Golf Courses Hard Hit By Slump

[churchill]

Around 200 golf courses nationwide, especially those in the provinces, are sometimes deserted as foreign tourists, their major customers, have almost disappeared since the economic recession began last year.

These courses are now pinning their hopes on the local market, and a price war seems the only effective marketing strategy to woo local golfers amid the economic slowdown.

Chartchai Veerasinthop, general manager of Lakewood Country Club Co, said that typically more than half of golf course customers are international tourists such as Japanese, Koreans and Europeans. Since the end of 2008, most have suspended their golfing travel because of the global crisis and, in some cases, concerns about Thai political problems. continued

-- Bangkok Post 27/07/09http://www.bangkokpost.com/business/economics/21016/golf-courses-hard-hit-by-slump

[PastEgo]

as my ex used to sex

golf is for men who do not have a sex life

needless to say i never played golf in my life

[PattayaParent]

She was only saying that to keep you away from all those cute caddies.

[DP25]

as my ex used to sex

golf is for men who do not have a sex life

needless to say i never played golf in my life

The two sometimes go together.

[duchovny]

Global economic downturn my ass.

Thailand's tourism associated problems are mainly from their own stupidity and ignorance.

Did they really think the millions of people who were inconvenienced by the yellow/red shirts in Dec 08 and on other occasions would return? There are other tourist destinations, not that the arrogant Thais know that.

On top of that you have the bad attitude of the Thais now. LOS it aint.

sum num naa, it's not gonna get any better. Now that those tourists that used to come to Thailand out of habit have discovered other venues, such as Vietnam, Cambodia, Malaysia and Indonesia, they probably wont be too bothered about not going back to Thailand.

[thaihome]

Global economic downturn my ass.

Thailand's tourism associated problems are mainly from their own stupidity and ignorance.

Did they really think the millions of people who were inconvenienced by the yellow/red shirts in Dec 08 and on other occasions would return? There are other tourist destinations, not that the arrogant Thais know that.

On top of that you have the bad attitude of the Thais now. LOS it aint.

sum num naa, it's not gonna get any better. Now that those tourists that used to come to Thailand out of habit have discovered other venues, such as Vietnam, Cambodia, Malaysia and Indonesia, they probably wont be too bothered about not going back to Thailand.

Just a bit bitter aren’t we? Only time will tell if the Thai tourism industries recovers as the world economy does. Personally I suspect it will. All the places you mention are very nice, but at the end of the day, they just aren’t the same as a Thailand.

There are some real good deals in the tourist area golf courses. We played Phoenix a few weeks ago on a Saturday and it was 1,650 baht all in. Compared to the listed price of what? 3,400 I think. Was fairly busy, but not crowded by any means. I saw a sign that they had sports day every weekday at 750 I think.

TH

[p_brownstone]

I don't think it's just Tourists who are not golfing these days.

I play regularly at 2 private Clubs in Bangkok where most of the players are Thai and I would estimate that the number of players is down by around 20% . It's not a financial consideration per se - Green Fees at one Course are Baht 50.- (!) ) but I think that in the current Economic climate many senior Thai staff, and Company owners in particular, simply cannot afford to take the time away from work as they used to.

Patrick

[Maxidad]

Considering that some courses here in Phuket charge 5-6,000 baht per round, it is no wonder they have no players. This is one of the highest prices I have seen in the world and is "Utterly" ridiculous. The sooner these companies realise that people are not stupid and charge a realistic fee, the sooner they will see customers come back.

I spoke to one of the pro's down here recently who took 80 guests to a course that charges around 3,000 baht per head, + caddie fee, + caddie tip, + food and drinks after the game and this pro was not given a complimentary round, which is common place in the industry.

I don't play golf in Phuket any more, it's just too expensive and drive to Hua Hin, when I can, to get a very enjoyable round in at one of the very reasonably priced courses up there.

The market for golfers in Phuket has changed and the owners of the courses have to rethink their strategies if they want to survive.

[thaihome]

I have to agree. I play at a private club in Bangkok, also mostly Thai, and it is noticeably down in the afternoon. All the early times are gone as usual, but you can pretty much walk on after noon, which last year was impossible to do.

TH

[yantzen]

Koh Samui is also very expensive. People with plenty of time are retired and they don't have the money! So, special prices for residents? Better fifty persons how pay 50% than no players!

[gmac]

Koh Samui is also very expensive. People with plenty of time are retired and they don't have the money! So, special prices for residents? Better fifty persons how pay 50% than no players!

No,no this is Thailand if only half the customers need to double the price!!

[Fore Man]

I was also under the impression that during the low season, particularly this low season, prices had tumbled....but was sadly mistaken. I attempted to book a tee time at Northern ______ Golf Resort in Chiang Mai Province a few weeks ago. Five area golf courses have agreed to charge a low season rate of THB 800 plus caddy fee (which varies from course to course, but never more than THB 250). Northern ______ was one of the courses advertising the special rate. When my Thai wife called, she was told that '"the THB 800 greens fee is not correct, and if your farang husband wants to play here, the lowest price will be THB 1,050 plus caddy fee". This immediate unwillingness to offer the rate that is being advertised around the province at participating courses surprised me. With the plummeting level of tourism coupled with the already dismal Thai economy, one would have to assume that any golf course--particularly one located far outside of town--would not brazenly turn away business. Yes, it's only THB 250 difference involved in this example, but what I believe we experienced was a case of an employee who was not well-briefed on rates in effect and who was not willing to stick her cute little nose out to save me that THB 250. When we asked to speak to a manager, there was none handy to talk to us. It will be a cold day in Hades before I attempt to play there again.

Edited August 2, 2009 by Fore Man

[ucantbeserious]

I hope all those courses go broke and the owners are reduced to driving toyotas.

as i said elsewhere,

golf in thailand is very expensive, a blatant rip-off, money for jam for the owners.

why are there no real deep discounts?

because, as with many hotels/resorts, they really don't need to to cover costs.

just one full green fee (or 3000 baht a night room) pays for a very large part of daily expenses/wages.

one green fee = almost 1 weeks wages for an employee,

compared to in the west it would pay for only a few hours of the employees time.

its simply too easy for them to stay solvent,

because we are paying 5 times more than we should!!

a good example i have seen is the santiburi on samui,

a 4000 baht green fee, each time i looked at it (no way i was paying to play) it was empty, maybe i saw 4 people playing and 4 people in the restaurant.

the owner has deep pockets and say 4 green fees a day pays for a a lot of wages,

so don't expect discounts there.

i found it weird that after my other post, many folks seemed unable to understand simple business income - expenditure = profit.

to say golf is cheap in thailand because it costs 10 times more in japan is silly.

you can't play golf in thailand in japan!

caddies are such a scam also, apart from being mostly useless as real caddies,

its a lot of money for a bag dragger.

wouldn't it be nice to take your own caddy,

a lady you have trained to understand the game and got to know as a friend,

550 baht for a days work is very good money.

or even take your daily girlfriend (not a great caddy, but a lot of fun i would think),

and for less money........

i notice regulars are playing less also, income from investments is way down, suddenly a days golf looks much more expensive!!

unfortunately, they will all survive.....

because we are paying FAR TOO MUCH!!!!

[slipperx]

I have no sympathy. In Phuket I was a member of three courses and only one would I recommend now which is the Blue Canyon Course where service is great, two championship quality courses well maintained and excellent facilities including a sauna and large jaccuzzis for members & players. Contrast Loch Plam where when I joined green fees were free for members and maintenance 8k per year. Now it costs me 500 baht to pay and will probably go up another hundred baht this year as it has every year in the last three years. So 500 baht plus 250 baht caddie fee plus caddie tip usually 4-500 baht makes it around 1500 baht including a couple of overpriced bottles of water for a round - and I am a member. Country club decided to raise its maintenance to 18k per year - double in fact and transfer fees are 50k if you want to sell your membership - thats just for changing the name. Add to that massively increased food and drinks costs and massively decresed maintenance carried out. It's hardly surpising that the courses have no players. Full green fees are between 4-6k per round - it's madness. I hope they go broke too and someone with a bit more sense and a little less greed take over.

[femi fan]

Good topic.

Here in chiang mai five courses banded together and offered green fees of 800 baht until the end of june for all residents in the north of thailand, ie farang and thai alike, but not tourists (one post has touched on this). I'm a member of mae jo and that makes playing golf affordable year round. However with this great deal being offered me and my playing partners thoroughly enjoyed playing the royal, the highlands, and the alpine (the old chiang mai-lamphun course where we used to be members until it got horribly corportatised from a buy-out). Even with these prices the courses still remained remarkably empty, but there again it's rainy/low season.

At the end of june four of the courses stopped this promotion. The only one to continue is the highlands, and this green fee remains until end of october. Coincidentally it is the only course with a farang manager. Since july this course has been quite busy every time we have played there, and kudos to them, never mind that it's an outstanding course to play our wonderful game on. The other courses have gone back to their horrifically expensive fees. Although to be fair to mae jo, they have a pretty good new deal going for non-members.

The owners are obviously wealthy beyond any need to worry about dropped numbers, at least for now.

Okay, that's now.

And this is before...

Until two years ago we were members of chiang mai-lamphun golf club. Then they got bought out as i said. But before that in the high season from about late december until march the course had huge numbers of south koreans playing there. We had no problem wtih this, because the rest of the year it was often just us playing and one or two other groups. But three or four years ago the koreans dried up. We heard it was because the stupid thai authorities clamped down on korean golf/tour guides. One year later, hardly any of this massive crowd of customers from korea were coming any more. This was of course before the global downturn. On this occasion, not the golf course owners' fault.

Apart from mae jo, to play at the other major courses in chiang mai meant paying massive fees for membership or prohibitively high green fees all the time all year. No sports days, no deals, nothing. Due to the relative complete lack of courses compared to bangkok or near pattaya, prices remain so high. Yet back in 2002 when i moved up to chiang mai, i recall the royal charging about 4 or 500 baht for the green fee. It was about this time that thailand's secret about magnificent golfing being available over here started to really bring in the tourists.

Prices nearly quadrupled overnight. No deals for those living here, no sports days, nothing. Lump it or leave it.

Greed has a big part to play in all of this. And so does the rich thai man's mentality towards business. Due to their personal greed and stubbornness, less golfers can play golf on the courses up here, and more of their caddies are unable to earn any kind of decent income, not to mention all the other staff working in the clubhouse over foods and drinks.

It is quite incomprehensible to me why they can't have sport's days like in bangkok courses, or come up with some kind of deal for locals who live in thailand. Only rich thais and rich farang businessmen can play at all these courses. It is even more incomprehensible in today's economic climate.

I applaud the highlands up here for extending their deal, and it is of course presumably nothing to do with their farang manager!! I wonder if they will decide to offer a sport's day to people who live in thailand in the near future? Even if it's just in the low season.

Thailand is such a great country in so many ways, but unfortunately i've never managed to escape my distaste for the vast majority of extremely wealthy thai men. And unfortunately in golf they will always be around.

I just wonder if belatedly they will let go of their ridiculous stubbornness in order to get some punters back on their courses. Or are these people just simply bottomless pitts of cash??

[dclaryjr]

Prices nearly quadrupled overnight. No deals for those living here, no sports days, nothing. Lump it or leave it.

Ouch! I played Lamphun on a trip in 2001 and loved it.

Can anyone tell me how prices are doing in the KhoaYai/Pakchong area courses? I'll be retiring in the area and playing a lot of golf is part of the plan...but I ain't rich!!

[howzat]

Prices nearly quadrupled overnight. No deals for those living here, no sports days, nothing. Lump it or leave it.

Ouch! I played Lamphun on a trip in 2001 and loved it.

Can anyone tell me how prices are doing in the KhoaYai/Pakchong area courses? I'll be retiring in the area and playing a lot of golf is part of the plan...but I ain't rich!!

Just come back from Sir james Country Club. Like it very much. 27 holes and beautiful scenery. Challanging but not too difficult and not too expensive.

[Abrak]

caddies are such a scam also, apart from being mostly useless as real caddies,

its a lot of money for a bag dragger.

wouldn't it be nice to take your own caddy,

a lady you have trained to understand the game and got to know as a friend,

550 baht for a days work is very good money.

or even take your daily girlfriend (not a great caddy, but a lot of fun i would think),

and for less money........

Do tell me how well this concept goes down. Seeing how your 'daily GF', real GF or even just a 'gig' responds to your offer of lugging your golf clubs round in the heat for over 4 hours, for payment of 500 baht.

If you manage to convince her this is a serious suggestion and you escape unhurt from her response, I would be quite surprised.

I find most GFs have next to no interest on being on a golf course. I did have one who turned up on the 1st tee wearing only a dressing gown but this was only to retrieve a watch left rather carelessly by another girl in my home. (It wasnt that she actually wanted the watch she simply wished to smash it into a thousand pieces and then return it.)

[Bagwan]

Green Valley at Ban Chang is now high on my list of rip off places; although I am a member there it is cheaper for me to play at the Navy complex at Sattahip. At Navy there are 4 separate 9's, and none of them are particularly easy.

My stepson was on an extended stay with us and I brought him along for a day out in the fresh air until GV wanted to charge 400 baht even though he wasn't riding on the cart and would stay on the cart track so that it could not be said that he was responsible for wear and tear on the course. I told the manager that if that was the case our party would not be staying on for a meal and drinks when we had finished playing. Furthermore our party would make that a permanent arrangement and I suggested that he do the sums on that. The latest move is to charge 70 baht for a can of Singha. For that price I want a comely lass sitting either side of me telling me what a sexy lor man I am and some decent music.

One of the big bugbears of GV is the number of Korean ladies playing 5 balls at a snails pace. They absolutely refuse to let anybody play through so that a 5 hour round is the norm. Complaints to the management fall on deaf ears. IMO all of the municipal courses in the UK that I have played on offer a much more pleasant experience.

[Rinrada]

Dont play the game but regulary visit "my local"at Highlands Golf Club in the Mai for a couple of Heinees ...most nights.

Beautiful Views from the bar and as the sun goes down over the mountains......WOW......

Next vist will increase my bar order and hopefully do my bit to help sustain the place.......truly... Amazing Thailand.

[richard_smith237]

I must be going to the wrong courses…

In and around bkk everywhere still seems so busy, especially Fri, Sat and Sun.

I just can’t find a quiet reasonably priced course within 45mins of central Bangkok that is not over crowded.

Additionally: I’m starting to get quite fed up with the starters / course policy of consistently over loading the course and teeing people off on the 1st and 10th so that on our way round we have a 20+ minute wait. Can't tee times just be stuck to?

Although out of Bangkok (Hua Hin, Kanchanburi, Khao Yai) I’ve noticed the prices come way down and it’s a pleasure to play on a quiet course on the weekdays.

Has anyone played a Sub B1000 green fee for a quiet course at the weekend (within 45 mins of central bkk) ?

One pointer: A friend played Windmills for 50% discount with 2 Lipo V bottle caps. Pinehurst (or President, can’t quite remember) has a 2 for B1450 deal with Bank of Ayuttaya Platinum and Muang Keaw is free with a CitiBank Platinum card.

I’ve recently discovered that it’s often an advantage to ask (or have a Thai ask on your behalf) what promotions are available as this information is never forthcoming without inquisition.

[Bagwan]

I had the misfortune to play Rayong Green Valley today. The greens were in an atrocious condition and the tees not much better. I assume that all the greenkeeping staff are working on the new course being built, whimsically called Whispering Oaks or something like that, which opens in the New Year. Given the Thai penchant for missing target timescales (Cobra Swamp, the Express Rail Link) I am not sure which New Year that might be.

We waited on every shot thanks to a 5 ball of Thai phu yais who moved at a snail's pace without any thought of other players. It seems the owners want to make the place exclusive to Thais, well they can have it. We walked off after 12 holes.

[Toosetinmyways]

I had the misfortune to play Rayong Green Valley today. The greens were in an atrocious condition and the tees not much better. I assume that all the greenkeeping staff are working on the new course being built, whimsically called Whispering Oaks or something like that, which opens in the New Year. Given the Thai penchant for missing target timescales (Cobra Swamp, the Express Rail Link) I am not sure which New Year that might be.

We waited on every shot thanks to a 5 ball of Thai phu yais who moved at a snail's pace without any thought of other players. It seems the owners want to make the place exclusive to Thais, well they can have it. We walked off after 12 holes.

Sorry but played it same day as you. Greens are not as good as they used to be, but still held a ball and putted true. Perhaps a few lessons are in order. Rayong Green Valley have a strict policy regarding 5 balls must use carts

[Marvo]

People here are are including the words "cheap" and "Hua Hin" in the same posts which does niggle me a little.

Unfortunately a poster helpfully classifying some thing as "cheap" is a totally arbitrary measurement as "cheap" and "expensive" is all relative and different for everybody. After moving out of the "low" season, green fees will range between 2,000 and 3,500 baht. So with caddie + tip + water, the average will be 3,000 baht+ for your morning out on the golf course.

OK, that's cheap compared to what some courses in Phuket are trying to extort (still, a totally unrealistic comparison) but even £60 sterling / $90 US / €60+ is a ludicrous amount to pay for golf in a country where overheads are a fraction of western equivalents.

Play 3 times a week and you're forking out nearly £10,000 / $15,000 a year.

What the answer is I don't know, but I do know that I don't pursue my passion on the golf course anywhere near as often as I desire, down to the fact that I will not allow myself to be ripped off in such a fashion and, though having worked hard all my life, I'm not rich.

Rant over

[bolt]

What do you want from a game of golf?

Some guys just want to play 18 holes, they don’t really care the condition, or the course, they don't even count the score!!

they just want to pass the time, get out of the house.

I like to play good quality courses MOST of the time, I can have some fun from time to time but playing good golf on good courses, is a reward for all my hard work I'm doing in life.

My friend plays down at century chonburi / ban chang? I think that’s the name, green fee is 350 (ish) plus caddie not sure how much but it’s low cost, however the condition he tells me is not as good as green valley, I said why not play green valley?

If he buys a green valley membership say 100,000 after the initial outlay then it would work out only 100 baht more to play than century.i know 100,000 is not small money but he can resell after 2,3,4,5,6, up to him?

But some people don’t want to listen!!

I told him if he plays once a week every week, which he does anyway then he should look at Rayong green valley or even Siam, I’m a member at both, and if you crunch the numbers, play between 60-75 games per year, I would say Siam is a better deal all in.

Siam you pay 25,000 baht for 1 year green fee, then 280 for caddie every game=

60 games/caddie fee =15,000 + 25,000 =40,000 for 1 year( next year maybe 5,000 more for green fee,)

Rayong green Valley members pay 450 green fee 200 caddie (I think ish) so

60 x 650=39,000

Compare Rayong green valley to Siam, you can play Siam 1,2,3,4,5 times per week!!

Less journey time! More stop off’s if you like that sort of thing, MANY MANY guest's complain that Siam makes them take a cart, and it must stay on the cart path, i like that rule as (long as i can walk) it keeps the course in the best possible shape, i think(hope) Siam will be less crowded during the high season, as it has such a bad reputation!!

Yes playing the same course can be boring, but some guys play the same course because it’s cheaper!!!.

You have to put up with some stuff from the starter at Siam but most of the other courses have similar issues with something.

thats my RANT for today!!

[Checker]

Played 18 holes last week and the total cost was 500 Baht. The course which is only 6 Kilometers from downtown was in fantastic condition and the greens true. We were not held up at any stage with 5 ball groups and there was nobody up our arse. Did not need to use a caddy as we were able to pull our own bags. It was also nice to be able to head to the clubhouse after the game for a few beers.

Ahhh it is nice to be back in Perth, Australia . . . . . .

[Losangels]

. It was also nice to be able to head to the clubhouse after the game for a few beers.

Ahhh it is nice to be back in Perth, Australia . . . . . .

What was the price of a few beers? I bet it was more than 500 Bahts.

[bolt]

and there was nobody up our arse.

Ahhh it is nice to be back in Perth, Australia . . . . . .

I think it would be really uncomfortable playing golf and having ANYBODY up your arse.

But being a member at Siam means we never have that problem.

[metisdead]

Out our way, for August and September they reduced the green fee to 560B on weekdays, that was at Thanont Golf View. Beginning of October they've gone back to regular rates of non sport days being 760B green fee. While they had the reduced green fee, the course was empty. And now in October, it is still empty on week day. Was out there on Friday 3rd, in the space of 1 hour, 3 groups teed off, 1 group was a 6 ball. Nobody came up behind us except a 2 ball in carts who were hole jumpers.

[Bagwan]

If he buys a green valley membership say 100,000 after the initial outlay then it would work out only 100 baht more to play than century.i know 100,000 is not small money but he can resell after 2,3,4,5,6, up to him?

But some people don’t want to listen!!

He can have my membership for 20K if he wants.