If you guys want to change the outcome, go around and buy some votes, the way your boss does. That would be true democracy - NE style.

Thaksin was the one who started that, was he?

Your words, not mine. He didn't start it, but he had the funds to make it a weapon to completely distort democracy in the country, turning it into a virtual dictatorship. Which is why he is no longer here, lol.

Edited July 25, 200916 yr by LawnGnome

The results at the top of the page seem to show that people agree with this assessment. Abhisit has the support of 82% here.

82% of the farangs on Thai Visa means absolutely nothing!

Your assessment means even less than nothing.

If you dispute my "assesment" it proves that you are missing some batteries! Almost no farangs can vote.

Seems as a higher percentage of Farang are overtly concerned and angst towards Thai politics than Thai might be. Why is this...?? I know why, just wonder if anyone else does.

Education and culture. Educated Thais are concerned. I speak with them every day, and they dislike the conflict, and were quite happy that Abhisit is leading the country. Uneducated people, with limited access to information sources, are certainly not stupid, and take a very pragmatic attitude, which I respect. However, when confronted with extremes, they will most certainly do the right thing.

I remember when my housekeeper was home during Songkran, in the NE near the Cambodian border. She described how the villagers in her own community were known to support the red shirt movement, until they witnessed the Songkran violence perpetrated by those thugs. The next day any trace of red had disappeared from the village, and hasn't returned. That anecdote has real world resonance, and I believe shows that while the reds support is real, it is not as strong as the reds say it is.

If you guys want to change the outcome, go around and buy some votes, the way your boss does. That would be true democracy - NE style.

Thaksin was the one who started that, was he?

Your words, not mine. He didn't start it, but he had the funds to make it a weapon to completely distort democracy in the country, turning it into a virtual dictatorship. Which is why he is no longer here, lol.

It is how things are done in Thailand by both sides. Anyone who thinks otherwise and is pointing fingers, does not have a clue.

I'll let Ulysses continue his little one liners and innuendo, devoid of any real substance, reason, or logic. It seems he's trying to shine a turd, and I wish him well. I'll let the poll results serve as the ultimate rebuke of his viewpoint. I know those numbers stick in his throat like a fish bone, and that makes me smile.

If you guys want to change the outcome, go around and buy some votes, the way your boss does. That would be true democracy - NE style.

Thaksin was the one who started that, was he?

Your words, not mine. He didn't start it, but he had the funds to make it a weapon to completely distort democracy in the country, turning it into a virtual dictatorship. Which is why he is no longer here, lol.

dictatorship ???

Thailand is STILL under a dictatorship, the old one, of the elite ruling over the poor, using the military when the must, they just more subtle than Thaksin.

all the Thaksin hating is just a smokescreen to cover the real power struggle going on.

If you guys want to change the outcome, go around and buy some votes, the way your boss does. That would be true democracy - NE style.

Thaksin was the one who started that, was he?

Your words, not mine. He didn't start it, but he had the funds to make it a weapon to completely distort democracy in the country, turning it into a virtual dictatorship. Which is why he is no longer here, lol.

dictatorship ???

Thailand is STILL under a dictatorship, the old one, of the elite ruling over the poor, using the military when the must, they just more subtle than Thaksin.

all the Thaksin hating is just a smokescreen to cover the real power struggle going on.

I take it that the military elected all the MP's that are currently serving in Parliament?

I take it that the military elected all the MP's that are currently serving in Parliament?

thats one way of saying it

I take it that the military elected all the MP's that are currently serving in Parliament?

thats one way of saying it

What would the other way be, I wonder, lol.

Even if Thailand was better off under Thaksin, it doesn't mean a blind eye should be turned on his wrongdoings. Generations of that kind of thinking is what has gotten Thailand in the mess it's in today.

I essentially agree with cdnvic, but also feel that Thaksin should never have been forced from office illegally and that Thailand would be much better off if it had never happened. Yes he did things wrong, but name a Thai Prime Minister who hasn't.

Another thing is that, the yellow shirts and the red shirts are both hurting the country and neither one is much better than the other. Educated and uneducated Thais from certain parts of the country support Abhisit and other educated and uneducated Thais from elsewhere want to bring back Thaksin. It depends on who they think is going to do something for them.

I, personally, rather keep Abhisit in office because it seems the easiest way to keep things going in a positive direction during a very bad time, but I can't blame the reds for feeling that they were robbed by an illegal military coup and wanting to get rid of him.

However it is not up to me or any farang zealots on either side to decide. This is still a Democracy and only the Thai people have a vote that counts. Let's hope that they vote wisely.

Edited July 25, 200916 yr by Ulysses G.

I'll let the poll results serve as the ultimate rebuke of his viewpoint.

A poll of expats on the Internet. You just don't get it, do you?

I take it that the military elected all the MP's that are currently serving in Parliament?

thats one way of saying it

What would the other way be, I wonder, lol.

I think the little garden gnome is shit scared the common Thai people may get a little power under a Thaksin rule.

We can't have that can we? I think the little gnome is worried he may loose his fiefedom.

By the way, do you need to re-new your "permanent resident" visa? not very permanent is it

Even if Thailand was better off under Thaksin, it doesn't mean a blind eye should be turned on his wrongdoings. Generations of that kind of thinking is what has gotten Thailand in the mess it's in today.

I essentially agree with cdnvic, but also feel that Thaksin should never have been forced from office illegally and that Thailand would be much better off if it had never happened. Yes he did things wrong, but name a Thai Prime Minister who hasn't.

Another thing is that, the yellow shirts and the red shirts are both hurting the country and neither one is much better than the other. Educated and uneducated Thais from certain parts of the country support Abhisit and other educated and uneducated Thais from elsewhere want to bring back Thaksin. It depends on who they think is going to do something for them.

I, personally, rather keep Abhisit in office because it seems the easiest way to keep things going in a positive direction during a very bad time, but I can't blame the reds for feeling that they were robbed by an illegal military coup and wanting to get rid of him.

However it is not up to me or any farang zealots on either side to decide. This is still a Democracy and only the Thai people have a vote that counts. Let's hope that they vote wisely.

See? Was that so hard?

I take it that the military elected all the MP's that are currently serving in Parliament?

thats one way of saying it

What would the other way be, I wonder, lol.

407 posts and all of them anti Thaksin rhetoric.

Talk about paranoia

Coming from you of all people, I consider that high praise! And, as per your norm - completely inaccurate and libelous.

Edited July 25, 200916 yr by LawnGnome

Even if Thailand was better off under Thaksin, it doesn't mean a blind eye should be turned on his wrongdoings. Generations of that kind of thinking is what has gotten Thailand in the mess it's in today.

I essentially agree with cdnvic, but also feel that Thaksin should never have been forced from office illegally and that Thailand would be much better off if it had never happened. Yes he did things wrong, but name a Thai Prime Minister who hasn't.

Another thing is that, the yellow shirts and the red shirts are both hurting the country and neither one is much better than the other. Educated and uneducated Thais from certain parts of the country support Abhisit and other educated and uneducated Thais from elsewhere want to bring back Thaksin. It depends on who they think is going to do something for them.

I, personally, rather keep Abhisit in office because it seems the easiest way to keep things going in a positive direction during a very bad time, but I can't blame the reds for feeling that they were robbed by an illegal military coup and wanting to get rid of him.

However it is not up to me or any farang zealots on either side to decide. This is still a Democracy and only the Thai people have a vote that counts. Let's hope that they vote wisely.

See? Was that so hard?

Can you see anything beyond your own nose?

Thailand is STILL under a dictatorship, the old one, of the elite ruling over the poor, using the military when the must, they just more subtle than Thaksin.

BINGO! Nobody wants to grasp this reality. They're all engaged in this make-believe ideal of democracy, guised in something else.

There are, and probably always will be, influences of various sectors. Nothing is black and white in Thai politics. The poll question remains legitimate. Who should be the leader for Thailand? Frankly, the poll had nothing to do with Thaksin. He was brought in by others, who like to make everything about him, lol. People can feel free to disparage my viewpoint - im a big boy, and can accept whatever they can dish out. I do, however, respect the posters who spell our their beliefs and opinions rather than the typical "are you an idiot", types of responses.

One of the big problems in Thailand, even among the expat community is that differing viewpoints are looked down upon. I am guilty of this as everyone else. But when people spend time to explain their point of view (as U did after repeated prodding) it makes for an elevated level of discourse.

The thing is, that Thaksin would win handily if you bothered to put him on the list - the same problem that the powers that be have in a real election.

Agreed. There are a lot of Thaksin haters here but he would still win.

I would vote for him.

But when people spend time to explain their point of view (as U did after repeated prodding) it makes for an elevated level of discourse.

I was pointing out some GIANT holes in your arguments with the one-liners (like asserting that a poll of foreigners somehow affects the Thai political process).

Even though we both would prefer that the present Prime Minister continues in office, we have very different reasons.

There are, and probably always will be, influences of various sectors. Nothing is black and white in Thai politics. The poll question remains legitimate. Who should be the leader for Thailand? Frankly, the poll had nothing to do with Thaksin. He was brought in by others, who like to make everything about him, lol. People can feel free to disparage my viewpoint - im a big boy, and can accept whatever they can dish out. I do, however, respect the posters who spell our their beliefs and opinions rather than the typical "are you an idiot", types of responses.

One of the big problems in Thailand, even among the expat community is that differing viewpoints are looked down upon. I am guilty of this as everyone else. But when people spend time to explain their point of view (as U did after repeated prodding) it makes for an elevated level of discourse.

Actually, by writing " convicted fugitives from justice are not included" you did introduce a Thaksin element to the poll and showed your political persuasion.

There are, and probably always will be, influences of various sectors. Nothing is black and white in Thai politics. The poll question remains legitimate. Who should be the leader for Thailand? Frankly, the poll had nothing to do with Thaksin. He was brought in by others, who like to make everything about him, lol. People can feel free to disparage my viewpoint - im a big boy, and can accept whatever they can dish out. I do, however, respect the posters who spell our their beliefs and opinions rather than the typical "are you an idiot", types of responses.

One of the big problems in Thailand, even among the expat community is that differing viewpoints are looked down upon. I am guilty of this as everyone else. But when people spend time to explain their point of view (as U did after repeated prodding) it makes for an elevated level of discourse.

Actually, by writing " convicted fugitives from justice are not included" you did introduce a Thaksin element to the poll and showed your political persuasion.

No, i was just following the law of the land, which states that very thing. If the law was different, poll would have been worded differently.

There are, and probably always will be, influences of various sectors. Nothing is black and white in Thai politics. The poll question remains legitimate. Who should be the leader for Thailand? Frankly, the poll had nothing to do with Thaksin. He was brought in by others, who like to make everything about him, lol. People can feel free to disparage my viewpoint - im a big boy, and can accept whatever they can dish out. I do, however, respect the posters who spell our their beliefs and opinions rather than the typical "are you an idiot", types of responses.

One of the big problems in Thailand, even among the expat community is that differing viewpoints are looked down upon. I am guilty of this as everyone else. But when people spend time to explain their point of view (as U did after repeated prodding) it makes for an elevated level of discourse.

Actually, by writing " convicted fugitives from justice are not included" you did introduce a Thaksin element to the poll and showed your political persuasion.

No, i was just following the law of the land, which states that very thing. If the law was different, poll would have been worded differently.

Using your idealology of "just following the law of the land" Aung San Suu Kyi would be rightfully imprisoned then?

Why do you think past Thai Prime Ministers would/could not be considered to take the position again? If the statue of limitations had not run out on charges against several, the monkey house would look like a normal day at the government offices.

Using your idealology of "just following the law of the land" Aung San Suu Kyi would be rightfully imprisoned then?

So Gary, you truly believe that Thaksin is completely innocent and simply the victim of political persecution, like Aung San Suu Kyi?

Such comparisons are daft. No one, not even ardent Thaksin fans, argue that he is entirely innocent. What they will argue is that though he might not be innocent, neither are lots of other politicians/generals in Thailand. You would think that this would be cause for them to argue that justice be served to each and every one of them, including Thaksin, but bizarrely, they use other injusticies as a reason why Thaksin should also evade justice. Arse about face in my opinion.

Thailand is STILL under a dictatorship, the old one, of the elite ruling over the poor, using the military when the must, they just more subtle than Thaksin.

BINGO! Nobody wants to grasp this reality. They're all engaged in this make-believe ideal of democracy, guised in something else.

The Elite ruling over the poor!

Is there a single country in the world where this isn't true?

benjie; You are probably correct but I can think of several countries of the world where the the Elite rule over the poor, EXCEPT in isolated areas. Those areas and the population there of are pretty well left to their own devices. I do think using the term elite may be a poor choice of terminology, but that would probably depend on if your on the receiving or giving end.

Using your idealology of "just following the law of the land" Aung San Suu Kyi would be rightfully imprisoned then?

So Gary, you truly believe that Thaksin is completely innocent and simply the victim of political persecution, like Aung San Suu Kyi?

Such comparisons are daft. No one, not even ardent Thaksin fans, argue that he is entirely innocent. What they will argue is that though he might not be innocent, neither are lots of other politicians/generals in Thailand. You would think that this would be cause for them to argue that justice be served to each and every one of them, including Thaksin, but bizarrely, they use other injusticies as a reason why Thaksin should also evade justice. Arse about face in my opinion.

No, I don't believe there is any real comparison between Thaksin and Aung San Suu Kyi, I was trying to make a point about the LawnGnomes "law of the land" comment.

Thailand is STILL under a dictatorship, the old one, of the elite ruling over the poor, using the military when the must, they just more subtle than Thaksin.

BINGO! Nobody wants to grasp this reality. They're all engaged in this make-believe ideal of democracy, guised in something else.

The Elite ruling over the poor!

Is there a single country in the world where this isn't true?

Cuba?