เด้ง

[DavidHouston]

The following sentence is shown as an example in Lexitron for the word "เด้ง":

ข้าราชการคนใดทำตัวเป็นอุปสรรคย่อมจะถูกเด้งเข้ากรุเพื่อยุติบทบาทเสียชั่วคราว

I would like to pose a potential translation:

"Any official who becomes an obstacle will most likely find his activities temporarily curtailed."

Question:

1. What is the meaning of the expression "เข้ากรุ"? One meaning of "กรุ" in Lexitron is "underground hiding place; chamber; repository; hiding place". Does the full expression "เข้ากรุ" mean "to be shunted aside" or is there another meaning?

2. One of the meanings of "ถูกเด้ง" is "to be fired (from one's job)". Does the adverb "ชั่วคราว" refer to the period during which the official will be laid off or to the cessation of the activities?

3. Any ideas for a rendering of the Thai sentence which is more faithful to the original? Do I understand the meaning correctly?

Thank you.

Edited July 26, 2009 by DavidHouston

[agent69]

Have you seen a cartoon where someone is ejected by a spring loaded chair? that is probaly 'เด้ง' in this context. it's toung-in-cheek and short for 'กระเด้ง'. In this sentence, the person would not be fired because of the 'ชั่วคราว' word suggests that it's temporary. Yes, just lock him up somewhere temporarily so that he would not be influensive until whenever depending on the context.

[oldsparrow]

Any official who becomes an obstacle will most likely find himself removed to the inactive position."

******

เด้งเข้ากรุ = removed to the inactive position.

3 points

1. Moving, as เด้ง literally means "ิBounce". There is also the expression เช็คเด้ง, "Bouncing cheque", you can guess the meaning.

2. Inactive, position as กรุ means "Storage".

3. Punishment/conflict with higher authority, can be both just and unjust. However, only เด้ง not เด้งเข้ากรุ does not neccessarily mean that the person will be in entirely bad position.

******

Another related word, "ดอง" = Curtail of responsibility or no promotion for certain period of time "at the same position".

ie. He becomes the oldest director in the department as he had been ดอง for 10 years as section chief.

[tgeezer]

The following sentence is shown as an example in Lexitron for the word "เด้ง":

ข้าราชการคนใดทำตัวเป็นอุปสรรคย่อมจะถูกเด้งเข้ากรุเพื่อยุติบทบาทเสียชั่วคราว

I would like to pose a potential translation:

"Any official who becomes an obstacle will most likely find his activities temporarily curtailed."

Question:

1. What is the meaning of the expression "เข้ากรุ"? One meaning of "กรุ" in Lexitron is "underground hiding place; chamber; repository; hiding place". Does the full expression "เข้ากรุ" mean "to be shunted aside" or is there another meaning?

Its in the dictionary more or less what you say, government employees being assigned a position without duties as a punishment or before retirement.

[DavidHouston]

I see that the Matichon dictionary confirms Khun Tgeezer's and others' responses:

"เด้ง ก. . . . (สแลง) ย้ายไปอยู่ในตำแหน่งที่ด้อยกว่าเดิม เช่น เขาถูกเด้งเข้ากรุ"

" เด้ง (verb). . . (slang) to be demoted to an inferior position, for example, 'He was placed in bureaucratic purgatory'."

What do you think?

Thank you, Agent69, Old Sparrow, and Tgeezer, for your responses.

Edited July 27, 2009 by DavidHouston

[oldsparrow]

" เด้ง (verb). . . (slang) to be demoted to an inferior position, for example, 'He was placed in bureaucratic purgatory'."

ํYes, just FYI, the Thai gov. officer system doesn't demote personal rank (except in extreme case that I can't not think of real sample at the moment). ie. the colonel can be removed to bad position but he still is Colonel. The Departmental DG can be moved to be advisor but at the same grade etc.

So, the inferior position in this explanation generally mean position of the same rank but the bad one but not the rank demotion.

[DavidHouston]

" เด้ง (verb). . . (slang) to be demoted to an inferior position, for example, 'He was placed in bureaucratic purgatory'."

ํYes, just FYI, the Thai gov. officer system doesn't demote personal rank (except in extreme case that I can't not think of real sample at the moment). ie. the colonel can be removed to bad position but he still is Colonel. The Departmental DG can be moved to be advisor but at the same grade etc.

So, the inferior position in this explanation generally mean position of the same rank but the bad one but not the rank demotion.

Or, perhaps, a police colonel can be stripped of his passports and elected position, but not his police rank.

[oldsparrow]

Yes, yes, you see, even in such case

[aanon]

Yes, yes, you see, even in such case

But he does get a new rank, นทช., for his collection. Or is that just in the press?

[oldsparrow]

นทช. Thaksin...

Technically it's just the media expression,

็ำHe has to really be in jail to get the title นทช.

ผู้ต้องคำพิพากษา / ผู้กระทำความผิด Offender sentenced by the court

ผู้ต้องหา = Offender (Arrested person who has been inform by the officer of his offence)

ผู้ต้องสงสัย = Suspect (Person under investigation befor the arrest)

You can used two different words to specify different kind of fugitives

ผู้ต้องหาหลบหนี = Fugitive who fled the arrest warrant and/or has not been sentenced by the court yet

ผู้กระทำความผิดหลบหนี = Fugitive who has been sentenced by the court

Edited July 28, 2009 by oldsparrow

[DavidHouston]

Might it be:

ผู้ร้ายข้ามแดน - a fugitive who crosses international borders ?

[oldsparrow]

The word ผู้ร้ายข้ามแดน is use exclusively in the case of extradition, ส่งตัวผู้ร้ายข้ามแดน

The word ข้ามแดน is used passively with the criminal. The fugitive does not ข้ามแดน by himself.

The word ผู้ร้าย in itself is unofficial (at present) except in certain word as mentioned.

Related words:

...ข้ามชาติ

ie. อาชญากรรมข้ามชาติ

Or บริษัทข้ามชาติ = Multi national cooperation

...ระหว่างประเทศ

องค์กรระหว่างประเทศ = International organisation

In the case of organisation, there seems to be no rigid rule to decide the use of ข้ามชาติ and ระหว่างประเทศ

MNC may ้has foreign branch that operate in many countries, inter. or. has the same yet it is not common to call the UN องค์กรข้ามชาติ

[agent69]

นทช. Thaksin...

We do not say the Dark Lord's name!

[bannork]

******

Another related word, "ดอง" = Curtail of responsibility or no promotion for certain period of time "at the same position".

ie. He becomes the oldest director in the department as he had been ดอง for 10 years as section chief.

The same ดอง as in pickled. I like that image, left on the shelf, not promoted, a 'pickled position'!

[oldsparrow]

You can used the word เด็กดอง to refer to person who has been ดอง

****

This make me think of another word: เด็กโค่ง / เด็กโข่ง

= Person in certain position / state who do lesser thing / being in lesser position than what he supposed to do / be.

Literally it means person who simple has big body (grown up). So it has the sense of having less quality to match the size. It can be used in broader situation also:

ie. What a เด็กโค่ง! He has studied piano for 10 years but he just passed the grade 3.

[Richard W]

Or, perhaps, a police colonel can be stripped of his passports and elected position, but not his police rank.

็I think you need a conviction for that, and it has been done.

[Johpa]

So just what is an "inactive position"? Is it considered better or worse than being relocated to a remote province?

[oldsparrow]

So just what is an "inactive position"? Is it considered better or worse than being relocated to a remote province?

It depends on the practical gap between two positions. For DG with Departmental folio, the Inspector of the Minister is a เด้ง although both are of level 10.

Remote province is not always the bad deal, some Customs or Police officers really love remote post.

[meadish_sweetball]

some Customs or Police officers really love remote post.