Gen Phichit to submit evidence supporting the money laundering allegation to the Department of Special Investigation for legal action.

The former foreign minister said Thaksin is now running a diamond mine and television businesses overseas.

Thaksin’s 100 television channels project for Thailand would start test broadcasts on Sept 1. Noppadon reiterated that Thaksin and members of the Shinawatra family were not behind the red-shirts' petition for Royal Pardon.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/15...-8-billion-baht

-- Bangkok Post 2009-08-05

[sriracha john]

Red-shirt Group Insists on Filing Pardon Petition on August 17

Red-shirt supporters have vowed to file a pardon petition for former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra on August 17.

They claim to have collected ten million signatures already.

Pheu Thai Party member of Parliament and key red-shirt leader Jatupon Prompan insisted the pro-Thaksin movement would go ahead with the petition for a Royal Pardon for former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra on August 17.

He added that some ten million people have joined the signature campaign.

He believes the reason for the high number is that Interior Minister Chaowarat Chanweerakun launched an anti-signature campaign, driving more red-shirt members to sign.

Jatuporn stated that a coup is unlikely to be triggered by the campaign for the pardon for Thaksin as claimed by a former Supreme Commander General Boonsang Niampradit, because red-shirt members only exercise their rights under the Constitution and are not trying to spur a coup.

-- Tan Network 2009-08-05

[hammered]

In many ways the actual number of signatories is irrelevent as this is a PR war and those who want to believe will and those who dont wont. Games.

[sriracha john]

Puea Thai complaint against Charavat

Puea Thai Party Spokesman Prompong Nopparait filed a complaint with the National Anti-Corruption Commission late on Wednesday morning against Interior Minister Chavarat Charnveerkul.

Prompong said the opposition party believed the minister abused his authority in ordering provincial governors and district chiefs nationwide to arrange tables for people who had signed the petition for a Royal Pardon for Thaksin Shinawatra to withdraw their names.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/15...terior-minister

-- Bangkok Post 2009-08-05

[animatic]

PTP will say and do ANYTHING as long as it is against The Dems and partners.

What they won't do is deliver any coherent plan for helping the people and the country.

[TAWP]

They truly are a poor opposition-party.

Screaming 'No' instead of putting together a shadow-budget etc to show they would do if they ran the government is a usual way to gain voters.

But that would be in a democratic country, and that isn't something they are really interesting in having here. Them neither.

[jayboy]

In a related development, Jatuporn Promphan, one of the red-shirt leaders, said yesterday that more people had joined the petition drive after it was closed last Friday and that now "some 10 million people" had put their names down.

Wow, the lies some people spout...

Lie big enough and people will believe it - or atleast that the truth is atleast at the 50% mark (giving them with this latest fantasy number added in) a 5 million man count - which is in itself just pure fantasy.

Besides Jatuporn, Thaksin's other favorite liar, Noppadope, has his say...

I think if one is looking at blatant lies in this pardon scenario one would have to include the government's assertion that it isn't trying to obstruct the pardon (which is of course in a long and normally accepted tradition) but simply trying to present the public with the facts.By any standards that is a big fat porkie.

I agree however with Hammered that it's just a game and don't see any prospect of Thaksin actually receiving a pardon.If he was serious he would do it it himself and that means admitting guilt.If the elite had any imagination or motivation other than a bone headed hatred of Thaksin it might conclude there was an interesting opportunity here but of course the Neanderthal tendency will prevail.

[rixalex]

If the elite had any imagination or motivation other than a bone headed hatred of Thaksin it might conclude there was an interesting opportunity here but of course the Neanderthal tendency will prevail.

Oppurtunities allowing people to avoid punishment for crimes commited is not what i would describe as being interesting, more like completely unjust.

[sriracha john]

Wow, the lies some people spout...

Lie big enough and people will believe it - or atleast that the truth is atleast at the 50% mark (giving them with this latest fantasy number added in) a 5 million man count - which is in itself just pure fantasy.

Besides Jatuporn, Thaksin's other favorite liar, Noppadope, has his say...

I think if one is looking at blatant lies in this pardon scenario one would have to include the government's assertion that it isn't trying to obstruct the pardon (which is of course in a long and normally accepted tradition) but simply trying to present the public with the facts.By any standards that is a big fat porkie.

What lies by the government are you referring to? Where did you get the notion that the government is not behind the movement to stop the inappropriate petition? In all the news I've seen, they've freely admitted their efforts to try stop this improper act.... eg.

Democrat vows to oppose all bids to seek amnesty for Thaksin

http://thainews.prd.go.th/en/news.php?id=255208050006

Do you have news that you can post that corroborates what you say the government is doing?

Also, do you have any corroboration of your assertion that a petition attempt by someone who has not served a day in prison on their conviction is a "long and normally accepted tradition"? (such as something that contradicts what the below post reiterates)

Edited August 5, 2009 by sriracha john

[sriracha john]

Thai government sure of controlling situation as Thaksin's group to submit pardon petition

BANGKOK, Aug. 5 (Xinhua) -- The government will be able to control a potential conflict on August 17, when the United Front for Democracy Against Dictatorship (UDD) will submit a pardon petition for Thaksin Shinawatra to the Office of His Majesty's Principal Private Secretary, Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thuagsuban said Wednesday.

And, if necessary, the government will use the military to handle any probable chaos on that day, Thai News Agency quoted Suthep, who is in charge of security affairs, as saying.

The UDD group, or the red-shirted people, have claimed that they have already gathered at least 5 million names of the Thai people -- the supporters of ousted former Prime Minister Thaksin, which will be used to support the pardon petition.

But, under the law, criminals can only petition for the royal amnesty after they have served time for a certain period and expressed repentance, while Thaksin has not served any time in prison, or admitted to any wrongdoing.

Moreover, according to the law, only his family members can petition for the royal pardon.

The government will prevent any movement, which will affect the nation's main institution (the monarchy), Suthep said. Suthep said the origin of any potential problem, which might occur during the submission date, is the red-shirted people themselves.

Many sections in the Thai society are increasingly worried about the red-shirted people's plan to submit the pardon petition for Thaksin. However, Prime Minister's Office Minister Sathit Wongnongtoey said the government would attempt to manage to avoid any probable conflict among the different groups in the Thai society.

The government will provide channels for the people with the different views to express their voice regarding this matter, he added.

[Plus]

I agree however with Hammered that it's just a game and don't see any prospect of Thaksin actually receiving a pardon.If he was serious he would do it it himself and that means admitting guilt.If the elite had any imagination or motivation other than a bone headed hatred of Thaksin it might conclude there was an interesting opportunity here but of course the Neanderthal tendency will prevail.

You mean they should support this "pardon" despite Thaskin showing absolutely no remorse whatsoever? Or you mean they would stubbornly reject it if he came forward with apologies?

>>>

It's not a request for "pardon". It's a petition to declare Thaksin a political victim and grant him victrory over his opponents.

[Samuian]

It's not a request for "pardon". It's a petition to declare Thaksin a political victim and grant him victrory over his opponents.

and a large part of his PR Campaign "How I fight anyone daring to oppose me - till the end of the days!"

Edited August 5, 2009 by Samuian

[jayboy]

I agree however with Hammered that it's just a game and don't see any prospect of Thaksin actually receiving a pardon.If he was serious he would do it it himself and that means admitting guilt.If the elite had any imagination or motivation other than a bone headed hatred of Thaksin it might conclude there was an interesting opportunity here but of course the Neanderthal tendency will prevail.

You mean they should support this "pardon" despite Thaskin showing absolutely no remorse whatsoever? Or you mean they would stubbornly reject it if he came forward with apologies?

Plus,

I think they should bargain cleverly and hard to establish a middle way between national reconciliation and as far as possible neutralising Thaksin as a future political force.I agree that Thaksin must accept a measure of guilt but not to the insane extent some of his more deranged haters suggest (see message to SRJ below).It probably entails some of his assets.From the elite's point of vieew it would mean grasping the initiative rather than just reacting to events.But as I said earlier I doubt whether they have the political savvy or cunning.

SRJ,

Do your own research.It's not as though you don't have the time.There's plenty of evidence out there to the effect that the government states it is just providing the public with the facts, including a similar comment directly from Abhisit.